Folding Bikes - An Anti-Folding Bicycle Sentiment From The Netherlands Of All Places

I spotted this small online grumbling against the folding bike on trains-of all places-in the Netherlands. I used Google to translate parts of this Webpage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvO02VFD96g&feature=grec_index
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvO02VFD96g&feature=grec_index (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvO02VFD96g&feature=grec_index)


Front Against The Folding Bike

Founded on January 16, 2007

Administrator: Priscilla

"....Description: After an endless journey to finally step inside the train. You hope that somewhere a spot free. But sadly the whole train was full. You look for your salvation in a folding chair ...

BUT NO! There is a folding bike for! For several years, long travel bike defenseless people FORCED to stand as a BIKE seats takes. And the worst is that the owner can sit and the bike no ticket required to pay .... ... Do you recognize this phenomenon? Then join, because together we achieve more ....."-http://fronttegendevouwfiets.hyves.nl/ (http://fronttegendevouwfiets.hyves.nl/)

I read and watch this and feel rather dejected about this negative attitude might be adopted over here as public transit becomes more popular.....I see little sprouts of passenger discontent appearing even now.

I think you're taking it too seriously. :)

it isn't the folding bike that is the problem, its the riders inconsiderate attitude to other travellers. Just because you see yourself as an eco-warrior doesn't mean you can ignore or disrespect others.

Having said that, people do like a good moan, and with the internet you can get some horsepower behind your moan these days, but its still a moan.

That's what happens when people with different usage patterns compete over limited resources. Ski vs. snowboard, rc airplains vs helis, nomads vs farmers, cars vs bikes, swimmers vs boats.

"Old Europe" doesn't understand that 19th Century solutions (such as bikes & trains) don't work in the 21st Century! Our 'years ahead' culture dictates that bikes, which Americans ride to be 'fashionable', are to be carried to the starting point of the ride on top of, on the back of or in the trunk of your car!

Eliminating trains, as we are doing here in the U.S, would go along way toward bringing the folks in these foreign lands up-to-date.

"Old Europe" doesn't understand that 19th Century solutions (such as bikes & trains) don't work in the 21st Century! Our 'years ahead' culture dictates that bikes, which Americans ride to be 'fashionable', are to be carried to the starting point of the ride on top of, on the back of or in the trunk of your car!

Eliminating trains, as we are doing here in the U.S, would go along way toward bringing the folks in these foreign lands up-to-date.

Lol you are being ironic I take it?

lol you are being ironic i take it?

:thumb:

I think you're taking it too seriously. :)

I wish I did. Just recently I was looking-looking mind you-inside a new bus to get a feel on the best spots to place one of my folding bikes on this partiuclar new bus model. The bus driver wanted to know why I was looking inside the bus (this is a real paranoid area let me tell you). I told him honestly why I was doing so. He told me that all bikes belong on the from racks (including folding bikes). Mind you this is Southern California, not a place that is overrunned with folding bikes like the Netherlands. Go figure. Speaking for myself, I am becoming less likely to use buses even the lightrail trains when I am out riding the bike. With the anti bike backlash that is sure to happen most anywhere makes me more loathe to use "public" transit unless forced to.

That video and rant was posted in 2007,
I guess it didn't go anywhere :) This photo
was taken this year aboard an inter city
train in Holland:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6096/6346108321_909cc7de3d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/44332608@N03/6346108321/)
DUTCH POLICY (http://www.flickr.com/photos/44332608@N03/6346108321/) by 1nterceptor (http://www.flickr.com/people/44332608@N03/), on Flickr


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6226/6346859260_e19b403a4c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/44332608@N03/6346859260/)
PRIORITY (http://www.flickr.com/photos/44332608@N03/6346859260/) by 1nterceptor (http://www.flickr.com/people/44332608@N03/), on Flickr

He told me that all bikes belong on the from racks (including folding bikes).

Got to wonder if they'd even notice your covered Brompton coming on board, or just accept it as another rider-carried package.

Lou

I wish I did. Just recently I was looking-looking mind you-inside a new bus to get a feel on the best spots to place one of my folding bikes on this partiuclar new bus model. The bus driver wanted to know why I was looking inside the bus (this is a real paranoid area let me tell you). I told him honestly why I was doing so. He told me that all bikes belong on the from racks (including folding bikes). Mind you this is Southern California, not a place that is overrunned with folding bikes like the Netherlands. Go figure. Speaking for myself, I am becoming less likely to use buses even the lightrail trains when I am out riding the bike. With the anti bike backlash that is sure to happen most anywhere makes me more loathe to use "public" transit unless forced to.Don't take the driver's word as final; get the bus line's official policy and print it out, and if different from what the driver says, rub his nose in it. Take their name and complain to the line if they give you strife.

Got to wonder if they'd even notice your covered Brompton coming on board, or just accept it as another rider-carried package.

Lou

Unless it is "Bike To Work Day" (once a year), I always make a special point to carry a bag or slipcover to disguise the bike. I just make sure not to bag it where the driver might see the "naked" bike being tucked inside or a tire or pedal accidentally "peeks" out when I have to pass them to pay the fare.


Don't take the driver's word as final; get the bus line's official policy and print it out, and if different from what the driver says, rub his nose in it. Take their name and complain to the line if they give you strife.

I agree. But the thing that concerned me was the above incident on my previous post was this happened at early in the evening in the dark. It is one thing being right (you may bring a fold up bike on board buses anytime (http://www.metro.net/around/bikes/bikes-metro/)-MTA's rules not mine.) And quite another still being refused access.

"Trains
If you have a folding bike, make sure it is properly folded.
Buses
Folding bike can be taken on the bus. Make sure the bike is properly folded...."-http://www.metro.net/around/bikes/bikes-metro/ (http://www.metro.net/around/bikes/bikes-metro/)

One more thing about being right as far as access-at least around here. Bus drivers have been known to kick people off at whim. So I have been going back to "bikes or public transit" like is was when I last used bikes as serious transportation when I was younger the last year or so. I really prefer to use the bikes over all other options and use public transit only if I am forced to whether or not one of the bikes are with me. I rather drive a private car-and one of the bikes inside the car with me-if possible when given a choice over using buses and trains thus dropping public transit option to the last choice on my list. To be fair, I have met many great fellow passengers and bus drivers over the years when I brought one of the folders on board with me. But I cannot help but feel that things are rapidly changing as more people crowd on board everything and the cyclist with the bike taking up coveted space is the ultimate loser.

My commute into work is 24.5 miles each way. I ride my full sized bike 2-3 days per week and use my folder and SEPTA regional rail the other days. Their policy on bikes is CLEARLY stated on all the train schedules on all the different lines (i.e. folding bikes any time, full sized bikes only during off peak times). Despite this, I have been accosted 5 differet times by SEPTA personnel trying to tell me I can't bring my folding bike onto the train. I carry a schedule with me at all times with the relevant section of the policy highlighted for them to see. One guy tried to tell me I had an "old" schedule (it was up to date and the policy hasn't changed in the 3 years I've been taking the train). He said he'd let me "slide this once". Gee, thanks! Another time this "crazy" female conductor screamed at me (from down the platform) that I couldn't bring the bike on board. I thought it was because I was hopping on board and had not yet folded it. So I stopped, kept one foot in the door, while the rest of me and the bike were on the platform while I folded it. I did this so she could see it was a folder (and so she would not try taking off early - it was 3 minutes before departure time but I didn't trust her after hearing that insane cackle). When I tried bringing the folded bike on the train, she again screamed at me. I yelled back "it's a folding bike" and got on the train. She then gets on the intercom and continues to berate me. She even says the train's not leaving until I get off. By now, I'm beet red (I embarrass easily) and have attracted the attention of everyone in the train station. I'm beginning to regret standing my ground and am fearing that she might call the cops. I'm projecting getting arrested and am wondering if any witnesses will support my version of events (I didn't trust that that lunatic would be truthful to the cops). Anyway, no cops were called and the doors of the train eventually shut and we departed. She later walked by me inspecting passes / collecting tickets. She never made eye contact with me nor said anything. Seeing her up close further "traumatized" me as she looked as crazy as she behaved (I'm being facetious). To think my tax dollars subsidize incompetent, unprofessional, unstable, ungrateful public servants like this only adds insult to injury. At least I didn't receive any glaring looks from fellow passengers. One woman sympathized with me stating "I can't believe she did that". On the bright side, it made me appreciate that much more how rewarding it is to commute the whole way by bike!

My commute into work is 24.5 miles each way. I ride my full sized bike 2-3 days per week and use my folder and SEPTA regional rail the other days. Their policy on bikes is CLEARLY stated on all the train schedules on all the different lines (i.e. folding bikes any time, full sized bikes only during off peak times). Despite this, I have been accosted 5 differet times by SEPTA personnel trying to tell me I can't bring my folding bike onto the train. I carry a schedule with me at all times with the relevant section of the policy highlighted for them to see. One guy tried to tell me I had an "old" schedule (it was up to date and the policy hasn't changed in the 3 years I've been taking the train). He said he'd let me "slide this once". Gee, thanks! Another time this "crazy" female conductor screamed at me (from down the platform) that I couldn't bring the bike on board. I thought it was because I was hopping on board and had not yet folded it. So I stopped, kept one foot in the door, while the rest of me and the bike were on the platform while I folded it. I did this so she could see it was a folder (and so she would not try taking off early - it was 3 minutes before departure time but I didn't trust her after hearing that insane cackle). When I tried bringing the folded bike on the train, she again screamed at me. I yelled back "it's a folding bike" and got on the train. She then gets on the intercom and continues to berate me. She even says the train's not leaving until I get off. By now, I'm beet red (I embarrass easily) and have attracted the attention of everyone in the train station. I'm beginning to regret standing my ground and am fearing that she might call the cops. I'm projecting getting arrested and am wondering if any witnesses will support my version of events (I didn't trust that that lunatic would be truthful to the cops). Anyway, no cops were called and the doors of the train eventually shut and we departed. She later walked by me inspecting passes / collecting tickets. She never made eye contact with me nor said anything. Seeing her up close further "traumatized" me as she looked as crazy as she behaved (I'm being facetious). To think my tax dollars subsidize incompetent, unprofessional, unstable, ungrateful public servants like this only adds insult to injury. At least I didn't receive any glaring looks from fellow passengers. One woman sympathized with me stating "I can't believe she did that". On the bright side, it made me appreciate that much more how rewarding it is to commute the whole way by bike!

You should have had her fired. The same can/should be said to the OP's bus problem. Unless the person is actually citing the official policy, employees should be corrected, and if their behavior is unprofessional, they should be terminated. In order to fix the problem, folks need to take the time to ensure that the organization addresses the problem.

..........Having said that, people do like a good moan, and with the internet you can get some horsepower behind your moan these days, but its still a moan.

I totally agree. :thumb:

I LIKE a good moan - especially a satisfying low one that repeats for some time, followed by a little satisfying whine/whimper. BUT not on a bicycle ;)

My commute into work is 24.5 miles each way. I ride my full sized bike 2-3 days per week and use my folder and SEPTA regional rail the other days. Their policy on bikes is CLEARLY stated on all the train schedules on all the different lines (i.e. folding bikes any time, full sized bikes only during off peak times). Despite this, I have been accosted 5 differet times by SEPTA personnel trying to tell me I can't bring my folding bike onto the train. I carry a schedule with me at all times with the relevant section of the policy highlighted for them to see. One guy tried to tell me I had an "old" schedule (it was up to date and the policy hasn't changed in the 3 years I've been taking the train). He said he'd let me "slide this once". Gee, thanks! Another time this "crazy" female conductor screamed at me (from down the platform) that I couldn't bring the bike on board. I thought it was because I was hopping on board and had not yet folded it. So I stopped, kept one foot in the door, while the rest of me and the bike were on the platform while I folded it. I did this so she could see it was a folder (and so she would not try taking off early - it was 3 minutes before departure time but I didn't trust her after hearing that insane cackle). When I tried bringing the folded bike on the train, she again screamed at me. I yelled back "it's a folding bike" and got on the train. She then gets on the intercom and continues to berate me. She even says the train's not leaving until I get off. By now, I'm beet red (I embarrass easily) and have attracted the attention of everyone in the train station. I'm beginning to regret standing my ground and am fearing that she might call the cops. I'm projecting getting arrested and am wondering if any witnesses will support my version of events (I didn't trust that that lunatic would be truthful to the cops). Anyway, no cops were called and the doors of the train eventually shut and we departed. She later walked by me inspecting passes / collecting tickets. She never made eye contact with me nor said anything. Seeing her up close further "traumatized" me as she looked as crazy as she behaved (I'm being facetious). To think my tax dollars subsidize incompetent, unprofessional, unstable, ungrateful public servants like this only adds insult to injury. At least I didn't receive any glaring looks from fellow passengers. One woman sympathized with me stating "I can't believe she did that". On the bright side, it made me appreciate that much more how rewarding it is to commute the whole way by bike!

No the Septa rules have not changed..... but I tend to take the express by mistake sometimes and I get a lot of stares as the train is normally full. I try to take the local's as they are not are not as crowded. I normally get off at Fern Roc and take the subway... it is not as bad there, they are used to people hauling bikes around.

You should have had her fired. The same can/should be said to the OP's bus problem. Unless the person is actually citing the official policy, employees should be corrected, and if their behavior is unprofessional, they should be terminated. In order to fix the problem, folks need to take the time to ensure that the organization addresses the problem.

In my ideal world, I agree with you 100%. In the real world, however, I doubt that would do anything but add insult to injury. No offense, but I've got better things to do with my time than go up against a "protected" individual in a big government beaurocracy. I don't know if you are young, naive, idealistic, or never went up against a big city beaurocracy but I can assure you, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than attempt that again. The fact that she'd pull this on the busiest platform in Philadelphia (30th street station) in front of 100s of passengers and dozens of coworkers should tell you something about her fear (or lack thereof) of reprimand. In fact, if her behavior were to become so egregious as to draw attention from her superiors, I suspect she'd likely be given a lateral if not an upward promotion, not be terminated (I know of what I speak ... I've seen it more than once). Were she to - gasp! - be terminated, I'm sure there'd be no shortage of ambulance chasing lawyers willing and able to get her a big payday. No, my friend, we taxpayers are, unfortunately, on the hook with the likes of her probably until the day she dies. I'll do my complaining at the ballot box, thank-you.

this is depressing to read, as i often hold mass transit as a promising solution forward. i've only lived in a big city with mass transit for a year in the past. i know you get kind of entrenched in this us vs them mentality with transit systems and their workers, since you have so many encounters with them and bound to have a few bad ones.

i have been really fortunate to encounter friendly, encouraging, curious transit workers in the less crowded suburbs i have lived in over the last few years. i guess, overall, the minimum i would want as a folding bike, mass transit rider, is for them to be friendly and welcoming on express routes and longer regional routes. i don't mind having to avoid local routes. i've found when i visit downtown boston, that i rarely feel like using the bus or subway, its just faster, less complicated on bike.

i wonder in a world where everybody rode a bike or folding bike, if we woudl see fewer local routes, as people would prefer biking, and more longer distance routes on transit systems. i also wonder what a subway system or bus system would look like that aimed to accommodate every rider having a folding bike. i guess i would have their seats raised a bit, and build enough room under the seats for folded bikes