Bicycle Mechanics - Threaded 3-speed Cogs

I have 3 different 3-speed hubs (2 Hercules and 1 SA AW) that all use threaded cogs and I'd like to replace them with 22t cogs which I bought off eBay recently. Short of 1) disassembling the hubs, 2) removing the installed cogs, 3) installing the new cogs and then 4) reassembling the hubs, is there another method to do this? I'd really like to eliminate steps 1 and 4 if possible.

Sounds abnormal .. No clue without seeing it in front of me..

might they be using Track cogs? same RH thread, as the BB..

I note: the new S3X uses screw on freewheels + splined fixie cogs
but its fixed, so you just unscrew it, with the freewheel remover for the cog chosen.
.
AW3 that I had 55 years ago and the new one I have now are both 3 spline,
the spline pattern became generic, shared by Shimano and Sachs, also.

The 2 cog freehub driver in a 3 speed that Sachs made for brompton, also is 3 spline.
they are held on with a snap-ring, not a screw on.


have you gone by a local shop with this? what did they say?

I can't vouch for the Hercules ones, but the only way to remove the sprocket from a threaded AW driver is to remove the driver and work out some way of holding it still while you unscrew the sprocket. If you try and unscrew the sprocket with the driver still in the hub, it just freewheels backwards. It's not that hard to do, all you need to remove is the right-hand axle nut, locknut, lock washer and bearing cone and the driver pulls straight out.

Perhaps the threaded driver is compatible with replacing it
with the regular[HSA 394] driver.
Or just buy the entire core. and fit it in the hubshell..

Perhaps the threaded driver is compatible with replacing it
with the regular[HSA 394] driver.
Or just buy the entire core. and fit it in the hubshell..


I'm pretty sure this is the most practical solution. IIRC, the Sturmey-Archer drivers are all interchangeable. I'd ask Sheldon... anyone got a Ouija board?

I'm pretty sure this is the most practical solution. IIRC, the Sturmey-Archer drivers are all interchangeable. I'd ask Sheldon... anyone got a Ouija board?


As far as I know, they are, I looked into replacing mine when I couldn't get the sprocket off it, and my LBS said a standard driver should fit. As they deal in old SA stuff, I trust their judgement. The sprocket came off eventually though, so I never found out for sure if they were right.

Sounds abnormal .. No clue without seeing it in front of me..
I note: the new S3X uses screw on freewheels + splined fixie cogs
but its fixed, so you just unscrew it, with the freewheel remover for the cog chosen.
.
AW3 that I had 55 years ago and the new one I have now are both 3 spline,
the spline pattern became generic, shared by Shimano and Sachs, also.

The 2 cog freehub driver in a 3 speed that Sachs made for brompton, also is 3 spline.
they are held on with a snap-ring, not a screw on.


have you gone by a local shop with this? what did they say?

I've attached a couple pictures of the hub in question. It's a November 1948 hub.

I have not taken it to the LBS at this point. I almost always do my own work so that's why I was asking how it can be done.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6055/6320397301_6eaeda9643_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320397301/)
Sturmey AW 48 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320397301/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6107/6320404435_40eeec7ca0_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320404435/)
Sturmey AW 48 11 Shell (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320404435/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6097/6320936192_4296a74523_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320936192/)
Sturmey AW Alloy 53 5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320936192/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6220/6320940150_1f572f7569_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320940150/)
Sturmey AW Alloy 53 5 Shell (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6320940150/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

I can't vouch for the Hercules ones, but the only way to remove the sprocket from a threaded AW driver is to remove the driver and work out some way of holding it still while you unscrew the sprocket. If you try and unscrew the sprocket with the driver still in the hub, it just freewheels backwards. It's not that hard to do, all you need to remove is the right-hand axle nut, locknut, lock washer and bearing cone and the driver pulls straight out.

I believe the Hercules hubs were essentially clones of the SA's, so it is probably the same to work on them. I know that parts I've swapped so far, shifters and indicator chains, work without any problem. I'll pull down the exploded diagram and see if I can tackle it. It does sound pretty easy, based on what you are saying.

Perhaps the threaded driver is compatible with replacing it
with the regular[HSA 394] driver.
Or just buy the entire core. and fit it in the hubshell..

That's another idea, but then what do I do with the 22t cogs I bought? ;) I actually like this idea, and am curious if the driver is interchangable with the Hercules hubs. If I can change the driver, then I can put on one of the 24t cogs I have sitting around the shop.

Sturmey's old-but-official factory documentation actually recommended back in the day to replace the K507 threaded driver with the HSA123 three-spline driver.

On the other hand, those old Sturmey threaded cogs are the same as (old and new) threaded track cogs. You can keep the threaded driver and just use new threaded track cogs.

Sturmey's old-but-official factory documentation actually recommended back in the day to replace the K507 threaded driver with the HSA123 three-spline driver.

On the other hand, those old Sturmey threaded cogs are the same as (old and new) threaded track cogs. You can keep the threaded driver and just use new threaded track cogs.

I think that was the original question- how do you remove the threaded cog once it's on the driver? Especially since it's been there for 63 years...

I think that was the original question- how do you remove the threaded cog once it's on the driver? Especially since it's been there for 63 years...

Jeff, you make a good point about it being in there as long as it has. Maybe the driver is the better idea. Fortunately, they aren't too expensive at less than $15 with shipping from Niagara Cycle.

how do you remove the threaded cog once it's on the driver?

Place the LH axle end in a vice and remove the RH locknut, washers cone lock washer and cone. Lift off the clutch spring and cap. Lift off the driver/cog.

Find or make a board or plate that fits snugly into the slots on the interior of the driver. Put this plate in your vice and slip the driver down over it. Turn the cog off with a chain whip.

Penetrating oil and heat are two traditional ways of loosening very old screwed fittings.

How did this work out for you? I've been looking for these threaded drivers. I have the other style driver. Could we work something out?

What is the manufacturing era of that hub?
they have used 3 spline drivers for over 50 years.


Oh i see the stamps.. I had B'day #1 in 48

What is the manufacturing era of that hub?
they have used 3 spline drivers for over 50 years.

From the pictures provided, one of the AW hubs is from 1948; the other is from 1953. The Hercules hub is not pictured.

From the pictures provided, one of the AW hubs is from 1948; the other is from 1953. The Hercules hub is not pictured.
The 53 clearly has a splined cog. We know somewhere between 48 and 53 it was changed.

The 53 clearly has a splined cog. We know somewhere between 48 and 53 it was changed.

1951 was Sturmey's first year for the three-spline driver. They switched their hubs that had previously used the threaded drivers/cogs and also their hubs that had used the 12 spline drivers/cogs.

How did this work out for you? I've been looking for these threaded drivers. I have the other style driver. Could we work something out?

I tried unthreading a driver last week, but was unsuccessful at getting it unthreaded. I'm going to try some heat next with a propane torch. I may be interested in a trade. If you want to PM me, maybe we can work something out.

What is the manufacturing era of that hub?
they have used 3 spline drivers for over 50 years.

All of the Hercules hubs I have seen use threaded drivers, with the hubs I've personally seen ranging between 1946 and 1954. For some reason it appears Hercules never used the 3-splined driver design, but instead threaded drivers for their entire production.