Advocacy & Safety - Thief Caught Stealing New CF Bike

This took place in NYC. You can see the video and read the story at the link.

http://jaysonelliot.com/blog/2011/11/10/i-caught-a-bicycle-thief/

Good Story!
Happy Ending! :)

I know that shop! Wow. Good job to spot the bike, stay with it, get someone from the shop to join in pursuit, finally get a cop and- best of all! getting the bike back! Nicely done!

Well done Fissile! You should get some sort of forum award for that.

I've dreamed about discovering someone caught in the act of stealing my bike (I've had 2 stolen over the years). It didn't end with handcuffs ....

I hope that bike shop showed it's appreciation one way or another.

Good to see someone doing the right thing and getting involve vice letting the detectives figure it out

Well done Fissile! You should get some sort of forum award for that. What makes you believe the linked story is about Fissile?

Good story! That should be felony theft, no?

I always wondered if people tried stuff like this very often.

Awesome !

The hidden story: The cop car hit a cyclist on the way back to the bike shop and never stopped. Evidently the $3000 recovery blinded the cop from people who actually ride their bikes.

The hidden story: The cop car hit a cyclist on the way back to the bike shop and never stopped. Evidently the $3000 recovery blinded the cop from people who actually ride their bikes.That bugged me too about the whole ordeal.

That's really awesome. There still are good Samaritans out there.

The hidden story: The cop car hit a cyclist on the way back to the bike shop and never stopped. Evidently the $3000 recovery blinded the cop from people who actually ride their bikes.

That bugged me, too.

The hidden story: The cop car hit a cyclist on the way back to the bike shop and never stopped. Evidently the $3000 recovery blinded the cop from people who actually ride their bikes.

The phrase 'Good deeds never go unpunished' springs to mind:(, in that, while the NYPD did their job in reference to bike shop theft:thumb:, they went right back to hating cyclists' when they were finished at the bike shop.:notamused:

Sad thing is, if this was a $300 bike that a guy needs to get around town and is his / her only means of transportation, cops wouldn't have blinked an eye.

$3000 carbon fibre machine though.... glad you could snag it back!

Sad thing is, if this was a $300 bike that a guy needs to get around town and is his / her only means of transportation, cops wouldn't have blinked an eye.

$3000 carbon fibre machine though.... glad you could snag it back!
Yet, if it were a $300 car I bet they'd be all over that too, cuz you know, cars are valuable and bikes are toys.

Sad thing is, if this was a $300 bike that a guy needs to get around town and is his / her only means of transportation, cops wouldn't have blinked an eye.

$3000 carbon fibre machine though.... glad you could snag it back!


Yet, if it were a $300 car I bet they'd be all over that too, cuz you know, cars are valuable and bikes are toys.

You'll really ought to cut back on the kool-aid. A $300 theft is a misdemeanor and a $3000 theft is a felony, so of course the latter is treated as more important than the former. And if you think cops will handle the misdemeanor theft of a bike differently than a misdemeanor theft of a car differently if the two victims are the same, you are getting a bit paranoid...

The hidden story: The cop car hit a cyclist on the way back to the bike shop and never stopped. Evidently the $3000 recovery blinded the cop from people who actually ride their bikes.

Yeah

What makes you believe the linked story is about Fissile?

I had nothing to do with this, I just saw the link at the Gothamist web site and posted it here.

I got a ride in an unmarked car to the taqueria where the bike was sold. On the drive over, we came within inches of hitting another car, and actually did hit a bicyclist with the car mirror. The bicyclist didn’t fall off or get hurt, so we left her swearing and making faces at us as we drove off.

The sweet, sweet irony!

Pinche taqueria? :D

Yet, if it were a $300 car I bet they'd be all over that too, cuz you know, cars are valuable and bikes are toys.

+1,000

You'll really ought to cut back on the kool-aid. A $300 theft is a misdemeanor and a $3000 theft is a felony, so of course the latter is treated as more important than the former. And if you think cops will handle the misdemeanor theft of a bike differently than a misdemeanor theft of a car differently if the two victims are the same, you are getting a bit paranoid...

Really, you think that all things being equal other then the type of vehicle that the police would respond the same?

Several years ago I had a nice burgundy GT Telera(sp) and a Burly trailer. I used both for transportation and shopping. I'd gone to the local Winn Dixie to do some grocery shopping. While I was in the grocery store my bike was stolen. Yes, it was locked to a bicycle rack and the trailer was locked to the bike. The cop who came out to take my statement was less then enthusiastic about having to respond to a stolen bicycle call and didn't go out of his way to offer any help.

Had I had a car stolen regardless of it's value, I think that his response would have been entirely different. Sadly, I never did recover the bike.

I find it amazing that had this police officer been wrong, some of you would have called for him to be fired, and held it up as an example of what's wrong in our country. Yet, he was right even though he arrested the thief without first seeing the bike, and just took someone's word for it with no evidence. Seems like you should be complaining about him making an arrest with questionable probable cause.

For the record, I think the officer did an excellent job of quickly and efficiently bringing this crime to a conclusion.

...Had I had a car stolen regardless of it's value, I think that his response would have been entirely different. Sadly, I never did recover the bike.

And as a citizen, I would expect police response for a stolen car to be different than for a stolen bike.

Stolen bikes are generally for transportation or to sell. Stolen cars are generally stolen in order to commit other crimes. Generally, if a person is going to do a burglary, home invasion robbery, etc., they don't steal a bike for their get-away vehicle. Rather, they'd steal a car instead. People driving stolen cars don't care if they crash, because it's not their car. Naturally, I'd expect a stolen car to get a higher priority because finding it will probably help prevent other people from also being victimized.

And as a citizen, I would expect police response for a stolen car to be different than for a stolen bike.

Stolen bikes are generally for transportation or to sell. Stolen cars are generally stolen in order to commit other crimes. Generally, if a person is going to do a burglary, home invasion robbery, etc., they don't steal a bike for their get-away vehicle. Rather, they'd steal a car instead. People driving stolen cars don't care if they crash, because it's not their car. Naturally, I'd expect a stolen car to get a higher priority because finding it will probably help prevent other people from also being victimized.


Can you cite the source of your claim?

Can you cite the source of your claim?

1- Friends that are cops
2- common sense

Really, how many times have you heard of someone crashing a stolen bicycle and causing significant property damage? Or how about, have you ever heard of a bank robber using a bicycle as a get-away vehicle? Sure, there might be rare cases. Of all my cop friends, I have never heard of a get-away bicycle. By and large, a stolen car = more crime to come until the car is returned to it's owner. People generally don't steal cars to get a ride somewhere or to sell (though, again, there might be rare cases. I'm sure some creative metal thieves have stolen cars to cut up for scrap metal).

I'd bet virtually any cop in any jurisdiction anywhere in the world would tell you they prioritize car thefts over bike thefts (again, possible rare exceptions such as Amsterdam). Maybe you're right and every one of them, with all of their thousands of years combined law enforcement experience have it wrong.

Regardless, if you don't like how cops prioritize crimes, why don't you do something about it? Get yourself elected mayor and change things.

1- Friends that are cops
2- common sense

Really, how many times have you heard of someone crashing a stolen bicycle and causing significant property damage? Or how about, have you ever heard of a bank robber using a bicycle as a get-away vehicle? Sure, there might be rare cases. Of all my cop friends, I have never heard of a get-away bicycle. By and large, a stolen car = more crime to come until the car is returned to it's owner. People generally don't steal cars to get a ride somewhere or to sell (though, again, there might be rare cases. I'm sure some creative metal thieves have stolen cars to cut up for scrap metal).

I'd bet virtually any cop in any jurisdiction anywhere in the world would tell you they prioritize car thefts over bike thefts (again, possible rare exceptions such as Amsterdam). Maybe you're right and every one of them, with all of their thousands of years combined law enforcement experience have it wrong.

Regardless, if you don't like how cops prioritize crimes, why don't you do something about it? Get yourself elected mayor and change things.

Aside from the "common sense" comment, you basically pulled the other claims out of your ass and your other claim of cop friends does not make it any more valid. Nice try though.

Had I had a car stolen regardless of it's value, I think that his response would have been entirely different. Sadly, I never did recover the bike.

This is probably pretty sad, but when our car was stolen they didn't seem too enthusiastic or ready to go get 'em either. Then again, Fresno cops have a rep for stuff like that.

I think with cars the big differences are a) with license plates and registration, it's a lot easier to find a stolen car and b) with revenue from citations being such a big deal for so many departments, they tend to be more likely to pop cars anyway, so they are out there watching already.

Sucks, but there it is.

Aside from the "common sense" comment, you basically pulled the other claims out of your ass and your other claim of cop friends does not make it any more valid. Nice try though.

Please, do share your wealth of experience. I'm sure you won't pull "claims out of your ass."

Run for mayor/other elected official and change the world. Do something about your perceived inequality/injustice and stop being a victim. Perhaps that's too much to ask.

And as a citizen, I would expect police response for a stolen car to be different than for a stolen bike.

Given that there are a lot of bikes on the road that costs as much if not more then the cars on the road, I as a citizen would expect that both crimes be treated equally.


Stolen bikes are generally for transportation or to sell. Stolen cars are generally stolen in order to commit other crimes. Generally, if a person is going to do a burglary, home invasion robbery, etc., they don't steal a bike for their get-away vehicle. Rather, they'd steal a car instead. People driving stolen cars don't care if they crash, because it's not their car. Naturally, I'd expect a stolen car to get a higher priority because finding it will probably help prevent other people from also being victimized.

If I were a criminal, I would use a bicycle to "case" a house or neighborhood. As you've said who's going to give a person on a bike a second glance? Also if I am not mistaken many drug dealers/seekers do so on bikes.

1- Friends that are cops
2- common sense

Really, how many times have you heard of someone crashing a stolen bicycle and causing significant property damage? Or how about, have you ever heard of a bank robber using a bicycle as a get-away vehicle? Sure, there might be rare cases. Of all my cop friends, I have never heard of a get-away bicycle. By and large, a stolen car = more crime to come until the car is returned to it's owner. People generally don't steal cars to get a ride somewhere or to sell (though, again, there might be rare cases. I'm sure some creative metal thieves have stolen cars to cut up for scrap metal).

I'd bet virtually any cop in any jurisdiction anywhere in the world would tell you they prioritize car thefts over bike thefts (again, possible rare exceptions such as Amsterdam). Maybe you're right and every one of them, with all of their thousands of years combined law enforcement experience have it wrong.

Regardless, if you don't like how cops prioritize crimes, why don't you do something about it? Get yourself elected mayor and change things.

Care to cite a verifiable source?

Again, if I were a criminal, I'm not, but IF I were I would choose a bicycle to not to case the house, neighborhood, or business that I was interested in. As who's going to give a person on a bicycle a second thought? Hell as we know they hardly give us a first thought. If I was a bank robber, again, I'd choose a bicycle as my get away vehicle as who's going to expect a bank robber to just ride away on a bicycle?

As most of us here know a person on a bicycle is pretty much "invisible." Therefore realistically a bicycle is the really the ideal vehicle for committing crimes.

Just ask your cop friends how much of the drug traffic in your city is done via the bicycle.

This is probably pretty sad, but when our car was stolen they didn't seem too enthusiastic or ready to go get 'em either. Then again, Fresno cops have a rep for stuff like that.

I think with cars the big differences are a) with license plates and registration, it's a lot easier to find a stolen car and b) with revenue from citations being such a big deal for so many departments, they tend to be more likely to pop cars anyway, so they are out there watching already.

Sucks, but there it is.

Sadly, you're probably right about that. Given that as you've said traffic citations are an "easy" revenue source for a lot a towns/cities. And that the LEOs are already on the lookout for people committing traffic infractions it's easy for them to spot a stolen car. :(

Please, do share your wealth of experience. I'm sure you won't pull "claims out of your ass."

Run for mayor/other elected official and change the world. Do something about your perceived inequality/injustice and stop being a victim. Perhaps that's too much to ask.

You are deflecting my query and seem irritated because I questioned the validity of your claim. Nowhere in any of my post did I express being a victim. There is another member who asked you to cite your source, by the way.
Your attempt to sound like an expert and a source of reliable information to support what you pulled out of your ass failed miserably. It would have been better, or amusing, if you cited your sources as something you've seen in a lot of movies. Perhaps that's too much to ask. :roflmao:Nice try, but you still fail.

Yet, he was right even though he arrested the thief without first seeing the bike, and just took someone's word for it with no evidence. .

Actually the story is quite clear that he showed the cop his pictures, (and we can probably assume the pictures were of the man WITH the bike, the same that he posted), AND the store employee was right there too telling him that the bike was stolen.

Actually the story is quite clear that he showed the cop his pictures, (and we can probably assume the pictures were of the man WITH the bike, the same that he posted), AND the store employee was right there too telling him that the bike was stolen.

You missed my point. The bike was not there. That officer made an arrest based on someone's word alone. There was no evidence to support it at the time. I agree with what the officer did, and I suspect most posters here do as well. However, had he been wrong, I suspect those same posters would have crucified him.

You are deflecting my query and seem irritated because I questioned the validity of your claim. Nowhere in any of my post did I express being a victim. There is another member who asked you to cite your source, by the way... :roflmao:Nice try, but you still fail.

So, when you said:


Can you cite the source of your claim?

And I said:

1- common sense
2- friends that are cops

I deflected your query? No, I answered it (with my own opinions).

Also, I never claimed to have a verifiable source. I spouted my own opinions and then backed them up with the above-mentioned unverifiable sources. The very same thing many here do.

You're right about one thing though. I do get irritated reading post after post of people complaining about how things are, while not taking any positive action to change things. If you don't like it, do something constructive, run for office, and change things. Whining about why the police did this, or didn't do that, without doing anything about it is allowing one to be a victim. Stop whining and do something about it.

What happens to the bike? Is it a 'used' bike now? The thing has probably never had pedals mounted to it, but may have been dropped ... and I wonder how many people would buy a carbon fiber frame that's been stolen, even briefly?

Sadly, you're probably right about that. Given that as you've said traffic citations are an "easy" revenue source for a lot a towns/cities. And that the LEOs are already on the lookout for people committing traffic infractions it's easy for them to spot a stolen car. :(

I'm not sure about where you are, but in Washington state, the local jurisdiction gets about 25% of the ticket amount. Some of where the money goes can be found here (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.63.110). When you factor in time, equipment, and gas, it may even be more cost effective for the jurisdiction to have less police and write no tickets.

You missed my point. The bike was not there. That officer made an arrest based on someone's word alone. There was no evidence to support it at the time. I agree with what the officer did, and I suspect most posters here do as well. However, had he been wrong, I suspect those same posters would have crucified him.Your are most likely wrong on this point. The police officer likely took the suspect into custody (equivalent of a Terry Stop) while continuing the investigation. Taking the suspect into custody only requires reasonable suspicion, which the cop had. Once the cop had the bicycle and corroboration from the delivery guy, there was more than enough probable cause for converting the investigative custody into an arrest.

Maybe you are not paying close enough attention to the thousands of years of experience of YOUR cop buddies.:rolleyes:

PS - there have been several bank robberies in Hawaii that the thief used a bicycle for the escape.

Actually makes sense for dense urban areas where a robber can quickly ride a few blocks with no license plate for ID, ditch the bike, pull off an outer shirt, and then walk or motor away.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e341/Doohickie/11NetJunk/cool-story-bro-580x418.jpg

I'm not sure about where you are, but in Washington state, the local jurisdiction gets about 25% of the ticket amount. Some of where the money goes can be found here (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.63.110). When you factor in time, equipment, and gas, it may even be more cost effective for the jurisdiction to have less police and write no tickets.

Not around here. Small towns on through highways especially are known for having a pretty portion of their department revenue come from tickets. Pretty commonplace, really.

Yet, if it were a $300 car I bet they'd be all over that too, cuz you know, cars are valuable and bikes are toys.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9CynvMlFyo&feature=related

Small towns on through highways especially are known for having a pretty portion of their department revenue come from tickets.

Europe is known for having faeries, too, though. People 'know' all sorts of things that aren't actually true, and "is/are known for" isn't especially convincing as a result.

And as a citizen, I would expect police response for a stolen car to be different than for a stolen bike.

Stolen bikes are generally for transportation or to sell. Stolen cars are generally stolen in order to commit other crimes. Generally, if a person is going to do a burglary, home invasion robbery, etc., they don't steal a bike for their get-away vehicle. Rather, they'd steal a car instead. People driving stolen cars don't care if they crash, because it's not their car. Naturally, I'd expect a stolen car to get a higher priority because finding it will probably help prevent other people from also being victimized.

To add, as a citizen I would expect bicycle theft to be a higher priority then it currently is if for no other reason then "today they're stealing bikes and tomorrow they're stealing cars and robbing banks and homes." Just as torturing and killing small animals is an indicator of more serious crimes to come if the person doesn't get help so too are petty thefts an indicator/precursor to more serious thefts.

So it makes sense for police to place a higher priority on bicycle theft then they currently do. And who knows by doing so they could very well keep someone from committing more serious crimes.

To add, as a citizen I would expect bicycle theft to be a higher priority then it currently is...

I wish it was too.

I wish it was too.

jist start call'n 'em "iron horses."

To add, as a citizen I would expect bicycle theft to be a higher priority then it currently is if for no other reason then "today they're stealing bikes and tomorrow they're stealing cars and robbing banks and homes."

Yeah, vague hunches are a good way to drive policy. Especially when those hunches are being debunked. But this is A&S, not reality, so facts should be ignored. :rolleyes:


The cracks in 'broken windows'

A crime-fighting theory that says stopping major crimes begins with stopping small ones has influenced policing strategies in Boston and elsewhere since the 1980s. But scholars are starting to question whether fixing broken windows really fixes much at all.

But while the Boston police are getting out their citation books, a series of recent academic studies has challenged the broken windows theory, opening a debate on its effectiveness-a debate the continued violence in Boston has rendered anything but academic.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2006/02/19/the_cracks_in_broken_windows/



According to most criminologists who speak of a broader "backlash",[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-8) the broken windows theory is not theoretically sound.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-Order_Maintenance_Reconsidered-9) They claim that the "broken windows theory" closely relates correlation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation) with causality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality), a reasoning which is prone to fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation). David Thacher, assistant professor of public policy and urban planning at the University of Michigan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan), stated in a 2004 paper that:[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-Order_Maintenance_Reconsidered-9)

[S]ocial science has not been kind to the broken windows theory. A number of scholars reanalyzed the initial studies that appeared to support it.... Others pressed forward with new, more sophisticated studies of the relationship between disorder and crime. The most prominent among them concluded that the relationship between disorder and serious crime is modest, and even that relationship is largely an artifact of more fundamental social forces.
It has also been argued that rates of major crimes also dropped in many other U.S. cities during the 1990s, both those that had adopted "zero-tolerance" policies and those that had not.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-10) In the Winter 2006 edition of the University of Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago) Law Review, Bernard Harcourt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Harcourt) and Jens Ludwig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Ludwig) looked at the later Department of Housing and Urban Development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Housing_and_Urban_Development) program that re-housed inner-city project tenants in New York into more orderly neighborhoods.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-11) The broken windows theory would suggest that these tenants would commit less crime once moved, due to the more stable conditions on the streets. Harcourt and Ludwig found instead that the tenants continued to commit crime at the same rate.
In a 2007 study called "Reefer Madness" in the journal Criminology and Public Policy, Harcourt and Ludwig found further evidence confirming that mean reversion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean) fully explained the changes in crime rates in the different precincts in New York during the 1990s. Further alternative explanations that have been put forward include the waning of the crack epidemic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_epidemic_%28United_States%29),[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-SLATE1-12) unrelated growth in the prison population due to Rockefeller drug laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_drug_laws),[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-SLATE1-12) and that the number of males aged 16–24 was dropping regardless due to the shape of the US population pyramid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_pyramid).[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#cite_note-FREAK-13)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory


The theory you suggest appeared to work well in New York City ... until you realize that the entire country was watching its crime rate fall, in places that embraced "the broken window theory" as well as in places that didn't.

Really, you think that all things being equal other then the type of vehicle that the police would respond the same?

Several years ago I had a nice burgundy GT Telera(sp) and a Burly trailer. I used both for transportation and shopping. I'd gone to the local Winn Dixie to do some grocery shopping. While I was in the grocery store my bike was stolen. Yes, it was locked to a bicycle rack and the trailer was locked to the bike. The cop who came out to take my statement was less then enthusiastic about having to respond to a stolen bicycle call and didn't go out of his way to offer any help.

Had I had a car stolen regardless of it's value, I think that his response would have been entirely different. Sadly, I never did recover the bike.

The cop's attitude may have been caused by his belief that bikes are toys not worthy of his effort, but more than likely there are other reasons. PD's are under a lot of pressure to show lower crime stats. Part of what they do to achieve the desired metrics is to ignore or play down "petty crimes". However, I suspect the main reason you were treated so poorly is because most cops are lazy, over-paid, thugs.

Also, you should not assume that you would have been treated differently if you were a cager. A few years ago while out for a 40 mile ride, I stopped at a super market to get something cold to drink. After making my purchase, I was sitting at a bench outside the store when a woman returned to her car and noticed that someone had crashed into it, pushing in the driver's side door. She asked me if I had seen what happened to her car, I told her that I didn't...which was the truth. At that point she called the police.

A few minutes later a cop showed up and I overheard the conversation.

Cop: "What's the problem."

Cager: "Someone damaged my car."

Cop: "Did you see who did it?"

Cager: "No."

Cop: "Are there any witnesses?"

Cager: "I don't know. I was inside the store when it happened"

At this point the cop yells at the woman, "You didn't see it and you got no witnesses. What do you want me to do about it?" The woman stood there flustered not knowing what to say. The cop turned around and got in his car an left.

I know that super market has the entire lot under video surveillance......I've see the inside of their security office. The cops knew it also. If it was his wife or girlfriend that called, he would have marched right into the security office and demanded to see the video from that part of the parking lot. I have no doubts the person who ran into that car would have been charged with hit-and-run by the end of the day.

Moral of the story, that cop was a just a lazy thug, like most cops.

Europe is known for having faeries, too, though. People 'know' all sorts of things that aren't actually true, and "is/are known for" isn't especially convincing as a result.

Really? Can I get a show of hands on how many people think faeries exist in Europe? Yeah, that's about how many people I thought...

Oh well, I guess I'll actually have to do the homework for folks here. Sorry to burst bubbles. :p

Cities, states use speeding ticket fines to make money (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/speeding-youll-pay-higher-taxes.aspx)

"You could say that it was born out of the deteriorating economy," Police Chief Dean McKimm says of the ramped-up enforcement. Handing out more traffic tickets was a way to both boost traffic safety and bring in dollars.

"We were facing layoffs, and we were trying to think outside the box," he says. "I'll be very blunt about that: It does save jobs. It was kind of a no-brainer."