Fifty Plus (50+) - Need a different bike as I'm maxing out the capabilities of the one I ride

I'm really maxing out the abilities of the bike I have and really want something more capable. I ride 23 miles/day, 5 to 6 days a week, usually 6 and avg between 16 to 17mph overall for the 23 miles(usually around 16.5)--if I get a bike that I can go faster on, I'll likely increase my mileage to 25 or more. Not sure if I should go to the hybrid that is more road like, i.e. Giant Rapid series, or go full on road. The hybrids I tried were the Giant Rapid 3 and the Specialized Sirrus(I believe). Even though the Rapid only had 8 cogs on the rear crankset and the Sirrus had 9, the Rapid was lighter, and seemed faster and smoother in the gearing. The Rapid had 700c x 28 tires whereas the Sirrus used 32s. http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/rapid.3/7298/44052/
(http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/rapid.3/7298/44052/)
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=52890&eid=6066&menuItemId=0
(http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=52890&eid=6066&menuItemId=0)
Now, if I had the LBS get a Rapid 2 or higher spec Specialized, I start to approach Road bike pricing. Also, Road bikes have more hand positions than the flat bar bikes(even if you do have bar ends). I test rode the Giant Defy 1 and the Specialized Allez. The Allez has a much more aggressive riding position(more like racing). I liked the Defy 1, but the price $13XX.00 is daunting. If I dropped down in component level the price hovers around 1170. The Allez was 830, (the aggressive riding position didn't appeal to me).

The bike I'm really leaning towards is the Giant Defy 1(2011): http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.2/7307/44048/
(http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.2/7307/44048/) I'm thinking road as I there are greater number of hand positions, hoods, flats, drops, than with a fitness, flat-bar, bike, and remember, if I upgrade the components on the Giant Rapid, it's starts to get closer to the cost of a roadie. The Defy 1, $1370, has shimano 105s whereas the Defy 2, $1160 has Shimano Tiagra(the 2012 Defy 2 is 10 speed cassette whereas the 2011 Defy 2 is a 9 speed cassette). The Defy 1 that I test rode is a 2011 model...only difference in '11 and '12 Defy 1 models is color scheme from every thing I can tell.

I also tried a Canonndale Cad8 and a Specialized Sectaur...I still like the Defy better...the Sectaur comes in second.

Defy 1 2012 http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy/9014/48853/
(http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy/9014/48853/)
Defy 2 2011 http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.2/7307/44048/
(http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.2/7307/44048/)
Defy 2 2012 http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.2/9014/48854/

Get the road bike.

What you need is a bit more fun. I was riding the same milage and speed as you on this -until November came along...http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6198/6154495796_3d4a4deeac.jpg
You should be looking at a mini velo. Here's a cheap one http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/nano.htm
Its not how many miles you've ridden but how long you kept the fun meter pegged!

Get the road bike.

+1 road bike.

Road bike. Flat handlebars are uncomfortable for longer distances.

The economy needs you to buy the most expensive bike you can afford. Whatever you buy you will enjoy the heck out of it for a while, and then you will find yourself looking for n+1. It's an incurable disease with many up sides. Enjoy the new ride, then enjoy some nostalgic rides on the old machine.

Looks like it's time for a roadbike:)

If you don't like the aggressive position, set the handlebars higher to be more comfortable. You don't have ride like you're racing.

Marc

+1 on the road bike-- and remember, you don't have to ride the drops-- the hoods and the flat part next to the stem are great hand positions that don't give you that aggressive feel you are dreading. Either that, or go to a fixed gear :)

train safe

It's decided - road bike.

Road Bike. With that kind of dedicated riding schedule, there's no other choice.

You're going to LOVE it.

Road bikes rule. :)

Ladies and Gentlemen, we are witnessing a classic case of N+1 Syndrome.

(psssst! Roadbike)

ROAD BIKE.

PS I have yet to max out my current bike. My best so far is a no-draft 2-hr half century. Yeah, it's a 'bent.

OP, a few observations.

1. You don't (iirc) specify what you are riding now. Consequently, it is difficult for anyone here to give you specific, pertinent advice given your stated intentions (e.g. will a "road bike" make that much difference?).

2. You've chosen an excellent comparison. The Giant Defy and Rapid series are both "road bikes". The Rapid is not a 'hybrid' by any rational definition; rather, it is (literally) a flat-barred version of the Defy: same frame geometry (excepting a slightly longer top tube for a given size), frame material/construction and comparable components etc. at the various price levels.

3. As I said above, the Rapid is every bit as much a "road bike" as a Defy (or a Cervelo, blah blah). Flat or drop bars are not, in my view, determinative. The question as to which you prefer (bar type) is one you, and only you can decide. Why?

4. ... because it is simply nonsense to assert (as many do) that 'flat-bars are inherently uncomfortable over long distances' etc. blah blah. For some, and perhaps for you, they are; in that case, drop bars are for you. For some, me for example and many other cyclists, many of whom are ultra-long distance tourers and/or racers (e.g. several 'round the world' record setters), they most definitely are not.

I have twice purchased, and been able to return (great LBS!) drop-bar bikes. I just don't 'get on' with drop bars -- and yes, both bikes were professionally 'fit' to me. I ride a 2010 Spec Sirrus Comp, with flat bars/bar ends and Ergon grips. I ride 'road', I regularly do rides of 40 to 50 miles, and have done a couple of 'century rides' on this bike.

I don't like, and don't want, 'drops', but my point is that is just me. I've yet to find flat bars 'uncomfortable' over distance rides.You may prefer drops or not, but my only advice is go with your real preference, rather than what you think you "should" have and/or what the cumulative wisdom of the InterWebs dictates.

@buelito
Oh, I know about the drops. When I was in college, I rode a road bike, 10 speed steel bike--rarely used the drops. The Allez had an aggressive position even on the flats and horns.

Thanks for the input everyone. I've just been waffling between the Defy 1 and Defy 2--who am I kidding, 90% it'll be the Defy 1; it has the better components.

@badger,
I hear you. BTW, right now I ride a Diamondback Edgewood LX, a hybrid/comfort. I may take another test ride of the Rapid and the Defy just to have more recent comparison.

@buelito

Thanks for the input everyone. I've just been waffling between the Defy 1 and Defy 2--who am I kidding, 90% it'll be the Defy 1; it has the better components.



Excellent choice. You'll be very happy with that bike.
Now, on to the next decision: Pedals. Are you clipless yet and if not, how much convincing do you need to try them?

For comfort, you have to consider a bent. My musashi took me for a 20 mile ride on Sunday. No pain, just fun. Good luck with your decision.
ROAD BIKE.

PS I have yet to max out my current bike. My best so far is a no-draft 2-hr half century. Yeah, it's a 'bent.

If you have truly narrowed down the choice between a Defy 1 and a Rapid 3, my vote goes to the Defy. Not because of the straight bar vs drop bar battle, but because the components are much better between the two bikes you are looking at. Of course if you find that you do prefer the straight bar over the drop bar, you can go to the Rapid 1 and get better components. I have been contemplating on selling my Cypress and getting a Rapid 3 because of the decrease in weight between the two bikes. That would give me a drop bar and a flat bar bike that would be able to handle long distance rides.

I'm really maxing out the abilities of the bike I have and really want something more capable. I ride 23 miles/day, 5 to 6 days a week, usually 6 and avg between 16 to 17mph overall for the 23 miles(usually around 16.5)--if I get a bike that I can go faster on, I'll likely increase my mileage to 25 or more.

Are you truly maxing your bike or are you maxing yourself? A mountain bike with a 44-11 top gear and 26x2 tyres will get to speeds higher than that without even using the highest gears.

When I bought a cross bike to go alongside my mountain bike I expected it to be much faster. It is faster going up hills, and I can get up to speed faster, but my overall cruising speeds aren't as much faster than the mountain bike as I expected. The simple reason for that is that I'm still using the same engine as before and so both bikes have the exact same shortcoming, they both need an engine upgrade.

If you're wanting a new bike obviously that's your call but sometimes you can get a lot of extra mileage out of an existing bike by just changing a couple of components.

Salsa Casseroll

http://www.bikeman.com/BK8212.html

A lot of truth to what Contango has said. I changed the crankset on my mountain bike to a 28-38-48 and the cassette to a 13-34 and I can't outperform it now. When it was a 24/34/44 with a 14-34 cassette I wore out the big ring on the front and little one on the back.

Have you looked at the X-cross bikes? A Giant TCX1 is SRAM Rival.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/tcx.1/9022/48877/

If you are going to have a 2 bike garage then get a road bike. Ride as many as the LBs's will allow and then go back for a second or 3rd round before making a decision.

Are you truly maxing your bike or are you maxing yourself? A mountain bike with a 44-11 top gear and 26x2 tyres will get to speeds higher than that without even using the highest gears.


I think you've got it backwards. The hold-up right now is that his current bike isn't designed for the speeds he wants. 'Upgrading the engine' isn't always the answer. Putting huge gears on a barge only makes it go faster if you've got the wattage to burn.

Get something you won't max out like a Specialized Tarmac SL4. That will work until the SL5 comes out. lol

What about a recumbent trike :) Comfortable, and you'll get more exercise on it (3 wheels, a bit slower, heavier/ more of a work-out)?

Is the point simply to get more speed, or to build up, or more comfort? What I got from your post is you want more speed. But, is that actually what you are looking for? By really defining what you want to get from the next ride, you'll be able to answer your own question. Of course a trike isn't on your list, but do you know why it isn't?

Road bike.

Since aero drag accounts for about 98% of riding resistance, you won't go faster on level ground without reducing drag.
If speed is your major goal then ride in the drops. It reduces frontal area and utilizes more large muscle (gluts) to put power into the bike.

After you get that out of your system, you'll still be left with the best bike for riding on the road.

I think you've got it backwards. The hold-up right now is that his current bike isn't designed for the speeds he wants. 'Upgrading the engine' isn't always the answer. Putting huge gears on a barge only makes it go faster if you've got the wattage to burn.

My point was that if you go from a mountain bike with big fat tyres to a sleeker bike with drop handlebars that weighs half as much and has nice skinny tyres you may still not end up going much faster.

I can maintain 18-20mph on my mountain bike and when my car was off the road I covered 35 miles in a little over two hours (I averaged a whisker under 16mph, based on total elapsed time including one water break and one confusion break in a one-way system).

If you're not spinning the pedals in the highest gear you've got then the bike has scope to go faster.

I can relate to bikey Mikey 100%. 5 years ago I got my first road bike after 16 years of MTB's. Bought basic in a Giant OCR3 and the only problem I had was adapting to the different riding poition. 6 months later and I could still not use the drops so practised using it on every ride. Not long before they felt natural. Then came the problem of the bike not feeling good enough-Turned out it was wheels and one set of handbuilts later and the bike worked again. Then one year after buying the bike I went to France and climbed a mountain.

But despite that being a good bike--I felt that my capabilities had grown and the bike was not up to them. Back to the UK and back to the LBS and £2,500 later and I had a superb bike in Boreas. That was when my road cycling took off and 6 months later and a 2nd road bike bought in a Giant TCR-C just so I had a decent bike as a spare:innocent:

So I do realise that there comes a time when the next stage in riding capability comes along-and how to cure it.

Defy 1 and a good choice.

But there are others. My neighbour bought a Jamis Ventura last year and that is one bike I would recommend any one to look at.

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/ventura/11_venturarace_spec.html

Then there is Salsa which someone else has mentioned and plenty of other makes. Although I am a Giant Fan--Look around at other makes--Especially that Jamis.

+1 on the road bike.

I picked up a '11 Defy 1 this year and love it. I have about 1,200 miles on it so far, including BRAG, and have no complaints. You may be able to get a little off the $1,300 price tag of a 2011 model, I got mine for a couple hundred off of MSRP; it never hurts to ask. My son rides a '11 Secteur which has identical geometry to the Defy, but his has SRAM Apex stuff. Either is a great choice, but I like the finish on the Specialized a little better.

Greg

Road bike, relaxed geometry. Get over the sticker shock and get the best one you can just barely afford, you'll appreciate it in the end. 25 miles is nothing, kick up your mileage and add some sprint workouts. You aren't maxing out the capabilities of your bike, you're just not pushing it as hard as you really can, but a cheap bike is much less comfortable to push on, so get a good one. Think $1500 as a minimum. Make sure they throw in a bike fitting. Make sure you have good clothing (bibs, shoes, etc) and you'll be amazed how your rides will change.

The Diamondback is a heavy bike. I did change the tires at one point because I was getting flats with the original tires, 700x40s, max PSI of 75. I got some continental FlackJackets, 700x38, max PSI of 100--this change, I found, got me a smidge more speed, but my increases, from the beginning and after the tire change, have been steady from my increased fitness and strength. The Diamondback has only 7 speeds in the rear cassette and the change in effort is rather large from one gear to the next, especially going from the 6th to the 7th. In the past, I rode in gear 6 in the back and the large gear in the front and, my best time did reach a max avg of 17.3 mph overall for 20 miles. I have for a couple of weeks been using gear 5 and the large front gear, gear 3--still averaging 16 to 16.8 mph overall for 23 miles--but using a faster cadence and getting a better aerobic workout. Today I did an overall max of 17 mph using 5 in the rear and 3 in the front. Of course, I do use gear 6 and 7 in downhills to keep the effort up--I don't coast.


The bike I'm now using.
http://www.diamondback.com/wp-content/uploads/post-images/DB2010EdgewoodLXBlue_Profile_LRG.jpg

specs: http://www.diamondback.com/bikes/hybrid/2010-hybrid/edgewood-lx-10/

All that cushioning, the stem(I did tighten the seat stem spring to be much firmer from the beginning), seat with springs, forks, is really wasting a lot of energy, and even if I changed the rear cassette, derailers, shifters, and used a narrower tire, say a 32, I wouldn't get a big enough gain with all the inefficiencies inherent in the bike. If I then also change the stem and the seat...all the money would be running close to at least justify the Rapid 3...btw, if I went Rapid, I would get the Rapid 2.

It's not so much speed is my ultimate goal, except from getting stronger and my machine, myself, getting better, it's that if I can also complete my rides quicker. 23 miles today took just shy of 1 hour 21 minutes, I will likely be increasing my daily rides to 25 miles with one or two days doing 35+, with a more efficient bike.

This is for my fitness/health. I don't plan on racing. I may join in some group rides...at present, I ride alone.

@contagno,
I hear you. I will say that on my test rides, be it the fitness bike, the Rapid, or the roadie, the Defy, I could tell I was faster on the level ride and definitely faster and better on going up the hills--we don't really have too many hills and they aren't huge.

@stepfam,
No one in the area deals in Jamis or Salsa :(

@HIPCHIP,
I already have the clothing so I can ride in the winter and to prevent chaffing(shorts with chamois), and bought some out of season warm weather jerseys. The LBS includes the bike fitting and includes lifetime tune-up and adjustments on bikes you buy from them. Heck, they've done some free adjusting on the bike I have now without trying to charge me. I have bought some clothing, tires, tubes, and had 2 spokes replaced from the LBS. They care more that you ride.



Edit: About Jamis, there seems to be a dealer in the area, although around 40 miles away from me. A shop I didn't even know existed.

If you are riding that bike at 17mph for 20 miles--Then the same speed for 40 miles will be no problem on a true road bike....... Having been there in my change from MTB to Road-Go for the road bike. Practice getting into the drops and you will find it comfortable but you will be riding on the hoods most of the time.

The Defy will give you a good ride. I was surprised that it was so good when I got a test ride on one- but remember that you will be on a slippery slope. Start saving now for the "New" bike in a couple of years time.

Edit----- surprised no-one has said it already. Within a price range- most bikes will be around the same quality and will probably ride the same. Perhaps some difference in Geometry and one may fit you better than another but it is down to personal preference.

But more important is finding the right LBS. That can be difficult but if they have let you out on test rides on several bikes and you feel they can offer the right info to make the bike choice------AND help out with setting up the bike and posiible discount----It's sounds as though you have found your LBS. And once you have found your LBS- you will probably buy the bike brand they sell so Make is immaterial.

The LBS is not.

I may be putting the purchase on hold for a bit. I have been suffering from trigger finger since about April '10. Two steroid injections later, I still have it and it has been flaring up more and more. I go see the Orthopedic Surgeon on the 29th this month--soonest I could get an appointment. Only likely scenario will be surgery to alleviate the problem, or just live with it with the likelihood of the problem getting worse. Additionally, I'll probably at some time later need carpel tunnel surgery, at least in the right-hand. Last thing I want is this beautiful bike sitting there, taunting me while I am recovering and unable to ride. :cry:

I'm going to ride up until the surgery and will get back on the second I can after recovery. I'll just walk 4 miles a day while I can't ride.

Bummer on the upcoming surgery. I had a Spec Sirrus that I eventually sold to upgrade to a Cannondale Synapse Carbon. The upright position was not comfortable on longer rides where the C'dale is for me. Being an older rider I had concerns about the road bike due to having back surgery in 1994 but no problems so far. When you get to the point where you can buy, get the best you can. Life is too short to buy cheap booze or cheap toys!

Did anybody say road bike yet? doh..better make that a lightweight hybrid, if you're used to an upright geometry.

Need a different bike as I'm maxing out the capabilities of the one I ride (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/showthread.php/781731-Need-a-different-bike-as-I-m-maxing-out-the-capabilities-of-the-one-I-ride)

You really haven't, but no one needs an excuse for a new bike!!

I hope things go well with the surgery etc., and you get situated on your new bike.

Bikey Mikey: if there's a significant other: that's the tipping point.

I'm really maxing out the abilities of the bike I have and really want something more capable. I ride 23 miles/day, 5 to 6 days a week, usually 6 and avg between 16 to 17mph overall for the 23 miles(usually around 16.5)--if I get a bike that I can go faster on, I'll likely increase my mileage to 25 or more.

You have not maxed out the abilities of the bike, until you get to the point where, your in the highest gear on the flats, with an RPM exceeding 100 and needing more gears to shift up into, to hold your cadence from needing to go even higher to go faster. Don't expect though that moving from a decent mountain bike to a decent road bike is going to gain you a huge speed increase. The pro racers gain performance, with lighter and more aggressive bikes, but the amount of performance gain, is not that large. For me the average speed on my road bike is about 18km/h, the average speed on the mountain bike is 17.5km/h, I don't come anywhere near the maximum capability of either bike.

Would I LIKE a better bike, oh yeah, do I need a better bike, uh, no....

@Wogster and others about not maxing out the bike,

Yes and no, you are correct in that on flats, I can do more. In fact, on flats, with no wind, and a nice well paved, smooth road, I actually get to close to 20mph, but, there are several hills, turns where I often have to slow down, roads that are not that smooth(that offer more resistance), and a few areas where I have to stop(traffic laws) and start up again. I want to keep the distance I ride, and increase, but reduce the time it takes. When I do get either the much better, lighter, fitness/hybrid bike or, and most likely, the road bike, I will have faster hill climbs(with wide tires and heavy bike(probably weighs nearly 40 lbs) out of the picture), and easier ability to get back up to speed--what eats up my time and speed, is the regaining speed after a slow down/stop and the hill climbing.

------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, not only may the surgery delay the purchase, but we just incurred a large unexpected financial cost. The wife and I had to go rescue our daughter from an abusive relationship earlier this week, which is why I haven't been around. We traveled by car nearly 600 miles to OH on Monday(with only 3 1/2 hours sleep), rented a truck on Tuesday AM(with only 4hours sleep), packed it. The wife and daughter drove the car and I drove the truck to Harrisonburg, VA to stay in a hotel, got there at 12:30AM, Wednesday. Wednesday(actually managed about 7 hours sleep), we left and finished the rest of the traveling and got home around 4:30 PM. We actually unpacked the truck and set up a fair amount of her stuff in her old room that night.

My daughter's safety and mental health is far more important than a better and newer bike. I can still get health benefits and keep up my fitness on the bike I have now.

I have to thank my my future daughter-in-law's very close childhood friend who drove 100 miles to help us pack the truck on Tuesday. Without him, this would've been an even harder trip. Gave the guy $100.

What's behind your desire for a new bike makes more sense now.

Since you've got your daughter to safety (which, as you say, is more important than a shiny new bike), you may find you can get at least some benefits by swapping lumpy MTB tyres for smoother tyres. You should get some benefit at a small fraction of the cost of a new bike.

Another thing you may or may not already be doing is to drop to the middle chainring when you have to stop. With a 3x9 config on my bike I always used to stop in the outer chainring and the 4th gear at the back and pull away like that. The guy at my LBS said my chains would last longer if I used a lower gear to pull away so I tried it. I don't know if the chain is lasting any longer but it does mean I can get up to speed much more quickly.