Folding Bikes - Climbing the steepest streets in San Francisco on a Bike Friday Pocket Companion

I took a trip to San Francisco yesterday in a rental car, so that meant taking my Bike Friday Pocket Companion. I bought it for the low climbing gears. It has a triple, and I replaced the stock 30t small chainring with a 24t, which gives me a 16 inch low gear.

Thanks to a cyclist on another forum, I got a list of the steepest streets in The City. Because of limited daylight, I decided to do just all the steepest climbs in the Nob Hill, Russian Hill, and Pacific Heights areas.

I started with Filbert between Hyde and Leavenworth, a 31.5% grade. This is where I discovered that my waterbottle needed to be on the frame-mounted bottle cage, not the handlebar-mounted one. It kept poking me in the chest because I had to lean over so much.

Next was Jones between Filbert and Union, a 29% grade. After that was Jones between Union and Green, a 26% grade. Then a ride down Broadway and up some more lesser hills before the next steep street-Webster between Broadway and Vallejo (26%). Next was Fillmore between Broadway and Vallejo at 24%.

The next hill is where I met my match. Broderick between Broadway and Vallejo is a 38% grade. It is so steep there is no road, just a sidewalk on the left side of the street (facing uphill).

I made it halfway up on my first attempt, then ran out of steam. Same thing 4 tries later, each time making less progress than the time before. By then it was dark and I decided to go back to Nob Hill and climb the last hill of the day, Jones between Pine and California (24.8%). Typical of the last hard climb of a ride, this one hurt near the top. Good stuff!

My HR hit 202 on this ride. I saw it hit 200 at the top of the only climb where I remembered to look at the Garmin.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/130582283#

I brought my GoPro HD Hero 960 camera with me and mounted it on the handlebars. There's no way my helmet-mounted ContourHD would have produced good footage with this ride. I had my head down for most of the climbs, so you would have had a lovely view of the pavement.

I only had to use my lowest gear on Broderick. I did the second attempt in second gear, but all the rest were in the lowest gear.

Here's the video. I left out the last climb up Jones because, like the ContourHD, the GoPro sucks at night video. You can see for yourself on the last attempt up Broderick.

Be forewarned, the intensity of these efforts is very audible at times, so keep this in mind if you have anyone within earshot while watching this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbc5iG3M1q0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbc5iG3M1q0

Here's some pics.

Bottom of Filbert between Hyde and Leavenworth
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/bottomofFilbertbetweenHydeLeavenworth.jpg

Top of Filbert
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/topofFilbertbetweenHydeLeavenworth.jpg

Bottom of Jones between Union and Filbert
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/bottomofJonesbetweenUnionFilbert.jpg

Top of Jones between Union and Filbert
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/topofJonesbetweenUnionFilbert.jpg

Fillmore between Vallejo and Broadway
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/FillmorebetweenVallejoBroadway.jpg

Webster between Vallejo and Broadway
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/WebsterbetweenVallejoBroadway.jpg

Top of Broderick between Broadway and Vallejo
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/topofBroderickbetweenBroadwayVallejo.jpg

Bottom of Broderick
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/bottomofBroderickbetweenVallejoBroadway.jpg

Top of Jones between California and Pine
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/topofJonesbetweenPineCalifornia.jpg

you rock!!!:thumb:

Here, the block that had a stepped sidewalk slid again, now the stairs have a slope .
a landslide with pavement on it.

A cyclist on another forum posted a link (http://www.datapointed.net/2010/02/more-steeps-of-san-francisco/) to a new, revised list of SF's steepest streets. Looks like I have my work cut out for me! :eek:

Nice video. You should post this to the Northern California forum, too.

Here's another video of the San Francisco hills that someone did: http://vimeo.com/18492862
His list looks easier than yours.

Some of the hills around Fisherman's Wharf are steep, but the steepest hills in the city really are in the southern part of the city around Bernal Heights and Portrero Hill.

A cyclist on another forum posted a link (http://www.datapointed.net/2010/02/more-steeps-of-san-francisco/) to a new, revised list of SF's steepest streets. Looks like I have my work cut out for me! :eek:

Where's your weight loss tracker?? Are you now svelte with no need for tracking anymore?? Great job on the SF streets .. I like the road along Ocean Beach myself .. :lol:

Where's your weight loss tracker?? Are you now svelte with no need for tracking anymore?? Great job on the SF streets .. I like the road along Ocean Beach myself .. :lol:
Unfortunately, I reached a weight loss plateau during the summer. It lasted so long I decided to ditch the ticker. I still would like to lose another 20 pounds though.

A cyclist on another forum posted a link (http://www.datapointed.net/2010/02/more-steeps-of-san-francisco/) to a new, revised list of SF's steepest streets. Looks like I have my work cut out for me! :eek:

Wow, the one in the pic there looks fun! Steep and Rough!

http://www.datapointed.net/media/2010/02/24th.jpg

Good climbing! One has to be very fit to be able to do this sort of thing. Plus technique so as not to fall off. I have done a 30% and only just reached the top, couple years ago when I was fitter. Recently I tried a short hill in Sydney; I was seated at first but the front wheel lifted immediately. I panicked a bit as I was clicked into the pedals, so I stood up and then the back wheel lost traction. Crash. I don't know how steep that one was, I estimate around 25-30%, and I had a hard time walking back down, a little crestfallen.

Wow, the one in the pic there looks fun! Steep and Rough!

http://www.datapointed.net/media/2010/02/24th.jpg
Looks like a lesser version of Canton Ave in Pittsburgh, PA (37% grade), doesn't it? After my failure on a non-cobbled 38% grade, I seriously doubt I would be able to make it up Canton. Major Kudos to those racers in the Dirty Dozen videos I've seen on YouTube! Some of them make it look almost effortless!


Good climbing! One has to be very fit to be able to do this sort of thing. Plus technique so as not to fall off. I have done a 30% and only just reached the top, couple years ago when I was fitter. Recently I tried a short hill in Sydney; I was seated at first but the front wheel lifted immediately. I panicked a bit as I was clicked into the pedals, so I stood up and then the back wheel lost traction. Crash. I don't know how steep that one was, I estimate around 25-30%, and I had a hard time walking back down, a little crestfallen.
I noticed tiny wheelies on the 29% section of Jones, so I got out of the saddle. On the 31.5% Filbert and the 38% Broderick, I had no choice. There was no way those could be climbed in the saddle. Heck, Broderick couldn't be climbed out of the saddle!

This is another reason why I refuse to use clipless pedals while attempting such steep climbs. I can just picture myself falling over because I was unable to clip out in time, then rolling down the hill like a snowball. :eek:

that's a real workout. you sure is having fun with your bike friday. looking forward to more videos.....HAPPY THANKSGIVING...

It sure was! It was probably some of the best strength training there is. :D Now that I have a new list of SF's steepest streets, plus Marin Ave. in Berkeley, there will definitely be more videos.

Listening to your attempt of Broderick, I noticed much faster cadence. From my armchair POV, you could try climb as slow as possible without falling over so as to reduce your vertical speed to being equal to the 30% climbs you did earlier. Above all else, it is vertical speed that completely dominates effort. You weren't able to reach the top because of your vertical speed exceeding your body maximum, requiring more power output than what you can do over the time required to reach the top. All needs to be orchestrated.

[end armchair advice] ;)

Nice video. You should post this to the Northern California forum, too.

Here's another video of the San Francisco hills that someone did: http://vimeo.com/18492862
His list looks easier than yours.

Some of the hills around Fisherman's Wharf are steep, but the steepest hills in the city really are in the southern part of the city around Bernal Heights and Portrero Hill.
I did (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/783394-Climbing-the-steepest-streets-in-San-Francisco-on-a-folding-bike). ;)

That video is a classic! That was the second climbing video I saved to my hard drive when I started the climbing rides again. I watched it before and after my climb, and I am in awe of his almost effortless speed up those hills! :thumb:

I also watched this guy's climb up the 33% Fargo Street in LA before and after my climbs. Like my videos, his is raw footage so you get the full experience of the effort and intensity of climbing such a steep grade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer7KsZQApo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer7KsZQApo

Listening to your attempt of Broderick, I noticed much faster cadence. From my armchair POV, you could try climb as slow as possible without falling over so as to reduce your vertical speed to being equal to the 30% climbs you did earlier. Above all else, it is vertical speed that completely dominates effort. You weren't able to reach the top because of your vertical speed exceeding your body maximum, requiring more power output than what you can do over the time required to reach the top. All needs to be orchestrated.

[end armchair advice] ;)
I thought that might be a problem too, so I did one attempt in the next higher gear. I stalled out even earlier, so I did the rest of the attempts in the lowest gear like I did the first time. Maybe I didn't go slow enough. I will definitely be attempting this one again and again until I make it.

Good one!

I think someone devised a bike with an even lower gear and was able to do a climb like yours sitting down. Still, it's too difficult for me.

Good one!

I think someone devised a bike with an even lower gear and was able to do a climb like yours sitting down. Still, it's too difficult for me.
Was it this one? He used it on the 33% Fargo Street in LA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgIL6eHHgZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgIL6eHHgZU

It sure was! It was probably some of the best strength training there is. :D Now that I have a new list of SF's steepest streets, plus Marin Ave. in Berkeley, there will definitely be more videos.

Marin Ave. is a nasty one.. back in the day, my buddy and I would train by running up it.. if you do Marin Ave., give yourself a little treat and take a right at the top of the hill and ride along the skyline for awhile and then drop into Tilden Park and then out Wildcat canyon.. terrific riding..

Bruce

Marin Ave. is a nasty one.. back in the day, my buddy and I would train by running up it.. if you do Marin Ave., give yourself a little treat and take a right at the top of the hill and ride along the skyline for awhile and then drop into Tilden Park and then out Wildcat canyon.. terrific riding..

Bruce
I believe it! I read posts from other cyclists on other forums and/or blogs describing how hard it was to climb it. I think it reaches 28 or 30%, and maybe even for several blocks? I forgot. Anyway, it will make for a GREAT video! :D

Great riding! Next time you do this, post here ahead of time. Maybe some of us are crazy enough to join you. :)

I think someone devised a bike with an even lower gear and was able to do a climb like yours sitting down. Still, it's too difficult for me.

Mountain Tamer Quad Plus, perhaps.

http://abundantadventures.com/adap0021.jpg

Was it this one? He used it on the 33% Fargo Street in LA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgIL6eHHgZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgIL6eHHgZU

That's the one! It's a shame you can't have a low gear like that without having to use two cranks.

Mountain Tamer could get you a 12.4" with a 16 little ring and 34 big cog on 700x25 tires.

11.5" on 26x1.25" tires.

Great riding! Next time you do this, post here ahead of time. Maybe some of us are crazy enough to join you. :)
Will do. ;)


Mountain Tamer Quad Plus, perhaps.

http://abundantadventures.com/adap0021.jpg
Dayum! I've seen pictures of those with four chainrings, but FIVE? Needless to say, you need a wide-range friction shifting front derailleur with that.

It looks like it uses a cassette cog for the smallest chainring, judging by the visible splines on the crankset.

For a slightly different perspective, here's the footage from the ContourHD helmet cam. I didn't look down as much as I thought I did, so I figured it was worth putting on Contour's video site with the rest of my ContourHD vids. You can hear a descending cyclist skidding down the 26% section of Jones between Union and Green on this one. On the GoPro video it sounded like I was applying my brakes while climbing! :lol:

It won't embed even using Contour's embed code, so you have to click on the URL.

http://contour.com/stories/climbing-the-steepest-san-francisco-hills-on-a-bike-friday-folding-bike-11-23-11

I put a mountain drive crank on my Brompton, 2.5 :1 reduction gear.
so as if a 50t-20t double , the 3 speed is used twice, pick the big ring
and the planetary little one gets silly low, if that is your desire.

I tried a quad in the 80s, achieved silly low, could not restart on a hill
because the momentum went a way in a half crank rotation
Before I could get my foot on the other pedal

I tried a quad in the 80s, achieved silly low, could not restart on a hill
because the momentum went a way in a half crank rotation
Before I could get my foot on the other pedal
Yes, I do believe there is such a thing as too low of a gear. I'm sure if I had a 6 inch low gear or something like that on Broderick, I would have toppled over from lack of momentum.

Visiting my Sis in SF. She lives near Castro and Noe, basically the hill that separates that overlooks Dolores Park. Seems like every other street here requires 90* parking. Went for a run this morning --- can't imagine riding these hills.

You don't know what you're missing! With mtb gearing like I have on the Bike Friday, it's some serious fun! :D

BF,PL, I got a Rohloff in mine, 16/53. but at 64 I'm not too proud
to get off and push.

perhaps the roots of calling them 'push bikes' in Britain.
to differentiate them from the motor bikes.

You're probably right about the name "push bike". I like the challenge of trying to make it up the steepest hills possible, but I'm not too proud to admit defeat after that 38% grade whooped my butt!

I believe it! I read posts from other cyclists on other forums and/or blogs describing how hard it was to climb it. I think it reaches 28 or 30%, and maybe even for several blocks? I forgot. Anyway, it will make for a GREAT video! :D

Hey Freighttrain, I was in Berkeley this weekend at the turnaround and thought of you ... did you ever grunt up Marin?

Not yet. I haven't been back to the Bay Area since the day I made the SF video. Marin is definitely in the plans though, and there will be video, as always. ;)

Hopefully by the time I climb it I will have lost some weight. I'm gonna need all the help I can get! :D

Awesome thread. Next time I'm visiting SF hopefully I will have a folder with me that I can try some of these with.

I like the challenge, I have a S6L with Schlumpf Mountain Drive, about 18" low. I've biked up plenty of steep hills , around the 30% gradient, the challenge is not physical strength, I'm fairly fit usually but the challenge would be

keeping the front wheel on the ground, would need to load a lot of weight in say a Brompton C-bag to keep the wheel down
getting enough traction, tyre to ground, keeping weight back helps, so the front ballast becomes more important
I don't own a camera I can use like the OP :( we should meetup and video each other

That sounds like a great idea! I have enough extra cameras that I could even mount one on your bike for a first-person effort video. It would have to be raw, of course. That gives the viewer the full experience of just how difficult these climbs are. With music covering up the original audio the viewer can see that the rider is climbing a steep hill, but the effort is masked. IMHO, the original ride audio is part of the story too.

Marin Avenue is gonna be a doozy! I would like to be able to climb it straight up without having to go down the cross streets to recover, but I probably have to get rid of this last bit of weight first.

The Bike Friday must have good geometry for climbing, as I never had any trouble keeping the front wheel on the ground. On grades of 29% and up I was out of the saddle and leaning way over anyway, so that moved the center of gravity forward too.

I've tried riding weight as forward as possible but then the very low gear just made the back wheel spin. Anything which makes you put your foot down to stop falling over just means restarting at the bottom and that ultimately causes the failure, you're going so slow the bike falls over, hence the "too low" issue, that then forces you back into physical pain as the most likely to succeed approach.

I was biking up a steep hill on a Brompton once and saw a memorial of a cyclist who died there. Don't push yourself TOO hard out there!

I'm using the stock 20x1.75 Kenda Kontacts, which are a BMX tire. Maybe they're really grippy, as I've never spun the back wheel on a steep road climb.

I refuse to push myself to the point of throwing up. Lactic acid burn I can handle, but nausea just doesn't seem like much fun, you know? Hopefully I won't drop dead of a heart attack while climbing a hill, but if I do at least I died doing something I love.

I think we should have a BF hill climbing ride. You and one other poster mentioned riding with me if I came down to the Bay Area again.

I'm using the stock 20x1.75 Kenda Kontacts, which are a BMX tire. Maybe they're really grippy, as I've never spun the back wheel on a steep road climb.

I refuse to push myself to the point of throwing up. Lactic acid burn I can handle, but nausea just doesn't seem like much fun, you know? Hopefully I won't drop dead of a heart attack while climbing a hill, but if I do at least I died doing something I love.

I think we should have a BF hill climbing ride. You and one other poster mentioned riding with me if I came down to the Bay Area again.

That 'other' poster was SesameCrunch.. just so you know what you're looking forward to, here's a picture of the 3 of us .. Crunch on the left and Nigel on the right .. those guys have chain-breaker legs.. the guy in the middle, not so much..


http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x301/bmetras/Alex%20Moulton%20Bicycles/IMG_1559.jpg

Well, looks like there will be some people who get to the top of the climb first and can film my suffering! :lol:

Is SesameCrunch's bike a single-speed? If it is and he rode it up whatever climbs you guys rode that day, I'm impressed! :thumb:

Well, looks like there will be some people who get to the top of the climb first and can film my suffering! :lol:

Is SesameCrunch's bike a single-speed? If it is and he rode it up whatever climbs you guys rode that day, I'm impressed! :thumb:

Naw, he was cheating, he was riding a 2 speed Sachs duomatic .. :eek:

Naw, he was cheating, he was riding a 2 speed Sachs duomatic .. :eek:

Be careful, I'm checking in on this thread ...:notamused: :)

Alan aka Sasamecrunch has been recycling his bikes I don't know where he is up to but the bike above on the left was an ornament over his fire last I saw, the one on the right is sold.

wheel spinning, its a real problem, more so on wet and any debris. I'm standardizing on Schwalbe Marathon Plus, I know they're heavy but anything less has either exploded or given into punctures.

I think we should have a BF hill climbing ride. You and one other poster mentioned riding with me if I came down to the Bay Area again.

I think that would be fun! We would need to document it for sure.

Hmmm, I'll have to think about which bike to ride. Probably the Moulton. It's got a longer wheelbase for the steep inclines.

Brompton hill-climbing, there's a serious problem with bobbing, the long seatpost and the suspension block being the primary culprits. I'm pairing my Mountain Drive with all-steel parts, I have the newer stiffer suspension block. That then leads to a comfort issues on the flats/descents. To stop my fillings being shaken out, its new Ergon GP2 grips I ordered today and a old Brooks saddle initially the sacrifices to the comfort god. If its still too uncomfortable I can back off a little and swap to Ti seatpost, if that's still uncomfortable I can move to Ti forks, which is similar to what I had built about '08. Its probably going to take me til April to trial+error best hill-climbing Brompton.

The Brompton itself is NOT the best hill-climber, that's known.

The other issue is "what goes up must go down" - the brakes. The Brompton's brakes are ultimately what holds it back, the 16" wheels and rim brakes, I've had brake fading and having to waste drinking water or find a puddle to steam-cool the wheel. Only answers there are either front V-brakes so you can brake later and use air-braking before so there's less dumped into the wheel, or disc brakes, and coaster brake hub on the rear. A few have tried them in combination.

Alan aka Sasamecrunch has been recycling his bikes I don't know where he is up to but the bike above on the left was an ornament over his fire last I saw, the one on the right is sold.
.

Both of my bikes in that picture have found new homes. Good homes, though. I also sold my Strida and my superlight Fuji road bike. Had to finance my new recumbent habit. To wit:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/sesamecrunch/John%20Morciglio%20Hammerhead/9431776b.jpg

Both of my bikes in that picture have found new homes. Good homes, though. I also sold my Strida and my superlight Fuji road bike. Had to finance my new recumbent habit. To wit:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/sesamecrunch/John%20Morciglio%20Hammerhead/9431776b.jpg
I went the opposite direction. I sold this..
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/myez-tadcxonthebiketrail.jpg

..to buy this.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/hardmf1/BikeFridayPocketCompaniononPowersDrive.jpg

My recumbent was fun around corners due to the low center of gravity but it was too slow on flat ground and uphill. I also got tired of being so low to the ground and having dirt and grit thrown up at me by the back tire (rear fender started rubbing and there was no way to adjust it).

So that's 2 bikes you own in total? No folders? I'm at 4 bikes (3 Bromptons plus 1 roadbike) and looking to go possibly down to 3 (2 B + 1 road) within a year. My personal peak was 5 (3 Bromptons + 2 road bikes). I met a guy in March with 13 Bromptons.

That's my brand-new Bike Friday in the second picture. I also have a Dahon Speed D7 and a vintage 1982 Dahon Da Bike.

Here's (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/736846-What-happened-when-I-tried-to-climb-out-of-saddle-on-old-Dahon?highlight=) the thread I started in here with the pics and ride video from my ride up steep climbs with the single-speed Da Bike.

Here's (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/750275-Putting-my-Dahon-Speed-D7-to-the-test-in-the-mountains-%28pics-amp-video%29?highlight=) the thread I started in here with the pics and ride video from my mountain climbs on the Dahon Speed D7.

I own 10 bikes total-3 folders, 3 adult trikes, one normal road bike, one flat bar road bike, one old rigid Rockhopper, and one Trek 7000 WSD hybrid.

EDIT: Oops, you were probably talking to SesameCrunch. I got confused because your post was right after mine. Sorry about that! :o

:love: Is that a Cruzbike?

:love: Is that a Cruzbike?

No, it's a front wheel drive, moving bottom bracket recumbent, like a Cruzbike. But this one is custom made, all carbon fiber wonderbike. I have a Cruzbike Silvio also, and a Bacchetta Carbon Aero. My folderitis transformed into 'bentitis. :(

This bike rides like a dream. I'll have to pm you about it, as this is a folding bike forum...