Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Garmin on Sale Today - 1/2 off..Garmin Forerunner 405CX GPS

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0025UHKNS/ref=as_li_wdgt_fl_ex?&linkCode=waa&tag=uplanantiq-20

Hmmm. 20% of the reviews are 1 star. That's pretty high.

Not sure what the one-star reviews are expecting, but if it's even close to my Forerunner 410, it's a pretty cool piece of gear. I use mine for all my exercising -- biking, running, workout videos in my living room, etc. I can't swim worth a crap, so I didn't bother with the triathlon-friendly waterproof watches.

The only drawback I've had is that a roomful of WiFi gear can interfere with the signal from the HR strap. Other than that, it's been a lot of fun.

Bear in mind that GPS functionality - on all consumer grade L1 band receivers, may have some problems soon, if the rollout of the LightSquared wireless network goes forward.

The map display part of GPS units could still work, if you either input your coordinates yourself, or guess them from the map. Its just the location finding aspect of the GPS that might no longer be functional.

Many manufacturers are saying that for sums ranging upward from around $300, probably around $800 average, they could retrofit an SAW filter onto an existing receiver.

Its kind of a war of the wills out there. The two interest groups are rushing straight towards each other at 300 MPH in a big game of chicken with no resolution in sight.

Enjoy GPS in these next few weeks.

I wouldn't recommend buying any fitness or bicycle device from Garmin due to their poor, no, pathetic, documentation and tech support. If the device you get happens to work correctly and reliably out of the box and you have no need for any assistance from the company they are good. But, if you need help you are in for a frustrating experience, at least that is what has happened to me.

For example:
I bought a Forerunner 310XT that was delivered with the wrong manual on CD, at outdated OS and could not download from Garmin. It could upload data from the device to Garmin Connect but it could not download the OS update.

Multiple emails back and forth brought no resolution. First, it was: "You can't have version 3.8 it has to be 3.7 and you upload by ....." and gave me a quote from their web site, which did not work. Then, when I emailed I could upload but not download, one way communication, they told me to be sure the device was turned on, the computer was turned on and the device was connected to the computer. DUH I obviously have everything on or I couldn't upload! Then it was telling me to use wrong commands.

Finally, after exchanging many emails, I decided to sit in line for a voice. He told me he didn't really deal with this device very often but he would try. He assured me he was fully informed on the 310XT. After a bit of fussing with the problem he had me download an application that is for Wired/USB devices. I asked him why? He said although neither the web site nor the instructions say so that application has to be there for downloads.

There is still a problem which the tech support person could not solve. Two days ago he said he would find the answer and email or call me with it. As of this time he has done neither.

I could go on with a lot more detail. But, the bottom line is that Garmin has not adequately selected nor trained their people. Garmin has not kept their documentation up to date. Nor, have they made sure it is accurate.

Whether GPS is, or is not, going to be around in the future Garmin obviously does not respect their customers. That is enough to cause me to send the unit back and to recommend that others don't buy.

Bear in mind that GPS functionality - on all consumer grade L1 band receivers, may have some problems soon, if the rollout of the LightSquared wireless network goes forward.

The map display part of GPS units could still work, if you either input your coordinates yourself, or guess them from the map. Its just the location finding aspect of the GPS that might no longer be functional.

Many manufacturers are saying that for sums ranging upward from around $300, probably around $800 average, they could retrofit an SAW filter onto an existing receiver.

Its kind of a war of the wills out there. The two interest groups are rushing straight towards each other at 300 MPH in a big game of chicken with no resolution in sight.

Enjoy GPS in these next few weeks.

You know how in Star Trek episodes where Geordi says something highly technical and complicated about what's going to happen to the ship that can blow it up if they don't fix something right away, and Picard says, "What does that mean?", then Geordi explains it clearly enough for the TV audience to understand?

So -- what do you mean? ;) Will my smartphone's mapping application still work this summer?

The mapping application might work, but it might not be able to get the information it needs to tell you where you are inside the US. However, it might work well once you get more than a certain distance from these cell towers.

For example, for ocean navigation, you'll probably have no problem, once you are some distance from land.

I personally suspect that the vast majority of GPS units available in the US right now probably wont work and there won't be an upgrade path that makes sense.

But thats just what I think.

That may be why there are sales going on right now.

http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/signal-processing/lightsquared-jamming-report-11030

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2011/09/21/lightsquared-says-its-fixed-gps-issue.html

I have a Garmin PND.. But DONT blame Garmin, they are fighting this as is all the other US GPS companies. Obviously, other places are where the innovation is these days in GNSS. The US is being left behind, but they don't care. They prefer that.

There are a lot of GPS in the US. And Ive been involved in a GPS-related project, which may never be able to happen.

My wife and I also own a bunch of GPSs. Including two substantially more sensitive/flexible receivers than most. Ive been learning a lot of interesting stuff about GPS. Its a very good tool for math and physics education.

Everyone I know uses GPS. I wont be the only pissed off user!

If the FCC really does allow this, and the predictions of interference (extremely credible, basically, everyone agrees its going to be a huge problem..) prove to be true, I suppose we'll all be in shock how little the government (both "parties") care about us.

They do care about campaign donors.. I'm sure these corporations spent big bucks to lubricate their access.

Looks like LightSquared has a big uphill battle to fight before it will be approved.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-15/falcone-s-lightsquared-disrupts-plane-safety-gear-in-u-s-tests.html

I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over LightSquared...yet. The FCC has been effectively regulating the radio spectrum for some time now and does a pretty good job of getting it right. A bigger concern Garmin's "poor, no, pathetic, documentation and tech support." I certainly won't disagree with this. It's appalling actually. I've used their aviation, marine, and automotive units and those have been great, but their implementation and support on their cycling products is abysmal. Be that as it may, this deal on the 405CX looks pretty darn good and I think it'll probably do a good job for most users. It will take a GSC10 wheel and cadence sensor too, which I would recommend.

I don't think that the FCC has been doing a good job in a long time. Basically, the government looks at spectrum as a cash cow now. They pick corporate monopolistic solutions over intelligent ones because the politicians all get kickbacks (http://www.opensecrets.org/elections/index.php). Often millions of dollars apiece.

We can achieve nationwide broadband without monopolies right now using open hardware by using cognitive radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_radio) or ad-hoc mesh networking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking), (In ad-hoc mesh network (http://emergentbydesign.com/2011/02/11/16-projects-initiatives-building-ad-hoc-wireless-mesh-networks/)s, every node becomes both an access node and a relay station for other messages, which are encrypted) This kind of system, modeled after the fault tolerance designed into the Internet, allows an infinte number of channels to exist, (the more nodes, the more bandwidth) and is designed to stay up and usable under the harshest of conditions (there is no central network, and each client can help extend the net farther up a canyon, helping push further and faster bandwidth into a rural area.) CR typically uses spread spectrum - it jumps around adaptively to interference conditions, it works similarly to the way wi-fi works, which means it degrades gracefully.

Compare open to centralized networking systems - Open systems are designed to keep people connected even during emergencies, leveraging the nodes to also extend the network. That gives them independence from being cut off by income, or government fiat. Thats why ad-hoc mesh networking was used for the One laptop per child project..

The other is basically a "walled garden" primarily designed to extract rent from the populace, via an unnecessary, arbitrary insertion of a corporation into an interaction that technology has rendered no longer necessary.

Corporations typically try to buy off the constituencies that would be the most victimized by their monopoly with crumbs, but the price of embracing their monoculture is obscene cost increases with no light at the end of the tunnel. Eventually we'll end up back where we began, widespread debt slavery.

Haven't we learned that with the automobile/oil destroying the trolleys and commuter trains, and especially health insurance, half of the healthcare dollar now is dead weight, waste, the cost of the caste system, money down the drain. But we keep making the same mistakes, mistakes we cannot afford.

Thats what we get for embracing a private monopoly instead of a public, independent health care system. No cost control. It will be the same situation with this rural broadband monopoly.

Like the rest of today's government, increasingly, the FCC is "owned" by the corporate contributors. Both "parties" are guilty. They dont act in the public interest. Most Americans dont realize (because they buy cable TV) that 75% of the country can't get TV of any kind any more without cable or pay-TV satellite. The digital signals end at the first hill.

If jobs keep vanishing a lot of people are going to be unable to afford both broadband Internet and cable - which will mean no TV. None..

Maybe thats a good thing, I am sure many will say, but if you add that to the privatization of public education, it adds up to a marginalized underclass very quickly.




I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over LightSquared...yet. The FCC has been effectively regulating the radio spectrum for some time now and does a pretty good job of getting it right. A bigger concern Garmin's "poor, no, pathetic, documentation and tech support." I certainly won't disagree with this. It's appalling actually. I've used their aviation, marine, and automotive units and those have been great, but their implementation and support on their cycling products is abysmal. Be that as it may, this deal on the 405CX looks pretty darn good and I think it'll probably do a good job for most users. It will take a GSC10 wheel and cadence sensor too, which I would recommend.

HawkOwl, if there is still an issue you should download the free Wireshark from http://wireshark.org and run the capture on your ethernet or wifi connection. That way you can hopefully figure out what's happening in that interaction. Chances are there is an error message flying back and forth in there that could tell you what's not handshaking.


I wouldn't recommend buying any fitness or bicycle device from Garmin due to their poor, no, pathetic, documentation and tech support. If the device you get happens to work correctly and reliably out of the box and you have no need for any assistance from the company they are good. But, if you need help you are in for a frustrating experience, at least that is what has happened to me.

For example:
I bought a Forerunner 310XT that was delivered with the wrong manual on CD, at outdated OS and could not download from Garmin. It could upload data from the device to Garmin Connect but it could not download the OS update.

Multiple emails back and forth brought no resolution. First, it was: "You can't have version 3.8 it has to be 3.7 and you upload by ....." and gave me a quote from their web site, which did not work. Then, when I emailed I could upload but not download, one way communication, they told me to be sure the device was turned on, the computer was turned on and the device was connected to the computer. DUH I obviously have everything on or I couldn't upload! Then it was telling me to use wrong commands.

Finally, after exchanging many emails, I decided to sit in line for a voice. He told me he didn't really deal with this device very often but he would try. He assured me he was fully informed on the 310XT. After a bit of fussing with the problem he had me download an application that is for Wired/USB devices. I asked him why? He said although neither the web site nor the instructions say so that application has to be there for downloads.


Customer service is getting worse and worse in the US. Fast.

Its not just that they people you speak to are low paid employees who are unable to cope with the technical issues that come up. More and more companies are just giving the customer the run around and accountability is increasingly vanishing.

In this permissive environment even good companies are becoming crappy ones.

HawkOwl, if there is still an issue you should download the free Wireshark from http://wireshark.org and run the capture on your ethernet or wifi connection. That way you can hopefully figure out what's happening in that interaction. Chances are there is an error message flying back and forth in there that could tell you what's not handshaking.



Customer service is getting worse and worse in the US. Fast.

Its not just that they people you speak to are low paid employees who are unable to cope with the technical issues that come up. More and more companies are just giving the customer the run around and accountability is increasingly vanishing.

In this permissive environment even good companies are becoming crappy ones.

I guess it is a matter of one's sense of proper place and proper responsibility. My view is that it is the seller's responsibility to provide me with a functional product for the money I spend. In other words, it is Garmin's job to make sure the product they sell me does what they say it will. It is my job to pay the money we agreed on and to report to them any problems so they can solve them and provide what I paid for. It definitely is not my job to diagnose and repair their product.

Interestingly, the Garmin Ant Agent self-generated an error message with a "Send" "Don't Send" tab. I selected "Send". I received an email from Garmin asking several questions about symptoms, how often, hardware configuration, etc. I provided the information and referenced the case number of my email exchange with "Tech Support". I never heard from them again. Neither did "Tech Support" ever reference the error message or our exchange. Weird.

I already have put way too much time and effort into this ill fated project.



Side comment:
Given Garmin's poor performance the market must be very small and unprofitable or there would be competition from other manufacturers.