Classic & Vintage - My Voyaguer set sail for the last time; C&V Accident (pic's included)

It truly breaks my heart to have to post this thread and if anyone knows the pain I'm going through mourning for my bike, it's you good folks.

As some quick background, I purchased a gorgeous, well equipped 1991 Schwinn Voyageur roughly 7 months ago as my daily commuter for my 22 mile round trip to work and light weekend touring. I've spent nearly that entire amount of time upgrading and dialing the bike in to my body, my style of riding and my typical terrain. I was about 98% there.

Then, last week, on a dry but cold night, I was struck by a 2005 Nissan Sentra while I was on my bike. I was cut up pretty bad, my left shoulder is sore with soft tissue damage from hitting the car hood then the the asphalt, my left shin (inside and out) is swollen and bruised from the impact and I have some really cool crank marks cut into my right calf, but, I physically walked away from the accident. No broken bones, no separated shoulder, etc. I am very, very lucky.
I was also well lit, wearing a helmet and had just legally stopped and signaled at a stop sign. I made my turn and while in the middle of the intersection struck by a 73 year old woman (!) that later told me that she just didn't see me. She was at the same intersection, turning (toward me) and gunned it as I was in the middle of the intersection, hitting me at full force, without touching the brakes at below 15mph. It doesn't sound bad but the torque from the initial acceleration of the vehicle was pretty significant.

However, my bike was not so lucky. It gave up its steel frame for the greater good of my body by taking the brunt of the impact. For that, I thank it for the sacrifice.

Below, you will see images of the bike, just as it came off the asphalt. Pay special attention, as if it isn't glaringly obvious, to the frame, near the bottom bracket. Note the buckling of the frame and splintering of the paint. Also take note of the bow of the top tube. The crank is also a major impact area with it being bent so far that it doesn't even clear the rear chain stays. What a shame, but again, I am lucky to be here typing about it.

Obviously, my Voyageur is now wall art (which is what I plan to keep it for) but the bigger problem is now that I'm once again on the hunt for a solid touring rig that will fit my C&V mold/desires. So, if anyone out there has any leads on a well priced 57/58cm rig, please let me know.

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There's an '87 Voyageur, 58cm, posted in the C&V for sale sub forum.

Glad you're o.k.

First, glad you are OK.

As an avid motorcyclist, and a motorcycle safety trainer, I am really sick and tired of the "I did not see you" excuse. Guess what, almost everyone that pulls in front of a freekin train says: "I didn't see it", ditto 18 wheelers, or whatever. Its like that excuse gives them a free pass to run over bicyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or whatever.

I was rear ended on my motorcycle a couple of years ago, stopped at a red light, in the left turn only lane. This soccer mom on her cell phone, in her Chevy Suburban, pulls in directly behind me, and stops. So far, so good, right? Twenty seconds later, she slams into the back of my motorcycle (light was still red). Guess what was her excuse? " I didn't see you." I was livid. First thing I said was: "you saw me just fine, when you pulled in behind me and stopped twenty seconds ago". Her reply: "Oh yeah, I saw you THAT time...."

People are pretty worthless sometimes. Glad you're ok that's what really matters.

There's an '87 Voyageur, 58cm, posted in the C&V for sale sub forum.

Glad you're o.k.

The bike in the sales forum looks like just what the Dr ordered!

I also am glad you are ok!

Glad you are OK, that is the most important thing!

Glad you survived. I'm impressed with how well the bike took the hit. I was expecting worse. Score one for steel. Minus one for old ladies in Sentra's. Did she have insurance? I'm thinking an upgrade to a Rivendell is in order.

Glad you are OK.

I hope you've been to the Doc. If you haven't been, go anyway. I didn't have a choice when I got whacked but even though my injuries were all minor(tissue damage and gobs o' stitches), it took a good 3 years before I was a 100%.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I'd rather still have my old Mercier.

It sucks getting hit for sure, I got hit this last summer but got away with just a bruised knee and a tacoed front wheel.

At least you're allright, the bike can be replaced.

:(

Make that two voyageurs I'll be keeping my eye out for.

I wanted to post a thread similar to this the other day. I was riding downtown with traffic on a one-way street. As I approached an intersection where I had the right of way (not a four-way stop) a car pulled directly out in front of me (as if I did have a stop sign) and I did all I could to avoid a collision but plowed directly into his car. Tweaked the front fork and wheel, went flying into the side of the car, and up and over onto the hood/ceiling.

I'm still waiting to see what the settlement will be. No fun at all. I'm glad you're OK. The bikes can be replaced.

Score one for steel. Minus one for old ladies in Sentra's. Did she have insurance? I'm thinking an upgrade to a Rivendell is in order.

+1 A buddy of mine got hit last year. He has major tinnitus now and his Lotus was trashed, but at least he got a brand new, custom Mercian Vincitore out of it.

I've got this exact bike I picked up in 1992 on clearance from a shop and it is essentially NOS. It has less than 50 miles on it (probably less than 20!). If you're interested, pm me.

Thanks for the kind replies everyone. I knew I'd have a shoulder to cry on here, although my wife knows exactly what this bike means to me so she hears my gripes and understands (to an extent - haha!) too.


Glad you survived. I'm impressed with how well the bike took the hit. I was expecting worse. Score one for steel. Minus one for old ladies in Sentra's. Did she have insurance? I'm thinking an upgrade to a Rivendell is in order.
The woman who hit me is an employee with the County (not driving a county car though) and her insurance is loaded to the hilt. Lucky me!!
I went to the emergency room that evening although I didn't feel like I needed to go. I really only went to have the accident documented and in case anything else came up, I could go back to the doctor and be her insurance (although I also have insurance, but it wasn't my fault).

The bike shop I took my frame to for an insurance estimated quoted me $600~ to replace the frame and scavenge the remaining parts. Who knows what figure the insurance company will come back with. I have been revisiting my list of touring candidates that I tossed aside after I picked up the Voyageur months ago and although a Riv would be nice, it's probably not realistic for my budget :) however, Noah, I certainly will be PM'ing you on your Voyageur!
Also, Oregon Southpaw, my condolences on your accident. Two Oregon Voyageurs in one week? Sad, sad, sad...

Seems to me it's a total loss and the only comparable new bike is a surly LHT. I'd try another bike store.

Seems to me it's a total loss and the only comparable new bike is a surly LHT. I'd try another bike store.

+1, that's a low number to replace it with a comparable touring rig. Condolences on your loss, but glad you came out relatively ok.

I had someone turn in front of me and after the head on crash totaled my Cannondale T1. She had insurance and I think they were just glad that I was not injured and asking for a big settlement. I held firm and they came through with near new retail for the bike so I could replace it with the same bike.

I would be looking for a dollar amount that would cover a LHT or similar. Really that is what needs to happen to make you whole again, which is what she and her insurance owes you.


Thanks for the kind replies everyone. I knew I'd have a shoulder to cry on here, although my wife knows exactly what this bike means to me so she hears my gripes and understands (to an extent - haha!) too.


The woman who hit me is an employee with the County (not driving a county car though) and her insurance is loaded to the hilt. Lucky me!!
I went to the emergency room that evening although I didn't feel like I needed to go. I really only went to have the accident documented and in case anything else came up, I could go back to the doctor and be her insurance (although I also have insurance, but it wasn't my fault).

The bike shop I took my frame to for an insurance estimated quoted me $600~ to replace the frame and scavenge the remaining parts. Who knows what figure the insurance company will come back with. I have been revisiting my list of touring candidates that I tossed aside after I picked up the Voyageur months ago and although a Riv would be nice, it's probably not realistic for my budget :) however, Noah, I certainly will be PM'ing you on your Voyageur!
Also, Oregon Southpaw, my condolences on your accident. Two Oregon Voyageurs in one week? Sad, sad, sad...

Ouch! Glad you're okay.

That's gotta be the cleanest commuter I've ever seen. I'm only a weekend warrior and ride a small rotation of bikes, and most of them are dirtier than yours!

I'm glad you're OK, if not a little worse for the wear. Good luck with the insurance process and healing up. I was hit by a car this summer and it is a real pain in the ass! (and shoulders, etc).

I would be looking for a dollar amount that would cover a LHT or similar. Really that is what needs to happen to make you whole again, which is what she and her insurance owes you.
The more I keep hearing asking for a figure that would cover a LHT, the more I'm glad I haven't spoken to the insurance company and given them the estimate I received. I think it's a good idea to at least start there.


That's gotta be the cleanest commuter I've ever seen.
I work for a really small company and have the luxury of storing my bike in a nice, warm server closet when I get to work. Then, at lunch, I typically read/nap in the same room. Or use my paired down cleaning supplies/tools to adjust and clean her up for the ride home. That bike certainly had the good life!

The more I keep hearing asking for a figure that would cover a LHT, the more I'm glad I haven't spoken to the insurance company and given them the estimate I received. I think it's a good idea to at least start there.


I work for a really small company and have the luxury of storing my bike in a nice, warm server closet when I get to work. Then, at lunch, I typically read/nap in the same room. Or use my paired down cleaning supplies/tools to adjust and clean her up for the ride home. That bike certainly had the good life!

People suck. Glad you're okay.


Start high, ALWAYS. Every insurance company and adjuster is around to screw you as hard as possible. Even a fully speced C&V touring bike can be *well* above an LHT in replacement cost. Don't screw yourself. If you say $600, you'll never get more - they'll only go down from there if anything. I know if one of my two French tourers got totaled, the chainguards alone would be 1/5 a stock LHT to replace.

that totally sucks thin man..... that frame looked NOS...

I almost got hit on my second day out with my celeste bianchi that i had shipped in from california, cause of a guy that didn't see me in broad daylight. i just missed him. I would have probably strangled the mofo if i got hit and was able to get up and walk.

I feel your pain, the one thing that is good and bad about Classic road bike is that fact that to own a really nice one is such a joy, but replacing one is even harder. If i got hit while i was on a generic carbon bike with super record 11 or so, that could easily be replaced, but what are the chances of me finding another mint almost NOS celeste with C-record and deltas and blah blah blah it would just take too much time and you wouldn't know when it would be replaced, cause it would all depend on finding your sizing and whatnot.

well at least you still have your pinarello's to get around on :) imagine if you got hit on that, i know you probably love that schwinn but maybe it was probably not the worst bike you could have done it on?

anyways glad you're gravy and good to go...new bike searching time...

well at least you still have your pinarello's to get around on :) imagine if you got hit on that, i know you probably love that schwinn but maybe it was probably not the worst bike you could have done it on?
Ha, very true! I told my buddy that I got hit on my bike and he started groaning, "Awwwww man!! Not that red Italian bike of yours!!". He was happy to hear it's still sitting, covered, in the stable. However, as irony would have it, it's the only bike I have that is actually listed on my home insurance policy. If that thing goes, it's payday.

That could have been really bad, glad you came out "OK"! Get a lawyer....

Good to hear that you are functionally okay. I've still got discomfort from soft tissue damage below my rib cage from a wreck over 8 years ago when I was rear-ended by a pickup while on a motorcycle. I've got a full-on rant about the insurance company that I will spare you all from, just suffice it to say that the insurance adjuster will be looking at your bike as a 20+ year old Schwinn and will price it like a step-through Continental instead of true replacement value, just be ready for a battle. Documented medical injuries and pain and suffering is where your bikes true value will be found, that and in the fact of your obeying the traffic laws while cycling (be ready for that angle of attack from the adjuster's attorney as well) ((oops, a bit of the rant slipped in there, sorry)) .

Sorry about the bike though, looks like it was a nice one.

First, glad you are OK.

As an avid motorcyclist, and a motorcycle safety trainer, I am really sick and tired of the "I did not see you" excuse. Guess what, almost everyone that pulls in front of a freekin train says: "I didn't see it", ditto 18 wheelers, or whatever. Its like that excuse gives them a free pass to run over bicyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or whatever.

I was rear ended on my motorcycle a couple of years ago, stopped at a red light, in the left turn only lane. This soccer mom on her cell phone, in her Chevy Suburban, pulls in directly behind me, and stops. So far, so good, right? Twenty seconds later, she slams into the back of my motorcycle (light was still red). Guess what was her excuse? " I didn't see you." I was livid. First thing I said was: "you saw me just fine, when you pulled in behind me and stopped twenty seconds ago". Her reply: "Oh yeah, I saw you THAT time...."

Friend of a friend was killed waiting at a red light. Stopped in the lane. Guy came up behind, never even slowed for the red light.

I heard about this 7 years ago, still think about it every time I stop at an intersection...plan my bike placement accordingly.

Oh, and I use a helmet mounted mirror to keep an eye on overtaking traffic.

Stay safe out there!

Lee

I ran into someone who turned into my travel lane about 5 years ago. And he was a bicyclist who took the day off from biking :notamused:. I came out fine. Bike not so much. Certainly one of the
reasons I don't favor bikes in perfect condition.

Turning drivers just miss things. Glad you are mostly OK.

so glad hearing you're ok, first of all.
as living in the big city, such an accident is like all time fear.
got chill on my skin again remembering the moment when i skid and almost died avoiding a sudden opening of passenger window to the wrong side of street...
hope it heals soon, and you find a good replacement soon.

You can replace a bike. You can't replace yourself. Glad to hear you're ok.

as living in the big city, such an accident is like all time fear.
Thanks again everyone for all the well wishes.
You know, what's interesting is that being in an accident the way mine happened never frightened me before. What terrifies me is riding in a bike lane and having someone open up their door. Now that sounds like a horrible, terrifying accident to me. I'm always watching the tops of the driver side headrest and riding so that if they opened the door, I'd be safe, or at least able to react.

Glad you're alright. Hopefully you can get a replacement for the bike as good or better than the damaged frame. If the insurance company doesn't demand the old one, I'd hang the frame on the wall.

Make the insurance company offer first. If they hear $600 from you, they will either jump on it or lowball you more.

Make copies of high "sold" eBay auction prices for individual components used on your bike, plus a labor estimate from a local shop for assembly. That may add up to a lot more than a replacement bike. From my experience, the insurance company doesn't want your bike, you should be able to keep it if you ask as it has sentimental value.

Glad you are ok, sorry about the bike.

Got your pm about a replacement bike and checked this thread... the only reason I missed it must have been because I was pre-occupied with the holidays.

Will keep an eye out here as well and would say not to take any crap from that insurance company... besides the bike there are physical damages and the replacement on a nearly mint bike should be an equivalent new touring bike and those are going to come in at the $1500 - $2000 range if they are nicely equipped.

This is not to say that you can't take a reasonable settlement for replacement of your bike and other damages and then do as you wish, especially if you want another vintage touring bike.

Very sorry to read this ...

I'm very familiar with the almost exact situation you've found yourself. Maybe I can help.

A: you're bike is worth a LOT more than $600. You can't replace that quality frame for $600 bucks and the parts that were on the old bike are irrelevant to the replacement. You need to price out a total replacement. Find a shop that knows vintage and also knows about modern quality steel and quote a replacement in-line with a Rivendell etc. I got 3 quotes from 2 shops (1 shop did a custom build up and a full replacement of a speced stock Raleigh steel bike, averaged them ... and TOLD them what I had to have.

B: The insurance company will pay WAAAAY more than you think. They're used to dealing with expensive bikes, atvs, motorcycles etc and in my experience (StateFarm) they paid just shy of 3k to replace a touring rig, helmet, broken lights, battle damaged brooks etc. They didn't bat an eye. Just sent a check. It took less than a month. I sent them an itemized, with internet links, list of every part I would need to re-build that bike. A LHT is not a lugged steel touring bike. And will value much cheaper than a modern replacement of one.

NOTE: ColonelJ's comment about the Merican is fairly accurate. I took the insurance money and added $1k or so and built my dream bike.

C: Get a lawyer. I didn't listen to the people who told me that when I was hit and I regret it. The never-ending pain, suffereing, future medical coverage battle is not something a non-lawyer can handle. You don't have to find a shyster type lawyer but one that has some experience. It's not a lottery winning thing so much as making sure you're not out thousands getting fixed up. The system is set up for you to need a representative. I've been dealing with the physical health end of my accident for almost a year and a half now.

D: Wait and see how you feel in a month or two. Long term damage may not present itself for awhile ... or what you think my be a short-term, soon to heal thing, might not be.

In short. I was hit in the same circumstance. Riding, stopped at light, yielded and followed laws, got a green, proceeded to cross, got creamed by a 75 year old women in a Camry who "had the right of way" .... she ran the light waaaay after it changed. Bike was destroyed and since I hit the ground my left ear has been ringing. Which is like a constant reminder of being struck by a vehicle.

Hope you heal quickly.

Forgive my ignorance, since I've fortunately never had to deal with an insurance company over damage to a bike.

But what makes this a $1500 claim? I can see the bike shop appraiser's number - new frame, cranks, bb, pedals, wheel repair(?), maybe rear fender, and labor. But can you really make a $1500 claim on a 1990 Voyageur? And I ask this as an 85 Voyageur owner.

Because it's irreplaceable. Like a vintage car being destroyed. But cars are different because there are established book prices the insurance companies use. Bikes are off-book. Meaning, it's up to the victim to determine the worth of the bicycle.

If most modern bikes were steel lugged, you could argue a range of lower prices. But modernly, few lugged frames are produced, especially touring frames, and those that are very pricey. I speced my replacement based off of 100% of the same frame features ... which included various braze-ons, lugged steel, fenders, etc. ... including a custom paint job ... which the bike that I lost had. I priced out everything from cables and housings to brake pads and bar plugs ... and labor.

Glad that you are OK. I'm beginning to think that riding a bike is like the lottery, and I ride a least three times a week. Ride safe everybody.

I certainly don't want to devalue or in anyway diminish the beauty of the OP's bike. I just find it hard to believe a late 80s / early 90s Voyageur would be valued at $1500. Even if it was NOS. JMHO.

Hey everyone.

I would love to give an update on my situation since I last posted on this thread and since there has been a bit of a revival.

Since then, I have gone through the hoops of playing the insurance game and like others have said, the process entailed, essentially, a breakdown of what I had, what I felt it was worth (proving anything I could), then giving a number that I felt was fair. I did just that along with replacement costs for other items such as my racks, fenders, helmet and even my camera (which I always keep in my panniers) that was cracked open from the impact. This all was paid for, nearly, without a bat of an eyelash (probably because I was not at fault). I also was compensated for my time off work, pain and suffering and any medical coverage, which includes ongoing trips to a physical therapist for my shoulder which is still a little wonky. I even have the opportunity to make any medical claims for up to one year past the accident date. This is all 100% paid for.

So, I was compensated extremely generously, the woman’s insurance company was super friendly (State Farm) and easy to deal with and I have all medical now, and in the near future, taken care of. Plus, I got to keep my bike, which I have hung the frame, as a shrine, and salvaged almost all of the parts to either sell or build up my wife’s Univega Specialissima. What’s not to like? Well, I’ll tell you. As Oggypop said, that bike was irreplaceable. At the time I didn’t know it, but it was. I have been on the hunt for a vintage touring rig (mid-80’s to mid-90’s; 57cm/58cm) since November and it is not easy to find “the one”. Especially in an area of the country like Portland, which is priced high and nice bikes go FAST.

All in all, I’m happy with the outcome regarding the insurance particulars but I glance up at the hanging Voyageur every now and again and miss my long morning commutes. I’m certain I’ll eventually find a replacement and I’m lucky that the weather is still nasty so I’m not itching to ride too much, but, that is beginning to change with every day. So, wish me luck in my touring rig hunt and know that cash helps when replacing something but you can never buy the memories back.

The bike shop got your bike all wrong.....Wasn't it a De Rosa Titanio with C Delta/Century finshed Campy components??.......:rolleyes::D
Or wasn't it a Paramount with a 50 year Anniversary Campy group??:D:D



Glad you made it out of that accident mostly OK!
Hope you get a good set of wheels under you again soon!

Chombi

I have an 83 in that size if you are interested, we could chat. Complete sans a decent saddle, the stock racks, and wheels. Was going to be a winter project but another has taken more time than I planned, and I have no sentimental value in it. The paint is not as nice as yours was. But then again, I'm guessing you want to respray in some glow-in-the-dark color. :)

The bike shop got your bike all wrong.....Wasn't it a De Rosa Titanio with C Delta/Century finshed Campy components??.......:rolleyes::D
Or wasn't it a Paramount with a 50 year Anniversary Campy group??:D:D
Chombi

Actually, I informed the bike shop that it was my prized Colnago Arabesque. Haha! ;)

Beach Comber - I would be interested in having a peek at your '83. I'll PM ya.

Without hyjacking my own thread, does anyone else have other 57cm/58cm touring bikes collecting dust in the garage? My wish list essentially looks like this:
Centurion Pro Tour
Centurion Elite GT
Dawes Super Galaxy
Dawes Galaxy
Fuji Touring Series IV
Fuji Touring Series V
Koga-Miyata Traveller
Lotus Eclair Touring
Lotus Odyssey
Miyata 610
Miyata 1000
Nishiki Cresta GT
Nishiki Riviera GT
Panasonic PT-5000
Raleigh Portage
Schwinn Voyageur/Voyageur SP
Shogun 2000
Trek 620
Trek 720
Univega Specialisima

I'm glad this has been less painful than you imagined. I read this with horror back in December.

A Univega Gran Turismo would work, too. Depending on the year, it's like a Miyata 610 or 1000. For the Univega and the Miyatas, post-1984 is much better. I'm a fan of the late Voyageurs, as well.

First, glad you are OK.

As an avid motorcyclist, and a motorcycle safety trainer, I am really sick and tired of the "I did not see you" excuse. Guess what, almost everyone that pulls in front of a freekin train says: "I didn't see it", ditto 18 wheelers, or whatever. Its like that excuse gives them a free pass to run over bicyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or whatever.

I was rear ended on my motorcycle a couple of years ago, stopped at a red light, in the left turn only lane. This soccer mom on her cell phone, in her Chevy Suburban, pulls in directly behind me, and stops. So far, so good, right? Twenty seconds later, she slams into the back of my motorcycle (light was still red). Guess what was her excuse? " I didn't see you." I was livid. First thing I said was: "you saw me just fine, when you pulled in behind me and stopped twenty seconds ago". Her reply: "Oh yeah, I saw you THAT time...."

They'll see you just fine in the courtroom...

Glad there's not another ghost bike out there.

Where did the accident happen?

Your story reminded me of something. When riding the motorized two wheeler, I make sure to be in a low gear while crossing intersections, so that I can accelerate away. On the pedalized two-wheeler, I do not do this. But from now on, I will. Might not have helped this time but might help another time.

Glad there's not another ghost bike out there.

Where did the accident happen?
Yikes! That freaks me out to know how close I was to ghost bike status.

I was hit at the four way stop sign intersection at N. Schmeer Rd & NE Vancouver Way, just a few hundred feet from the newly updated bridge (which is a pleasure to ride over).

Although the Vancouver Ave bridge is complete, I believe there is (obviously) still some work to do within the surrounding area in order to tie the entire project together.