Fifty Plus (50+) - And another thing.....wheels

Couple people responding to my last post got me thinking about wheels.

Is there a wheels for dummies somewhere on BF? Too many unfamilar terms. I'd like to be able to understand what's being discussed.

You'll probably be better off asking a more specific question.

Do it quickly because some of that technology is changing faster than my ability to understand and figure out how to explain it.

Google "Sheldon Brown, wheels".

In fact, when in doubt google "Sheldon Brown, anything about bicycles".

You will find that some of us have a fetish for wheels and I am of those throwing a bit of "Worry" your way.

Standard stock wheels that come with a new bike are normally one of the "Downgrades" that manufacturers make to keep a bike to a price level--Unless you are buying near the top of the range where good will come as standard. Those stock wheels are perfectly good but in some circumstances "CAN" be improved on. They may not be the best type for a Clyde and you could think you are bordering on that level. They may not be built strong enough and tend to go out of true under the weight or even start breaking spokes due to inferior build and quality. Besides this--They may have a "Bling" quality built into them with fancy spoke patterns or fewer spokes and have an inherent fault with them. Don't get too hung up on standard wheels though- unless you run into problems- as most of them are adequate for the job.

However- the best improvement- and possibly the cheapest for improvement- is fitting some decent wheels. They come in all types and prices and for different uses. You can spend a fortune on a lightweight set of wheels made of fancy materials that will not give YOU an improvement and will possibly not be good enough for your use. There are plenty of manufacturers out there and Although I may like a particular make and model of a wheel- it may not suit you.

There is a wheel that is accepted as a good standard for a good wheel and that is a hand-built wheel from a specialist wheel-builder. Plenty of them about and there is a standard of wheel that is accepted as being good. Starting off with the hub and a Shimano hub-Either Ultegra or 105-will be a good basis. Spokes are normally from a good manufacturer and the rim is normally a "Mavic" Pro or Open Pro model. Using these parts you will have a known quality of wheel that performs and is reliable. Perhaps not the lightest around but a good compromise.

Lots more to learn on wheels and everyone has their own views and opinions but hopefully you now have an insight into where your money will be going in a year or so. Plenty of learn on terminology but all you have to do is ask here and you will get an answer. Maybe not the right one but it will get answered. But still a question to you

What Pie?--You will learn about that one soon enough.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/

You will find that some of us have a fetish for wheels..........................

Then let me ask this of those who are knowledgeable........opinions about Easton Orion II's? These are the wheels that came with my Masi Gran Criterium S. I know little about the various wheels out there these days. FWIW, they are used for fitness on a 17 lb. bike and I weigh 180-185 in season. TIA

They're fine wheels. I have a set of Eastons that came on my Cervelo R3 over 5 years ago. They have been my main set of training wheels (until I got a PowerTap rear a few years back, but I still use the front Easton) I've had to have a couple bearings replaced and true the rear a couple times but that's it. That's good for me- I ride a lot and I kill rear wheels. It's normal for me to rebuilt a rear wheel every year (it was even less when I was using Open Pro rims- they suck) and retrue every month or two.

The problem with the Eastons is that they use proprietary spokes that thread into the hubs. If you break one you can't just go to the LBS and get a replacement, and if they break at the wrong place it can be difficult to get the spoke end out of the hub.


The "cheap" wheels that come with good bikes aren't bad wheels, they're just heavy and/or not as aerodynamic as expensive wheels. But they make perfectly fine training wheels, and if you are not racing you don't need expensive racing wheels.

Couple people responding to my last post got me thinking about wheels.

Is there a wheels for dummies somewhere on BF? Too many unfamilar terms. I'd like to be able to understand what's being discussed.

Your over thinking it, bikes come with wheels, if they fail, then replace them with something that fits your needs better.

They're fine wheels. I have a set of Eastons that came on my Cervelo R3 over 5 years ago.............

My Eastons came with the bike when I got it five yrs. ago. I've never had to rebuild them and have trued them about once a yr. I don't really keep track of my annual mileage but I'd guess an average year is 1500 miles. I spend a fair amount of time on my Ducati and that keeps me off the Masi.

Do it quickly because some of that technology is changing faster than my ability to understand and figure out how to explain it.
Boy oh boy that is true.

My Eastons came with the bike when I got it five yrs. ago. I've never had to rebuild them and have trued them about once a yr. I don't really keep track of my annual mileage but I'd guess an average year is 1500 miles. I spend a fair amount of time on my Ducati and that keeps me off the Masi.

The Ducati motorcycles are excellent bikes. I see them going up Angeles Crest Highway on weekends. This post says a lot about each persons interests and about wants and needs.

Saw a set of ZIPP wheels for sale on CL. Seller said 'he couldn't control them'. Any idea what he means?

Saw a set of ZIPP wheels for sale on CL. Seller said 'he couldn't control them'. Any idea what he means?

Deep section aero wheels catch side winds. In my experience it's usually no big deal except when riding no hands, but there's been a few times on mountain descents where I've been blown around quite a bit.

My Eastons came with the bike when I got it five yrs. ago. I've never had to rebuild them and have trued them about once a yr. I don't really keep track of my annual mileage but I'd guess an average year is 1500 miles. I spend a fair amount of time on my Ducati and that keeps me off the Masi.

Ducati? If it doesn't have pedals, it's not a bike:D. A lot of the motorcycles I see around here, are more like cars with a couple of wheels missing, then bicycles with motors.

Your over thinking it, bikes come with wheels, if they fail, then replace them with something that fits your needs better.

Its easy to get caught up in the "this is better" syndrome. Just ride and when and if it breaks replace it then.

My view of wheels that come with the bike is to ride them until they need to be replaced. After doing so I have a much better idea of what I liked and didn't like about them. It makes talking with knowledge people in a shop much easier when I can say things like, "The wheels I have now seem harsh." Or, "These wheels seem to flex too much when climbing." Or, "These wheels keep going out of true and I keep breaking spokes." With that said, as your riding gets more specialized the wheel choice does indeed become more important. But, for right now, I'm with Wogster. Ride what's on it.

You'll probably be better off asking a more specific question.

Do it quickly because some of that technology is changing faster than my ability to understand and figure out how to explain it.

Okay, aluminum or carbon, clincher or tubular (dude)?

Actually, looking for a glossary that tells what those terms are and the differences. But those would be the questions of the day.
Interested in wheels for a road bike, not MTB.

Okay, aluminum or carbon, clincher or tubular (dude)?

Actually, looking for a glossary that tells what those terms are and the differences. But those would be the questions of the day.
Interested in wheels for a road bike, not MTB.

Clinchers are the tires most of us use, the tires have the tube that comes out. Tubulars have the tube sewn into the tire and have to be glued to the wheel. They are not interchangeable.
Tubulars are a pain if you get a flat, you have to carry a spare tire and peel the flat one off.
Most bicycle wheels are aluminum but more and more carbon rims are becoming available. Some of the lightest wheels on the market, and most expensive, are carbon tubulars.

230293
Ducati? If it doesn't have pedals, it's not a bike:D. A lot of the motorcycles I see around here, are more like cars with a couple of wheels missing, then bicycles with motors.

When I'm on a motorcycle I'm a "biker." When on the Masi a "cyclist." But, when I'm on the Ducati I'm a "Ducatista." :) In May of '10 I did a 1,000 mi. day on the Duc after a rally in TN. Funny thing...I just realized that both the Ducati and the Masi are a gun metal grey with red wheels/tires. Strange 'cause I'm not really partial to that color scheme. Hmm. (attached pic is before I ended up with the red stripe tires.)

Here is a link to the major topics at Sheldon Brown's site. these are just the highlights, you should just mark his home page and have all of his wisdom available to you.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/253025-sheldonbrown.com-shortcuts

http://sheldonbrown.com/home.html

Hope these links helps some, I depend on them and my Lennard Zinn's Zinn and theAart of Road Bike Maintenance and his Zinn' s Bicycling Primer, for information on bicycles. Also get a Park's Big Blue Book


Bill

I spend a fair amount of time on my Ducati and that keeps me off the Masi.

I had the opposite problem this year, I put more miles on my Wilier than on my Ducati, don't know if that's good or bad.....:)

I had the opposite problem this year, I put more miles on my Wilier than on my Ducati, don't know if that's good or bad.....:)

Good.

Here is a link to the major topics at Sheldon Brown's site. these are just the highlights, you should just mark his home page and have all of his wisdom available to you.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/253025-sheldonbrown.com-shortcuts

http://sheldonbrown.com/home.html

Hope these links helps some, I depend on them and my Lennard Zinn's Road Bike Maintenance and his Zen of Bicycle Maintenance, for information on bicycles.


Bill

Thanks for the links, Bill.
I keep forgetting about Sheldon's website (I know blasphemy!).

Just remember "cartridge bearing hubs" when thinking about any new wheels. bk

Thanks for the links, Bill.
I keep forgetting about Sheldon's website (I know blasphemy!).

I know there's a lot of information there but Sheldon's been gone for 4 years now and a lot has happened in 4 years.

Most bicycle wheels are aluminum but more and more carbon rims are becoming available. Some of the lightest wheels on the market, and most expensive, are carbon tubulars.

The downside of carbon is they require special brake pads and don't stop as well as aluminum, especially when wet. Another issue is carbon overheats on some of the smaller wheel manufacturers although the big companies like Zipp seem to have overcome that issue now.

The "cheap" wheels that come with good bikes aren't bad wheels, they're just heavy and/or not as aerodynamic as expensive wheels. But they make perfectly fine training wheels, and if you are not racing you don't need expensive racing wheels.

Sadly, this hasn't been my experience. My Madone 5.2 came with Bontrager Race wheels.

1. "Race" is a misnomer, as they are really heavy, and not the least bit aero.
2. They have been trued up 3 times, but finally held true.
3. I experienced 2 catstrophic blowouts, where the tire bead came off the rim, and I had to bring the bike to a stop from moderately high speed while sliding the rim on the pavement. Looking for clues, I believe the root cause is a sloppy weld. At the weld joint, there is no lip to hold the tire bead.

It is travesty that the manufacturers put crappy wheels on good bikes. I believe it is to push post-sale upgrades, as well as to boost the initial margin on the bike sale.

Clinchers are the tires most of us use, the tires have the tube that comes out. Tubulars have the tube sewn into the tire and have to be glued to the wheel. They are not interchangeable.
Tubulars are a pain if you get a flat, you have to carry a spare tire and peel the flat one off.

Or carry sealant and CO2. I haven't yet had the 'opportunity' to see how well this works. My one tubular flat so far was a "garage flat", the day after a long ride out into the boonies. I somehow got some good karma.


Some of the lightest wheels on the market, and most expensive, are carbon tubulars.

The lightest are carbon tubulars. The most expensive are carbon clinchers. I now have a set of each, as I replaced the stock wheels (that gave out) with a set of carbon clinchers I got used from someone advertising on a forum: Bont Race XXX lites. The ones I got (a friend saw them advertised on the roadbikereview forum) have only a few hundred miles, ridden by a 135# rider, and I got them for less than half retail - roughly what one would pay for new carbon clinchers from the smaller manufacturers.

I went with carbon clinchers when I had to replace the stock wheels because (a) I wanted light weight, (b) I wanted clinchers for training because you get flats a lot where I ride, and (c) I didn't want to swap brake pads when I swapped wheels. With both sets being carbon, I can use the same pads, though I'll likely have to adjust them each time, which is also a pain, just not quite as big a pain.

It takes me more time to adjust brake pad holder position right than it does to change pads. I set up my brakes so they work on all my wheels then just change pads when I switch to or from carbon.

I know there's a lot of information there but Sheldon's been gone for 4 years now and a lot has happened in 4 years.

5 Years ago and I was thinking some of Sheldon's views needed updating but the basics are there and they will not change much.

I have always used the original wheels on my bikes to get used to the bike- but with my wheel fetish-I have several sets of good wheels that I prefer to use. However good wheels cost money and the originals did not- they came with the bike. Come the foul winter weather and I Use those original wheels. Saves the crud of a harsh winter wearing out the good ones.

It takes me more time to adjust brake pad holder position right than it does to change pads. I set up my brakes so they work on all my wheels then just change pads when I switch to or from carbon.

I'm hoping the new wheels match up close enough to my tubulars that I won't have to adjust the pad holder position, especially now that I use just a smidgeon of toe-in with the carbon tubulars so they don't groan and are less grabby. I stick a doubled up business card under the front of the pad as I set it. We'll see how they match tonight when I swap them. If they do match up pads-wise, I'm sure Karma will dictate that my RD indexing be wildly different. There is a reason a lot of folks stick to one set for both training and racing.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a match! No pad holder adjustment needed when switching from the Zipp tubulares to the Bont carbon clinchers, nor any shifter indexing adjustment. Woohoo... all I need to adjust is the barrel adjuster on the brakes, as the clinchers are narrower than the tubulars. The wheels ride great, too. I'm a happy camper. In case it's helpful to the OP, my wheel experiences thus far:

Torelli Bormio alloy clinchers: They've been solid, provide a smooth ride, and I rode them as I went from 225# to 193#.
Bontrager "Race" alloy clinchers: catastrophic failures.
Zipp 404 Firecrest tubulars: Fast, handle well, and you feel every irregularity in the road, especially if you pump them up to 130psi for minimal resistance.
Bontrager Race XXX Lites (the pornstar wheels): So far, so good. Very light, with a ride in between the Zipps and the Torellis.

^^ Great news Az, hoped it would work out for you.

Stap, I agree on Sheldon's site and time slipping away. However as you noted the Basics are in there and so much information we still use like the torque value tables and such. I just got an old edition of Eugene Sloan's " Complete book of Bicycling" it is dated but it brings back so many good memories of the 70's and learning the basics of bicycle mechanics.

My experience is the two best bang for the bucks upgrades you can make are new, high end tires and replacing the wheel set. Now this isn't for everyone, but I upgraded with used wheels. I picked up Mavic Ksyrium SSC, SL wheelset with scalloped rims for $200 for my main rider and picked up an older set of Ksyrium SSCs with the older design rim for $140 for my backup rider. It's not uncommon to find yesterday's $1000 wheelset selling for way less than 1/3 their MSRP and still in good condition.

What about the Ritchey wheels? I saw some decent prices, on ebay, for sets of these wheelsets and I am tempted to look into them. Anybody tried them for either clincher or tubular?

Bill