Advocacy & Safety - Closed minded family members...

...(or people in general, for that matter)...:notamused:
So my niece had a bout with postpartum eclampsia and had her drivers license taken by her doctor for 6 months (that was one month ago). I suggested to her on Facebook to get a bicycle. My oldest brother offers his sarcastic comment with, "Yep, just load up 3 kids and go to town." So I counter by posting several pics from Google Images of bikes pulling different configurations for hauling kids. I guess my brother didn't want to argue because he didn't post anything else, but I know he didn't even have a split-second change of opinion. All of my extended family, except for another neice that lives in the Seattle area, is completely car-centric. :(

...(or people in general, for that matter)...:notamused:
So my niece had a bout with postpartum eclampsia and had her drivers license taken by her doctor for 6 months (that was one month ago). I suggested to her on Facebook to get a bicycle. My oldest brother offers his sarcastic comment with, "Yep, just load up 3 kids and go to town." So I counter by posting several pics from Google Images of bikes pulling different configurations for hauling kids. I guess my brother didn't want to argue because he didn't post anything else, but I know he didn't even have a split-second change of opinion. All of my extended family, except for another neice that lives in the Seattle area, is completely car-centric. :(

My family is the same way.

My sister's husband (who has MAJOR respect for what I do, since I am basically supporting the family) has only recently started holding back his opinion about me being a car-lite bike commuter. He thinks I need to "grow up and get a car".

I've given up on 'converting' anyone else to a more bike-involved lifestyle; if they want to die young because they sat on their fat asses in a car, then that's fewer people on the road next year for me to have to be concerned with. If looking, acting, and having the capabilities of someone 10 years younger than I am (soon to be 53) isn't enough to give them a hint, then they're beyond redemption.

OP, your family's response is not a surprise; ANYTHING that hints at physical effort is considered by the mainstream to be demeaning (unless they pay for, and drive to, a facility for the purpose). I can't figure out why folks don't get the clue that the human body is NOT meant to sit for 12+ hours a day -- if it was, would they have the health problems they do?

My sister's husband (who has MAJOR respect for what I do, since I am basically supporting the family) has only recently started holding back his opinion about me being a car-lite bike commuter. He thinks I need to "grow up and get a car".

I've given up on 'converting' anyone else to a more bike-involved lifestyle; if they want to die young because they sat on their fat asses in a car, then that's fewer people on the road next year for me to have to be concerned with. If looking, acting, and having the capabilities of someone 10 years younger than I am (soon to be 53) isn't enough to give them a hint, then they're beyond redemption.

OP, your family's response is not a surprise; ANYTHING that hints at physical effort is considered by the mainstream to be demeaning (unless they pay for, and drive to, a facility for the purpose). I can't figure out why folks don't get the clue that the human body is NOT meant to sit for 12+ hours a day -- if it was, would they have the health problems they do?

Well said, DX-Man. I've got two morbidly obese sisters that feel I'm an idiot for biking on the road, jeapordizing my life. One of them "doesn't believe in sweating." The other stays busy but puts 20K miles on her car yearly--even though she doesn't work. She doesn't get it that her lifestyle, typical of upscale suburbanites with kids, is doing her in.

Not family, but almost all of my close friends think I am nuts for cycling on roads. They golf, but rent carts, so they really dont get any real exercise at all. What is funny is the fact I ride recumbents, and we are pictured as fat old guys with beards with huge bellies. Looking at me with a flat belly and my golfing friends with huge bay windows it is kind of a hoot.

I've given up on 'converting' anyone else to a more bike-involved lifestyle.....

I too have tested the waters in trying to get family members and co-workers to walk or ride a bicycle more, but I have since pulled back after seeing how entrenched physically/ideologically that they've become to automobile usage, and I now just concentrate solely on my own lifestyle in reducing the use of an automobile.

I am a Marxist in regards to this issue (Groucho Marxist, that is)- "Time wounds all heels."

I've been riding around on a bicycle going every where since I was about 16. My truck driving, beer bellied cousins and uncles used to mock me for it. I've been married 25 years and my wife's SUV driving, pick up driving family members used to laugh when I'd ride 90 miles to a family picnic, swim across the lake, play volleyball with their kids, eat as many burgers and dogs as I wanted and not get fat and ride back the next day. So much eye rolling, smirking and, for the most part, good natured teasing that I kind of miss it now.

Give it 25- 40+ years and they, your peers and elders, will have had so many debilitating health issues due to inactivity that many will either be dead or chronically ill and their kids will be obese and slow and wondering how the same guy is riding 90 miles to a family picnic, swimming across the lake and playing volleyball with their kids they way he did with them.

It will finally be your turn to laugh and the sad thing is you probably won't find too much to laugh about.

...I can't figure out why folks don't get the clue that the human body is NOT meant to sit for 12+ hours a day -- if it was, would they have the health problems they do?
+100. Well said. Many years ago I attended a lecture on stress by a psychiatrist who said the most potent stressor in animals is restraint. Is there any more effective restraint in modern life than to be immobilized in a car, often with no easy possibility of escape? And then to undergo this restraint everyday to get to work and run errands, and often longer on “vacations.” I have often thought this is a major contributor to bad health, just as is the concomitant lack of exercise, and maybe a major factor in road rage.

Why do you think we call them cagers?

Interesting. Most of my family members see how much I enjoy it, plus how much my fitness is improving, and say they really need to get on a bike themselves, but never do. One daughter likes to ride with me, and I'm working on the other daughter and the wife. Don't have any real influence with anyone else, though. One SIL is at least 500 pounds if she's an ounce, and watching her struggle and wheeze to do easy, common tasks has been motivating to me in my own efforts. (The thought of dying slowly that way scares the c**p out of me!)

Not an issue for me as my baby sister(56) is a runner and both of my brothers do at least a nominal type of work out. In my family, aside from politics upon which we agree to disagree, we've always had a "live and let live" attitude.

Not an issue for me as my baby sister(56) is a runner and both of my brothers do at least a nominal type of work out. In my family, aside from politics upon which we agree to disagree, we've always had a "live and let live" attitude.

That is sad.

I either get indifference or admiration. I suppose there are a few h8ters, but I just filter them out. I only started riding again in 2008, so I understand the closed-mindedness of car drivers. I even slip back into it myself now and again. Cycling has been a time drain that has kept me from doing certain other things that I should have been doing, so I've been taking some time away from the bike to get caught up, using the holidays as the urgent excuse to get some home remodeling projects wrapped up. I had to pick up some Liquid Nails at the hardware store last night and drove the measly two miles to the store. Meh. I just want to get this project done. Eventually we'll sell this house and move into a more bike friendly part of town and it'll be easier to ride more, and then I can get all uppity about riding again.

As for family and friends, health decisions are their own business. I'm not gonna tell them to stop smoking, stop drinking, stop sitting around all the time, or stop driving. They have their own choices to make, and until they decide for themselves to make a positive change in their health habits, no amount of preaching or example setting on my part is going ot change them.

Interesting. Most of my family members see how much I enjoy it, plus how much my fitness is improving, and say they really need to get on a bike themselves, but never do. One daughter likes to ride with me, and I'm working on the other daughter and the wife. Don't have any real influence with anyone else, though. One SIL is at least 500 pounds if she's an ounce, and watching her struggle and wheeze to do easy, common tasks has been motivating to me in my own efforts. (The thought of dying slowly that way scares the c**p out of me!)

Your SIL being at least 500pds., reminded me of my ex-wife. Back in the early 1990's, I got a 'family' membership to the local YMCA. I used it a lot. But I was hoping my (ex)wife would use it. In the late 1980's when we were dating, she was 5'2" 180pds.. Ten years later, in the late 1990's after we had married and separated(not divorced at that point), she was still 5'2" but, her weight had ballooned to 220pds.. She refused to use the 'family' membership. Now, In a sense, she is paying for it with reduced heart function. She never wanted to exercise.

I'm gonna tell them to stop smoking, stop drinking, stop sitting around all the time, or stop driving. They have their own choices to make, and until they decide for themselves to make a positive change in their health habits, no amount of preaching or example setting on my part is going ot change them.

This reminded me of my late paternal grandmother, aunt n' two of her daughters. My paternal grandmother was a lifelong smoker and died from a heart attack at 59 shortly before her 60th birthday, thirty-eight years ago. My aunt who is 66 and had a stroke earlier this year picked it up from my grandmother. She has been smoking since she was a teenager. Then for some awful excuse of a reason, her two younger daughters started smoking in their teens or 20's. I tried to convince them to stop, but they refused. I wonder why, what happened to our grandmother(and now what happened to my aunt) has had no effect on whether or not they would smoke.

Actually, I meant to type "I'm not gonna..." I changed it in the original post.

We have an advantage, however. Most, if not all of us here, have found an exercise that we truly enjoy doing. Fun is a huge motivator and most of us don't perceive it as a chore. In fact, when I ride regularly, my body craves getting out on the bike.

I will admit that going to the gym to work on my upper body is not a fun pastime like riding my bike is. Though I don't hate it either. At the gym I will put on my headphones and listen to a comedy channel on Pandora. I'm grinning at the jokes and the guy who works there thinks I'm just enjoying the heck out of my workout.

Most of my family is very supportive of my bicycling addiction.. guess I'm lucky in that sense. There's a few I know that aren't, but they don't vocalize or type it which is good. What you have to remember is that most people have drank the kool-aid and believe cars are the only real form of transportation. But my sympathies with the situation.

I will admit that going to the gym to work on my upper body is not a fun pastime like riding my bike is.

You should get a handcycle. They're meant to be great for an upper body workout and can get you from A to B while doing it.

Back to OP: I'm an avid cyclist since the early 70s and have always used the bike for commuting, errands and other transportation whenever it's practical.

But to a person who has 3 kids and isn't a cyclist and has never in the past used a bicycle for real transportation, your suggestion, frankly, is so far from being practical and helpful, it's worthless. I do understand the reply you got.

Seriously, you really thought that it was helpful to suggest this to her and that it would be a useful, practical suggestion? I don't know the woman's lifestyle, but as a parent, where I live, it would have been impossible to get to day care, work, do shopping, sports, music, etc. with my kids using a bike. The people you hold as examples doing this most likely live in places where the distances are practical, the infrastructure or general culture is bike friendly, AND they probably grew up with and are surrounded by this sort of lifestyle.

Just throwing out thoughts and ideas is not being helpful. You gotta try to look a few steps up the line and think about whether it can actually work by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not saying that people don't have very biased and stupid attitudes towards sport or transportation cycling. - screw 'em, they're idiots. But that really has nothing to do with the value of such a suggestion in this particular case.

Just MHO of course.

it's not closed mindedness, it's helplessness.

Americans, by and large, are helplessly beholden to the automobile.

A "virtuous" family member that bikes isn't going to change the average americans addiction to the automobile.

What helps encourage more americans to ride bikes? Making communities more amenable to bicycling.

I can understand the motivations of the OP. I have an uncle who had a massive stroke. He's been showing amazing recovery progress, including a lot of riding an exercise bike. I just smiled and said, "Great to see you on a bike!". I'm hoping to avoid the same problems by staying on my bike before I get there.

I do agree with what Camilo said too, it might be nearly impossible for a family with three kids to cut cars cold turkey and switch to bikes. But the niece also doesn't have a choice in this situation. No license, so it's either public transit, walking, or biking, or begging friends for rides. She doesn't need to bring the kids everywhere, so biking at least can fill some of those needs, I don't think the suggestion was that ridiculous or out of line.

What helps encourage more americans to ride bikes? Making communities more amenable to bicycling.
...And making the price for driving reflect the actual cost.

...And making the price for driving reflect the actual cost.

Yes and yes.

too many people continue to drive even after their drivers licenses get suspended. and I've read it's estimated fully a third of drivers are uninsured.

I talked to a vietnam vet at the credit union today, he was admiring my bike (!) (Surly Crosscheck, dutch style & all kitted out)

When i suggested he could get one as well, he volunteered he had a pacemaker and 30 percent heart function. I told him to keep his spirits up. I felt bad for the man. It was too late for him, i think, to even consider riding a bike anymore. Sad.

This niece lives in a fairly small, very flat town where the grocery store and other conveniences are maybe 2 miles away. She doesn't take the 2 little ones to day care (oldest in in 5th grade), and her husband still drives and is home every evening and weekends. They are not car-free. There's also other family members nearby to help out when taking the kids along is necessary.
My suggestion to get a bike was because she could indeed use it for short errands around town. My brother's comment was an automatic dismissal of the use of a bicycle.

Back to OP: I'm an avid cyclist since the early 70s and have always used the bike for commuting, errands and other transportation whenever it's practical.

But to a person who has 3 kids and isn't a cyclist and has never in the past used a bicycle for real transportation, your suggestion, frankly, is so far from being practical and helpful, it's worthless. I do understand the reply you got.

Seriously, you really thought that it was helpful to suggest this to her and that it would be a useful, practical suggestion? I don't know the woman's lifestyle, but as a parent, where I live, it would have been impossible to get to day care, work, do shopping, sports, music, etc. with my kids using a bike. The people you hold as examples doing this most likely live in places where the distances are practical, the infrastructure or general culture is bike friendly, AND they probably grew up with and are surrounded by this sort of lifestyle.

Just throwing out thoughts and ideas is not being helpful. You gotta try to look a few steps up the line and think about whether it can actually work by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not saying that people don't have very biased and stupid attitudes towards sport or transportation cycling. - screw 'em, they're idiots. But that really has nothing to do with the value of such a suggestion in this particular case.

Just MHO of course.Would your recommendation then be for her to just go ahead and drive without the license?

Maybe your suggestion would be to use cabs to get everywhere.

Would the bus for all transport be better?

Man, I feel pretty lucky. I'm from a blue collar family (first gen college student and all that good stuff, working full time and attending school part time til I pay off loans). Recently I was hit by a car. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a bad accident. My front wheel was totaled, but my frame and I came out okay. I was reluctant to tell my parents because I figured safety concerns would prompt them to suggest I buy a bus pas. They found out via facebook and my sisters, and called to rage about the driver and offer to help me buy a new wheel set because "your bike is basically your car." I guess that sounds lame on paper, but for my parents to scrounge up $150 to help me buy a wheel set and recognize that its a valid form of transportation is a pretty big deal.

If I could somehow convince them that in the 1mi x 1 mi community they live in a car is largely unnecessary, that would be a real victory. Baby steps =).

Man, I feel pretty lucky. I'm from a blue collar family (first gen college student and all that good stuff, working full time and attending school part time til I pay off loans). Recently I was hit by a car. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a bad accident. My front wheel was totaled, but my frame and I came out okay. I was reluctant to tell my parents because I figured safety concerns would prompt them to suggest I buy a bus pas. They found out via facebook and my sisters, and called to rage about the driver and offer to help me buy a new wheel set because "your bike is basically your car." I guess that sounds lame on paper, but for my parents to scrounge up $150 to help me buy a wheel set and recognize that its a valid form of transportation is a pretty big deal.

If I could somehow convince them that in the 1mi x 1 mi community they live in a car is largely unnecessary, that would be a real victory. Baby steps =).

:thumb:

Man, I feel pretty lucky. I'm from a blue collar family (first gen college student and all that good stuff, working full time and attending school part time til I pay off loans). Recently I was hit by a car. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a bad accident. My front wheel was totaled, but my frame and I came out okay. I was reluctant to tell my parents because I figured safety concerns would prompt them to suggest I buy a bus pas. They found out via facebook and my sisters, and called to rage about the driver and offer to help me buy a new wheel set because "your bike is basically your car." I guess that sounds lame on paper, but for my parents to scrounge up $150 to help me buy a wheel set and recognize that its a valid form of transportation is a pretty big deal.

If I could somehow convince them that in the 1mi x 1 mi community they live in a car is largely unnecessary, that would be a real victory. Baby steps =).

:thumb::thumb:

My father is very closed minded. Every time I spend money on my bike he says that I can just go buy a new one for $100. I'm running out of ways to call him a cheap bastard without actually calling him a cheap bastard.

The response is no surprise. Americans think of bikes as toys not transportation.
While visiting my parents recently, my mother told me how much she admired me for continuing to ride and thought about getting her own bike out again. She swims 5 or 6 laps of an olympic pool 2 or 3 times a week now. But when my father suggested she could use the bike to ride to the pool each week(as a warmup), she just exploded. She said, "I shouldn't have to do anything like that! " The idea of using a bike for fun was was ok. Using it for transportation would be demeaning.

Marc

My father is very closed minded. Every time I spend money on my bike he says that I can just go buy a new one for $100. I'm running out of ways to call him a cheap bastard without actually calling him a cheap bastard.

I recently estimated that the cycling I've done to replace driving during the past 40 years has saved me $140000. Tell the cheap bastard that and see what he says.

Marc

My father is very closed minded. Every time I spend money on my bike he says that I can just go buy a new one for $100. I'm running out of ways to call him a cheap bastard without actually calling him a cheap bastard.

Just ask if he would rather drive a 1980's Chevette or a 2012 Corvette (insert vehicle of his choice). Explain that's equivalent to to the difference in a cheap bike and a good bike.

Better yet (from someone who knows, builds 'em every day), make the comparison between a Yugo and the dream ride of his choice -- '57 Chevy, 2012 Vette, gullwing Mercedes, whatever.

Why do people smoke expensive cigars instead of Swisher Sweets? Why do people drink Sam Adams instead of PBR? Neither of those examples does a THING for anyone's health or moves anyone from A to B. The examples go on an on, Walmart shoes VS. Stacey Adams or Nike, Big Lots furniture VS. Oak Expressions. . . .

My father is very closed minded. Every time I spend money on my bike he says that I can just go buy a new one for $100. I'm running out of ways to call him a cheap bastard without actually calling him a cheap bastard.

I'm sixteen and I totally know what you mean man, but he just doesn't understand how much cycling actually cost neither does he appreciate how much money your actually saving up on gas and stuff even though I really don't care since I'm too young to drive but you know.

My dad is willing to spend 80 bucks for me on shoes,clothing and stuff like that but I don't and rather save it up on bike parts cause I need it but he doesn't understand that.

Cheer up dude =D

Cheers,
Rodger

My mum is quite fine with the cycling thing, but my dad... He's a runner and finds cycling an expensive sport. Being underaged to drive, I pretty much love my bike and it's my only way around my neighbourhood. Plus I find that doing it as a sport also trains your "engine" to perform better in short distance commutes =D. Next year, I'll be commuteing 10ks to my polytechnic which is really out of the way but I'll be proud of myself for putting in extra miles in.

Overall it's only my dad but I don't blame him, I'm using his money and I really want to get a job so I can start buying my own bike parts. I really love cycling and honestly I would never give it up. Short distance commuting wise, yes I would still use my bike. Long distance though anything above 20ks and for dates ( DON'T WANT TO BE SWEATY =P ), I'll op for the car =D or maybe public transport but meh.

Currently if I want to get to places that are far I lock my bike up at the station and use the train so I skip the bus all together =D. I'm also allowed to bring my full sized bike in the train so that's a plus if I want too. Although the stations here are bike friendly, only people with registered tap card things are allowed to park their bike in a really secured bike shelter. So that's a plus =D. No worries about my bike being stolen, it's also pretty safe here. Though, losing my prized possesion will be devastating and I'd be heart broken =[

Riding F*@& the world!

Cheers,
Rodger

My wife is car free and a cyclist \ runner. Every once in a while my eldest son says something stupid regarding me riding on the sidewalks but he is only 8. The rest of my family doesn't care so much. I believe they are aware of the fact that I am stubborn as all heck and it would be futile to try to get me to quit cycling.

Using it for transportation would be demeaning.
I was thinking about this concept. For many people, there is a stigma attached to using a bike for transportation. It suggests that the rider is of low income and social status. Not always true, but there is something behind this stereotype.

So, how do you use a bike for transportation and convey to others that it is your choice, not because you can't afford a car?

You know, pretty much everyone around me is fine with it. I've built bikes for several family members. When we started our relationship, my GF was freaked out about the riding in town I do, and told me so, but she now rides about the half mile to her work on an old Raleigh three speed I found for her (nice days only).

I was thinking about this concept. For many people, there is a stigma attached to using a bike for transportation. It suggests that the rider is of low income and social status. Not always true, but there is something behind this stereotype.

So, how do you use a bike for transportation and convey to others that it is your choice, not because you can't afford a car?

I ride a $2K bike.

Not an issue for me as my baby sister(56) is a runner and both of my brothers do at least a nominal type of work out. In my family, aside from politics upon which we agree to disagree, we've always had a "live and let live" attitude.


That is sad.

Hardly.

I was thinking about this concept. For many people, there is a stigma attached to using a bike for transportation. It suggests that the rider is of low income and social status. Not always true, but there is something behind this stereotype.

So, how do you use a bike for transportation and convey to others that it is your choice, not because you can't afford a car?

I've always been intrigued by this double standard. Biking is seen as an "expensive hobby/sport", yet only poor people bike for transportation. Which is it? Is biking just for rich people or just for poor people? The truth of course is that it's for everyone. You can get a cheap bike and ride the heck out of it to get where you need to go, whether you're rich or poor. Of course, only certain people can afford a $5000 carbon road bike, but that doesn't mean you have to have one to do long rides for fun. I pass plenty of people on bikes like that on my old Miyata, which I found next to a dumpster. Sure, I've spent money on parts upgrades, but a far far cry short of $5000. That's the beautiful thing about bikes, they're free to ride, so anyone can do it (physical limitations aside).

I recently estimated that the cycling I've done to replace driving during the past 40 years has saved me $140000. Tell the cheap bastard that and see what he says.

Marc

140k is quite a sum of money! lol. I'd just like to cut my $30 a week on gas down to $30 a month to start.

I was thinking about this concept. For many people, there is a stigma attached to using a bike for transportation. It suggests that the rider is of low income and social status. Not always true, but there is something behind this stereotype.

So, how do you use a bike for transportation and convey to others that it is your choice, not because you can't afford a car?

You can't really change the way people perceive it until they know you personally. Americans are trapped into the Madison Ave mode of self expression. Their cars are an extension of their values, beliefs and (more importantly) their self esteem. We are all victims. Letting people know it's a conscious decision (and the hard part is...) without self-righteous smugness is a start. Here is something from my blog on the subject. (http://simplecycle-marc.blogspot.com/2011/07/excusesexcuses.html?m=0)

Marc

140k is quite a sum of money! lol. I'd just like to cut my $30 a week on gas down to $30 a month to start.

Yep, 140k ain't chump change to nobody! If Warren Buffet had realized that, he'd have a fleet of folders on his jet.

Marc

I've always been intrigued by this double standard. Biking is seen as an "expensive hobby/sport", yet only poor people bike for transportation. Which is it? Is biking just for rich people or just for poor people? The truth of course is that it's for everyone. You can get a cheap bike and ride the heck out of it to get where you need to go, whether you're rich or poor. Of course, only certain people can afford a $5000 carbon road bike, but that doesn't mean you have to have one to do long rides for fun. I pass plenty of people on bikes like that on my old Miyata, which I found next to a dumpster. Sure, I've spent money on parts upgrades, but a far far cry short of $5000. That's the beautiful thing about bikes, they're free to ride, so anyone can do it (physical limitations aside).

+1

I bought my 24-speed racing bike in 2003 for $750. The bike shop allowed me to pay for it over three months. Every time I am on my bike getting passed by a motorist, I laugh when I think about the $ I don't have to spend for maintenance/repairs/upgrades that don't cost anywhere near what a car owner has to spend. The funniest part is, the engine block....a cyclist is their own engine block.

I ride a $2K bike.

Most people are not going to know whether you paid $2k for your bike or are riding a $20 garage sale special.
Only riders are likely to know the difference between the two.

Letting people know it's a conscious decision (and the hard part is...) without self-righteous smugness is a start. Here is something from my blog on the subject. (http://simplecycle-marc.blogspot.com/2011/07/excusesexcuses.html?m=0)
A fun read, thanks.

Most people are not going to know whether you paid $2k for your bike or are riding a $20 garage sale special.


Which can be a plus when I'm out shopping and have to leave my bike outside, though generally I shop in areas that are considered a motorist's mecca. People have commented on how they like my bike's look, but I seriously doubt that they know it's actual replacement cost.

Would your recommendation then be for her to just go ahead and drive without the license?
Maybe your suggestion would be to use cabs to get everywhere.
Would the bus for all transport be better?

You're in a better position to answer that than me. I have no idea what her daily responsibilities are, what the weather or traffic patterns and cycling infrastructure in her area are, what the distances, hills, etc. involved are, or what her past cycling experience, skills or comfort levels are. All that said, it is really tough for me to imagine how it would work for anyone except an already skilled and committed cyclist living in close proximity to the places she needs to go with her kids, in a place with decent cycling "culture" and/or infrastructure, and decent weather.

And by the way, the cost of regular taxi use will cost some bucks, but compare it to the cost of using the car (including maintenance and insurance) and the cost difference narrows or goes away.

All that may be true and therefore your advice is worthwhile and not just putting ideas out there without any thought to practicality (which is what I assumed, and for that I apologize if I was wrong).

So, - and I really am interested, not being argumentative - Can you tell me how you think it would actually work for her? Do you really think it's practical given what her lifestyle, location and past experience, etc.?

Or did you just throw the idea out there to plant the bug in her mind, and then get offended because someone who actually did give it some thought didn't think it was a useful suggestion.

I am interested in your thoughts because, like I said, I am a committed cyclist, for a long, long time. But that experience has shown me that, especially for people with families, and especially in our country, there really are limits to what someone can do on a bicycle So yes, a bus or taxi might be a better alternative for her.

And, again, I do not disagree that there are so many people who just don't see bikes as reasonable transportation. I get that. But I think the point in this case - was the person who dismissed your idea being "closed minded" or just practical? There's a huge difference. I'm not closed minded at all, but like I said, without knowing better, I just think the suggestion didn't have any value to her at all.