Fifty Plus (50+) - Parking with the headlights on. (Way off topic)

I live in a large apartment complex. Over the past few years, I have noticed what seems to be some sort of new trend, if that is the right word. People park, sometimes for long periods of time, and leave the headlights on. It isn't just here at my complex. It would appear to be common practice everywhere else. Parking on the street, headlights on. Parking in a business center parking lot, headlights on. Heck, parking in Walgreen's parking lot, you betcha! Headlights on, while we make a few calls, and munch on some snacks that were just purchased.

Ok, I'm turning into an old grouch, and I know it. But when did this come about? Anytime I have done "live" (remaining in the car, with engine running) parking, I have always turned off the headlights, and left the parking lights on, for visibility. What memo did I miss? Let me take a wild guess: this started about the same time as people "Stalking" people in parking lots for a space near the door, right?

Okay, I am cranky and I am heading to bed. Good night! :notamused:

It's the new alternators. They overcharge the battery and folks are running it down to the proper level. :innocent:

Ok, I'm turning into an old grouch,

It takes one to know one and yes you are.

If your car still has crank up windows you might not be aware of this but the headlights on lots of cars today automatically turn themselves off after a minute or two.

If it's dark, my headlights go on automatically. If it's dark and I sit with the engine on, the lights are on. If I am stopped at a signal under a shaded underpass, my lights go on. Maybe these people have the same set up?

It's not just cars. People are culturally trained to believe that everything should be over-lit at night. They believe "dark = bad" and "more light = more safe".

<soapbox>
As an amateur astronomer for the past 24+ years, I've become acutely aware of the endless growth of light pollution. Every square foot / meter of property is insanely over-lighted with harsh glaring light that actually obscures instead of illuminating (not to mention wasting a lot of money). Even in the most rural of places, dusk-to-dawn lights can be seen from horizon to horizon, "guarding" who knows what from whom knows what.
</soapbox>

OK - I'm all right now.... :innocent:

I just wish they'd DRIVE with the lights on.

It's the new alternators. They overcharge the battery and folks are running it down to the proper level. :innocent:
:lol:

People have been doing this every since lights got an auto setting. Lots of people never touch the light switch.

People have been doing this every since lights got an auto setting. Lots of people never touch the light switch.

I don't think I've ever changed my light switch from the auto setting:)

It's the new alternators. They overcharge the battery and folks are running it down to the proper level. :innocent:

What are alternators did it replace the generator or something? :50:


Yeah I leave mine on auto but they turn off as soon as I lock my doors...

It's not just cars. People are culturally trained to believe that everything should be over-lit at night. They believe "dark = bad" and "more light = more safe".

<soapbox>
As an amateur astronomer for the past 24+ years, I've become acutely aware of the endless growth of light pollution. Every square foot / meter of property is insanely over-lighted with harsh glaring light that actually obscures instead of illuminating (not to mention wasting a lot of money). Even in the most rural of places, dusk-to-dawn lights can be seen from horizon to horizon, "guarding" who knows what from whom knows what.
</soapbox>

OK - I'm all right now.... :innocent:

Lots of places require that (or certenly should require) street light to be dark sky compliant. These are light that are supposed to not directly light the sky. How well they do this is another topic, but at least the thought is there.
I too would rather see stars in my back yard, than the soft orange glow of the Walmart parking lot.

I'm a life member of the International Dark Sky Association. http://www.darksky.org/

People showing off their automatic headlights....

I'm of the minority who believes that the electric light has done us some harm as a culture. As a society, we need to go to bed earlier and get more rest. Electric lights have turned night into day, and have caused us to lengthen our daily activity (much of it useless, BTW).

I have auto-on headlights and daytime running lights on my car. As soon as I turn the key in the car, even if it's just to listen to the radio, the running lights come on. If it's dark, the full headlights come on.

What has already been said. Many modern vehicles are designed to turn the headlights on automatically as soon as you turn the key. Depending on vehicle brand and model some headlights will stay on as long as 3 to 5 minutes, after you turn the key off, as a safety/coutesy feature.
Canada has had a headlights-on law for years.
Ohio had a no headlights-on law for the Ohio Turnpike(maybe other interstates?) and used that as a revenue source for years to to rob Canadian drivers, that could not turn the vehicles lights off.

Just wish there was an auto-fog-light-off for idiots that think they are "driving lights". Fog lights are meant to shine on the side of the road so you can see where it is in ...........THE FOG...not as an accent light to "look cool" or blind oncoming traffic. Turn them off when approaching other vehicles like you would your high beams(yes dim those...for those of you that never do!!)

If it's dark, my headlights go on automatically. If it's dark and I sit with the engine on, the lights are on. If I am stopped at a signal under a shaded underpass, my lights go on. Maybe these people have the same set up?

^ This. People with automatic headlights either can't or don't bother to control the lighting functions. My car can be outfitted with a lighting function, but even if it had it, there is still a way to turn it down to parking lights.

What really grinds my gears is when people park or stand with their cars along the left curb, facing the wrong direction. For some reason that seems to be far more distracting/blinding/harder to see around than people who park on the right side of the road.

I don't think I've ever changed my light switch from the auto setting :)

That's exactly where I leave the switch... on my bike.

The nicest thing about the dynamo hub and Schmidt Edelux headlight, is the ambient light sensor that switches the headlight and taillight on and off automagically.

You lot haven't lived. These are company cars and they don't cost anything---So what not leave the lights on--It's company electricity.

So that I don't make others mad I have changed my DRL (Daytime Running Lights), which are independant of the low beams, to use the yellow "3157" bulbs. Much easier on the eyes.
When I don't want the automagic lights on, like if I am sitting parked, I will use the switch to turn them off.

On the other side of the coin, in most newer cars when you turn on the high beams the low beams go off. Chevrolet, in my trucks at least, lifts the ground wire to the low beams to disable the power to the lights. If you hard wire the ground then when you turn on the high beams the lows stay on providing just enough additional light that you see the deer real good before you hit it.

I'm of the minority who believes that the electric light has done us some harm as a culture. As a society, we need to go to bed earlier and get more rest. Electric lights have turned night into day, and have caused us to lengthen our daily activity (much of it useless, BTW).

No headlights/Planet Bike Superflash tail lights for bikes, either?

It takes one to know one and yes you are.

If your car still has crank up windows you might not be aware of this but the headlights on lots of cars today automatically turn themselves off after a minute or two.

I drive a Subaru. It has power windows, and daytime running lights. I believe daytime running lights are one of the smartest ideas ever implemented, but that is another matter. I frequently ride with my headlight on during the day.

What I am talking about are these characters who sit in the vehicle, parked, with the engine running and headlights on. For nighttime cyclists, it can be problematic. As you approach from the oncoming lane, you wonder if they are parked for the time being, or about to zoom out abruptly. In my apartment complex, and other like it, it can be a problem for folks living on the ground level, since the beams slam right into their windows. The real crackups, are the ones who sit in a store parking lot, Walgreen's for example, and sit there, engine running, headlights on, while drinking from a giant bottle of soda and talking on their phones.

Maybe I'm just allergic to the modern age, or something.

Lots of places require that (or certenly should require) street light to be dark sky compliant. These are light that are supposed to not directly light the sky. How well they do this is another topic, but at least the thought is there.
I too would rather see stars in my back yard, than the soft orange glow of the Walmart parking lot.

There are some (fortunately more, albeit slowly) places that have such requirements, but most do not. What most folks miss is that light shining up in the is actually money flowing off into the air. Light that doesn't light anything (useful) still uses electricity that's not nearly as cheap as it once was. It's generally far more effective to talk to light polluters about wasted money than dark skies. The latter all to often comes across to them as akin to tree hugging. I think most people aren't really aware of just how well most human eyes can see in the dark, if fully dark-adapted.

But I'm like you - Pink/orange isn't my favorite sky color. One of these days I oughtta join the IDA....

Lots of places require that (or certenly should require) street light to be dark sky compliant. These are light that are supposed to not directly light the sky. How well they do this is another topic, but at least the thought is there.
I too would rather see stars in my back yard, than the soft orange glow of the Walmart parking lot.

Dark Sky compliant lighting has been around for a while now, and not only does it leave the sky darker, it saves money too. Think about it this way, a globe light sends 50% of the light up, that means that for every $1 worth of power you use to operate the light, 50 cents is wasted. If the lighting unit uses an incandescent bulb, 70% of the power is wasted as heat, that means 70 cents worth of the power used is wasted as heat, and if 50% of the light goes up, your getting 35 cents worth of usable light for every dollar spent.

We have 3 outside lights on the house, two of those are on light sensitive motion detectors, so the light level needs to be below a certain point and there needs to be motion nearby, to turn the light on.

What I find frustrating is that Walmart is open from 9AM until 10PM, so why is the parking lot lit like the middle of the day at 3AM? Seems like a timer could be used, to turn most of those lights off at 11PM, after the last of the staff has left.....

Dark Sky compliant lighting has been around for a while now

Trouble is (at least where I live) enforcement. We really have little in the way of lighting legislation... not that I'm in general a fan of increased legislation - We have too much already, but sometimes (!) it makes sense.

Plus, many (most?) people tend to think that being able to see at night is dependent on seeing the light, instead of the object illuminated by it. I've seen demos where direct, harsh and glaring light is used and there are such deep black shadows created that you can completely miss what's lurking in them. In contrast, properly shielded lighting illuminates what's in the shadows with out triggering an automatic iris contraction in the viewers' eyes. As a result, they retain more dark adaptation and see better into the shadows. End result is vastly improved visibility, with less light and less wasted money.

But try to convince someone who's literally afraid of the dark...:notamused:

Trouble is (at least where I live) enforcement. We really have little in the way of lighting legislation... not that I'm in general a fan of increased legislation - We have too much already, but sometimes (!) it makes sense.

Plus, many (most?) people tend to think that being able to see at night is dependent on seeing the light, instead of the object illuminated by it. I've seen demos where direct, harsh and glaring light is used and there are such deep black shadows created that you can completely miss what's lurking in them. In contrast, properly shielded lighting illuminates what's in the shadows with out triggering an automatic iris contraction in the viewers' eyes. As a result, they retain more dark adaptation and see better into the shadows. End result is vastly improved visibility, with less light and less wasted money.

But try to convince someone who's literally afraid of the dark...:notamused:

I think that it's more about the sale of approved lighting units, if exterior lighting units needed to be dark sky compliant in order to be sold, within about 25 years all of the older units would disappear. Which raises another question, the incandescent light bulb is on it's way out, so why are most lamps still made for incandescent bulbs?

I think that it's more about the sale of approved lighting units, if exterior lighting units needed to be dark sky compliant in order to be sold, within about 25 years all of the older units would disappear.

I don't doubt that at all, but from what I've seen there's just not the impetus for it in general.

Where I live I can't recall seeing any properly shielded fixtures that were "standard installs", i.e., not a part of some architect's specific spec for a mid/higher end installation. I work for our regional electric utility (in IT) and I don't know of any established company policy for using nor even encouraging shielded lighting. If it's there, it's certainly not publicized. In fact, I can recall only one instance where aftermarket shields were installed upon a customer's request. I don't even know for a fact if there are specific guidelines as to where D2D lighting can be installed. AFAIK, if a customer asks for a mercury vapor light, they pretty much get it without question. And then, as a company, we publicly (advertising/PR) tell 'em "be sure and turn your lights off".... :notamused:

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I suspect not... :(

I don't doubt that at all, but from what I've seen there's just not the impetus for it in general.

Where I live I can't recall seeing any properly shielded fixtures that were "standard installs", i.e., not a part of some architect's specific spec for a mid/higher end installation. I work for our regional electric utility (in IT) and I don't know of any established company policy for using nor even encouraging shielded lighting. If it's there, it's certainly not publicized. In fact, I can recall only one instance where aftermarket shields were installed upon a customer's request. I don't even know for a fact if there are specific guidelines as to where D2D lighting can be installed. AFAIK, if a customer asks for a mercury vapor light, they pretty much get it without question. And then, as a company, we publicly (advertising/PR) tell 'em "be sure and turn your lights off".... :notamused:

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I suspect not... :(

In Ontario, Canada the Ministry of Transport replaced the standard street lights on the 400 series highways, with tower lights, that are shielded, using sodium vapour bulbs, I think the payback on reduced power costs was something like 5 years. The whole thing comes down to energy cost, when energy is cheap and plentiful, most people do not care if they conserve it. When energy is expensive and hard to get, they will conserve like you would not believe...

Jeep logic board says: If driver wants lights off, he/she will turn them off while the car is powered. The lights turn off at termination of ignition. If the driver turns the lights off after the ignition is turned off, he/she wants the courtesy lights on so I will abide for 3 minutes. If the driver forgot but wants the lights off, I will let him/her turn them off by cycling the light switch once. If they just forgot, I go back to the 3 minute rule so the dummy doesn't return to a dead battery.

Jeep logic board says: If driver wants lights off, he/she will turn them off while the car is powered. The lights turn off at termination of ignition. If the driver turns the lights off after the ignition is turned off, he/she wants the courtesy lights on so I will abide for 3 minutes. If the driver forgot but wants the lights off, I will let him/her turn them off by cycling the light switch once. If they just forgot, I go back to the 3 minute rule so the dummy doesn't return to a dead battery.

This reminds me of our two Hondas, as well as another car before them. I really like the Hondas in general, but their alledged "thinking" about what I want, when I want it and how I want it is nothing short of infuriating.

When I unlock the car, the dome lights turn on even before I open the door. :notamused: Once I get in and close the door, they remain on for X minutes and then slowly fade down. Cute. :twitchy: It's always nice (not!) to get in the car on a dark parking lot, only to end up as a highly-visible specimen in an illuminated display case until I can get the engine started so the interior lights will turn off. :twitchy:

If I unlock the car with the remote but don't actually open it in N seconds, it locks back. :mad: When I reach a certain speed, the doors lock and won't unlock until stopped and in Park. On the Accord, even the radio makes itself louder as I speed up (which I quickly learned how to disable). On the Odyssey, if the sliding side doors have their windows down more than an inch or so, they won't latch open... supposedly some kind of "safety feature"!!?? :crash:

At least we don't have auto headlights on either car, as we did on the previous one.

Whatever happened to having a car (or whatever else) that does what it's told, when it's told, how it's told and as it's told, without backtalk... no more, no less? Sometimes using these are like driving a "computer for the rest of us". There... I didn't name it :innocent: :rolleyes:

My lights aren't auto-on, but they're auto-off. I leave them turned on all the time. They automatically shut off when I shut off the engine then open the door. I've seen a lot of more modern cars that leave the lights on for 2-3 minutes after opening the door, enough time to navigate out of a dark garage. Of course, if the driver *doesn't* get out, the lights will stay on until the door is opened or the battery runs down. (Been there, done that.)

Whatever happened to having a car (or whatever else) that does what it's told, when it's told, how it's told and as it's told, without backtalk... no more, no less?

+1!!!

My lights aren't auto-on, but they're auto-off. I leave them turned on all the time. They automatically shut off when I shut off the engine then open the door. I've seen a lot of more modern cars that leave the lights on for 2-3 minutes after opening the door, enough time to navigate out of a dark garage. Of course, if the driver *doesn't* get out, the lights will stay on until the door is opened or the battery runs down. (Been there, done that.)

I always think about those that leave the lights on for a couple of minutes, that is wasting power you might need later to start the car, when it's cold (I mean well below freezing type cold) out. Sure it's convenient until you get that familiar Rrrr rrrr rrrr sound of a battery that just ain't got the juice left to start the car, because the car wasted a lot of power leaving the lights on.