Fifty Plus (50+) - Heretic? or just my opinion!

I read posts about heart rate, cadence, gearing, speed, bike computers, etc. Based on my experience: if my chest hurts = my heart rate is too high, if I can't breathe = I'm spinning too fast, if my knees hurt = I'm pushing too high a gear, I honestly can't tell the difference of .25 mph, and I'd rather see where I'm riding and look at things other than another computer screen.:D Tim

People were riding bikes a long time before they came out with all the instrumentation. But I just got a new improved "computer" that actually shows temperature! Woo! I can see how it could be addictive. Give me another couple of years, and I'll be out there with a powermeter and GPS and be recording everything to 8 digits a thousand times a second, too.

I read posts about heart rate, cadence, gearing, speed, bike computers, etc. Based on my experience: if my chest hurts = my heart rate is too high, if I can't breathe = I'm spinning too fast, if my knees hurt = I'm pushing too high a gear, I honestly can't tell the difference of .25 mph, and I'd rather see where I'm riding and look at things other than another computer screen.:D Tim
You have spoken great truth.

In a week or two i'll follow it up with a thread entitled "What business do recreational riders have doing interval training?"

If you 're a racer all that power meter stuff might make sense (although the Luddite in me doubts that, even), but for a recreational rider it seems like a waste of money.

I shelled out $75 for a ANT+ dongle for my iPhone. If I'm pedaling so hard I need to see what my heart rate is doing, I'm usually suffering too much to pay attention to it. It was a waste of money.

+1 Too many people forget to enjoy the ride.

The only reason I'd care about my watt output..would be if I'm powering a light bulb!

Based on my experience: if my chest hurts = my heart rate is too high, if I can't breathe = I'm spinning too fast, if my knees hurt = I'm pushing too high a gear,
You can probably tell when it's raining just by sticking your nose out the door too, can't you? Me too.

I like a computer to show me distance. Knowing speed, and maybe top speed, is fun for its wow factor. Otherwise, my old steel bikes ride just fine, thank you, and the high-quality engine still hasn't quite adjusted to the bump from 2x5 gearing to 2x6.

Based on my experience: if my chest hurts = my heart rate is too high, if I can't breathe = I'm spinning too fast, if my knees hurt = I'm pushing too high a gear,

To my RN mind, 'chest hurts'=chest pain=bad cardiac stuff happening. Of course, shortness of breath can also be a sign of bad pulmonary/cardiac stuff but is perfectly normal on a hard climb up a steep grade.
But, I don't recall experiencing what I would describe as my chest hurting while cycling. How would you describe the discomfort? How about others' experience/descriptions of this kind of distress that would seem be a result of pushing too hard?

Blasphemer! All datum must be gathered, collated, graphed and analyzed! (and shared, if it's really, really good...or just better than someone else's) :D

OK, admittedly, I do engage in some of that foolishness. I toyed with heartrate stuff when I was training for a marathon a few years ago, but I've gotten out of that. I do like capture distances - something I started doing so I know when to replace my running shoes...I just migrated it to the bike stuff, as well...

I've become less and less interested in data from individual rides, and have not even bothered to install computers on the last few bikes I built.
But, what interests me more these days is total accumulated mileage, (or kilometerage) on specific parts and components so for that purpose, I find bike computers most useful.

To my RN mind, 'chest hurts'=chest pain=bad cardiac stuff happening.

I'd be remiss not to second that.

I tell a cardiologist friend I routinely ride out in the middle of nowhere and I pedal so hard going up hills I think I'm going to puke.

He has me scheduled for a stress echo. If I had an ounce of sense I'd get it done.

But I AM A CYCLIST.

one or two summers ago I was heading back from a rather long ride with some friends and the heat had hit us a bit harder than expected. I had hydrated and taken a few extra breaks but after climbing a short hill and decending the other side I suddenly felt a bit tired. Looked at MY HR monitor and noticed it was a bit high. I didn't feel all that bad just a bit weak. After about 1/2 mile on level ground my HR hadn't dropped any. Still didn't feel bad only a bit weak. Pulled up to a stop light and MY HR was still high and it was only then I noticed I wasn't sweating. We found a shady place and poured water over me to cool me down and I got a ride in a truck back to the starting place for our group ride. It was the beginning of heat exhaustion. I only caught it early because I was concerned with my HR reading. Yes I use one and no my chest didn't hurt even with a high HR. But that is just me.

Choteau,

Exactly!

The BF is an enthusiast’s board. 80% of the talk/advice could be classified as fetish, obsessive, and neurotic. Don't take it seriously.

Of course, ranting about it is even more bizzare..which I’ll do too often. At least with Bicycle Mag the drive force is more logical: sell as much stuff to "cyclists" as humanly possible.

Ride on.

I have ridden for years. I have never had aspirations to being anything other than a recreational cyclist. Well, sort of, I trained with a race team for awhile. I realized that if I wanted to be successful as a racer, that I would have to get very structured and disciplined in my training. I rode quite a bit. But I have always ridden the way I "felt like" riding on any particular day. It struck me that I already had a job and having a part time unpaid job as a competitive athelete just did not seem to make a whole bunch of sense.

There is a local club that I had ridden in. I used to ride with the "A" riders. Virtually all of the "A" riders I rode with are out of cycling and have been for years. Many of them have gotten way out of shape and gained piles of weight. The "A" rides were big contests to these people and they really wanted to "win" or something. I always felt good about riding well. But I have always loved cycling for its own sake. There were some other riders like me in that old fast bunch and the ones who cared less about competition all seem to be still riding.

I am not saying that competition is bad. If that is what floats your boat, have a blast. But there is a point where riding for the joy of riding and seeing the scenery has a place also.

Good point.

The time that Garmin data, etc makes sense is to judge what my fitness level MAY be compared to other riders on any given group ride. I was looking over my Strada data where you can dissect out certain segments pretty easily. My 'favorite' loop has a ft./mile ratio of 66, which in this area qualifies as 'moderately hilly'. It's a 5 mile loop. If I can ride it at 14-16 MPH (which I've never done, BTW, particularly on my bent) for 3-4 loops I really should be able to hang with the B club rides.

I realize the above paragraph might have moved me from 'Luddite purist' to 'typical BF fetishmonger'.

Oh well.

I ride occasionally with other riders and I do not enjoy it. They have a competitive edge to them that I lack. I do not worry about it as I go at my pace- do the hills how I want to and get the ride done with some energy to spare.

However I do use a Computer and Heart rate monitor. The computer will tell me how many miles I have done and as it is a Garmin-It will also tell me Amount climbed- degree of climb and average speed. I use that to gauge how "Fit" I am for future reference. The heart monitor and I like to do a ride with a purpose in mind. As such I like to keep within my working zone which is between 130 and 140 for most of the ride.Problem is- 120 and 130 sometimes don't feel much different so I use it to check that I am in the zone. Similarly- I try not to exceed my HR unless there is a hill involved. As soon as I start exceeding 150 then I back off a bit- unless it is a hill. Too many miles above my working zone and I will be cutting the mileage.

I am in your camp where I do not worry about doing a ride as fast as I can- I keep within limits on the flat and up hills but downhill and everything goes by the board. I don't want to see how high i can get the heart rate- as long it is high enough is fine. I use cycling for enjoyment and if that means viewing the scenery then that is what I do. on the majority of my rides.

:popcorn

A "ditto" thread many times over

I use an HRM but not so much for any speed training or trying to be in any one riding group. My leukemia has also produced chronic anemia and my hemoglobin is always low. Because of that, I don't always get oxygenated as well as I should, on a cellular level. Watching my HRM and my respirations helps me determine ahead of time if my body is heading for a crash when I'm on my 50+ mile rides.

Edit: I do use a bike computer but mainly for distance, even though my computer has cadence.

Well, I say record what you want. Some people really enjoy statistical analysis. I see it as a harmless mental exercise, kinda like crossword puzzles.

I have a cheapie computer and record mileage and times. I have no idea what my cadence is. I go by feel. If the pedals are getting to hard to push shift down, too light shift up. But I'm mainly a commuter with some recreational riding on the weekends.

Well, I say record what you want. Some people really enjoy statistical analysis. I see it as a harmless mental exercise, kinda like crossword puzzles.

+1. I haven't used a bike computer in years but I ride with others who use gps, powermeters and all types of electronics. There's nothing wrong with it and sometimes it"s fun to discuss data.

I do use a simple bike computer...rather low end one, but I mainly use it so I can keep track of my progress. I don't graph it nor even jot it down. But, I do see your complaint about looking down at the computer too much. I just glance down every 10 or so minutes(probably more often than that and can't admit it to myself, :lol: )

If I didn't have a bike computer, how could I brag that my fastest overall avg speed over a 20 mile ride was 17.3 mph once while riding a comfort bike. :innocent: :D

I read posts about heart rate, cadence, gearing, speed, bike computers, etc. Based on my experience: if my chest hurts = my heart rate is too high, if I can't breathe = I'm spinning too fast, if my knees hurt = I'm pushing too high a gear, I honestly can't tell the difference of .25 mph, and I'd rather see where I'm riding and look at things other than another computer screen.:D Tim

Welcome back to the fold of common sense.

Here we go again. To keep the popcorn flowing, I'll jump in with a "Who the heck are you to judge whether those of us who use computers are having fun?" Guess what... we data addicts are having fun, or we wouldn't be doing it. Oh, and we can still see the sights and watch where we are going! Do you look at your dashboard every now and then when you are driving a car? I suspect so. Anyway, enjoy your cycling, however you choose to pursue it... the more people cycling the better, and the more WAYS people cycle the better.

I am glad data addicts have fun.
I am glad cf frame and duraace riders have fun.
I am glad folks with $10K of bike stuff have fun.

I ride my aluminum bike with cheap wheels and primitive computer and have fun.

Fun is the point! Unless of course, you are a cyclist (I shall now go ride the hill and puke, so I can be a cyclist too).

if my chest hurts = my heart rate is getting to about the right place
if I can't breathe = I'm working hard enough
if my knees hurt = I'm over 50, my knees hurt when I watch TV

I like recording data too, not so much that I want to race but I like to challenge myself to improve my fitness and recording data is an easy way to do it. You don't have to be staring at your computer the whole time, when you get back to the computer at home then you can stare at the data. I still enjoy cycling and the challenge of going faster on each successive ride even if I'm over the hill.

Hey, you got something against gear?

I don't have a bona fide cycle computer now, but I'm planning on getting one at some point. I've just been using my phone and a little app, but the way it helps me is to provide hard evidence of change (dare I say, improvement? :-) over the long run when it may not feel like I'm making any progress. I'm (and never will be) a racer and I'm not defined by the data, but it can serve as a nice impartial reference in certain ways.

Heresy. You'll be the guest of honor at the next burning.

To my RN mind, 'chest hurts'=chest pain=bad cardiac stuff happening. Of course, shortness of breath can also be a sign of bad pulmonary/cardiac stuff but is perfectly normal on a hard climb up a steep grade.
But, I don't recall experiencing what I would describe as my chest hurting while cycling. How would you describe the discomfort? How about others' experience/descriptions of this kind of distress that would seem be a result of pushing too hard?
That was my thought as well when reading the OP. Assorted leg muscle pains, shortness of breath, and simple exhaustion are to be expected on a strenuous ride, but chest pain that's directly associated with a high pulse rate sounds like a warning sign that should at least be checked out ASAP.

If it matters to you, it matters. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Whether or not it matters to someone else doesn't matter to me.

To my RN mind, 'chest hurts'=chest pain=bad cardiac stuff happening.

I'm glad a nurse wrote this so I didn't have to. I can ride until my vision starts graying and I'm gulping air like a fish. But it shouldn't and doesn't hurt. And 30 seconds later I'm ready to do it again. :)

Where did this notion come from, that only racers should be interested in self-improvement?

Never mind.

Thanks for the reminder to log my weekly mileage total, my average speed for my daily commutes, my slowest and fastest commutes for the week and my total mileage so far in December. My 61 year old brain sometimes gets forgetful. Maybe I need to ride a little more to boost the blood circulation and my weekly total at the same time.

I didn't intend to insult anybody, or question their reason for riding. Each to their own so to say.....

I'm a data freak and waiting to pounce on the first product to offer a heads up display with 8-10 selectable data fields including topo maps and density altitude.

Here we go again. To keep the popcorn flowing, I'll jump in with a "Who the heck are you to judge whether those of us who use computers are having fun?"

I could care less how much fun you're having. I just know that when *I* put too many numbers to it, it's not fun for me.

Been through the "phases" -- had the HRM, for about five months; when it quit, and wouldn't revive with new batteries, I returned it and never bothered looking for another. Had several computers, mainly used them to track my mileage and get a feel for my speed (I'm slow). I used to obsess over ride times -- then I had successive winters with severe injuries. Broke a collarbone, then an ankle.

Now -- knowing that my RHR is not where it once was, and not giving a damn -- I just ride. I get where I want to go, I huff and puff, I feel the burn, I sweat, I know my speed has dropped off just a hair, and I keep riding. All I really care about now is enjoying the ride, and all the 'uncomfortable' things I just mentioned are part of that.

A buddy and I used to talk about a third riding partner, who never seemed to be able to push himself; we wanted to find a way to get him out of his comfort zone (never did, he wound up deployed). During those talks, it hit me:

MY COMFORT ZONE IS 'OUT OF MY COMFORT ZONE'; I'm not happy if I don't suffer some on the bike. THAT'S my feedback, not some electronic device.

I just have a comp with the basic functions. I like to know how far I've gone, what time it is, and (If I have some oomph left in me) I sometimes play a game in the last couple of miles to try and bring up my average speed for the ride. I'm not a racer and no aspirations to it, so I don't feel a need for more data than what I already have.

I can see I might like getting a GPS at some time for the map functionality, but if I get that lost, I can do it with my smartphone.

I read posts about heart rate, cadence, gearing, speed, bike computers, etc. Based on my experience: if my chest hurts = my heart rate is too high, if I can't breathe = I'm spinning too fast, if my knees hurt = I'm pushing too high a gear, I honestly can't tell the difference of .25 mph, and I'd rather see where I'm riding and look at things other than another computer screen.:D Tim

You could just as easily have asked your friends and neighbors the same question - but instead, you used a computer to start this thread.

You could walk to work tomorrow, but you'll probably drive there in a car.

Etc. etc.

I'm not trying to be as sarcastic as the above probably sounds - just making a point: Technological advances are never absolutely necessary, but they can definitely improve things.

That's why I embrace technology. And while riding, I still enjoy the scenery...

There are people here who could do well to invest in a heart rate monitor. The OP with the symptoms he portrays is a prime candidate.

An HRM is still a cheap alternative to a power meter and can be used to help people reduce their weight, check if they are overtraining/overriding, and undertake training programs to improve their fitness.

I have a simple Cat Eye cyclometer so I can track mileage and occasionally speed. I generally ride where and as far as I feel like for the day. Lots of new computers have caught my eye and I have held off on last weeks purchase of an iPhone and the hardware for mounting it on my bike. I want to evaluate what is out there and I am reading all the threads at 50+ and the 41 to get a feel for what is wheat and what chaff.

I don't want to be overly burdened but I would like to track a bit more data without getting carried away. I used to run a good bit and I am familiar with the Polar heart rate monitors, I thought maybe this would be too far for me, but as I read here a lot of people like the information and it could even save your life. Lots to think about, glad I didn't rush in last week.

Ride how you like to and enjoy the time spent on the bicycle, no matter how you feel about "Gear" (Not you, gear:lol:, I like you just fine.)

Bill

Data is worthless unless it causes a change in behavior. If you're happy with your riding performance as is or collecting data from the ride degrades the experience then this stuff isn't for you. I got into bicycling for the training aspect. I already had a HRM with data download. So adding cadence and speed wasn't too expensive.

So how has this data changed my behavior? I was already in fair shape before getting a bike so the first few months were all about getting comfortable. So battling sore butt, bike fit, maintaince , all the beginner stuff. The data collection was just along for the ride. A wise member of this forum gave me some good advice.He said " It'll take you 5 years to achieve your potential. The first year just ride. Don't train. Learn to love bicycling." I'm not saying I never pushed myself but I didn't follow any training program and I'm glad I didn't. I did make some changes to make the experience more enjoyable. Based on HRM/Cadence/Speed data I learned that spinning at 90 rpm was easier overall than my orginal 70 rpm. I really need 2 miles of warmup. I can ride all day long at 115-120 beats per minute average. Above 120 and my endurance starts to drop quickly. I need to gear down more than I think when heading into the wind or climbing. Riding tons of miles doesn't make me faster. Temperature has a big effect on heartrate.

I read posts about heart rate, cadence, gearing, speed, bike computers, etc. Based on my experience: if my chest hurts = my heart rate is too high, if I can't breathe = I'm spinning too fast, if my knees hurt = I'm pushing too high a gear, I honestly can't tell the difference of .25 mph, and I'd rather see where I'm riding and look at things other than another computer screen.:D Tim


In my youth I would check my heart rate three times before I left my bedroom to decide on what kind of riding I would be doing that day, and I would monitor and document my heart rate, water and food intake, miles and times, and a "subjective" assessment of each days ride in a journal. I wore an HRM from the time I left the house in the morning (including at work and other forms of play), and every one of my bikes had a computer, most with cadence and altimeters as well as mileage and speed. I would train in three sets of four cycles, each of four week cycles, of seven day cycles every year. At the end of the year I would have roughly 250-300 pages of recorded data and I would use it to plan out my next years training. I never competed much though because it just wasn't my thing. I could decide 2-3 days prior to just about any event (including marathons) and enter just for fun, and I was usually very happy with my performance. It was never about "winning" or beating anyone in particular, it was more about staying fit, and servicing an endorphine addiction, and improving on my own personal performances.

Today at 55, and for the past 6-7 years, I just ride for fun. I still wear an HRM occasionally but all of the bike computers have had dead batteries for years. I do still do 30-80 mile road rides at various effort levels, 20-40 mile fixie rides (again at various effort levels), 40-60 mile "urban assault" fun rides on my mountain bikes, as well as regular 20-40 mile "trail rides", and I don't document or plan anything any more. But, when I was anal about data monitoring, documentation, and planning, it was part of my cycling experience and I found it very useful and truely "necessary" to achieve my cycling goals. Today however, riding and having an enjoyable experience is all that I want or need.

What this experience has shown me is that not only is each person's "needs" different, but each persons "needs" change over time. If you are over 50 years old and still find data collection and monitoring an interesting part of your cycling experience, go for it. Get a Garmin and you can monitor just about everything except your blood sugar. Also, because "subjective" evaluations of your performance is a notoriously inaccurate measure of performance improvement, if you have a goal other than just to stay fit and healthy, and to enjoy cycling, get the right "gear" to objectively monitor and evaluate your fitness.


If data is not important to you however, just strap on your shoes and helmet and take a ride, and enjoy that you still can ride, and enjoy that cycling is still a part of your life.

+1 Too many people forget to enjoy the ride.

Could not have said any better!

ENJOY THE RIDE!

When I first got into cycling back in the early 70's, there were no bike computers. I remember the bike racing news reporting on US Olympic cyclist Ron Skarin using a cable-operated speedometer (and former Boy Scouts may remember those cartoon ads in Boy's Life for that particular brand of speedo!) in bike races; he even used it racing in Belgium, and all the Euro racers laughed at him. Back in those days we tracked training distance by estimation, or by the clock. I always felt uncomfortable about putting estimated mileages in my training log. As a rule of thumb, for long easy rides, we usually assumed an average speed of 15 mph.

Now, with bike computers, it's easy to record times and distances pretty exactly. But I still use simple computers (Sigma 609 and 1009) that are extremely reliable. And while I'm riding, I set the computer to display just the speed and the time of day clock. I think the GPS units could be useful, but they still lack the power to stay on for a full 600km brevet. Where they'd be useful would be more for wayfinding - downloading the route map of a major ride into the gadget rather than having to use a cue sheet, seeing where you are when you get lost, or alternate routes if the scheduled route is blocked.

I think bike computers are useful for those who have trouble maintaining a daily ride. I think it's extra motivation to go for a ride, even if it's raining, if not riding leaves a blank page in your ride log. I also like to keep a record of how many kilometers bikes and components last. I can then say with some authority that brand X tires consistently outlast brand Y tires by an average of x.xx kilometers! Anytime I mount anything new on the bike, the date and km reading gets recorded. When it fails, those details get recorded. After a few years, you amass some interesting data...

L.

Data is worthless unless it causes a change in behavior.
Do you have any data to back up that rather bold claim?

Is behavior worthless unless it causes a change in data?

Likewise. I ride to get away from all the crap.

Originally Posted by jethro56
Data is worthless unless it causes a change in behavior.Do you have any data to back up that rather bold claim?
Yeah. What if the data re-inforces a behavior already in effect? To an external observer there would be no change but the data is good to have been had.