Fifty Plus (50+) - In retropect, I wish....

I was thinking about my high school years a few days ago. So much has changed since I was there in 1961-1964. The one thing that jumped out at me is how we all dealt with the issue of "race." In my town and HS there just wasn't a lot of social mixing aside from having teammates who were not of your own race. I'm really glad to see our society moving forward but I do regret the friendships that never happened. Just thinking and wondering if others have things that they wish had been different.

I've had a strict policy since I was very young: I never wish things had been different.

I've made a lot of choices in my life both good and bad. Changing any of them could have sent me down a different path. That path may have been better or it may have been worse but definately would have been different. I like where I am at and have a great wife and two awesome sons. Why would I take a chance on messing that up by trying a different path?

Well, one thing for sure, the future isn't what it used to be.

Well, one thing for sure, the future isn't what it used to be.


Yeah - In high school I had maybe 70 years of "future" - now I have maybe 15 or 20, if I am lucky.

No sense regretting the past. Today is the first day of the rest of my life. Make the best of it.

I've got way too many high school buddies whose future has ended already.

I've made a lot of choices in my life both good and bad. Changing any of them could have sent me down a different path. That path may have been better or it may have been worse but definately would have been different. I like where I am at and have a great wife and two awesome sons. Why would I take a chance on messing that up by trying a different path?

EXACTLY!

All of the experiences of my past life, both good and bad, were necessary for me to reach the point that I'm at today. I don't have words to describe how contented I am today so, it's all been good.

Sometimes its fun to wonder, what would have happened if...
I have some regrets as do us all but over all I am very happy with the way things turned out. Thank God we had a large family and its still growing. Soon to have a new granddaughter, our youngest child (40) is due in April. That will make an even 24 grandchildren and with 6 great grandchildren we are truly blessed.

If I went to Sweden when the Draft was voracious for bodies to put in Uniform and have them Go
overseas to shoot people defending their own country.. I'd be Fluent in another language, at least .

Yeah. I wish I'd asked out Halle Berry when I had the chance...

I hadn't thought about race in general, but there's just a lot of specific instances of dealing with people and situations (not race related) where I could have done better. And when I reflect on it, I'm more inclined to take it easy on other people, since they're been willing to overlook my shortcomings through the years. I don't sit around and worry about it, though, and haven't finished making mistakes, either.

I try to treat people the same. Sometimes that gets you labeled as a racist though. It really does.

Yeah. I wish I'd asked out Halle Berry when I had the chance...

Me Too!!! :D

Somehow, I'm not really sure how, I managed to survive high school in the early 70s.
Who hasn't had the fantasy about "quantum leaping" back in time, into your younger self, and fixing a few things you screwed up? Heh, could you imagine going back but knowing what you know now?

Back then, we had your hippies, your tough guys ("Greasers" was what we called them, as they all had juiced up cars.) your geeks, (I fit in there somewhere) and of course, jocks. Oh yeah,,, We did have that one very old teacher my freshman year, who actually walked around with a ruler, measuring girls' skirts. More than two inches above the knee, and you were sent home. The old battleaxe taught history. Made sense, since she probably lived most of it. She retired at the end of that year. So, starting next year,,, Miniskirt heaven. It was a great time to be a young male! :D
Of course, my math grades suffered, but it was for a good cause.

Not sure what I would have done differently. That would require some serious thought.

I was thinking about my high school years a few days ago. So much has changed since I was there in 1961-1964. The one thing that jumped out at me is how we all dealt with the issue of "race." In my town and HS there just wasn't a lot of social mixing aside from having teammates who were not of your own race. I'm really glad to see our society moving forward but I do regret the friendships that never happened. Just thinking and wondering if others have things that they wish had been different.

Just one thing I would change if I could, I would have never studied computers as a career, I would have taken something important like plumbing. Then again, if you change one decision you go down a completely different path and everything else changes.

Yeah. I wish I'd asked out Halle Berry when I had the chance...

I wish I'd asked out Winnie Cooper :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXHWsY5uVbE

I hadn't thought about race in general, but there's just a lot of specific instances of dealing with people and situations (not race related) where I could have done better. And when I reflect on it, I'm more inclined to take it easy on other people, since they're been willing to overlook my shortcomings through the years. I don't sit around and worry about it, though, and haven't finished making mistakes, either.
Words to live by.

My father grew up in Hawaii, my mother, my brother, and I, in Los Angeles, so race has never been a big deal to any of us. Of course, it would fair enough to ask whether I would feel the same if I were 97% black, instead 3% -- I do not know the answer.

When I posted this thread I wasn't so much thinking about what I personally would have done differently. Not sure I would have had the "vision" to see things differently or the courage to act. I was more thinking about how where we were as a culture affected me. As it turns out as my life unfolded I was very involved in social issues like racism and sexism in society. I was just thinking of some of the really good people who never became a part of my HS life thanks to the times. Back then people that I knew and loved were racists because that was what they had been taught to be. One of the great accomplishments of the '60's was that there were "radicals" who initiated change and many who were open to change. As a result the vast majority of our children and grand-children don't see race and gender in the same stifling way some of us were taught to see it.

Being born and raised in Florida, I went through the segregation years where blacks and whites didn't do anything together, period. That was until the beginning of my junior year in high school (1963) when they put the first black student, as a pilot program, in a white school and it happened to be mine. Our school was mostly Spanish and Italian (myself included) students whose parents and grandparents may have had some questionable dealings in their past. On the day that he came to school with a police escort, we were waiting with pipes and brass knuckles for the rest of his "gang" to show up because we knew that all blacks were in gangs. Nobody came!

At first, many of us had a hard time getting to know him because none of us had any dealings with blacks or their culture. I had Willie (yes, that was his real name) in a couple of my classes and came to find out that this kid was about one point shy of being a genius. He was very soft spoken and one of the nicest guys you ever wanted to meet. By the end of the year, he was actually one of the most popular kids in school. Sort of shot to hell all we thought we knew about "all" blacks. The last I heard, Willie was head of neurosurgery in some hospital in Atlanta.

After high school, I went into the military serving my time in VietNam. Getting along and getting to like each other wasn't an option as you didn't know who it was that was going to save your ass at any given point. After the military, I got back into construction for a while but then entered into the fire service where, again, you had to depend on everyone on your team. Becoming a SWAT Medic meant even closer bonding with your peers as there was only a hand full of people to rely on when it came down to it.

Since my military days, some of my closet friends have been black, gays and other minorities. I may have changed the way I related to blacks and other nationalities before my junior year, but that was the way the world was for us back then. But, like everything else, it all works out in the end.

I wish I'd asked out Winnie Cooper :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXHWsY5uVbE

D'Oh! I think a lot of guys had a "winnie cooper" back then. If you are interested, the entire series run of the wonder years is available for streaming at Netflix. Not a bad way to spend 23 minutes.

D'Oh! I think a lot of guys had a "winnie cooper" back then.
Linda Mitchell. I sat behind her in class when I was 8. She smelled of soap. Sigh.


If you are interested, the entire series run of the wonder years is available for streaming at Netflix. Not a bad way to spend 23 minutes.
You can watch the entire series in 23 minutes? Dang.

I see your point Bruce, I dated a girl in HS for a while, she turned out to be the single most racist person I have ever known. I got away from her and I am married to a wonderful, understanding and caring woman that has not a racist or mean bone in her body. I guess I don't want to change anything. I was in the deep south but went to an inner city high school and had friends of every race, religion and possible make up (well almost every.....) Sure there were bad days and some riots but I seemed to have walked through this somehow, even had the honor of serving on the Human Relations Committee my Senior year. I was lucky and I suppose blessed.

If I was to change something I wouldn't have what I have today, probably, so I am content and just try to be a better person each day as I grow.

Bill

Race won't be an issue the day when a person who is 50% white and 50% black won't be designated black, for whatever reason. It will become a historical note when every inequality for all causes involving multiple races isn't automatically blamed on racism.

Oh yes, my introduction to racism was when my buddy and I, he of a different race and both in military uniform, were not allowed to eat and drink in the same place. Education was completed when I was not allowed entry into a restaurant due to my race and that action was the accepted practice.

Race won't be an issue the day when a person who is 50% white and 50% black won't be designated black, for whatever reason.

So true. I always tell people I am descended from the Bushmen of the Kalahari by way of Italy and Germany. There's one race it's called Human.

So true. I always tell people I am descended from the Bushmen of the Kalahari by way of Italy and Germany. There's one race it's called Human.

That was the point made at Arthur Ashe's funeral.

Anymore, my experiences tell me that 'race' is more about cultural upbringing than it is skin color; it's not CANCELLED OUT, but it does hinge more on how you were raised. For instance, there's a 'quiet minority' in black communities, referred to as the "Soul Patrol", who will exert peer pressure on 'their own' who don't conform to a certain way of life that is, essentially, anti-white. In their eyes, you HAVE to accept unfettered reproduction, single mother families, a rejection of education, and a wholehearted embrace of rap and thuggism, just because it's 'black'. I see it daily, anyone from 4-year-olds to 40-somethings sagging their jeans, displaying a complete lack of education in speech and attitude; white folks have to PROVE they're not "crackas". A diploma will apparently turn a Soul Patrol disciple white....

Overall, though, racism is a looooonng way from dead; in fact, middle-class white folks are about the only group on the planet who don't feel justification in their feelings. Colors look down on each other, as do nationalities. It starts with the idea that "different=less".

There was one boy in my first grade class who was black; his name was Darrell Dennis, and he was my first school friend. That year, I was first confronted with racism, and it stopped me in my tracks. Some other boy jumped on my friend, Darrell put him on his ass, and another boy hollered, "HEY, lay off, blackie!" He got chased across the playground. That was 1966.

I lost touch with Darrell after second grade; until ninth grade, when I entered public school, there was ONE other black child in our classes (a cute and fun girl!). Once again, though -- this time from the other direction -- racism stopped me short. Documentary films of the riots brought out a lot of aggression....

My personal awareness wasn't too expanded, until after my first divorce (I was 34). I'll sum up my awakening after that by simply saying, my second wife was (in order of %), Native American, black, and white.

Don't quite see things like a lot of people do.................

Race won't be an issue the day when a person who is 50% white and 50% black won't be designated black, for whatever reason. It will become a historical note when every inequality for all causes involving multiple races isn't automatically blamed on racism.

Oh yes, my introduction to racism was when my buddy and I, he of a different race and both in military uniform, were not allowed to eat and drink in the same place. Education was completed when I was not allowed entry into a restaurant due to my race and that action was the accepted practice.

I quit thinking about classing people by skin colour, when I looked at two friends, one Jamaican and one Italian, and realized that my so-called white Italian friend was actually darker, then my so-called black friend from Jamaica, at the end of one summer.....

DX-MAN: I did not know that about Arthur Ashe's funeral. Back around 1974 I wrote the first Affirmative Action Plan for CT State Employees. So, I got involved with many groups representing Black, Hispanic and Female citizens. I learned a lot. Not sure I can synopsize but basically what I saw was diverse groups using different language and different "stories" about culture and life trying to get the same thing.....a better way of life. All of them wanted something better for their children. As I see it, to do that we need to focus on our common humanity and not our differences. I would mourn the loss of our individual cultural identities but if we see them within the context of our human identity we will be just fine IMHO.

There are other dimensions of discrimination besides race (and culture)

For me, that is perception of disability. Folks who look "different," are in wheelchairs, have different motions or walking style, have missing body parts, have decreased intellectual fundtioning, etc., are all subject to perverse types of discrimination, especially in employment and social interactions.

How many of you are uncomfortable when talking with someone in a wheelchair?

Of particular difficulty are those who appear normal with hidden disabilities. I have a good friend with a son with XXYY syndrome - appears and looks "normal," but is far from it.

I could write a book anout the strange things that have happened to my sons.

My son, Tim, and daughter-in-law, Amy.

www.foxrob.com (http://www.foxrob.com)

"Much of our practice is devoted to promoting the rights of individuals with disabilities to full enjoyment and equal treatment in businesses (http://www.foxrob.com/practices_businesses.asp), housing (http://www.foxrob.com/practices_housing.asp), government services (http://www.foxrob.com/practices_government.asp), transportation (http://www.foxrob.com/practices_transportation.asp) and employment (http://www.foxrob.com/practices_employment.asp)."

There are other dimensions of discrimination besides race (and culture)

For me, that is perception of disability. Folks who look "different," are in wheelchairs, have different motions or walking style, have missing body parts, have decreased intellectual fundtioning, etc., are all subject to perverse types of discrimination, especially in employment and social interactions.

How many of you are uncomfortable when talking with someone in a wheelchair?

Of particular difficulty are those who appear normal with hidden disabilities. I have a good friend with a son with XXYY syndrome - appears and looks "normal," but is far from it.

I could write a book anout the strange things that have happened to my sons.

My son, Tim, and daughter-in-law, Amy.
."

This is a great point. After my first few years working with the State of CT I transferred to a State Institution (now closed) for people with mental ***********. I was the Personnel and Labor Relations Director there and helped create a small unit that investigated abuse of the clients. Clients was the official term at the time. When the State decided to create an Abuse Investigation Division with it's statewide Office of Protection and Advocacy for People with Disabilities, I was asked to help. I did but then left State employment to go back to school. Got certified to teach Industrial Technology but couldn't find a job at the time. Ended up coming back to work as an Investigator in the Abuse Investigation Div. Later moved on to run investigations for the Commissioner of the Dept of Mental ***********. My boss was a Captain in the CT State Police. I think I might have mentioned also that my gf is a Behaviorist specializing in children with Autism. In any event, what you say about discrimination of people who are seen as other than "normal" for whatever reason is right on the money. When I worked at Protection and Advocacy we used to call the "normal" people the "temporarily able bodied."

Are you kidding me? You can't type re--tard--ation? How stupid is that?

Don't get me started on discrimination against the disabled. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. It infuriates me when people stop and stare at some of the handicapped and disabled as if they are something not human. In all the years that I worked in EMS/FD, I saw this a lot and got into trouble once or twice letting "normal" people know what I thought about it. People will see a handicapped person having trouble opening a door and they just walk right by them rather than open the door for them. To me this is much worst than the black and white issue. But since we can't see the issue, nothing is done about it.

In Florida, disabled hangtags are issued with the same number as the owner's state ID card number or driver's license number. When I was doing my time at the sheriff's office, I was the leader on my squad in issuing citations for parking in a disabled parking spot using someone else's hangtag. You would not believe the stories I got as to why they had to use a hangtag that wasn't theirs. Still cost them $250.00. Now it will cost them $500.00 for parking in a handicap spot with someone else's hangtag, but I still see it happen and, unfortunately, can no longer cite them.

It also bothers me that these so called handicap friendly buildings actually get passed by the building inspectors. Ever notice how every restroom in publicly accessed buildings has a minimum of one handicapped stall? Ever notice which way the stall door opens or many of the doors to the restroom open? Ever try opening that stall door against a wheelchair? After each of my wife's three hip surgeries, she faced this issues for months while being in a wheelchair.

After my retirement from the fire department, I worked for a company, as a consultant, that hired another consultant who was in a wheelchair. We all had cubicles and after a few days of trying, he still couldn't get his wheelchair under the built-in cubicle desk far enough to reach his computer comfortably. So rather than remove the section of the cubicle's desktop and put in a regular desk for him, they let him go. Needless to say, some of us were extremely upset over that. We turned in the company and they ended up paying a nice hefty fine and I went to work elsewhere.

My sons and I have been stared at by some of the best starers in the universe.

Sometimes it is curiosity (a young child)

Mostly it is just plain rudeness.

Are you kidding me? You can't type re--tard--ation? How stupid is that?


MR has been officially outlawed (by law) in governmental documents. It is extremely offensive to many parents of individuals with developmental disabilities and individuals with developmental disabilities.

Current acceptable terminology is "Individual with developmental disability" with the emphasis on the "individual" part, not the disability.

I am disabled but fortunate enough to be able to pedal a bicycle after surgery released nerve pressure in 2003. I work as a Quality/Civil Engineer on D.O.D./Navy contracts. Every building I have worked on since 1991 has been compliant according to the ADA book. I cannot in good faith say they are helpful or completely accessible. We have made some progress, but as Denver can tell you from his advocacy efforts and his son's law practice we haven't scratched the surface.

Fortunately, the government groups I work with and my employer do not have a problem with accommodating any needs, I have had myself, to date, down to relocating a bid opening I was going to on the second floor of a school district building without an elevator. At the time I had a completely paralyzed right leg and really appreciated the action. Cannot say the same for private schools and businesses. Ramps not built, elevators locked and no parking places are common here. Florida is trying they say to crack down on who uses or receives a hang tag Handicapped Placard but eye ball research tells you other family members and friends use the placards and questionable people get a doctor to sign off on a placard.

Yes the handicapped are discriminated against as are others due to race, creed color or sexual orientation, it will be a great day when a thread like this doesn't drift into discussions like these other than as reminisces.

Bill

It is amazing that, over 20 years since the passage of the ADA, they are making pretty good money suing stores/businesses etc., that don't comply with the ADA, including recently built/remodeled buildings. Unfortunately, the ADA provides no contingency fees, so all their income is based on

1. Winning the case
2. Hourly billings in the settlements of the lawsuit.

If they don't win, they are out all of their (and the other sides) expenses.

So, they have to be very selective in the cases they take.

During the previous administration, the Department of Justice hardly did any enforcing. In the current administration, it is a bit better.

One guy just remodeled his restaurant - across the street from my son's office - without providing adequate accessibility - actually reducing the accessible seating. They just won that in court.

A current California case is now in its 8th year.

If cyclists would only learn to accept recumbents...I have a dream...

If cyclists would only learn to accept recumbents...I have a dream...

I stare at recumbents. Don't take it personally . . .

I stare at recumbents. Don't take it personally . . .

Bigot.

Bigot.

Some of my best friends are recumbents. I have one myself . . .

Some of my best friends are recumbents.

I know, I know, as long as they don't move into the neighborhood :lol:

Many years ago, the Victorian-era main post office in my home town underwent a complete remodel. On the day of their grand re-opening, they invited a local disabled rights advocate to admire the new 'disabled friendly' improvements.

The local fish-wrap came along, the mayor showed up and smell of tooth-whitener and pomade hung heavy in the air.

The disabled rights advocate rolled her wheelchair up the new wheelchair accessible ramp, through the new wheelchair accessible doors and declared "Well I still can't reach the counter!"

Yep, despite all the expensive improvements and self-congratulatory back patting, nobody had realized that a 4 foot high counter was no use to someone sitting down.

Ho hum.

i know, i know, as long as they don't move into the neighborhood :lol:


Get off my Lawn!!

I am disabled but fortunate enough to be able to pedal a bicycle after surgery released nerve pressure in 2003. I work as a Quality/Civil Engineer on D.O.D./Navy contracts. Every building I have worked on since 1991 has been compliant according to the ADA book. I cannot in good faith say they are helpful or completely accessible. We have made some progress, but as Denver can tell you from his advocacy efforts and his son's law practice we haven't scratched the surface.

Fortunately, the government groups I work with and my employer do not have a problem with accommodating any needs, I have had myself, to date, down to relocating a bid opening I was going to on the second floor of a school district building without an elevator. At the time I had a completely paralyzed right leg and really appreciated the action. Cannot say the same for private schools and businesses. Ramps not built, elevators locked and no parking places are common here. Florida is trying they say to crack down on who uses or receives a hang tag Handicapped Placard but eye ball research tells you other family members and friends use the placards and questionable people get a doctor to sign off on a placard.

Yes the handicapped are discriminated against as are others due to race, creed color or sexual orientation, it will be a great day when a thread like this doesn't drift into discussions like these other than as reminisces.

Bill

It seems we spend a good deal more time and resources finding ways to differentiate and separate us than finding ways we are alike and bind us together. Even when somehow different groups(however that is defined) are brought together for a period of time a change in political or economic climate and we regress.


With regard to the Handicapped Hang Tags my favorite complaint, even before I needed a red one, was misuse by teens and young adults and with the legitimate holder's permission. For example: At the Post Office the young, spry person driving the vehicle will park in a Handicapped space, hop out and run into the PO leaving the aged and infirm person sittting in the car. Meanwhile people who have a real need are left to slip and slide across the parking lot, or circle the block awaiting a space. (Yes the numberf of spaces may be inadequate but they meet requirements).

MR has been officially outlawed (by law) in governmental documents. It is extremely offensive to many parents of individuals with developmental disabilities and individuals with developmental disabilities.

Current acceptable terminology is "Individual with developmental disability" with the emphasis on the "individual" part, not the disability.

True enough. Here in CT it is "person with a developmental disability" and I have no issue with that. I, too, see it as progress. However, when discussing historical events I don't think it's reasonable to go back in history to edit. It was what it was. The agency I worked for was called the Dept. on Mental *********** not the Dept. for Persons with Developmental Disabilities. I just don't agree with this type of censorship. The word "***********" can be applied to a variety of things including engine timing.

DX-MAN: I did not know that about Arthur Ashe's funeral. Back around 1974 I wrote the first Affirmative Action Plan for CT State Employees. So, I got involved with many groups representing Black, Hispanic and Female citizens. I learned a lot. Not sure I can synopsize but basically what I saw was diverse groups using different language and different "stories" about culture and life trying to get the same thing.....a better way of life. All of them wanted something better for their children. As I see it, to do that we need to focus on our common humanity and not our differences. I would mourn the loss of our individual cultural identities but if we see them within the context of our human identity we will be just fine IMHO.

I can't remember who said the words, but at Arthur's funeral, it was said: "Arthur Ashe was a credit to his race...the HUMAN race." That has stuck with me all this time, and I wish more would embrace it.

There really doesn't need to be a 'loss' of cultural identity; it's just a matter of NOT shoving it in everyone else's faces. I don't care if someone's culture or faith 'requires' them to dress a certain way; if they have a job that has a dress code, they should adhere to it, and the employer should tolerate a degree of deviation for that culture/faith that doesn't interfere with the duties of the job. It's called "compromise". And yes, there are absolutes in some cases; my personal faith forbids working on Saturdays. My employer respects that, and it's easy to do, because there is one other person in my 'department', and he is agreeable to working Saturdays, while demanding Sundays off -- which I readily work. I haven't worked a Saturday since long before coming to my personal faith, but I have worked approximately 49 Sundays every year since 2000.

Cultural values need not be lost; they should ideally be observed at home, though, where everyone is free to be who they are without restraint. Out in public, among society, there are limits that need to be observed for the sake of all. If 'your' religion practices sacrificing goats, then do so at home, not in front of the local Walgreens.

We are all people first, members of a race or cultural group second. Smarmy as that may sound, it's how I live. I've had a lot of time and motivation to think about it over recent years, and it's been illuminating.

In retrospect, adolescence would have been much better if I hadn't been an adolescent.

In retrospect, adolescence would have been much better if I hadn't been an adolescent.
It's true, youth is wasted on the young.

It's called "compromise". And yes, there are absolutes in some cases; my personal faith forbids working on Saturdays. My employer respects that, ...

I don't want to get into a religion debate since we have already shifted from race to disabilities, but that's not always easy to do nor is it always possible, regardless of whether the employer respects it or not. There are jobs that require you to work weekends and religious and non-religious holidays and to some extent, there is nothing that you can do other than find another job. A case in point is the public safety sector. Firefighters, paramedics and law enforcement work on shifts and you will hit a weekend and a religious and non-religious holiday. I worked a 24 hour "on", 48 hour "off" shift for almost 25 years. That means that you work every third Saturday, every third Sunday and if your shift fell on a holiday (religious or otherwise), you were at work, unless you took a vacation day (if you had the seniority). In situations such as this, I don't think the employer (in this case the city or county government) should have to accommodate religious believes since the position was accepted knowing what the work schedule is like. If someone calls for assistance from one of these services, I don't think that not responding to the call because it would interrupted your prayer time or ritual, would cut it. In this case, the "compromise" falls more with the employee than the employer.

I'm glad that in your job, all this worked out for you, but you have no idea how many years I worked on Thanksgiving and Christmas and couldn't be with my family. But I do agree with you that in most jobs, a compromise between the employer and employee can make things work for both.

It's true, youth is wasted on the young.

Wouldn't know. I've not done with my youth yet. :)

I can't remember who said the words, but at Arthur's funeral, it was said: "Arthur Ashe was a credit to his race...the HUMAN race." That has stuck with me all this time, and I wish more would embrace it.



There have been times when I've been faced with the Race question on some sort of survey form or application. I just go to Other and print in "Human." An excellent source of information about humans is a PBS show called "The Journey of Man" that retraces the beginning and spread of humans across the planet using DNA markers. It all started with the Bushmen of the Kalahari as I recall. So, we are all actually "related" except maybe for me and some of those idiots in DC. :)