Foo - Calling all camera nerds

I am thinking about buying one of these.

http://www.vistek.ca/store/DigitalCameras/257182/leica-vlux-30-black.aspx/Specs.aspx

Not at that price though.. Anybody have experience with them?

It looks nice with high MP but I guess it depends on why you want it and how you are going to use it. For the money it would appear the obviouse question is why not a digital DSLR. My iPhone is 8 MP & my Sony is 9 MP I also use a gopro with a LCD backpack for wide angle and video. The Sony is my best camera but it is cumbersome and requires planed shooting. My iPhone is always handy and does incredible pictures. I have done some impressive keynote presentations on a 72 inch wide screen shot with my iPhone and manipulated on my iPad. Nothing is better than the gopro for wide angle shots but u need the LCD backpack and it isn't the easiest camera to use. It is a very tini camera though and takes some wild shots. I looks good to me by spec but pricy. I guess it depends on you needs. I certainly have a small fortune in video and still camera equipment.

For $840, I'd want something with a faster lens.

The iphone has a decent camera, but it's still a phone/computer and not a camera.

I don't have any experience with the Leica, though I know their reputation for outstanding glass.

Timber is right, though, it depends on what you want to use it for. If you're looking for something to haul with you on mtb rides, I'd say go for the tough cameras. Pic quality isn't as good as this one would be, but if you fall on it in a stream, it'll survive! If you're after a packable camera that takes good pictures, this one looks good, albeit a bit expensive. The new Nikon cameras that take their DX (I think) lenses look promising, too, since Nikon lenses are also very good.

There are some pretty good cameras for 1/4-1/3 of that price, and there are some real good cameras, maybe better than that Leica, for less than 1/2 of that price. The Canon S95 is a good camera for less than 1/2 of that price, maybe as good or better than the Leica. You can spend even less on a Panasonic Lumix and get a very good camera with a good lens. I bought a Lumix for my wife and it hasa Leica lens. I've actually read that some Leica digitals are Panasonic cameras with a Leica name on them. As mentioned if I was going to spend that much money I would get a good DSLR and then not have to compromise. Actually I did do that, I bought a Nikon D300 a few years ago. I have a small digital to carry in my pocket when I don't want to carry the big camera, and I would like to have a better one like the Canon S95 but I don't want to spend even that much. But then I've used SLR's and now DSLR's for over 40 years and I feel handicapped with anything less.

Sorry, I forgot to add this. Do your research before you spend a lot of money. Read as many reviews and comparison tests as you can. Also I recommend reading in the user forums on dpreview.com. If you are interested in a certain camera model, you can read what the owners of that camera have to say about it.

Thanks for the information folks. I guess it was kind of a "I want a bike, what should I buy" kind of question. The camera would primarily be a point and shoot travel camera as I have a Pentax SLR and Nikon DSLR and both are too big for travel. I do want high quality/ resolution shots and was pretty impressed with this one in the store. Not a great environment to test drive a camera though.

Panasonic Lumix DMCZS8K is a better choice
same leica lens hmmmm

With Leica, you're paying for the name. I would NEVER pay over 800 dollars for a point and shoot. Especially when the difference in quality isn't huge. (Mind you, I have a Canon 7D and would never buy a point and shoot..I don't mind traveling with a large camera.)

Most, if not all, Leica P&S cameras are rebadged Panasonics. If you buy the Panasonic, you still get the Leica lens, but you'll pay much less.

The iphone has a decent camera, but it's still a phone/computer and not a camera.


I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. The iPhone 4S is much more than a camera phone and these days is the camera I go for 1st.
The most important thing about photography is havering a camera at hand when the picture happens. It is one thing to load up all your gear and head out on an adventure looking for your pictures or attending some planned event.
The best pictures happen when your camera is in its camera bag at home in your studio. I have been in the habit of carrying a camera everywhere I go for years. The last iPhone had a decent camera but it was nothing that any point and shoot didn't offer. The latest iPhone the camera to a giant step forward & I would consider it a camera that has the ability to export and image of multiple media from any location.
Like anything though it comes down to what your needs are

Agree with the others. A Leica point and shoot is JUST a name. Your saying that you have enough money to spend more than you need and you just don't care. Someone has to supply this market and Leica has the name to do it. Other than that buy a Panasonic.

Anthony

Panasonic Lumix DMCZS8K is a better choice
same leica lens hmmmm

Yes.

Panasonic Lumix DMCZS8K is a better choice
same leica lens hmmmm

Yeah, it's pretty much the same body. I can't vouch for all the workings. I have a ZS8, and it serves its purpose well. You won't get a point and shoot type camera with a better wide angle without dumping a bunch of change.

In case you think I'm being too mean which maybe I am a REAL Leica compact camera would have a fixed focal length lens and manual controls. An ultra zoom with auto everything isn't a Leica anyway so but the Panasonic.

Anthony

In case you think I'm being too mean which maybe I am a REAL Leica compact camera would have a fixed focal length lens and manual controls. An ultra zoom with auto everything isn't a Leica anyway so but the Panasonic.

Anthony

I don't think you are mean at all, just Australian. :) Two ways to read forums, what is written and how it is written. I go with what, and appreciate your opinion.

Most, if not all, Leica P&S cameras are rebadged Panasonics. If you buy the Panasonic, you still get the Leica lens, but you'll pay much less.

Leica and Panasonic teamed up and brought together the strength of each: Panasonic = electronics, Leica = optics. As a result, they have cosmetic differences while providing the same basic features.

V Lux-30 = DMCZS 10k (or the last letter representing other colors)
V Lux-5 = DMCLX 5

While essentially identical, the Panasonic models are roughly half price. They are excellent cameras.

You stated you wanted a small camera for travel. Do you NEED the ultra-long 24-384 f3.3-5.9 zoom? That V Lux5/LX5 provides a significantly larger sensor, RAW capability, external flash capability, but a wider but shorter and brighter 24-90 f2.0-3.3 lens. Also in that same pricerange but marginally larger are the Panasonic and Olympus entry level 4/3 cameras that add the capability of interchangable lens. Olympus makes great cameras, but do have concerns of them as a corporation though with the recent scandals.

Here is a comparison report on the larger sensor class P&S, including the LX5. Also, on the site, may be able to research the smaller sensor P&S.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4333175133/buyers-guide-enthusiast-raw-shooting-compact-cameras

Compare with this http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-ZS10-Digital-Stabilized-Function/dp/B004KKZ0HY/ref=dp_cp_ob_p_title_1

The DMC ZS10 is just an over done version of the ZS8. I bought the ZS8 for prolonged battery life due to the lack of the gps positioning thing. I didn't need the features the zs10 presented.

If you want a good travel camera that's smaller than a DSLR but still provides excellent performance you may look at the Olympus Pen system.

If you want a good travel camera that's smaller than a DSLR but still provides excellent performance you may look at the Olympus Pen system.

Especially with deals like this

http://www.justdeals.com/

Leica and Panasonic teamed up and brought together the strength of each: Panasonic = electronics, Leica = optics. As a result, they have cosmetic differences while providing the same basic features.

V Lux-30 = DMCZS 10k (or the last letter representing other colors)
V Lux-5 = DMCLX 5

While essentially identical, the Panasonic models are roughly half price. They are excellent cameras.

You stated you wanted a small camera for travel. Do you NEED the ultra-long 24-384 f3.3-5.9 zoom? That V Lux5/LX5 provides a significantly larger sensor, RAW capability, external flash capability, but a wider but shorter and brighter 24-90 f2.0-3.3 lens. Also in that same pricerange but marginally larger are the Panasonic and Olympus entry level 4/3 cameras that add the capability of interchangable lens. Olympus makes great cameras, but do have concerns of them as a corporation though with the recent scandals.

Here is a comparison report on the larger sensor class P&S, including the LX5. Also, on the site, may be able to research the smaller sensor P&S.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4333175133/buyers-guide-enthusiast-raw-shooting-compact-cameras

Great post and link. Thanks.

I am not at all a knowledgable photographer so manual modes and RAW imaging are really something that are lost on me. The long zoom is more a nicety than neccesity but I would find it very useful. I am not one to really compose photos, just shoot things or scenery I find appealing . Most often with dissappointment in the outcome. I guess I want the best quality shots with the least knowledge in a compact size. Maybe I just need better luck! :)

I'll also chime in for a Panasonic. I got the DMC TS3 (with Leica glass) earlier this year and it's a great P&S tough camera. I've made some great images with the camera, when I really think about it, but I put it in a pouch strapped to my Camelbak chest strap so it's always ready and I don't have to worry about falling on it or dropping it in the water.

Before this, I had the Olympus 770sw tough camera which took OK pictures. It was slow, however, where the Panasonic is pretty quick and I rarely miss a shot with it. But having the flexibility to take my camera into the lake, pool, dirt, snow and not worry about dropping it or falling on it is a big benefit for me.

Another side benefit, if you have little kids, is you can show them how to work it and leave it out for them to use. It's pretty amazing to see the world through the eyes of a 2, 3, 4.... year old! My daughter has been taking pictures with the old 770 now for almost 4 years and has learned how - when she thinks about it - to frame a really nice picture. But more than that, I have tons of really cool pictures of the world through her eyes... all without having to worry that the camera would be dropped, thrown or dropped in the bathtub (all of which have happened!!). A very nice side benefit to a tough camera.

dpreview.com results: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q311waterproofcompactgrouptest/page4.asp

If I was looking today, the top contenders for me would be the Panasonic TS3 and Nikon CoolPix AW100.

The long zoom is more a nicety than neccesity but I would find it very useful.

Make sure the zoom you buy is in the lens and NOT a digital zoom

The DMC ZS10 is just an over done version of the ZS8. I bought the ZS8 for prolonged battery life due to the lack of the gps positioning thing. I didn't need the features the zs10 presented.

Many thanks for all the input guys. I went with the Panasonic ZS8 as it seems best for my application. A lot of my travel takes me to non WGS84 compliant countries so GPS isn't needed nor was the 3D photo available on the ZS10.

Sometimes this forum produces great results. Y'all saved me over $500. :)

I'm going to echo Skiahh. The iPhone has been the most versatile travel camera I've used in years. And the "Massive Development Chart app" has made it the most used piece of equipment in my dark room save the enlarger. There is even a light meter app for it that has come in handy when I'm dragging around my 1933 Voightlander and have again forgotten to pack my regular light meter. And the time lapse app is cool, and there is a panorama app that does a crappy job with stitching but is a hell of a lot of fun to use stitching together a scene as you are standing there...and so on with the apps.

But for the amount of stuff the iPhone is capable, and still fit in your front pocket with your keys, it can't be beat for a travel camera.

http://awcg.com/Images/Paris/Tower.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJTrj8NngoI

^^^
Both are iPhone captures.

Many thanks for all the input guys. I went with the Panasonic ZS8 as it seems best for my application. A lot of my travel takes me to non WGS84 compliant countries so GPS isn't needed nor was the 3D photo available on the ZS10.

Sometimes this forum produces great results. Y'all saved me over $500. :)


I should read the entire thread before I post.
Panasonic P&Ss kick ass.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7013/6544868717_49deb2cf8c_b.jpg

I kind of like the results mine produces.

One thing to note since it is a point and shoot... keep the lens clean. Turning it on and off will slowly work a bunch of dust into the center of your lens leaving a lovely diagonal blur through all your pictures.

Many thanks for all the input guys. I went with the Panasonic ZS8 as it seems best for my application. A lot of my travel takes me to non WGS84 compliant countries so GPS isn't needed nor was the 3D photo available on the ZS10.

Sometimes this forum produces great results. Y'all saved me over $500. :)

We endeavor to give satisfaction.

Many thanks for all the input guys. I went with the Panasonic ZS8 as it seems best for my application. A lot of my travel takes me to non WGS84 compliant countries so GPS isn't needed nor was the 3D photo available on the ZS10.

Sometimes this forum produces great results. Y'all saved me over $500. :)
So to pay us back, I suggest you buy each of us a beer. You can pick us up in your new ride.:rolleyes:

I'm going to echo Skiahh. The iPhone has been the most versatile travel camera I've used in years.

Not echoing me, that was Timber_8; I was saying phone cameras aren't "cameras". They're good to have with you and grab a quick picture, and they take OK pictures at that, but compared to something that's only a camera, I just don't think they're on par with anything beyond a basic P&S.

I carry my TS3 when I travel and keep it handy for anything quick shots I want to take.

So to pay us back, I suggest you buy each of us a beer. You can pick us up in your new ride.:rolleyes:

How about, If the new ride and I are in your town, I buy you a beer? Hey, wait a minute RUOkie, you didn't contribute except to suggest a beer...

Not echoing me, that was Timber_8; I was saying phone cameras aren't "cameras". They're good to have with you and grab a quick picture, and they take OK pictures at that, but compared to something that's only a camera, I just don't think they're on par with anything beyond a basic P&S.

I carry my TS3 when I travel and keep it handy for anything quick shots I want to take.

Well iPhone & phone cameras are not the same either not meaning to confuse things here. This iPhone is an 8 megapixel camera with high dinamic range & a pretty incredible auto focus. It is better than most point and shoots I have ever owned and I have had many over the years. I'm not saying that there not better point and shoot cameras out there but the only reason to have a point and shoot is convienience and availability. Point and shoot cameras are always a secondary camera, I have never known a photographer to not carry one with or without their SLR camera. I know a lot of people only own a point and shoot as a primary camera and many will never own a DSLR. It does appear that for the discussion of this thread we are talking about a secondary camera & assuming that is the purpose then it has to be in your possession at all times. I believe that iPhone is designed around the camera with this concept in mind.

Make sure the zoom you buy is in the lens and NOT a digital zoom
This is a very important point, digital zoom is not the same & really should be called something other than zoom IMO anyway

Concerning the iPhone, and interesting quote by a very famous photographer, Annie Leibovitz

NBC’s Brian Williams interviewed Annie Leibovitz who, when asked what kind of camera one should buy, remarked the iPhone – “that is the snapshot camera of today… it’s the wallet with the family pictures in it.” Although I truly dig the iPhone 4S’ new 8 megapixel camera and all the revolutionary technology crammed into the smartphone, the Sony-made image sensor is just not large enough to rival images captured with a DSLR – and that’s expected. Apple describes its A5 chip, designed with an image signal processor, as “just as good as the ones found in DSLR cameras” and this might be true, but the image sensor is not – big difference between a signal processor and a sensor. It might allow you to shoot faster, or capture nice color and tonal range, or to use when you don’t have a camera handy, but it can’t match the quality of a larger image sensor that’s comes with a higher-quality lens. Simply put, you can’t squeeze a V8 engine into a moped. Then again, I can’t make a call, text, tweet, Google Map a route, or play Fruit Ninja with my DSLR camera, either.

There is a fujifilm x100 camera that is pretty small but it has aps-c size sensor. On top of that, it looks like a retro rangefinder camera with hybrid viewfinder and lcd screen. What really kicks ass on x100 is that it has actual aperture ring and actual shutter speed dial and of course auto option for both.

There is a fujifilm x100 camera that is pretty small but it has aps-c size sensor. On top of that, it looks like a retro rangefinder camera with hybrid viewfinder and lcd screen. What really kicks ass on x100 is that it has actual aperture ring and actual shutter speed dial and of course auto option for both.

It's not really that small actually...

It probably won't fit in your pocket.

It's not really that small actually...

It probably won't fit in your pocket.

5.0 x 2.9 x 2.1 in.
(127 x 74 x 54 mm) http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/X100/X100A.HTM

Laica v-lux 4.13 x 2.27 x 1.31" / 104.90 x 57.66 x 33.27 mm

It's no laica v-lux sizewise but with all those features, I'd find a pocket for it.

The Leica/Panasonic is already pretty big for a point and shoot. I had to go the point and shoot route because I was on a 4 day pack trip through Yellowstone and size was an issue. My panasonic was as big as I wanted to carry on that trip, and about as big as I could carry with my weight restrictions on material.

If the size is really an issue, one can go with something like this:

http://uncrate.com/p/2008/06/rolleiflex-minidigi-5.jpg

No, it's not a medium format. Minidigi-5 rolleiflex is what they call it.

^^^ I'm not sure film is available for those any longer.

0.000120 one?

Probably not....

;)

How about, If the new ride and I are in your town, I buy you a beer? Hey, wait a minute RUOkie, you didn't contribute except to suggest a beer...

damn, you caught me. I really want a ride in that thing.

^^^ I'm not sure film is available for those any longer.

It doesn't take film. So it shouldn't be an issue.

If the size is really an issue, one can go with something like this:

http://uncrate.com/p/2008/06/rolleiflex-minidigi-5.jpg

No, it's not a medium format. Minidigi-5 rolleiflex is what they call it.

I thought that was what I call a Baby Rollieflex 4x4 that took the 127 film. After I re-read your post and the "digi-5" part sunk in I realized it was a digital rendition of that camera. How bizarre!

5.0 x 2.9 x 2.1 in.
(127 x 74 x 54 mm) http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/X100/X100A.HTM

Laica v-lux 4.13 x 2.27 x 1.31" / 104.90 x 57.66 x 33.27 mm

It's no laica v-lux sizewise but with all those features, I'd find a pocket for it.

While I like the features of the camera, I can't look passed the fact that it is a 1000 dollars camera with no interchangeable lenses... Fuji has this thing way over priced.

I had to go the point and shoot route because I was on a 4 day pack trip through Yellowstone and size was an issue. My panasonic was as big as I wanted to carry on that trip, and about as big as I could carry with my weight restrictions on material.

I used to backpack a lot and I always carried my Nikon SLR and lots of film. (I haven't backpacked since I got a DSLR.)

have you checked out the Canon S100? I read that this is a very good P&S.

^^^ I'm not sure film is available for those any longer.

You can still get film for a Minox (http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=fotografie&L=1).
Sears (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM912074301P?sid=IDx20101019x00001a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM912074301) of all places carries it among others.


They still make their kick ass little spy camera too.

http://www.minox.com/uploads/pics/MINOX-CLX.jpg

I just recently went through a similar evolution in looking at a waterproof/rugged point and shoot for my outdoor activities. I was going to get a Panasonic Lumix TS3, but due to some recent reviews, and a great price on costco.com, went with a Nikon AW100. So far, so good. A heck of a lot easier to put into the handlebar bag of the MTB as opposed to my Canon DSLR and the glass.

I have some other Olympus P&S cameras, but they were not ruggedized and waterproof.