Mountain Biking - Hey Geeks - RN01

Just in case anyone was curious. Here is teh drive train.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.honda.co.jp%2FHRC%2Fcloseup%2Findex.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF8

Translated and everything :) Looks neat.

so its a derrallier in a can.

they explain how it works really well in this months issue of mountain bike action.

Except for the sproket that keeps the drive line straight thereby reducing wear. It is a deraileur in a can but at the same time improves on it. Remove poor chainline helps in more ways then just function

yeah, plus no dirt or mud can get to it.

I'm converting my MTB to the same Drivetrain found on the Landrider Autobike... this way I never have to shift again :D

why, does it really take that much out of you to shift?

If they could make a systems as efficient as manul shifting I could see a use. But I know for sure it wouldnt shift in times of need or at the torque that I like.

The original system was nuts. It used some system of a cam with a variable end so that by moving the end (changing the leverage) it would "shift" gears. The problem was do to the oscillating motion, it also needed gears that were not round but cut in an octagon. To add even more tech to the mix, the system would be destroyed if the bike was rolled backwards, so the freewheel on the rear wheel only engage under power and not the rear wheel rotating backwards. Nuts x 4363412854174

Just in case anyone was curious. Here is teh drive train.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.honda.co.jp%2FHRC%2Fcloseup%2Findex.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF8

Translated and everything :) Looks neat.

Neato. Always wondered how those worked :D

I like that idea. I thin it gives the bike a clean look. thats half the reason why I like single speed, because I dont like looking at all that junk.

Indeed Version 3 was well explained in MBA magazine. I was amazed how simple and efficient the design is. Even more amazed that nobody thought of that until now.

The only problem: it is limited to 8-9 gears.

So the question is, could this technology make its way to all mountain or even XC biking? Maybe, but somebody has to find a way to put a derailleur on the drive side and keep the sprockets "floating" to keep the short chain alligned. Clearly the derailleur has to float also! I bet it is a matter of time before they nail this.

So this isn't the design with the unlimited gearing. Its a really expensive 8-9spd.
Why the hell do some companies feel the need to reinvent the wheel. I don't see why changing things just for the sake of changing them is a good idea. My 3 cents.

Indeed Version 3 was well explained in MBA magazine. I was amazed how simple and efficient the design is. Even more amazed that nobody thought of that until now.

The only problem: it is limited to 8-9 gears.

So the question is, could this technology make its way to all mountain or even XC biking? Maybe, but somebody has to find a way to put a derailleur on the drive side and keep the sprockets "floating" to keep the short chain alligned. Clearly the derailleur has to float also! I bet it is a matter of time before they nail this.


The deraileur already floats. And it would be difficult to incorporate into a non boxed system. G-boxx and not honda are trying to come out with these ideas. Will they see the light of day...doubt it, they would have to be cheap.

Mael,

No rear derailleur is spring loaded but fixed! For a 27 gear combination the front derailleur has to float with the drive sprokets (in adition to shifting between the 3 sprokets) in order to keep the short chain aligned. If you look at the MBA article it will be more clear, I think.

I don't give MBA my money. I thought you were talking the rear deraileur which doesn't 'kind of' float. The whole front would have to float as well. I understand what you were saying now.

i dont think this bike is "limited to 8 or 9 gears", because there are almost no dh bikes that have more thatn 9. I also read that this new gear box can shift with out pedaling because the internals are always moving. just like the crazy top secret last one.

Rohollf acts like that too. Perfect for dh

whats rohollf?

Its an internally gear 8spd (maybe 7) hub. Great systems, strong and allows shifting without pedalling

ok, do any bike companys sell bikes with those on them?

nicolai. Generally an aftermarket item. It makes the bike a little unbalanced to the rear so companies that stock them on bikes tend to have a gearing systems based in the centre with a ss hub on the back. (using it like a gearbox instead of the hub)

centre
hahaha, why do canadians spell like this?

Because it is the proper way. Americans took the proper spelling and made it all phoenetic so you didn't have to learn to spell correctly.

Colour, Labour etc...

we are quite lazy down here.

metre, litre, etc

anyways - great thread, thanks mael. i remember an article about honda's gearbox system from months back when it was still the cam-based system, didnt realise just rolling the bike backwards would trash it. i kinda liked the cam idea, at least that would justify huge research costs and high secrecy - this is kindof an anticlimax.

well then again... why would you ride a strictly dh bike backwards?

for the truly core - backwards dh racing!!!

So you have the sweetest looking street rig.

Ok so what's the deal with this bike? I know it costs like $100K but that's about it (and this funky derailleur stuff)

Who rides it and can you even buy it?
Also, pictoors?

You couldn't buy it. But rumour has it there will be a production model

This current bike is not 100k. The one the CVT drive train system was as it used a very unique drive system. They got rid of that in favour of this.

Because it is the proper way. Americans took the proper spelling and made it all phoenetic so you didn't have to learn to spell correctly.

Colour, Labour etc...

Same as down here. Another is tire/tyre.

Ok so what's the deal with this bike? I know it costs like $100K but that's about it (and this funky derailleur stuff)

Who rides it and can you even buy it?
Also, pictoors?

Greg Minaar rode it and also a group of Japanese riders rode it in the Japanese series in 2003 I think. The bike which was worth that much used an extremely technical gearbox system of cams and non'round gears and othger freaky stuff which I don't even want to start to comprehend.

I remember there was some Austrialian bike company that did kind of the same thing. What they did is frankensteined a hub shifter and crank together.

If you think about, anyone could build something that like in there garage. :D

The original system was nuts. It used some system of a cam with a variable end so that by moving the end (changing the leverage) it would "shift" gears. The problem was do to the oscillating motion, it also needed gears that were not round but cut in an octagon. To add even more tech to the mix, the system would be destroyed if the bike was rolled backwards, so the freewheel on the rear wheel only engage under power and not the rear wheel rotating backwards. Nuts x 4363412854174

Yep, nuts as is, it was a very interesting design, and one I wish they kept working on. Given it was decades ahead of it's time, but still you have to have a pet project right? :D

i dont think this bike is "limited to 8 or 9 gears", because there are almost no dh bikes that have more thatn 9. I also read that this new gear box can shift with out pedaling because the internals are always moving. just like the crazy top secret last one.

It can shift without pedaling because the cranks freewheel so the chain is always moving (if the bike is moving).

Ok so what's the deal with this bike? I know it costs like $100K but that's about it (and this funky derailleur stuff)

Who rides it and can you even buy it?
Also, pictoors?

The transmission used was actually cam-driven instead of multi-cog driven. When the crank was turned, it would move a set of gears that caused an array of cams to pulse up and down, these pulses turned levers, which in turn moved a flywheel, which was fed directly to a chain going to your rear wheel.

The flywheel was a special semi-round, semi octagonal design created to remove the "pulsations" that the cam levers created when the bike was moving.

from my understanding, there was also a freewheel system on the flywheel which kept the transmission from being conter-rotated, reason for this is the cam levers would not like this, and probably munch themselves.

As far as the actual gear shifting, there was an obscenely cocmplex system that altered the rate of the cam pulses...more cam pulses is akin to a higher gear. Best part was a single friction shifter was all that was needed to control this mechanical monstrosity.

Like others said, this is one very complex unit. Only a handful of the CVT trannies existed, and people who could maintain them were even fewer, all adding to the costs of this bike.

And yes, I'm a Honda CVT Junkie...It's (at least to me) one of the biggest innovations I've heard of period...so I'm pretty much sprung on any info I can get on it.

Catatonic,

you need to hop on ridemonkey. DW has done some impressive engineering posts regarding the system and its problems vs its benefits. Brilliant system being transferred into pedal based gearing.

sweet, I might do so later today...I got to leave for work in 20 mins...so I'm trying to go through all the new posts :)

What tripped me out was Honda went for a cam driven system instead of an eccentric belt driven system. It was almost as if they chose the single most difficult (yet most durable when used right) path.