Fifty Plus (50+) - CO2 Inflator Questions

Santa brought me a Ultraflate Plus - 16 oz CO2 inflator for Christmas. Of course I couldn't resist installing the cylinder and playing with my new toy.

Here's my question. Now that this seal has been punctured will the device hole pressure or will it slowly leak out over time?

Or, would I be better off putting the inflator and a virgin cylinder in to my bike pouch and only install the cylindar when I need to inflate a tire?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

I have no idea how long a punctured cylinder will hold pressure in the inflator, but I wouldn't bet on tomorrow. I don't think there's any point in carrying anything but virgin, unpunctured cylinders with you.

What kind of bike? 16 oz. is enough to inflate a road bike to roughly full operating pressure. The CO2 leaks out much more rapidly than air, however, so you'll have to top off your tire the next morning. When you're fixing a flat on the road, after you install your new inner tube, carefully check both beads all the way around to be sure the tube isn't caught under the tire bead. Once you start inflation using the CO2 it only takes a second or two to inflate the tire so if you've pinched a tube there's no stopping to adjust the tire and start over.

I "pre punctured" a cartridge once. They do leak, although its pretty slow.

There's definitely an art to using CO2 cartridges, and it's worth spending a few bucks and learn how to use them in your nice warm home. Like RG said, it's easy to pinch-flat, so to speak, unless you're very careful.

I "pre punctured" a cartridge once. They do leak, although its pretty slow.

There's definitely an art to using CO2 cartridges, and it's worth spending a few bucks and learn how to use them in your nice warm home. Like RG said, it's easy to pinch-flat, so to speak, unless you're very careful.

Yes, it's a good idea to practice and it's a good idea to have more than one cartridge with you on the road. Nothing more miserable than being in the middle of nowhere having already spent your only cartridge:cry:

How long the pressure will hold depends on the quality of the inflator, but yes that cylinder is toast. You should carry two new cylinders and only puncture them when they are needed.

They'll go flat pretty fast once you puncture them.

I buy them in bulk on the internet. Lots cheaper than bike shops and it's the same CO2. ;)

J.

JohnJ80, do you get them from Planet Bike?

Nope - not planet bike, why?

Actually I was asking JohnJ where he got his in bulk. but I am looking for sources. Going to get a Giant Defy 1 soon...probably wait until after my hand surgery and recovery, but I'll want some in case of flats...easier than pumping a tire up from zero.

Actually I was asking JohnJ where he got his in bulk. but I am looking for sources. Going to get a Giant Defy 1 soon...probably wait until after my hand surgery and recovery, but I'll want some in case of flats...easier than pumping a tire up from zero.

Free shipping

http://www.redrockminnesota.com/servlet/the-214/%2820%29-16-Gram-Threaded/Detail

JohnJ80, do you get them from Planet Bike?

No. I just google it and look for the cheapest. Here's another example:

http://www.gas-depot.com/products.html#ecwid:category=1468751&mode=category&offset=0&sort=normal

item $15.90
Ship $ 9.54
Total $25.44

I get them from Redrock also, but through Amazon; just over $1 each. Having a good inflator will prevent having a CO2 failure destroy a ride. I highly recommend this one: Portland Design Works Shiny Object CO2 Inflator (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003M2PNGY/ref=wms_ohs_product). Having a knob, instead of a press to fill, lets you control inflation, so you can inflate the tube slightly to avoid tube pinches, just as you would if using a pump.

How is a knob to twist any better than a trigger?

How is a knob to twist any better than a trigger?

Don't know that it is, as I haven't used one with a trigger, although clearly the knob allows you to let go, as it fills at a controlled rate, thereby not freezing your fingers (plus the one I mentioned has a leather tube to slip over the CO2 canister to protect your hand from the cold). I was comparing the knob design to those where you press the inflator over the valve stem to release the CO2. I found that approach more prone to failure, especially if you neglect to open the valve (Doh!) It's either open or closed, and by the time you realize the valve is closed, the canister 'ist kaput'. If you have merely cracked open the knob, and realize you didn't open the valve, that's a 'recoverable incident'. Of course, due to my feeble mind, I now always remove the valve stem cover and open the valve before I store a tube in my saddle bag. That way it's ready to go, saving time and preventing any chance of my trying to inflate the tire with the valve closed.

Easier to control. For instance, you can easily just dribble the gas into the tube. I also feel that if you have to nurse a tube home - say a leak that your sealant didn't' get, you can seal it up better to keep the remaining gas in the cartridge long enough to get home.

Also, most of the knob ones (Planet Bike, Portland Design, and my favorite - Silca) tend to be the smallest and lightest. Small is good.

J.

There are several different CO-2 inflators and some seem to have better O rings than others. Some also have triggers that allow slower inflation. I have a friend that has one that seems to hold C0-2 for at least one or two days. I have an Air Chuck ands once puncture the C0-2 it is pretty much done.

In an unrelated story I have had a CO-2 that was still intact and once punctured it turned out to be empty. :eek: I had another cartrage but thank goodness I had a pump as well.

I have a bunch of cartridges, so many I have given them away on rides. There is a baggie full on the table for our daughter who started riding this last year. And I still have more than I can ever use. I own a fire equipment company. Two of the brands of fire suppression systems use 12 and 16 gram cartridges, which are replaced every 6 months. I am not comfortable tossing the pressurized cartrideges in the trash or recycle bin. And no, I will not send you some. I don't ship haz mat. But, if you are a customer of a suppression system company, they may give you some.

I am not a fan of CO2 carts. Yes, they are faster than pumping the tire by hand, but you have to execute perfectly, and they don't hold pressure. I think someone explained that CO2 leaks more readily from innertubes (smaller molecules than Oxygen?), but I figure that if the CO2 required to make your tire the size it's supposed to be under pressure is compressible enough to fit into that tiny cylinder, then it's not going to resist the pressure of your body weight as well as if you filled the tube with real air. In other words, why don't they fill those tiny cartridges with air instead of with CO2? Because it won't fit. But because CO2 is compressible enough to fit, then by that nature it will not hold your tire shape very well.

I still carry a full-size frame pump. Free air, and it keeps you warm on cold days.

L.

I am not a fan of CO2 carts. Yes, they are faster than pumping the tire by hand, but you have to execute perfectly, and they don't hold pressure. I think someone explained that CO2 leaks more readily from innertubes (smaller molecules than Oxygen?), but I figure that if the CO2 required to make your tire the size it's supposed to be under pressure is compressible enough to fit into that tiny cylinder, then it's not going to resist the pressure of your body weight as well as if you filled the tube with real air. In other words, why don't they fill those tiny cartridges with air instead of with CO2? Because it won't fit. But because CO2 is compressible enough to fit, then by that nature it will not hold your tire shape very well.

I still carry a full-size frame pump. Free air, and it keeps you warm on cold days.

L.

It's not the space, it's the form, your tire holds gas, a cartridge holds liquid CO2 which is at very high pressure, when you use the cartridge the CO2 turns from liquid to gas as the pressure is reduced to the point where it becomes gasious, but it doesn't all turn to gas at the same point, as long as there is some liquid in the cartridge, it will hold pressure, and inflate your tire. This is why CO2 is used rather then air, which will not compress into a liquid.

Why CO2 leaks out of a tire faster then air, that's a good question, as long as it stays in long enough to get your ride completed, it doesn't really matter.

+1

IIRC, the "leak" issue has to do with the relative partial pressures of each gas on each side of the Butyl barrier. Air is the same gas mix inside and out while CO2 is not. But I don't always IIRC well. ;-) I always just let most of the CO2 out when I get home, and pump it back up with air. Tires lose CO2 about twice as fast as they lose air, which isn't very fast. And, by the way, pressure is pressure. The CO2 holds you up just the same as the air does. And if you want to lose air fast, go with latex tubes!

I found an inexpensive but very well made CO2 inflation head and bulk cartridges at Amazon last year. I always have an un-punctured cartridge threaded on but not broken and 2 spares in my under-seat bag along with a spare folding tire and tube. I hate to push or carry a bicycle something fierce.

Bill

I found an inexpensive but very well made Co2 inflation head and bulk cartridges at Amazon last year. I always have an unpunctured cartridge threaded on but not broken and 2 spares in my under-seat bag...

I do the same. My inflator is designed with a hole in the bottom of the container part, so you can insert a cartridge upside down and still screw the top on fully. The nipple on the cartridge sticks out the hole in the bottom. When I need to use it, I unscrew it, turn the cartridge around and rescrew it. That lets me carry one more cartridge than I would have been able to otherwise for the same amount of space taken in my bag.

Resurrecting an old thread.

Today on a ride, my CO2 inflator would only manage to inflate my tire to (my guess) 60 psi. First my tire was a little soft, so I tried cartridge 1 to no avail. Later, decided to replace tube preemptively at a rest stop, same thing with cartridge 2. Later on, I had an actual flat, and cartridge 3 no better. I can't imagine my inflator being bad, only used it maybe 20 times. Cartridges seemed fine, had CO2 left in them. Just couldn't get my tires hard.:eek:

Bad inflator?

I had some bad experiences with CO2 inflators last year. Perhaps I was holding the inflator in the wrong position (not vertical), but the cold CO2 froze the inner tube during inflation, which then cracked. I got myself a good hand pump. But I think a better inflator with the ability to control the flow rate better, and improved operator technique, might be called for.

The Fly,
What size CO2 cartridge were you using? The smaller 12oz. volume cartridges won't inflate the tire much past the 60psi you got. I went to the 16oz. cartridges a few years ago, I get right at 100psi in my 700X25 Gatorskins using the inflator. The more volume you get the more they cartridges cost, keep this in mind if you decide to look into them. I found a bulk package with 50-16oz. threaded cartridges at Amazon, it saved me some money. The threaded cartridges do cost more than the unthreaded, I have seen 24 and 36oz cartridges but the 36oz and up are bigger in their physical size to, I believe.

Hope this information can help you out if you want more psi from your inflator.

Bill

Edit: I consider the inflator's air charge to be temporary, just to get me home, as Maxx said below. When I get home I inflate to the full operating pressure.

http://www.probikeoutlet.com/22394-25506-thickbox/planet-bike-red-zeppelin-inflator-head-only.jpg

Not all CO2 inflators are created equal. The Red Zeppelin solves most inflator problems. It has a needle valve (large red knob) to control or stop the inflation. It screws to the stem to prevent position errors (operator error). The threaded cartridge threads in an punctures at that time (after you are installed on the stem). If you put a couple of layers of tape over the threaded 16 cartridge you will have some insulation for your hand after the cartridge gets cold. It's really small and light. Wrap your cartridges in an old sock or something so they don't rattle around. Perhaps some sort of "bandoleer" on your frame to hold spare rounds. :lol:

2 16's to fill an MTB tire and 1 to fill a road tire long enough to get you home. Refill with air as soon as possible.

Buy a decent pump. Cheaper in the long run, works more reliably (less prone to operator error) and much more environmentally sound.

I started out using CO2 cartridges. before one charity ride I noticed the tire was low so I inflated it with a cartridge - valve froze and broke off. put in new tire, inflated but it pinched and blew. able to buy another cartridge and tube got it going and rode 60 miles worried that I was going to flat again. Next day I went out and bought a good hand pump. Since then I've helped maybe 1/2dozen riders who have gone through their co2 cartridges trying to correctly fill a tire. On really long rides I'll carry both a CO2 and pump.

Now, there's a man who understands the advantages of both.

I am trying this combo pump. Both a hand pump and uses cartridges. Have not yet had a flat to test it.

Genuine Innovations 2nd Wind Road Carbon Mini.”

After having at least 2 mini pumps fail or just plain break, I use CO2 carts. It is also easy to break off stems with a mini pump unless you have the kind with a hose. I so still carry a mini pump but only for back up.

And yes once punctured, cart will leak down fairly rapidly. Dont depend on one already used.

The Fly,
What size CO2 cartridge were you using? The smaller 12oz. volume cartridges won't inflate the tire much past the 60psi you got. I went to the 16oz. cartridges a few years ago, I get right at 100psi in my 700X25 Gatorskins using the inflator. The more volume you get the more they cartridges cost, keep this in mind if you decide to look into them. I found a bulk package with 50-16oz. threaded cartridges at Amazon, it saved me some money. The threaded cartridges do cost more than the unthreaded, I have seen 24 and 36oz cartridges but the 36oz and up are bigger in their physical size to, I believe.

Hope this information can help you out if you want more psi from your inflator.

Bill

Edit: I consider the inflator's air charge to be temporary, just to get me home, as Maxx said below. When I get home I inflate to the full operating pressure.

I use the 16g cartridges on 700x23 tires. Up until yesterday (@ 20 flats with CO2) I'd only had 1 problem using CO2 that was entirely user error. Then all of a sudden, 3 times in a row, I can only get up to about 60psi. My inflator uses the threaded cartridges. I would thread them on to break seal, then slowly unthread to blow up tire. Never had a problem. Yesterday, 3 times after about 60psi, no more inflation. However, if I kept loosening the inflator, CO2 would come rushing out around the threads, so cartridges weren't the problem.

I buy my CO2 thru amazon, my LBS is 3.50 a cartridge which is ridiculous. I'm a clyde and started using CO2 when I was plagued by pinch flats 30+ lbs ago. My mini pump at the time would wear me out and only get up to maybe 90-100 psi.

I'm seriously considering another pump, but I really like the CO2. Plus, I already feel like a pack mule when I go out on a ride. After loosing some weight, now riding a carbon bike carrying enough water for a pool party with enough supplies to last me through the winter. Still need to loose 25-30 lbs. Carbon bike now seems ridiculous, I may as well be riding one made of cast iron.

Took a real close look at my inflator, and I think the o-ring where the cart screws in may be on its last legs. I managed to blow up a tire fairly hard, but I couldn't unscrew the cart as much as I used to. It took quite a bit longer to blow up. Usually it would blow up a tire in a few seconds. Takes maybe 3 times as long. Unscrew like normal and CO2 goes everywhere, much like it happened on the road. Oh well. Time for a new inflator I guess. Really should have lasted longer.

TF,
I think that you are on to your problem, it seems to be the mechanism in the inflator, not the cartridge volume. I did not realize you were using the type of inflator head you have. Mine is the type with a "trigger" on it so the seal between the head and the cartridge stays unaffected, if I understand what you are saying. That design sounds kind of lacking in its control over the CO2 flow once you have the cartridge screwed on to the inflator.

It sounds like you got the same bulk threaded cartridges that I did at Amazon. And my LBS, as good as they are, also gets $3.50 per cartridge, for the threaded type. I think that if you get a trigger equipped inflator instead of just the screw on control head you will be okay. A 16oz cartridge should pump a 700X23 tire up to 100psi easily, and then some.

Bill

I bought a CO2 inflator and some cartridges for my road bike a little over a year ago. Last summer, on one of our charity rides, a teammate had a flat and did not have a pump or inflator with him. We changed the tube and charged the inflator to fill it when the SAG vehicle came by. He decided to use their floor pump so I had a charged inflator that I put back in my saddle bag. Last month I got my very first flat (after 12,000 miles) and decided to use the cartridge that was already in the inflator. It filled the tube with no problem. When I got back to the van, I attached my floor pump, to replace the CO2, and it indicated 85 psi. I normally ride on 95 psi on my 25 cm Gatorskins. I use twist on cartridges.