Commuting - Car Drivers not yielding right of way to cyclists

I've been experiencing this quite often, and it's quite alarming. Drivers see me coming and don't yield the right of way, probably because they think they can make the turn fast enough and cyclists don't have the same rights as cars. Do you experience this too?

So now I'm very careful at cross streets and intersections. I generally slow down and try to make eye contact, but even when they see me, some drivers pull out anyway. Grrrrh! I'm thinking of getting one of those Airzound horns (although I read they don't last and may not work in cold temps) or use my whistle routinely. Any other tactics?

How do you know that they see you coming? In some cases, one can "see" but not be aware of what is in your line of sight. Perhaps you need a bit more visibility. I wear HiViz and usually have lights running and have not had a problem with cars yielding.

-G

I've got the hi viz vest, lights and flashers going. Maybe I need to be going even faster.

What position are you taking within your lane?

Drivers often filter out anything near the curb, looking only where they expect to see other vehicles. You could be lit up like a Christmas tree, but if you're too far to the right, they'll unconsciously ignore you as "not traffic."

It's generally safest for bicycles to be near the center of the lane at intersections -- it increases your visibility to motorists, and increases your sight-line down cross-roads to your right.

Get a large bus and paint the front of it to blend with the color of the road, then paint a cyclist on the front and have blinking light etc. Drive along slowly like a cyclist and when someone doesn't yield just floor it and mow them down.

When the deputy asks how it happened you can say "I think he/she didn't see me".

Where I live, nearly all cyclists are the kind of people who do it because they can't afford a car. (Not that there's anything wrong with that). They tend to move a lot slower than those of us who do it for the exercise or just prefer it to driving. I think drivers are conditioned to cyclists moving at 5 or 6 mph, and sometimes they think they have more time than they really do to make their move. Of course, it's their responsibility to observe and accurately judge the speed of others on the road, but some prefer to drive "unencumbered by the thought process."

I don't know what you can really do other than be very visible and very vigilant.

Jim

What position are you taking within your lane?

Drivers often filter out anything near the curb, looking only where they expect to see other vehicles. You could be lit up like a Christmas tree, but if you're too far to the right, they'll unconsciously ignore you as "not traffic."

It's generally safest for bicycles to be near the center of the lane at intersections -- it increases your visibility to motorists, and increases your sight-line down cross-roads to your right.

Very good point. Taking the center of the lane will probably go a long way towards increasing visibility. I'll "take the lane" sooner when I see an intersection coming up.

often times a motorist will see a cyclist, but they simply do not accurately gauge a cyclist's speed.
often times, people see a bicyclist and they think they are going 10mph.

conversely, I'm especially annoyed when I'm climbing a steep hill, pedaling out of the saddle, when a motorist waits at an intersection for me to pass, as if.... what?
because they see me out of the saddle, it looks like I'm sprinting or something... never mind the 8% gradient, which most people do not know how much effort it takes to pedal at 10mph for even 1/4 mile.

downhill descent on a 4% gradient, most people hardly notice the descent, much less are cognizant of a bicyclist traveling at 25mph, the are apt to pull out in front of you. they simply have a hard time judging time and distance.


my pet peeve are city buses. of course bus stops are located near corners. corners are where intersections are located. often times, a bus passes by hard on the gas, only to pull over in front of you, for a bus stop. Luckily I don't live in an area where I have to fight bus traffic.

I think the problem is that most driver's are so used to looking only for motor vehicle traffic, when they should also be looking for cyclists. Also, most drivers don't realize just how much distance the "average" cyclist can cover, as I found out when I got hit a few years ago.

The solution: Always assume that the driver doesn't see you/misjudges how far away you are and ride accordingly.

often times a motorist will see a cyclist, but they simply do not accurately gauge a cyclist's speed.
often times, people see a bicyclist and they think they are going 10mph.

That's what usually happens to me. They see a "fat" guy on a bike and assume I'm doing 10kph. (I can hit 40kph on some roads.) So they turn in front of me forcing me to slam the breaks. They are usually then shocked that I caught up to them.

I think the problem is that most driver's are so used to looking only for motor vehicle traffic, when they should also be looking for cyclists. Also, most drivers don't realize just how much distance the "average" cyclist can cover, as I found out when I got hit a few years ago.

The solution: Always assume that the driver doesn't see you/misjudges how far away you are and ride accordingly.

I also learned this the hard way many years ago. I got right hooked when a car (who signalled at the last possible moment) cut through the bike lane to enter a parking lot. He only saw me when his bumper was bending the rear of my frame.

I live in a very cyclist-aware city, but yesterday I had a couple close calls from people trying to take a right across the bike lane too close (can ya wait like 3 seconds?). Nice thing about being on a bike is that the anger dissipates fast, rather than getting cage rage.

Grrrrh! I'm thinking of getting one of those Airzound horns (although I read they don't last and may not work in cold temps) or use my whistle routinely. Any other tactics?

It's tempting to express your frustration, but sometimes it just leads to more annoyance, then anger, then a worse situation. Thank whoever/whatever you believe in and move on. It's not a good idea to provoke someone surrounded in 2-ton, fast-moving armor.

Airzound horn, but only to grab attention/if you need it. Using a horn to antagonize just makes you a jackhole... Works in ~40f just fine, I had to sound it on an SUV the other day. It's more useful for people that get too close rather than right hooks.


But in the end, better to just avoid the cars than to be dead right.

Being visible is definetely one of the best things you can do (lane positioning, lights, & clothing). However, just going more slowly through an intersection (within reason) works as well.

Visibility is important. I know, not from interviews of drivers but just by before and after observation, that since I started using a magicshine on flash during my ride home that drivers don't pull out on me as often. The bright flashing light is rather insistent in its call for attention.

Get a large bus and paint the front of it to blend with the color of the road, then paint a cyclist on the front and have blinking light etc. Drive along slowly like a cyclist and when someone doesn't yield just floor it and mow them down.

When the deputy asks how it happened you can say "I think he/she didn't see me".

I drive a bus and people cut left in front of us all the time. I have even heard it called a "Boston Left".And you would be amazed how many times a car pulls out in front of a bus an gets in an accident and when the officer asked the driver of the car what happened They tell the officer "I didn't see the bus".
Lessons for cyclist: People are in too much of a hurry and too self centered to wait 5 seconds in traffic on someone else. No matter how big you are, how many lights you have, or were you are in the lane (My bus takes up 8 1/2 feet of it) the same people won't see you.
I drive for a university and I notice that the cyclist around campus are more likely to run stop signs, red lights and just generally pass on the left or right in slow traffic to get around me than cars. Since I generally follow the rules of the road I really want to reach out an strangle some of these people and tell them how close they came to getting injured.

Being visible is definetely one of the best things you can do (lane positioning, lights, & clothing). However, just going more slowly through an intersection (within reason) works as well.



........And you would be amazed how many times a car pulls out in front of a bus an gets in an accident and when the officer asked the driver of the car what happened They tell the officer "I didn't see the bus".Lessons for cyclist: People are in too much of a hurry and too self centered to wait 5 seconds in traffic on someone else. No matter how big you are, how many lights you have, or were you are in the lane......

I have come to the conclusion that we are solely responsible for our own safety on the road, and we cannot trust any driver to look out for us. Slow down at intersections and survive to ride another day. Some people are indeed in too much of a hurry and too self centered, but most simple "zone out" while driving and are too consumed by the radio or their cell phone to notice us. And now they are putting DVD player in cars.......

I drive a bus [...] for a university and I notice that the cyclist around campus are more likely to [...] pass on the left or right in slow traffic to get around me than cars. Since I generally follow the rules of the road I really want to reach out an strangle some of these people and tell them how close they came to getting injured.

I'm interested in your perspective here as a bus driver. What is it about a cyclist passing on the left that is a problem?

I try to avoid playing leapfrog with buses, but sometimes I know the traffic conditions and bus route well enough to know that I will be able to pass and keep ahead of a bus, so I will pass on the left (non-curb side) when it is loading passengers at a stop. Am I unwittingly being dangerous?

from around here, all I can say about passing a stopped bus is that they can move left in a hurry. So hugging the side of the bus is a really bad idea. Otherwise, I figure the left is the correct side to pass.

You better get used to it.....

Very good point. Taking the center of the lane will probably go a long way towards increasing visibility. I'll "take the lane" sooner when I see an intersection coming up.

Good thinking.

Make yourself as visible as possible but assume that you are still invisible.

I've had drivers look right at me, right in my eyes and still pull out in front of me. It's a rare occurrence but it happens- and all it takes is once when you're not ready to take evasive action and you're toast.

I have come to the conclusion that we are solely responsible for our own safety on the road, and we cannot trust any driver to look out for us. Slow down at intersections and survive to ride another day. Some people are indeed in too much of a hurry and too self centered, but most simple "zone out" while driving and are too consumed by the radio or their cell phone to notice us. And now they are putting DVD player in cars.......

And many cyclists are in the same impatient hurry...I try to make sure I never have myself in a time crunch on my bike. Going TO work, I don't really have a clock issue, unless I have a meeting to get to, since I am in the "exempt" ranks. But going home, I am very careful about what I have scheduled after work. Usually, if I have evening plans, I will drive my car (much as I hate to) so that I don't get in a pinch time-wise. Too many close calls trying to hustle home.

Today my wife had to drive me to the hospital for a test. I noticed some things, now I have to figger out how to diplomatically suggest that she might consider the possibility that maybe there could be a few habits that might be able to be changed. Cycling has certainly changed the way I drive, she just doesn't ride around cars as much as I do, I guess...

When I drove (sold last car in '04), and now when I ride -- even when I'm WALKING somewhere! -- I operate on the assumption that any driver in my proximity will, without warning, do the most thoughtless, rude, and selfish thing imaginable. I have only been pleasantly surprised, and that, rarely....

HOW THE 'F' CAN A DRIVER "NOT SEE THE BUS"?!? It's BIIIIG, it's usually COLORFUL, and you can't see a lot of OTHER things BECAUSE of it! W...T...F..........?

SOME people just shouldn't be driving, DAMN their inconvenience. I remember years and years ago, someone asked about qualifications for driving; I said then that they shouldn't drive if they can't take care of the car, either -- which would exclude ALL handicapped drivers, it was pointed out to me. That was about my only exception to feeling that way, then AND now.

Part of the problem is that many motorists simply do not understand the rules of the road! Bike, car, SUV, 18 wheeler, and heavy haul no matter what I've been driving I have had bozos turn into or across my lane of travel when I had the right of way.

It is amazing what we don't see. Regardless of whether or not you are cycling, driving, boating or flying. Our processors can do amazing things in weeding out the "noise." Unfortunately, some folks process buses, motorcycles, cyclists, and pedestrians as "noise." Not necessarily consciously, but we can get processed out. We simply have to be as defensive as possible, for at some level we cannot overcome this unconscious processing that goes on.

Many studies have been done to determine the ability of the human eye-brain processor to weed out chaff and find the important stuff. But we can also, all of us, manage to weed out the buses and cyclists. Ever tried to go in the out door - push on the "pull" handle? I used to referee soccer, and a huge amount of the training at higher levels was being able to "see" and not just "look."

It takes a lot of effort to drive safely. I submit that most folks are never taught that. We, WE, as a society put kids out there behind the wheel with never any more training. No training beyond high school, and we expect forty-year-olds to drive well. In effect we train them to be rude, impatient, and inconsiderate. I notice it as I drive - I have an SUV with a stick shift, and drive it like I don't like to burn gas. The folks that hide behind my spare tire (the one on the back of the rig) are amazing - the extra ten seconds it takes me to get up to speed just blows the minds of some drivers.

Maybe the approach that drivers are just like us, and would be more like us if they rode bikes, would lower the irritation level a bit. I agree, we have to make sure that we stay safe, and I would never presume that a car does the right thing. The consequences are too high. I love to ride, so I have to find some way to not be constantly irritated by drivers or my riding doesn't be fun any more.

Hugely obnoxious, and unbelievably common. I think most drivers assume all cyclists go 4 mph.

whenever possible i ride them down and "talk" to them. the threat of vehicular assault is not something i take lightly.

I've been riding faster and taking the lane sooner, and so far car drivers have not been cutting out in front of me lately at cross streets. But a persistent problem is when I'm at a 4 way intersection with a couple of cars in front of me are turning, and I'm planning to go straight through, but the car on the other side of intersection who is turning to his left, more often than not cuts me off instead of waiting for me to go through the intersection. In this situation, I don't have speed built up, so they feel entitled take my right of way away. Once I sprinted across the intersection, and my front tire met the front bumper of a car accompanied with my "what the heck are you doing? gesture.

I'm interested in your perspective here as a bus driver. What is it about a cyclist passing on the left that is a problem?

I try to avoid playing leapfrog with buses, but sometimes I know the traffic conditions and bus route well enough to know that I will be able to pass and keep ahead of a bus, so I will pass on the left (non-curb side) when it is loading passengers at a stop. Am I unwittingly being dangerous?
Generally the problem of passing on the left is I'm not looking for you there because we generally expect cyclist to ride as far right as practical. If I'm in stop and go traffic it means you are probably crossing double yellow line or your riding between the lanes of traffic. about ten years ago one of our drivers ran over a rollerblader that was doing this when he clipped a cars mirror and fell under a bus that was only going about 3mph, the kid survived but was in serious condition and the driver was really shaken up.
I don't mind if a rider passes me at a stop. In fact I will usually sit in the stop a little longer so they can get far enough ahead of me so I don't have to pass them again, although I have been guilty of chasing a cyclist to get a better look at the bike. Personally when I ride usually wait for the bus unless I know I can be seen by the driver, and being a driver I know were I have to be and its really close to the side of the bus, but there is always that moment when I know for a split second I'm in the blind spot.
I know it gets preached a lot in these threads but predictability is the key to safe riding nd sharing the road with motorist. Unfortunately trying to get college kids to be predicable is nearly impossible.I have thought of getting a videio camera and mounting it in my window just to show people how stupid cyclist, jogers, walkers, skateboarders and motorist can be around a place of higher learning.
Didn't mean to hijack a thread thanks for letting me rant but I just got off work and the BIKE ride home was a little too short to calm me down tonight.

It is amazing what we don't see. Regardless of whether or not you are cycling, driving, boating or flying. Our processors can do amazing things in weeding out the "noise." Unfortunately, some folks process buses, motorcycles, cyclists, and pedestrians as "noise." Not necessarily consciously, but we can get processed out. We simply have to be as defensive as possible, for at some level we cannot overcome this unconscious processing that goes on.

Many studies have been done to determine the ability of the human eye-brain processor to weed out chaff and find the important stuff. But we can also, all of us, manage to weed out the buses and cyclists. Ever tried to go in the out door - push on the "pull" handle? I used to referee soccer, and a huge amount of the training at higher levels was being able to "see" and not just "look."

It takes a lot of effort to drive safely. I submit that most folks are never taught that. We, WE, as a society put kids out there behind the wheel with never any more training. No training beyond high school, and we expect forty-year-olds to drive well. In effect we train them to be rude, impatient, and inconsiderate. I notice it as I drive - I have an SUV with a stick shift, and drive it like I don't like to burn gas. The folks that hide behind my spare tire (the one on the back of the rig) are amazing - the extra ten seconds it takes me to get up to speed just blows the minds of some drivers.

Maybe the approach that drivers are just like us, and would be more like us if they rode bikes, would lower the irritation level a bit. I agree, we have to make sure that we stay safe, and I would never presume that a car does the right thing. The consequences are too high. I love to ride, so I have to find some way to not be constantly irritated by drivers or my riding doesn't be fun any more.+1

I know it gets preached a lot in these threads but predictability is the key to safe riding nd sharing the road with motorist. Unfortunately trying to get college kids to be predicable is nearly impossible.I have thought of getting a videio camera and mounting it in my window just to show people how stupid cyclist, jogers, walkers, skateboarders and motorist can be around a place of higher learning.
Didn't mean to hijack a thread thanks for letting me rant but I just got off work and the BIKE ride home was a little too short to calm me down tonight.It's not just college kids. How can cyclists be predictable when there's not even a consensus among cyclists about what the right way to ride is? Even among experts, there's no agreement - just go to A&S, and particularly to Vehicular Cycling and read the endless arguments about how we should behave.

I think that typically, drivers don't see the cyclist who they cut off. Their eyes may be looking at the cyclist, but the brain doesn't process. Drivers primarily see other cars, trucks, buses, and police (cars and motorcycles). They don't see motorcyclists, bicyclists, runners, skateboarders, etc.

There's only a few things you can do when entering an intersection. I wear a helmet headlamp, not a super-bright one, and shine it at the oncoming driver's face for a second. Blinking headlights help to, there is research on this for motorcycles. Bright clothing. I totally agree with taking the middle of the road. What also works is to time yourself across the intersection so that a car, or preferably a main battle tank, crosses with you.

Finally, you always think "what will I do when he turns left in front of me?". Is my escape a hard, countersteered right turn; maximum braking; a left-right swerve? On the (motor) bike, I think about that every time I go through an intersection. No lie.

Personally, I think cyclist should all be authorized to carry paint pistols with permanent yellow pigment. Mark the **** heads and warn others......

I wear a helmet headlamp, not a super-bright one, and shine it at the oncoming driver's face for a second. Blinking headlights help to, there is research on this for motorcycles..

I did this once, making SURE the light shone on the driver...and the ASS STILL CUT ME OFF, PULLING OUT FROM A STOP SIGN WHEN I WAS FIFTEEN FEET FROM HIM! A disc-brake-enhanced panic stop was punctuated with an equally panicky, full-volume profanity, right at the closed window. Idiot pulled through the intersection, stopped fifty feet down the street, and tried to excuse his stupidity: "I DIDN'T SEE YOU! YOU NEED LIGHTS ON!" I pointed to my helmet-mounted, bright light, and yelled back, "WHAT DO YOU CALL THIS, *****?!?"


Personally, I think cyclist should all be authorized to carry paint pistols with permanent yellow pigment. Mark the **** heads and warn others......

Ohhh, the fantasies I've had about THAT idea.......... With little self-adhesive ribbons inside the paintball that stick to the window and read, "STUPID!"

I think the problem is that most driver's are so used to looking only for motor vehicle traffic, when they should also be looking for cyclists. Also, most drivers don't realize just how much distance the "average" cyclist can cover, as I found out when I got hit a few years ago.

The solution: Always assume that the driver doesn't see you/misjudges how far away you are and ride accordingly.

+1. My mantra - MSTDASY*

* Make Sure the Dumb Ass Sees You . . .

I ride home in the dusk if I get out at a decent hour, so I have my light on my bar on steady, my MagicShine on my helmet on flash. Had two cars actually put themselves into reverse and back away from the crosswalk today. Although I trust none (the stakes are rather high), I actually believe most drivers would like to do the right thing...and being as obnoxiously visible as possible is one way I try to help them out.

Easy Peasy, do you stop pedaling as you approach the motorist? To them, this may be a signal that you are yielding.

Try putting the bicycle in a low gear and spinning. Even though you are not speeding up, it may look like you are and that you have no intent in giving away YOUR right of way.

Easy Peasy, do you stop pedaling as you approach the motorist? To them, this may be a signal that you are yielding.

Try putting the bicycle in a low gear and spinning. Even though you are not speeding up, it may look like you are and that you have no intent in giving away YOUR right of way.

Good suggestion - anything to add clarity for the driver. The ones that are looking are doing the same thing we are - trying to figger out what is about to happen.

Personally, I think cyclist should all be authorized to carry paint pistols with permanent yellow pigment. Mark the **** heads and warn others......

When a cop sees a car full of yellow paint splotches, they should have the right to pull it over and give the driver a sobriety and a stupidity test.

When a cop sees a car full of yellow paint splotches, they should have the right to pull it over and give the driver a sobriety and a stupidity test.

:beer:

Easy Peasy, do you stop pedaling as you approach the motorist? To them, this may be a signal that you are yielding.

Try putting the bicycle in a low gear and spinning. Even though you are not speeding up, it may look like you are and that you have no intent in giving away YOUR right of way.

The only time I stop pedaling is when I can't be sure the car at a cross street is going to pull out or stopping. Otherwise I'm going at a pretty good pace, and that's been working. But my problem remains when I'm stopped at an intersection - see post #30.

I've had this happen before 2 once on the mup. I'm going downhill with a noticeable grade. And 3/4 the way a driver pulls in front of me and I got within a few inches of hitting the car. Also he pulled out in front of a van and almost was hit.

I think you simply have to ride assuming cars will proceed as if there is no bike there. Recently, I have been much more careful, too, about moving up in the shoulder when there's a line of cars at a light. It's hard to resist, but if I do it, I do it very carefully. I've been trying to ask myself whenever I'm near a car or see one in my mirror, "what's the stupidest, most unconscious or aggressive thing this driver could do that would hurt me?" and anticipate that he will. Almost always, he won't, but I don't want to bank on it.

The reasons why this occurs is a discussion that could fill a book, it makes my blood boil and I'm not going there.

This is a fact of life for anyone encountering automobile traffic on 2 wheels. Whether I'm on my bike going 15 mph or my motorcycle going 40 it is the same thing. They do not see you. All you can do is be as visible as possible, assume they do not see you, assume the worst will happen and be prepared to take evasive action.

Bottom line is: you can complain all you want, but never let your guard down.

In most cases I doubt they do it deliberately. I think they misjudge distance and speed due to the different proportions of a bike and it's speed is often greater than what they think and the bicyle therefore looks further away and thus slower than it really is. As well, they are looking for cars, not bicycles or for that matter motorcycles. As a motorcyclist (in the past) I have seen this just as often. But, motorcycles make noise, often lot's of noise which does in fact help the motorcyclist be seen. Bicycles on the other hand are nearly silent. Also, y'all might notice that motorcycles have bright lights on all the time, even daylight and many motorcyclist have a flasher circuit on their headlamp that strobes the light. This stuff works and helps motorists see the motorcyclist. Bicycles have nothing like this available much less the engine noise. Loud pipes save lives, so do bright flashing headlights during the day.

ModernJess has the right of it.
It doesn't matter WHY they put your life in danger. The fact is that they WILL.
And YOU will suffer far worse than they.
The only logical response is to maximize their chances of seeing you, and minimize their ability to harm you.
I postulate that no drivers care if I live or die, and ride accordingly.

Works on bicycle as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU

Your safety is your responsibility. The law will "protect" you after the fact however it's up to you to avoid injury or death. And these two links show what you're up against. They (drivers) pull in front of trains and trucks every day. What makes you think you have a chance?


http://youtu.be/MCW8OyvL_Nw


http://youtu.be/1Muy0_ftZNc