Classic & Vintage - Want a porteur build but don't have the eyelets?!

I was interested in the Holdsworth (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/789251-Somebody-buy-this...-%28Holdsworth-Mistral-on-ebay%29) that was up for sale a few days ago and considering it for a porteur build but it didn't have double eyelets on the front fork thus nixing it as a potential porteur build.

Fast forward a few days later. I was poking around my local LBS and saw a clever porteur rack that doesn't require the use of eyelets. Perhaps this has been brought to our C&V forum before and if it has, my apologies on the double post. However, if not, then the Soma Porteur Rack (http://store.somafab.com/soporach.html) is clever enough to be brought up.
There are a few reasons why I liked it. First, the obvious is that you bolted it to the hub axle. This means, no longer are two eyelets required on the front fork to mount fenders and a porteur rack. It also means no more quick release levers because of where the rack bolts on, but I look at it like this... if you want to make an omelet you have to break some eggs.

The other nice features is that the lower strut is available to hang a pannier and the extra eyelet is perfect for a dynamo light. A fence is also available as an add on.

It's a bit spendy but it's pretty nifty, no?!

wow that is expensive

wow that is expensive
I agree, but I suppose if you are determined to build up a porteur with a particular frame, it could be worth it.

It also means no more quick release levers because of where the rack bolts on, but I look at it like this... if you want to make an omelet you have to break some eggs.



It looks like you can still use a quick release, the axle mounts in that picture of the rack are on upside down.

It looks like you can still use a quick release, the axle mounts in that picture of the rack are on upside down.

LOL Yep, looks that way! Might be a little more complicated when taking the wheel off, but whatever.

I thought if the bike does not have eyelets, its does not want a rack

Know what's funny, ThinMan? I don't think I've ever seen a red porteur. i mean, I'm sure there's plenty, but I've never seen one. Regarding the expense, I say buy good and buy once. Cheap always costs more later. Shady, the bike in question was designed for cycling that would likely involve a front bag, so I doubt a front rack would affect the handling much.

wow that is expensive
Cheaper then VO But VO is Polished stainless not Chromed steel.
(http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/racks-decaleurs.html)

Is this faux French Porteur thing a fad that has just about run its course, like fixed gear conversions? I've never built one because the parts, new or reproduction are too expensive, but I do have a Raleigh Competition with a Blackburn front rack and Wald rack. I've never hauled much with it. I don't like the way the front end flops with the extra weight. It's not pleasant to ride and I'm about ready to take the rack and basket off. I do think that faux porteurs can look cool, I just don't know if I want to ride one. I don't mean to offend anyone. I know that at least a couple of you are really into them. I'm just sayin'.

I think they're cool if you need one, y'know? And for some others, pretty is a "need."

I am with Grand Bois on this. Trend. I too took the front rack & basket off my bike. It was a PIA and not that handy. French newspaper carriers my arse!

Aw, you guys. If people enjoy them who cares if it's a trend?

^^ Not me but it is fun to rile people up on the interweb!

Yeah, where they can't reach ya. ;)
Walking upright was a trend once.

^ True but I gave that up a while ago, along w/ my fixie......

I like the look of the real french ones.

Anyway, this whole internet thing is a flash in the pan.

I have an old mini front rack that I've tried on two or three different bikes. I remember I was so excited when I originally found it, and I really like the look of it with the bike it's currently installed on, but I agree it's not all that useful- doesn't work well with my panniers and it's too small for a lot of other big items you'd think a front rack would be useful for. I think I'm just going to have to zip-tie a basket on top and call it good.

I like the look of the real french ones.

I think for the price of the combined parts to make one it is cheaper to buy a real one from France and have it shipped.

Front mount racks have always been nice on a utility general use bike. Its a Much more utilitarian location make it easy to get at on the move. I run a VO Campagne bag on my DD (touring bike) and it by far is my favorite set up for general riding since I can get quick access at lights.

The US bike market was more about go fast on the weekend then general transport and delivery so front racks didnt have as much use here if you weren't a paper boy. If the bike has the right amount of "Trail" the load on the front is very easy to deal with.

The thing that I think a lot of people make the mistake is putting a rack on a bike with Geometry that doesn't work for it. Sport bikes have the wrong amount of trail. A Touring bike on the other hand does fine. European bikes for general use have a very forgiving geometry so that they track straight and can handle loads. Touring bikes are more inline with that geometry.

I must be one of those "trendy" people apparently because I'm building a full on Porteur to use as my Shopping and winter bike. I like the style and in the winter I need more carry space then the Campagne bag has since I normally need to shed a couple layers for the ride home.

Guess I need to go get some skinny jeans and some full sleeve tattoo's since I'm a fad follower and need to fit in with the fad. :rolleyes:

My porteur was quite good at carrying things.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5110/5661001913_a424ceab6a_z.jpg

Funnily enough i couldn't find the original photo but a quick search of cycleczar on flickr brought it up!
You can always rely on him to have every french bike photo ever posted online ;)

Is this faux French Porteur thing a fad that has just about run its course, like fixed gear conversions?...I don't mean to offend anyone....

Really? :rolleyes:

Really? :rolleyes:

Yes.

I think they're cool if you need one, y'know? And for some others, pretty is a "need."

I do believe that Porteur bars along with a Porteur rack can make for a very attractive bicycle, especially if it is French. I have yet to ride a bicycle that has a rack on the front. I have a bag I just put on the front of my Schwinn and I personally do not like the floppy feel that I get in on the front fork. That's not to say that I can't get used to it, as for now it is a small annoyance. I will keep it until such time as I decide to make a change were when it becomes more than an annoyance.

Yes.

Well, you failed, I was offended. I like original porteurs and faux porteurs, I even built up my own version. Why did you bother to infect this thread with all your hating? Isn't it enough to just move on to threads that concern fads you like?

I've never experienced a front load on a bike built to handle one. I have however expierienced a high front load on a bike that could not handle it. My bike was awful.... Im surprised I didn't crash. I'd like to try a bike built with the appropriate geometry.

I like the pannier option on the soma rack, it seems to really improve the function. The pannier bags will sit lower which should improve the handling. I do think it's probably a bad idea to use that rack on just any type of frame.

Is this faux French Porteur thing a fad that has just about run its course, like fixed gear conversions? I've never built one because the parts, new or reproduction are too expensive, but I do have a Raleigh Competition with a Blackburn front rack and Wald rack. I've never hauled much with it. I don't like the way the front end flops with the extra weight. It's not pleasant to ride and I'm about ready to take the rack and basket off. I do think that faux porteurs can look cool, I just don't know if I want to ride one. I don't mean to offend anyone. I know that at least a couple of you are really into them. I'm just sayin'.


I am with Grand Bois on this. Trend. I too took the front rack & basket off my bike. It was a PIA and not that handy. French newspaper carriers my arse!


I think there certainly is a visual appeal to a classic porteur that some bike companies are trying to capitalize on, without taking into account appropriate geometry-- the Trek Bellevue is an example. These faux porteurs end up being nothing more than eye candy, but I wouldn't call the recent trend of converting regular bikes into porteurs, real or pseduo, a "fad". IMHO, it's only a fad when all that's sought is the superficial look, without the practicality or purposefulness of a proper design.

The reason Grand Bois was experiencing the front end flop is because the geometry of his Competition is all wrong for carrying a front load. The propensity for a front end to flop is easily and accurately quantitated, and can be accounted for in the bike's design. I happened to create a "faux porteur" out of my Jeunet 630, a French road bike which I had calculated to have a geometry that would be fairly forgiving for this purpose (medium trail). It turned out to be my favorite bike for general purpose riding, errands and commuting. I commute on it to work year-round, and stop off at the store routinely to bring home a bag of groceries. While it's not a perfectly designed porteur, it has low enough trail that the steering is quite light (almost too light when unloaded), and handles perfectly with a light load in front-- about 3-5 lbs (or about one grocery bag) makes it ride like a dream! Over ten pounds on the rack and and it starts to feel sluggish and flop-ish-- a proper porteur wouldn't have this problem, even with 30 lbs loaded on. Still, after 1.5 years of riding this bike, I decided I liked it so much that I invested quite a lot of money into upgrading it with modern dynamo lighting (the wiring of which I integrated inside the rack's tubing). I like it so much more now, as it does everything so well... it is light, zippy, and gives me a perfect urban riding position, not too upright, just aggressive enough but upright enough that I can see above traffic. The 1x5 gearing is about perfect. I can see well riding it at night. The only thing I would change if I could would be to shod it with wider tires, but 28mm is the widest it can take with fenders, and conversion to 650B is not a viable option. That's its biggest shortcoming.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6488058599_83f5d84875_b.jpg

My next porteur build (based on a PX10) will address the tire width and the front end geometry. It will be about as real a porteur in terms of functionality as you can get without going custom.

I have an old mini front rack that I've tried on two or three different bikes. I remember I was so excited when I originally found it, and I really like the look of it with the bike it's currently installed on, but I agree it's not all that useful- doesn't work well with my panniers and it's too small for a lot of other big items you'd think a front rack would be useful for. I think I'm just going to have to zip-tie a basket on top and call it good.

A mini front rack really has only one main purpose, and two secondary purposes: to hold a front handlebar bag (main), support a long front fender (secondary), and provide a mounting point for a headlight (secondary). Some mini racks aren't designed for the secondary purposes, but good ones are.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6488058599_83f5d84875_b.jpg
My next porteur build (based on a PX10) will address the tire width and the front end geometry. It will be about as real a porteur in terms of functionality as you can get without going custom.

Great looking Jeunet, Southpaw. Also, thanks for the review from someone who has been riding a porteur for an extended period of time. Great info!

You said your next porteur is based on a PX10 but I'm curious what model it actually is as I'm working on getting a short list together of (mainly French) bikes that are excellent porteur candidates.

Great looking Jeunet, Southpaw. Also, thanks for the review from someone who has been riding a porteur for an extended period of time. Great info!

You said your next porteur is based on a PX10 but I'm curious what model it actually is as I'm working on getting a short list together of (mainly French) bikes that are excellent porteur candidates.

Thanks, TM. The Peugeot PX10 is a 1972, with steep head angle and a good amount of fork rake. Trail is estimated to be in the high 30s as stock, which should work well for a porteur, but I'm having the fork further raked to decrease the trail to the low 30s, and will also be modifying the frame for 650B wheels-- having cantilever bosses and new rear bridges brazed on. The goal in the end is to have about 30mm of trail. The frame, as is, has plenty of room for 650x42 tires. Dynamo wiring will be entirely internal.

One last comment about porteurs, racks and fads-- while VO may have been either responsible for this porteur fad, or merely responding to it, their porteur rack is a serious rack, fully capable of carrying as much weight as you can think of putting on it. It is very well engineered, and strong. And it's not even very heavy. Call it a fad, but it this rack is the rack that enabled lots of porteur conversions. At first, I was wary of spending $130 for this rack, but in retrospect, it was one of the biggest bike accessory bargains I've encountered.

Thanks, TM. The Peugeot PX10 is a 1972. The goal in the end is to have about 30mm of trail. The frame, as is, has plenty of room for 650x42 tires.

Wow! I can't wait to see that build!

Wow! I can't wait to see that build!

Me neither :). A previous owner (Nlerner here on BF) had already built it up with 650B wheels, and passed it on to another owner before that owner passed it on to me. That owner kept the 650B setup with Hetres, and I happened to test ride it as configured-- wow, one smooth ride. So at least the uncertainty of conversion is removed from the equation, the only uncertainty that remains is how the geometry, after modifying, will work with a porteur rack.

I think there certainly is a visual appeal to a classic porteur that some bike companies are trying to capitalize on, without taking into account appropriate geometry-- the Trek Bellevue is an example. These faux porteurs end up being nothing more than eye candy, but I wouldn't call the recent trend of converting regular bikes into porteurs, real or pseduo, a "fad". IMHO, it's only a fad when all that's sought is the superficial look, without the practicality or purposefulness of a proper design.

The reason Grand Bois was experiencing the front end flop is because the geometry of his Competition is all wrong for carrying a front load. The propensity for a front end to flop is easily and accurately quantitated, and can be accounted for in the bike's design. I happened to create a "faux porteur" out of my Jeunet 630, a French road bike which I had calculated to have a geometry that would be fairly forgiving for this purpose (medium trail). It turned out to be my favorite bike for general purpose riding, errands and commuting. I commute on it to work year-round, and stop off at the store routinely to bring home a bag of groceries. While it's not a perfectly designed porteur, it has low enough trail that the steering is quite light (almost too light when unloaded), and handles perfectly with a light load in front-- about 3-5 lbs (or about one grocery bag) makes it ride like a dream! Over ten pounds on the rack and and it starts to feel sluggish and flop-ish-- a proper porteur wouldn't have this problem, even with 30 lbs loaded on. Still, after 1.5 years of riding this bike, I decided I liked it so much that I invested quite a lot of money into upgrading it with modern dynamo lighting (the wiring of which I integrated inside the rack's tubing). I like it so much more now, as it does everything so well... it is light, zippy, and gives me a perfect urban riding position, not too upright, just aggressive enough but upright enough that I can see above traffic. The 1x5 gearing is about perfect. I can see well riding it at night. The only thing I would change if I could would be to shod it with wider tires, but 28mm is the widest it can take with fenders, and conversion to 650B is not a viable option. That's its biggest shortcoming.


My next porteur build (based on a PX10) will address the tire width and the front end geometry. It will be about as real a porteur in terms of functionality as you can get without going custom.

You are one of the people that I didn't want to offend. I don't know why anyone would be offended by a different opinion anyway.

Any bike with a front load will have some degree of flop unless the head tube is vertical. That would probably make it virtually unrideable.

You know nothing about the geometry of my Competition since it has a replacement fork.

Anton, as you desribe it, I would not consider it a fad. Putting a VO Porteur rack on a DeRosa Primato, does not make it a Porteur. I have the same feeling with 650b conversions. There are bikes that it will work well on and others it will not. Simply changing a bike to have a specific look, does not mean it will operate better. These are my opinons and people will do what makes them happy.

You are one of the people that I didn't want to offend. I don't know why anyone would be offended by a different opinion anyway.


I wasn't offended in the least, and simply offered a counter opinion. Did I say I was offended?


Any bike with a front load will have some degree of flop unless the head tube is vertical.

Any bike, period, has some degree of flop. I would venture to say that some of the finest road bikes in your collection have the most flop, but are they undesirable to ride? Some flop is A Good Thing, or else it's impossible to have a bike track properly without constant rider input.



You know nothing about the geometry of my Competition since it has a replacement fork.

Fair, but it's still valid for me to point out that if you are experiencing undesirable flop with a basket, then your bike--however it is configured--does not have the appropriate geometry for what you wanted out of it.

Simply changing a bike to have a specific look, does not mean it will operate better. These are my opinons and people will do what makes them happy.

I would agree with this completely.

I wasn't offended in the least, and simply offered a counter opinion. Did I say I was offended?

No, but I did offend somebody. He even found my original post hateful. I can't understand that at all, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I tried the whole front load thing for a while on my Miyata 615, which I use as a get-around-town bike and I didn't like how my bike handled. Maybe this had something to do with my bar setup (north roads on a riser stem) or maybe the load was too high, but at any rate I found it very hard to steer at lower speeds (under 10mph). Not to say that I wouldn't try it again with a proper porteur setup. I think my frame-wheel-tire combo gave a trail of about 48mm which I guess isn't low enough.

...I can't understand that at all....
Just to further your understanding: I thought it was rude to call this type of bike a "fad" and slam fixed gear bikes at the same time. "Fad", in this context it is a pejorative, surely that was your intent. IMO, you're just baiting a response by being negative, I responded. With regards to further responses from me, sleep well, my friend, I used the ignore function!

I'd like to suggest an alternative to the term "faux porteur": poseur porteur (it rhymes).

Hi Everyone.
Since I started the thread I figured I'd step in just to say that no matter what your opinions are on porteur bikes, could we please stay on topic (ie: we are talking about a product that allows you to have a nifty porteur rack without using the eyelets) and leave the insults and bashing for another, more appropriate forum or outlet?

However, there have been some really great comments on this thread, so to those adding to the discussion, thank you!

It is better if the front rack is attached to the frame rather than the fork, though most I see are not. The old Schwinn Cycletrucks had the basket attached to the frame and a small wheel in the front. The small wheel allows the load to be lower and that is an advantage because the center of gravity of the load is lower and there is more space for the load. Moultons make good load haulers or tourers because of the small wheels and racks being supported off the frame.

Just in case others here are tempted to do a PX10-to-beast of burden conversion: please do note that an essential element in Anton's plan is going 650B wheels. With 700C wheels, the '74 PX10 frame that I have will only fit 28 mm tires fendered, at least on the front, and I don't think the rear is much better. About the same as the Jeunet he's pictured (I also have one of those in my frame inventory, same size as the PX).


Thanks, TM. The Peugeot PX10 is a 1972, with steep head angle and a good amount of fork rake. Trail is estimated to be in the high 30s as stock, which should work well for a porteur, but I'm having the fork further raked to decrease the trail to the low 30s, and will also be modifying the frame for 650B wheels-- having cantilever bosses and new rear bridges brazed on. The goal in the end is to have about 30mm of trail. The frame, as is, has plenty of room for 650x42 tires.

Just in case others here are tempted to do a PX10-to-beast of burden conversion: please do note that an essential element in Anton's plan is going 650B wheels. With 700C wheels, the '74 PX10 frame that I have will only fit 28 mm tires fendered, at least on the front, and I don't think the rear is much better. About the same as the Jeunet he's pictured (I also have one of those in my frame inventory, same size as the PX).

Charles, according to my prediction, the Jeunet will only fit 650x38 tires, and with fenders that might be dicey. For that reason and a couple others (like a really high brake bridge), the Jeunet just isn't a great candidate for conversion.

Thanks, TM. The Peugeot PX10 is a 1972, with steep head angle and a good amount of fork rake. Trail is estimated to be in the high 30s as stock, which should work well for a porteur, but I'm having the fork further raked to decrease the trail to the low 30s, and will also be modifying the frame for 650B wheels-- having cantilever bosses and new rear bridges brazed on. The goal in the end is to have about 30mm of trail. The frame, as is, has plenty of room for 650x42 tires. Dynamo wiring will be entirely internal.

One last comment about porteurs, racks and fads-- while VO may have been either responsible for this porteur fad, or merely responding to it, their porteur rack is a serious rack, fully capable of carrying as much weight as you can think of putting on it. It is very well engineered, and strong. And it's not even very heavy. Call it a fad, but it this rack is the rack that enabled lots of porteur conversions. At first, I was wary of spending $130 for this rack, but in retrospect, it was one of the biggest bike accessory bargains I've encountered.

This sounds very interesting and very relevant to my interests lately. We have had unseasonablely warm weather and my last two rides the last few days were on my 650b converted 72' PX10. I am beginning to love this bike. This was my first 650b bike and I built it awhile ago, but really only got some short rides on it until this week. I have 55 miles on it in the last few days and I am sure it is going to get a lot more miles this year. I want to try out Hetre on it, but now it sports the Soma B-Line tires.

And, then with the porteur concept my last build was a porteur build with a Schwinn Le Tour, Electra Ticino fork, and the VO porteur rack. I built it with 700c wheels just because I already had the wheels. The fork doesn't have much clearance with the 700x32 and fenders so 650b might be in the future. I have only rode it once, but with an 18 pack of beer rode nicely.