Classic & Vintage - I've just returned from an old French barn!

With two bikes.

One is a 1937 race bike with a flip flop rear wheel with two cogs.

The other is a porteur.

Photos coming.

nice! looking forward to the photos

The photos aren't very good though as it's night time and i had to use flash.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7024/6655295031_a51409e990_z.jpg

The headbadge

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6655322197_876dd14e13_z.jpg

I always love finding bikes like this...but i never stumble upon any in my area. Time to break out the polish and start cleaning. So what is your plan with them?

I always love finding bikes like this...but i never stumble upon any in my area. Time to break out the polish and start cleaning. So what is your plan with them?

I haven't any plan at the moment except to clean and polish as you suggested and to work out how to take a buckle out of a wooden rim!
I originally went looking for a Randonneur bike but found these two instead.

Could this be the original sellers plaque from a shop??

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6655360253_a37e3302f1_z.jpg

I love your posts because you always come through with pictures. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks YoKev!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7013/6655434667_ede8e03abc_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6655431993_0fb4262cc9_z.jpg

Wow! I too love to find bikes like that. Sadly, most of the stuff I find in Thunder Bay is from the seventies and eighties, with a bit of the sixties, and a whiff of fifties thrown in, for good measure. The race bike is stunning and will be even more so in a short while I bet;-)

Congrats!

Thanks Randy!

Would this bike of been a fixed gear racer?
I thought the rear wheel was fixed on one side and freewheel on the other , but this one has a freewheel on either side.
I haven't checked but maybe they are different ratios? Or the fixed cog was replaced with a freewheel cog?
Any ideas what originally it would of been?

Yea, it would probably be fixed both sides, just an easier gear. That was common. It appears to be an old racer. Beautiful shape overall, love the head badge, and that could indeed be a original plaque. Quite an impressive find. The stem is very cool also. 1937, just a few years later and all hell broke loose. I wonder how long that bike had been tucked away? I don't find bikes in the states, i did find my Dnepr about a mile from where i live...
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/pamaguahiker/My%20Dnepr/ My Dnepr

Keep posting. I am looking forward to seeing the rims, tires, etc. Thanks for sharing!

Your Dnepr is a beast!

Ok for more photos but i bought the bike without tyres and added some when i got home , so these aren't period.
Also it came with fenders in the same colour as the bike but the seller thought they weren't original.
I removed them earlier.

Congrats on the fine time capsule bikes aquisition Dave! Such nice finds only come once in a lifetime for most and for many, not even.
I was in Spain, Italy, France and the UK over the Holidays and I could not even spot decent C&V bikes on the street the whole time I was there! For some reason, I see more in the streets of San Francisco.

Chombi

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6655565593_3efe81c874_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7002/6655566883_9024a6f160_z.jpg

Congrats on the fine time capsule bikes aquisition Dave! Such nice finds only come once in a lifetime for most and for many, not even.
I was in Spain, Italy, France and the UK over the Holidays and I could not even spot decent C&V bikes on the street the whole time I was there! For some reason, I see more in the streets of San Francisco.

Chombi

Thanks, shame you didn't find anything while you were over here!
To be honest most of the bikes i see around Paris on the streets are modern bikes and fixed gears.
Sometimes i see old ten speeds but not too often.
But for the vintage stuff you have to search leboncoin or trocvelo or pignonfixe websites.

Would this bike of been a fixed gear racer?
I thought the rear wheel was fixed on one side and freewheel on the other , but this one has a freewheel on either side.
I haven't checked but maybe they are different ratios? Or the fixed cog was replaced with a freewheel cog?
Any ideas what originally it would of been?

That set-up was the earliest derailleur. When you got to the top of the hill, you jumped off of the bike, turned the rear wheel around and went down the other side but with a smaller freewheel cog to allow for greater speed. At least that would be my guess.

I recall a story about Campagnolo, or someone, having trouble flipping the wheel during a race because his fingers were too cold. The first derailleur was invented not long after that incident.

Or so my memory recalls, I think, I can't remember.

Again, what a great find! You must be having lots of fun. And I thought I was doing good when I picked up a Nishiki International at the Dump today.

The "headbadge" in the first picture, may not be the maker. There is a bicycle shop in Paris with a logo very similar to that badge. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.la-gazelle.com/&ei=GcsIT7eoE4qRgQePoZi6Ag&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbicycle%2Bla%2BGazelle%2Bparis%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D560%26prmd%3Dimv ns They are the oldest bike shop in Paris.
They may have had a local framebuilder make the frame for them, back in the day.

With a two freewheel flip-flop hub, more than likely it was not a track bike. Probably just a semi racer, with two gear ranges, for flats and hills.

Still, Great Find!

I think the saddle has seen better days.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6655631047_e4e29c9994_z.jpg

Is it normal for frames of this age to be lugless?
Does it mean a sign of quality or were a lot of bikes lugless back then?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7172/6655629911_0eb86856f9_z.jpg

The "headbadge" in the first picture, may not be the maker. There is a bicycle shop in Paris with a logo very similar to that badge. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.la-gazelle.com/&ei=GcsIT7eoE4qRgQePoZi6Ag&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbicycle%2Bla%2BGazelle%2Bparis%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D560%26prmd%3Dimv ns They are the oldest bike shop in Paris.
They may have had a local framebuilder make the frame for them, back in the day.

With a two freewheel flip-flop hub, more than likely it was not a track bike. Probably just a semi racer, with two gear ranges, for flats and hills.

Still, Great Find!

Hey thanks for the info!!

I think you are right and i done a search and found this other bike by them though it is a bit newer http://forum.tontonvelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2170

Could be fillet brazed, or maybe internally lugged. Without a complete strip and/or internal examination could be hard to tell.

I wonder if the badge on the top tube was the original owners property tag?

If you are in Paris, you might want to give La Gazelle a call, or show the bike to them. Maybe some history there.

Could be fillet brazed, or maybe internally lugged. Without a complete strip and/or internal examination could be hard to tell.

I wonder if the badge on the top tube was the original owners property tag?

Maybe, i have come across these in the past but never this old or fancy.
Plus if the head badge is the maker and the shop then the other badge must be the original owner's badge surely.

Fantastic find there Daveyates!

Are those wine corks in the bar ends? If so there is not doubt that they're "vintage" too.



....
But for the vintage stuff you have to search leboncoin or trocvelo or pignonfixe websites.

PS- I tried searching one of these sites ^ for a PX10 and it cursed me out! See?
"Si vous effectuez une recherche par mots-clés, vérifiez bien qu'il n'y a pas de faute de frappe." :eek:

Fantastic find there Daveyates!

Are those wine corks in the bar ends? If so there is not doubt that they're "vintage" too.




PS- I tried searching one of these sites ^ for a PX10 and it cursed me out! See?
"Si vous effectuez une recherche par mots-clés, vérifiez bien qu'il n'y a pas de faute de frappe." :eek:

It's best not to search for PX10s because normally you will find Pr10s.
Try using keywords , "mots-cles" , like velo de course , velo ancien or velo de collection & velo demi course.

I never thought they could be wine corks but who knows.
I thought they were just vintage bar end plugs.

Looks like a bicycle license. I have had bikes with license decals (here in Canada) from the 30's and 40's.


Could this be the original sellers plaque from a shop??

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6655360253_a37e3302f1_z.jpg

Beautiful bikes Daveyates, you must be thrilled. Nothing like that around here in Toronto, except maybe in a museum.

Great bit of info/research there about the bike shop in France catmandew52.

When the bike is ready i'm going to take it to the shop and show them and tell them sorry i'm late for the yearly service :lol:

Looks like a bicycle license. I have had bikes with license decals (here in Canada) from the 30's and 40's.

Thanks for the info.

I don't always comment on your threads, but I always read them and look at them. Okay, mostly look.

For those of us that like this kind of thread, check out the track bike graveyard thread in the track (not ssfg) forum.

Fantastic find.

Randy is 100% correct, pre-derailleur vintage.

My grandfather rode a bike set-up like this (him in center of attached photo) as an avid cyclo-tourist in northeastern France during the late 1920's/early 30's. I remember him commenting on how one had to stop and flip the rear wheel when faced with a steep climb.

Due to road conditions and climate, most bikes back then came with fenders which were removed on 'race day'. Also, fenders were sometimes painted in a different color for aesthetic purposes.

Very cool find Dave!

Randy is 100% correct, pre-derailleur vintage.

My grandfather rode a bike set-up like this (him in center of attached photo) as an avid cyclo-tourist in northeastern France during the late 1920's/early 30's. I remember him commenting on how one had to stop and flip the rear wheel when faced with a steep climb.

Due to road conditions and climate, most bikes back then came with fenders which were removed on 'race day'. Also, fenders were sometimes painted in a different color for aesthetic purposes.

Very cool find Dave!

I love this forum because of all of the great information!
Thanks for adding the photo as well.

Well as mentioned i have the fenders but i wasn't sure if they were original.
After what you said i'm thinking maybe they are.

Here is a shot of when i first got the bike back with the fenders.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/6656262903_f1f33e0354_z.jpg

Lovely, beautiful!! The colour is so unusual, too. A wonderful green.

Could the TT badge be for a competition of some kind?

I expect it would have originally been fixed both sides, as others have said. Removing the freewheels will tell you as the hub will have 2 threaded portions either side, one for the fixed cogs and smaller outers for the lock-rings. Or, it might be threaded on one side for a fixed cog and on the other for a single speed free. You'd use the fixed for general riding and the single speed to have a rest, or when you wanted to freewheel down a long hill.

Thank you for posting such nice photos! I'm really looking forward to seeing how it looks as you work on it. Positively salivating at the prospect :D

Looking some more, I would vote for not repainting or clear-coating but just polishing up and keeping it nicely waxed to preserve the paint. Framesaver inside the tubes if you can get that in France. Or WaxOyl from the UK... un moment! Bien, dis donc! Or is it 'Dit donc'? Regardez ca!

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Bombe-Aerosol-Waxoyl-400ml-/370570716615?pt=FR_JG_Auto_Pièces_Outillage&hash=item5647bc65c7

Awesome thread! And i will be checking that graveyard thread! I love the prewar cycling era. Can someone tell me. With the pre-war era bikes, was common for the frames to be larger or smaller?

Fantastic find there Daveyates!

Are those wine corks in the bar ends? If so there is not doubt that they're "vintage" too.


- I tried searching one of these sites ^ for a PX10 and it cursed me out! See?
"Si vous effectuez une recherche par mots-clés, vérifiez bien qu'il n'y a pas de faute de frappe." :eek:

Not wine corks, Champagne Corks!

Try entering "velo ancien peugeot PX-10" in your search, then use the page translation when it comes up in google.

Found this by entering ^-http://www.velocompetition.com/1967-peugeot-px10-art7.html

lovely old find again Daveyates.

fantastic find! really beautiful pieces.

are those drop bars just aged and rusty steel? or are they brass??

Yet another cool find Daveyates.

Could this be the original sellers plaque from a shop??

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6655360253_a37e3302f1_z.jpg

That is so beautiful. Man...the way they used to make things. Utilitarian art.

Like that song, 'You're too good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you...' I've been looking at your new machine again, showing my wife, actually, and I wonder, are the bars and stem one part? Or is there a bolt hidden from view?

fantastic find! really beautiful pieces.

are those drop bars just aged and rusty steel? or are they brass??

The bars are steel and i really like this rusty look.
I'm not going to touch them apart from new bar tape on the ends.

Like that song, 'You're too good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you...' I've been looking at your new machine again, showing my wife, actually, and I wonder, are the bars and stem one part? Or is there a bolt hidden from view?

Yes they are one unit!
They seem to be perfectly straight and true.

I undone the seatpost today and guess what , It's not stuck!
I really thought it was going to be rusted in.
I haven't removed it yet but just checked that it could turn.

I know nothing, but very cool!



I expect it would have originally been fixed both sides


Way before my time, but fixed one side and freewheel the other is what I've always heard. For going downhill.

I know nothing, but very cool!





Way before my time, but fixed one side and freewheel the other is what I've always heard. For going downhill.

You sir are correct!
I have dismantled the rear wheel and it is a true flip flop.
Twin threaded on one side and single threaded on the other.
I also noticed that one of the freewheel cogs looks a lot older than the other one.
So i think i have the original one and the other one was added and replaced the fix cog at a later date.

Voila , here is the hub.
It is currently soaking in vinegar to remove the rust.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6662181849_a73433c51a_z.jpg

Fantastic find there Daveyates!

Are those wine corks in the bar ends? If so there is not doubt that they're "vintage" too.




PS- I tried searching one of these sites ^ for a PX10 and it cursed me out! See?
"Si vous effectuez une recherche par mots-clés, vérifiez bien qu'il n'y a pas de faute de frappe." :eek:

Not much of a cussing out: "If you perform a search by keywords, make sure that there is not a typo."

wooden rim!

wow, also nice to see its not a tiny size too.

and the porteur?