Classic & Vintage - 1938 Torpedo Single-speed Brake Hub on 1949 Rotrax track - Advice?

I have a couple of questions about this hub but first, a bit of background info...

I have recently acquired a beautiful (to me) 1949 Rotrax Vel d'Hiv track frame. It's still in the UK, waiting for me to pick it up on my next visit home but my mind is already on the build :)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6656949089_c730f8c0e2.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656949089/)
26 Alpine & 25inch Rotrax 022 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656949089/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

The fork crown is drilled for a brake but not the seat stay bridge. That would normally be fine as I bought it intending to use it as a fixed gear, as it was made to be used. However, due to a series of fatal accidents involving the fashionable riding brake-less track bikes on the streets the police have started to come down hard on anyone caught without brakes front and back and have started issuing on-the-spot $650 fines for anyone they catch. It's a very public campaign with prominent coverage on TV and in the press.

In the UK a fixed gear is regarded as a brake (as indeed it is - 1 : a device for arresting or preventing the motion of a mechanism usually by means of friction 2: something used to slow down or stop movement or activity) but in Japan the police are arguing that a brake is a device affixed to a bicycle, although it hasn't been argued in court yet.

As I'm not about to drill a hole in the lovely seat stay bridge on this frame, and I don't want to hide it with alloy plates to mount a brake, I've decided to go with a hub brake. There is a Sturmey Archer 2-speed fixed hub from the 30s with a brake that would be my first choice but are very, very rare. Then this came up on eBay, an NOS 1938 Sachs Torpedo:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6656884761_37af252a3e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656884761/)
IMG_7620 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656884761/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

How it lasted 73 years in this pristine condition is anyone's guess but it seems to have done so in Hungary, where I bought it from. I can't help looking at that eagle and imagining a swastika in the orb. It's really weird. I don't think I could bring myself to use it if there was but it doesn't seem the Nazis ever appropriated this particular view of an eagle.

It is a beautiful thing with very obviously thick, lustrous chrome, even on the dust cover, in much cheaper mild steel in later hubs. The dust cover even has a felt ring inside, which would have been oiled or greased in order to better keep dust out. Some pics:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6656884873_4a53eeedf5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656884873/)
IMG_7621 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656884873/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

I have another 3 later Torpedo hubs, from the 60s and 70s, so I already have the smaller of these 2 c-spanners in this shot:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6656884993_f943ec31b6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656884993/)
IMG_7622 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656884993/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

After taking the axle-nut off, the small c-spanner removes the knurled nut. Then the only thing you can undo from there is what looks to be a smaller version of the ball-ring on a Sturmey Archer. In this shot you can see the felt-lined dust cover:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6656885165_b07f7509c0.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656885165/)
IMG_7623 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656885165/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6656885269_3f13f21740.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656885269/)
IMG_7624 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656885269/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

Now the questions:
1. Do I actually need to take the hub apart to clean it and regrease everything? Or would it be enough to just flush the hub with oil until it stopped coming out dirty? I think I do, not least in order to regrease the bearings.

3. If I do take the hub apart, the only way to secure the hub would be by securing the brake lever but I'm worried that doing this would over-apply the brake and damage it somehow. I know that the way of securing a Sturmey Archer is by putting its flange in a vice but I don't want to risk damaging the chrome. Perhaps I should lace the hub into a wheel and then undo the 'ball-ring' against the spokes, which is the way I've found easiest with SA hubs.

4. The locking ring in the above photo is threaded anti-clockwise as it serves as a lock-ring of the fixed gear type. However, the inner, non-chromed side looks like a bearing race. Any thoughts on that? Is it perhaps meant to 'wedge' the cog in place? The hub takes a standard Sachs/SA/Shimano 3-dent cog.

A better shot of the lock-ring:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7008/6656885395_c3cd218b90.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656885395/)
IMG_7625 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6656885395/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

Just realised I didn't show the end I'm talking about. With the lock-nut and dust cover in place:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6657260547_50c07026d9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6657260547/)
IMG_7626 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6657260547/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

And undone, to reveal the 'ball-ring':
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7025/6657260709_cb5865f159.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6657260709/)
IMG_7627 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6657260709/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

And the bridge I don't want to drill through:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6657260389_08e0a337d3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6657260389/)
26 Alpine & 25inch Rotrax 029 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6657260389/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

FWIW , the Duomatic hub is the finest coaster brake hub I've ridden and I own 2 of them. Try these good people at http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/torpedo-duomatic-fs/ for some related support. I've dissembled and re-assembled F&S hubs using their schematics.

Isn't that chrome something else?

FWIW , the Duomatic hub is the finest coaster brake hub I've ridden and I own 2 of them. Try these good people at http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/torpedo-duomatic-fs/ for some related support. I've dissembled and re-assembled F&S hubs using their schematics.

Isn't that chrome something else?

Thanks. I sometimes post there. In fact, I bought my 2nd Duomatic from Marco through that site. With this SS Torpedo, I have 2 Sachs hub projects on the go. The other is fitting an Automatic to my other track bike, for the same reasons outlined above. I brought this here first because of its C&V content.

The best chrome I have ever seen was on the bumper of a 1972 Mercedes. The owner told me the bumper was made of brass. Gorgeous!

Here's a pic of one apart:

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4107/5170574072_3a563061a1_z.jpg

Can't remember any issues taking it apart and rebuilding it.

It's a cool piece (no Eagle on mine from the early 30's)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2457/5826246643_f632724f87_z.jpg

Here's a pic of one apart:
Can't remember any issues taking it apart and rebuilding it.

It's a cool piece (no Eagle on mine from the early 30's)

Thank you, Otis! And that's a lovely machine. But really, is that all there is inside the hub?
Do you think there's any possibility of damaging the brake mechanism by applying the torque necessary to free the ball-ring (as it is indeed such)? I might just give it a go and see how tightly the ball-ring is screwed on...

And that's a lovely machine.

I take that back - I've just looked at your other photos of the machine on Flickr and it's a FABULOUS machine. Never heard of a Cicognani... did you manage to find out more?

And that pedal-like front hub is really interesting. Where did you find such a machine!?

Aww, jeez, yer killin' me here, Dawes-man, with yet another soon-to-be-incredible thread!

Subscribing now.

Aww, jeez, yer killin' me here, Dawes-man, with yet another soon-to-be-incredible thread!

Subscribing now.

:o I sure hope so. I've sent a message to Jens Hansen, the 'Torpedo Coaster-brake Man (http://www.torpedo-coasterbrake.com/)' in Germany. A very useful site for anyone using any of the Torpedo family, including the Duomatic, of course. Jens carries most spares, too. He can use some English but it's better to copy him the names of parts in German from the parts lists on his site. So I've asked him if 'the ball ring turns anti-clockwise (nach links) to remove?' And 'Can I damage the brake parts (Bremsmantel & Bremskonus) if I use the brake arm (Bremshebel) to stop the hub and turn the ball ring (Gewindekopf) against it?'

I'm really interested in this hub and think it's a work of art. I can't wait to get it apart. I've had the Duomatic on my Dawes apart and it's very well made as well as being very easy to work on and a really useful hub. Brilliant for around town.

I initially made contact with Jens through the Hubstripping site that clubman recommended above. That's a great site for info about Duomatics.

Just a data correction - the part I have been calling a ball-ring is properly called the 'Driver'.

This is from the German part of the www.torpedo-coasterbrake.com site and shows the very hub I have, except mine has a floating brake arm, like the one Otis has on his gorgeous Cicognani above.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6659930829_d0b898e6c6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6659930829/)
torpedo-freilauf-betriebsanleitung-1938 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6659930829/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

I take that back - I've just looked at your other photos of the machine on Flickr and it's a FABULOUS machine. Never heard of a Cicognani... did you manage to find out more?

And that pedal-like front hub is really interesting. Where did you find such a machine!?

I really do not remember any issues doing the R&R on the hub, and it was the first coaster brake hub I had worked since I was about twelve years old. It did have the cogs on it so I may have used a chainwhip to aid in taking it apart. I really do not know if I had to use the brake arm or not, but I think I did use it as leverage when re-assembling it. Sorry, it was one of those things I just did, it came it allright, and I never thought about it again. I only really remember the ones that go wrong!

The Cicognani was bought (where else) on ebay. It somehow ended up in an attic in Livonia MI. According to the seller, it was brought over by his friend's family when immigrating. It must have been a very expensive bike in its day, but still seems like extra baggage for a middle class family to bring to the new world. I really wish I knew more about it. But the seller was not very receptive to exploring the details for me. It kind of went for peanuts, as it was a poor ad with small out of focus photos. The head-tube details made me want it, and I put in a low-ball snipe bid thinking there was no way I'd actually get it. But everybody else must have been sleeping, as I did.

It's a pro level bike from the day, but there's not much/any info on Cicognani. I found a scan of his catalog that shows lots of racing palmeres, and photos from L'Eroica of a 1920's bike that has been restored. I was told he had a son that was active racer through the 50's, but he had died not too long ago. I did stumble upon this link recently which shows the racer Amletto Giovani wearing a Cicognani jersey.

http://flying-scot.com/miscellaneous/bicycle/individuals/lenzi/jackie_lenzi.html

I really do not remember any issues doing the R&R on the hub, and it was the first coaster brake hub I had worked since I was about twelve years old.

Sorry, it was one of those things I just did, it came it allright, and I never thought about it again. I only really remember the ones that go wrong!

Not at all! Many thanks for the help you have provided.


I did stumble upon this link recently which shows the racer Amletto Giovani wearing a Cicognani jersey.

Thanks also for the Cicognani info. I bet it was a thrill to find the picture :)

Just heard from Jens, who says NOT to undo the drive side against the brake arm as that can damage the hub. Glad I asked! The hub should be opened from the brake-arm end, which is opposite to the Duomatic and the Sturmey Archer.

Resilion canti brakes would also be a good, period correct option since they clamp the the forks, although that would be more clutter than the coaster brake option.

Resilion canti brakes would also be a good, period correct option since they clamp the the forks, although that would be more clutter than the coaster brake option.

Thanks for the thought. Yes, that's right. I did consider Resilion as I have a spare set to hand (don't know if the canti clamps are the right size) but, as you say, they would be more clutter and part of the beauty of the frame is its simplicity. Also, the paint on the Rotrax is period and very good and I'm loathe to clamp stuff to it that might damage the paint. Weight-wise, I don't think there'd be much in it. I'll just check... ah, alloy levers, cables and 4 cantilevers weigh 880g against 1065g for the hub, a difference of 185g, or 6.5oz. I reckon the steel Resilion levers would make them pretty much the same.

I'm very pleased with this hub, though. I've just got it apart and just looking at the 73 year old thrills me. The smell reminds me of the blacksmith's forge in my village when I was growing up. I'll take photos in the morning before cleaning it up and post them here.

It is a beautiful hub indeed!

Dawes-man, I realize in your last post you have already (and rightly) rejected this type of option, but another brake that would be period correct and doesn't require drilling the frame is the Philco Centralpull such as this one that I had installed on my Fothergill for a while:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5585404737_584223bb4d_b.jpg

It clamps to the stays. It would be possible to put it under the chain stays. It's not a very strong brake (perhaps the fault of the levers I used it with), but it would probably satisfy the legal requirement.

Dawes-man, I realize in your last post you have already (and rightly) rejected this type of option, but another brake that would be period correct and doesn't require drilling the frame is the Philco Centralpull such as this one that I had installed on my Fothergill for a while:

It clamps to the stays. It would be possible to put it under the chain stays. It's not a very strong brake (perhaps the fault of the levers I used it with), but it would probably satisfy the legal requirement.

Thanks for the suggestion, rhm. That's a pretty funky looking device and good to know about.

This is the look I'm aiming for:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5175/5388638523_9dc991d951.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/5388638523/)
IMG_5263 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/5388638523/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

In fact, when I get the Rotrax to Tokyo I'll be removing the components from this frame and fitting most of them to that. Then selling it as it's too small for me. This frame is drilled for a rear brake but the hole is filled with a reflector as I've been riding it fixed.

Okay, so what I thought was a ball-ring turned out to be the driver, which has no threads but keys into the brake with 2 ramps. Attempting to undo the hub by locking the brake arm and forcing that would have damaged something for sure.

This is the hub dismantled:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6669988467_8a05221fa7.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669988467/)
IMG_7628 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669988467/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

I'd wondered what the square hole in the 2 Sachs spanners I have were for. And duh, had wondered why one end of the hub axle was squared. The hole is for locking the axle when you undo the knurled locknut on the brake arm side. I had to put the spanner in a vice to get the locknut undone. I've discovered that the only chrome loss on the hub is on the squared end, which suggests the hub might have been dismantled before:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6669988613_f0fc12a41e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669988613/)
IMG_7629 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669988613/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

Ah, yes! The 73 year-old grease... this shows how the brake arm end driver keys into the brake drum:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6669989125_4773b86919.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669989125/)
IMG_7632 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669989125/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

And this shows how the drive-side driver keys into the brake drum via ramps - both these parts will dismantle further but I'll do that when the parts are clean and I can see exactly how they come apart and fit together:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6669988767_c883c80a96.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669988767/)
IMG_7630 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6669988767/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

Cleaned up, this hub reveals a couple of interesting things.

It doesn't have a freewheel 'click', for one thing, as it doesn't have pawls like every other freewheel or hub I've ever taken apart, from a single-speed through freewheels to gear hubs like Sturmey Archer and Torpedo Duomatics. Instead, this hub has 5 rollers in the driver which protrude from gaps in a 'thrust collar', like this:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6671961433_8c346d6d50.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961433/)
IMG_7638 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961433/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

Under the collar, the rollers sit in ramped cut-outs:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6675945801_f53f293d98.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6675945801/)
IMG_7640 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6675945801/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

When freewheeling, the rollers go to the deepest part of the cut-out and sink out of contact with the inside of the hub:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6671961303_7f6ab71a6b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961303/)
IMG_7636 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961303/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

But when driven, the rollers go to the shallower part and are pushed outwards and into contact with the inside of the hub, turning it:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6671961357_86b634fcb2.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961357/)
IMG_7637 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961357/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

For this reason, whereas Duomatic and SA hubs have thin shells that simply house the gear parts, the shell on this hub is an integral part of the hub's function and needs to be more substantial. The shell seems to be turned from a single piece of steel and it about 3 times as thick as an SA hub, for example. Rather expensive to manufacture, I should think.

So that's the drive end. The brake end is also surprisingly simple. Inside the brass drum there is another part which combines the drive-roller principal, this time with just 2 rollers, one of which is just visible at the bottom in the photo below, and a brass collar with 2 tongues. At first I thought the tongues effected a brake but then saw the rollers so I'm left not sure what purpose the tongues serve, as they can't be strong enough to act as the brake...:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6671961221_257596b9b3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961221/)
IMG_7635 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6671961221/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

All together, a very nice bit of kit! Coincidentally, this is only the 2nd time I have come across this method of allowing something to turn freely one way, but taking up drive when turned the other. The other was an old Lucas bell, also from the 1930s, that used small balls instead of rollers and featured in another thread of mine (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/782411-Lucas-No.32-Revolving-Bell-1930s-What-s-missing?p=13532899#post13532899) I was completely baffled until Glennfordx4 revealed all and pointed out it was the same system as a Briggs & Stratton starter clutch.

Now all that remains is for me to oil and grease the hub and then look forward to when I bring the Rotrax frame back to Tokyo and start the build. I'll probably start a new thread when that happens. Cheers me dears!

That is not only a beautiful bicycle frame, but also one gorgeous hub! I am really surprised that the hub is that pristine after all these years. I guess it is proof that they don't build them like they used to...

Wow, Dawes-Man, that frame and hub are both *gorgeous*. Can't wait to see the build thread.

there really is nothing like that old supertoxic superpolluting cyanide-process chrome, is there? I'm jealous. I've got two Torpedo 3-speed hubs, but would really like a prewar Duomatic.

there really is nothing like that old supertoxic superpolluting cyanide-process chrome, is there? I'm jealous. I've got two Torpedo 3-speed hubs, but would really like a prewar Duomatic.

The only thing I haven't done is lick this hub... thanks for the warning :)

Seriously, though, that's interesting. Thanks for the info. I know that in Japan there are only a couple of places that do good chrome, one known to Cherubim (used to be 3Rensho) who aren't telling anyone, try as we might when talking to them about this machine:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5217/5388647395_116a1a3880.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/5388647395/)
IMG_5244 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/5388647395/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

Thank you to everyone for your kind comments!

Coincidentally, this is only the 2nd time I have come across this method of allowing something to turn freely one way, but taking up drive when turned the other.

A decendant of this Fitchel&Sachs single-speed coaster hub, with its roller drive and roller braking, is still built today: the Czech Manufactured Velosteel (http://www.elegantwheels.net/VELOSTEEL.html).

Roller actuated coaster brakes are fairly common: The SRAM (nee F&S) IGHs, the Shimano IGHs and the S-A S2C use this. Shimano tried roller drive on their "silent freewheel" cassette freehubs some 15 years ago and was met with a collective yawn. Today, their silent freewheel derailleur hub is offered only in a special model as part of a law enforcement parts group. However, their lastest "Red Band" 8-speed IGH has three roller clutch drives inside, and the SG-8C31 8-speed IGH also incorporates the roller coaster, er, rather, a roller actuated coaster brake. The Shimano SG-3D55 has a single roller drive clutch and offers semi-silent operation (!).

A decendant of this Fitchel&Sachs single-speed coaster hub, with its roller drive and roller braking, is still built today: the Czech Manufactured Velosteel (http://www.elegantwheels.net/VELOSTEEL.html).

I've heard of that hub, or rather, I saw someone selling one on the internet, and I did consider getting one but decided I wanted something older.


...also incorporates the roller coaster, er, rather, a roller actuated coaster brake.

:D I like that!

Well, I live and learn... a lot through this forum. I had no idea it was such a common design. Thanks for the expo!