Your original statement was the worst sort of obnoxious cycling elitism. I stand by my original assesment of it.


If I weren't such an elitist, I'd be offended.

I've seen you make some thoughtless statements but this one absolutely takes the cake.
What is thoughtless about it? The rider was riding dangerously for all the reasons others have mentioned. I'm sorry for him, his family, and his friends. Maybe he was just trying to feed his family, but his death is a reminder of the dangers of violating the basic rules of safe cycling.

when my friends and i first started riding about 18 months ago, I had a 15 year old bianchi strada, and the rest were on mountain bikes - cheap mountain bikes from toys'r'us.

huffys in other words.

one guy on a huffy used to give me a run for my money on the bianchi.

he's a strong sonofagun

now that he's on a cannondale R5000, i don't have a prayer, even on my new lemond , but that's another story

if he had been hit and killed on his huffy, would you say he wasn't a 'cyclist'


that being said, this was a a cyclist, but not a very smart one.

The type of bike doesn't matter. The comments were directed to the dangerous way the guy was riding. My criticism would be the same whether the guy was on a $25 used Huffy MTB or a $10K carbon fiber road bike.

In all humility, we should also realize that everyone who has ridden for a long time has done a stupid thing or two (maybe not as dumb as riding on an interstate at night with dark clothes and no lights, but dumb nonetheless). If we're alive and contributing to this forum, it means we were lucky enough not to have paid too high a price for our stupidity.

The type of bike doesn't matter. The comments were directed to the dangerous way the guy was riding. My criticism would be the same whether the guy was on a $25 used Huffy MTB or a $10K carbon fiber road bike

Exactly, but in this forum it's apparent that any bike - auto incident is but another rallying point for cyclist rights. Doesn't matter that the "cyclist" in question might have been some crack dealer or some ass-clown rippin thru red lights. The car is always at fault. Personal Responsibility doesn't enter into the equation.

You'll have to excuse me now, I've got to air up the tires on my Jamis Durango and doff the Wally-World purchased attire for the ride into work. Not that an elitist such as myself would expect you common bike riding thugs to understand.

I have 12 bikes (it's an addiction) that include Cannondale, Lotus, Nishiki, Schwinn, Mongoose, etc. and yes..a huffy.
I race, tour, and commute.
I hope that if some unfortunate event befalls me while riding home from a day of building bikes for the local bike Co-op on my beater fixed gear huffy the folks on this forum will be gentler than they have been to this gentleman.
I have a Masters degree and work as a Sales Engineer when I am not donating time to charities
For the record:
Arizona white tail deer weigh between 80 and 125 lbs.
http://www.gf.state.az.us/h_f/game_cues.shtml

I find it interesting that people would rather argue a fact than take 30 seconds to look it up.
Enjoy

What is thoughtless about it? The rider was riding dangerously for all the reasons others have mentioned. I'm sorry for him, his family, and his friends. Maybe he was just trying to feed his family, but his death is a reminder of the dangers of violating the basic rules of safe cycling.

Let's not confuse a "cyclist" with "someone riding on a bike". This one was obvious the latter and has no one to blame but himself, tragic as any death may be.

To look at another segment of the population, I don't limit the descriptive title "driver" to Christian Fittipaldi and Michael Schumacher, or to long-haul truck drivers, or to drivers who impeccably maintain their expensive touring sedans, or to responsible owners of late-model midsize cars. Everyone who operates a motor vehicle is a driver. And the drivers at the bottom of the ladder, in terms of motoring equipment and ability, are no more or less worthy of the title that everyone else.

Look, to me, this guy was a cyclist. And whether this makes me guilty of some sort of prejudice or not, I'll tell you what immediately came to mind when I read the description of the accident, what was left of him and his bike...I thought of the day laborers who line up for work at the corner around the way from my house. I'd guess half of them bike to the shape-up and lock up for the day, and then come back after a long day of work and bike home. And no, as far as I've seen, none of them wear helmets, or signal, or wear brightly colored reflective vests, and for many of them, a Huffy would be a big step up the cycling ladder from the beaters they ride. But I'll tell you something else about those guys. They ride every f'n day, in weather that would make most of us leave the bike inside. They ride early. They ride late. And even if they don't know Merckx or Lemond or Armstrong from a hole in the wall, even if they are the least educated on cycling safety and etiquette, they are cyclists.

I have a pretty big-tent definition of cycling and cyclists, I guess. (Probably part of my "obvious leanings," whatever that was supposed to mean.) But I think it's small-minded and vicious to turn on the smallest, weakest and least able among us and push them out of the cycling fold because they don't meet some self-serving narrow definition of what cycling is and is not, especially when these workaday, commuting cyclists are the ones who most need protection from and education about the hazards all cyclists face.

For the record:
Arizona white tail deer weigh between 80 and 125 lbs.
http://www.gf.state.az.us/h_f/game_cues.shtml


...and you really don't want to get into it with an elk or a moose:

http://www.antelope.org/weights/estimate_weights.htm

Laika, I think it is demeaning and thoughtless to assume that people who ride "low-end" bikes can't ride safely.

Laika, I think it is demeaning and thoughtless to assume that people who ride "low-end" bikes can't ride safely.

I know. That's exactly the impression I've been trying to fight here. I can't see how you would have taken that away from what I posted, but if you got the impression I thought that about low end bike riders, it was in no way what I intended.

Laika,
Thank you and well said.
Al

Anyone who has ridden for a long time has done a stupid thing or two (maybe not as dumb as riding on an interstate at night with dark clothes and no lights, but dumb nonetheless). If we're alive and contributing to this forum, it means we were lucky enough not to have paid too high a price for our stupidity.

This is the truth.

Have ridden that area fince 1978. Have actually cycled that part of I-10; why? The frontage road had been chip sealed (nasty small size pointy gravel, great for flats) and opted to ride I-10 shoulder (in daylight).
Regards to the frontage road in that area, it is no safer than I-10! In broad daylight on Halloween last year, Kay and I were riding our tandem and got hit at about 45 mph from behind by a pickup truck. Truck stopped 'cause his westcoast mirror got busted and he realized he'd hit 'something.' Turns out the driver was in in his mid-70s,
We were wearing bright orange jerseys and riding on a one-way frontage road on the right side side of road. Driver claims he did not see us!!!
Asked him what did he see; he said, "Well, I try to drive between the lines!"
We were the happiest folks in the emergency room, as we were still alive!
Rudy and Kay/Zona tandem

...and you really don't want to get into it with an elk or a moose:



In Anchorage, "There's a moose in my yard and I can't leave the house" is a valid excuse for being late to work.

-Phoenix to/from Tuscon rush hour traffic on I-10 is either dense, slow and agressive or fast and agressive and feels very dangous even in a car. Al

Agree completely. I hate driving this stretch. They are wiedening a few more miles of it to three lanes right now. It is not at all unusual to pass an accident scene in this stretch. I use it fairly frequently on business trips to Phoenix or to visit my grandkid. It is tense. I wouldn't ride a bike along it broad daylight.

Agree completely. I hate driving this stretch. They are wiedening a few more miles of it to three lanes right now. It is not at all unusual to pass an accident scene in this stretch. I use it fairly frequently on business trips to Phoenix or to visit my grandkid. It is tense. I wouldn't ride a bike along it broad daylight.

i admit to driving in the 90s on that strech fairly often when i lived in the area. i remember once doing 90 mph and getting passed by other people! it's crazy sometimes.

This is a story I find hard to believe..Told to me by couple I work with...They were driving back from Las Vegas to Los Angeles...In the desert, just east of Baker, California on Interstate 15- there was an accident...Couple cars toppled over...Cars in road...She told me, bodies were lying on the road...With bodies strewn about, traffic refused to stop...Not until the police showed up...
Must have been a path way about car debris and bodies...But, cars whizzed by before bodies could be removed...Jerri said some good samaratian types who knew first aide tried to help...
Felt intimidated by cars whizzing by...
Incredible hah...Jerri seems like an honest person to me..
Believe it or not..

I can't believe that either :(

I mean for god sakes what is wrong with some people ? I wish there were more honest people out there. I know there more honest people than not but still it seems like its catching up.

Did she say what she did while the cars were whizzing by the bodies before the police got there?

Folks... I don't believe the victim riding the Huffy was doomed to live in that cycle hostile city the rest of his life. People really think moving out of the burbs is impossible but I find it's much easier when you have little or nothing. I've met loads of people who moved thousands of miles away with nothing but what they hand on their backs. There are many governement agencies in every city out there that would have helped him. It's not impossible.

I'll agree with don d, you are out of touch.

And with the number of deer carcasses in the Mid-Atlantic area, I would assume I hit a deer and probably keep going. I'm not even sure I would call and report it, so kudos to those drivers that did report "something".

Deer carcasses on the road are not a problem in Arizona. And, just this last year the Catholic Bishop of Phoenix was convicted of leaving the scene of a fatal accident after he hit and left a drunken pedestrian crossing the street. The bishop claimed he believed that he had hit a large dog... Some dog: an over 200-pound native American, who cracked the bishop's windshield on impact.

In a car or truck, if you hit something large and are unsure of what you hit, you should stop; human or animal, what you hit may need help. If you are unwilling to do this, perhaps, you should not drive a motor vehicle. We are responsible for our actions or--in your case--inactions.

[I]
In a car or truck, if you hit something large and are unsure of what you hit, you should stop; human or animal, what you hit may need help. If you are unwilling to do this, perhaps, you should not drive a motor vehicle. We are responsible for our actions or--in your case--inactions.

Agreed because you really can't tell what you have hit inless you stop and check.

Deer carcasses on the road are not a problem in Arizona. And, just this last year the Catholic Bishop of Phoenix was convicted of leaving the scene of a fatal accident after he hit and left a drunken pedestrian crossing the street. The bishop claimed he believed that he had hit a large dog... Some dog: an over 200-pound native American, who cracked the bishop's windshield on impact.



I have had to dodge many deer and elk carcasses on the interstate here in Arizona over my last 18 years of driving. Have even hit a few (live deer, not carcasses) myself, luckily I wasn't going fast enough to hurt either of us at the time (one on Snowbowl road near Flagstaff, and one near Lake Roosevelt in the desert). Theres signs all over warning about dear and elk crossings. I have seen signs warning of deer crossings in the desert areas too.