Touring - A Poor Man's/More Affordable Thorn Sherpa Equivalent?

I've been looking at getting a new bike for ocassional commuting, but also long-distance touring. I want a rig with 26" wheels that can handle some rough conditions. I absolutely love the Thorn Sherpa, but it's a bit pricey for me. Does anyone know of a similar bike that is less expensive?

I've also looked at the LHT, but the bb is too low, and it can't handle rough, steep terrain. Any suggestions are appreciated :beer:

I would look for late 80's MTB in steel. I have a 1989 Giant Iguana that is set up similarly to the Thorn. Surly does make other bikes...

Aaron :)
http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/47506/2637166980066886751S600x600Q85.jpg

Salsa Fargo? Though, that might have 29 inch wheels.

Surly Troll. I got one. I don't know how close of a match it would be, but I do know of several blogs of people riding from Alaska to Argentina on them.

I've been looking at getting a new bike for ocassional commuting, but also long-distance touring. I want a rig with 26" wheels that can handle some rough conditions. I absolutely love the Thorn Sherpa, but it's a bit pricey for me. Does anyone know of a similar bike that is less expensive?

I've also looked at the LHT, but the bb is too low, and it can't handle rough, steep terrain. Any suggestions are appreciated :beer:


Once you put 2.0" tires on a 26" LHT the bb isn't very low anymore. A "poor mans" bike is whatever you have. It's not clear what you want besides everything for little cost. Could you narrow down to a price bracket and intended use for 80% of the time?

btw, "rough steep terrain" is far enough into mtn. bike territory where a front shock becomes worthwhile. So be honest what you're looking for.

I would look for late 80's MTB in steel. I have a 1989 Giant Iguana that is set up similarly to the Thorn. Surly does make other bikes...

Aaron :)
http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/47506/2637166980066886751S600x600Q85.jpg
Yes... or even get an early-mid 80's ATB.

I've also looked at the LHT, but the bb is too low, and it can't handle rough, steep terrain. Any suggestions are appreciated :beer:

What type of terrain are you describing? My LHT is regularly taken off-road and it works well (e.g. see image). Perhaps Surly Troll or Orge would better fit your desires?

Any old rigid fork, hardtail MTB ,,strip it down and rebuild it as you wish.

Why can't the LHT handle rough steep terrain?

Have you considered building up the Sherpa from the frameset? I'm 100% certain I could build a Sherpa that is perfectly tour worthy for less than £1330. I built up my LHT for a bit less money than the complete LHT (€1200) but mine included good dynohub and lights (B&M), Brooks saddle, hand built LX wheels (done by a pro, not by me), SKS fenders and Tubus rear rack... I saved hundreds :)
Btw: they have a £100 discount on all Thorn bikes this month.

... ... I've also looked at the LHT, but the bb is too low, and it can't handle rough, steep terrain. Any suggestions are appreciated :beer:

Are you sure that the bottom bracket is that much lower on the LHT than on the Sherpa? I have both a 700c LHT with 37mm width tires and a Thorn Sherpa with 26X2.0 tires. I have not measured the bottom bracket height, but when I stop at a stoplight and have one foot on the ground, the two bikes feel like they have comparable bottom bracket heights.


... ... Have you considered building up the Sherpa from the frameset? I'm 100% certain I could build a Sherpa that is perfectly tour worthy for less than £1330. ... ...

New Thorn Sherpa frame and fork is quite expensive with expensive shipping to USA. I got lucky, I bought my Sherpa frame and fork used from someone that had bought the wrong size.


... ... I absolutely love the Thorn Sherpa, but it's a bit pricey for me. Does anyone know of a similar bike that is less expensive? ... ...

If you can figure out how to have one delivered to Canada instead of Seattle, you might get a better price. The guy that sold me his used Sherpa frame and fork had it shipped to his home in Canada. I was shocked when he told me how much lower the shipping costs were to Canada than to USA.


I would look for late 80's MTB in steel. I have a 1989 Giant Iguana that is set up similarly to the Thorn. Surly does make other bikes...

If you look at older steel MTB bikes, look at chainstay length, you might have trouble getting panniers mounted without causing heel strike issues. I have an old Bridgestone MTB that has short chainstays.

If you look at older steel MTB bikes, look at chainstay length, you might have trouble getting panniers mounted without causing heel strike issues. I have an old Bridgestone MTB that has short chainstays.

+1 - Chainstay length is really important. If you find a used bike, make sure it has a chainstay of at least 450mm long. I've found that some of the late 80s and early 90s steel MTB/hybrid Treks are quite suitable.

Are you sure that the bottom bracket is that much lower on the LHT than on the Sherpa? I have both a 700c LHT with 37mm width tires and a Thorn Sherpa with 26X2.0 tires. I have not measured the bottom bracket height, but when I stop at a stoplight and have one foot on the ground, the two bikes feel like they have comparable bottom bracket heights.

If you look at older steel MTB bikes, look at chainstay length, you might have trouble getting panniers mounted without causing heel strike issues. I have an old Bridgestone MTB that has short chainstays.

ditto on bb height. I've got a 56cm Cross-Check with 35mm tires and 56cm LHT with 2.0 tires, the top tube is higher on the LHT, I'll go measure the bb height. Seems to me a strongly sloped top tube is as important for off road riding as 1/2" of bb height but the OP is really covering a huge range of uses without specifying which use is primary.

Also regarding those old mtn bikes, as you say not all are ideal. I had various mtn bikes from that era with 17" chainstays and I know they couldn't carry a heavy rear load as comfortably as I had on my LHT yesterday.

wait, AlanK, I found your bike!

if you're under 5'6" a Novara Safari with 26" wheels for $900

Well, I just looked at the Surly Troll, and it looks just about perfect!!! :) I was basically looking for a 26" wheeled bike, with no suspension, and decent, reliable components. I feel like a complete idiot for missing it on the Surly web site; I just didn't scroll down far enough :bang:

It's spec'd mostly with not-fancy-but-reliable Deore comps; about the only thing I'd change for a long tour would be the saddle (still fine for short rides). The new price isn't bad (about $1300), and if I'm patient I'm sure I can find a decent used one for under $1K.

Thanx to everyone for the suggestions, and especially to Jude for finding my perfect rig :beer:


...
wait, AlanK, I found your bike!

if you're under 5'6" a Novara Safari with 26" wheels for $900

I've looked at it, but I'm 5'9". I do like it though. It seems like a great value for what you get; while the comps aren't top-of-the-line, Deore comps are still very reliable. I'm not crazy about the grip-shifters though.

What about building up a Thorn Ripio? The Ripio is a strong steel MTB frame with a rigid fork option, for those who aren't familiar with it.

Alan,

I didn't realize you were in Seattle. This may be a little bit out of your current budget, but you may also want to give it serious consideration should you decide to go "new." Right in your own backyard you've got Rodriguez Bicycles (http://www.rodcycle.com/). They have a model called the UTB ($1295 for frame & fork.) After tons of research, it has become my top choice for a 26" wheel touring frame. These guys have been handmaking steel road, touring and tandem frames/bikes since the 70s. They will work closely with you in regard to all your needs from fitting you to spec'ing your rig with the components of your choice, no matter where you decide to buy them. They will even work with you if you have special requests with the frame geometry (e.g., longer chainstays, higher bottom bracket, accomodating thicker tires for off-road touring, etc.) For a little extra you can even get a frame that is "future-ready" being both derailleur and chain/belt Rohloff-compliant and ready for canti/disk brakes. This will take care of any "growing" needs. Thorn won't do this as their frames are outsourced to a factory in Taiwan. Rodriguez costs a little more money (sticker price) but I find it really well worth it and a great value for a frame handmade in North America. At the end of the day buying from Thorn in the U.K. is a wash due to shipping, customs duties & taxes, etc.

What about building up a Thorn Ripio?

They are shipped from the UK, so there is the currency exchange thing,

It's not 1:1, but like 1:1.6, or something like that, ie, more dollars needed.

Well, I just looked at the Surly Troll, and it looks just about perfect!!! :) I was basically looking for a 26" wheeled bike, with no suspension, and decent, reliable components. I feel like a complete idiot for missing it on the Surly web site; I just didn't scroll down far enough :bang:

It's spec'd mostly with not-fancy-but-reliable Deore comps; about the only thing I'd change for a long tour would be the saddle (still fine for short rides). The new price isn't bad (about $1300), and if I'm patient I'm sure I can find a decent used one for under $1K.

Thanx to everyone for the suggestions, and especially to Jude for finding my perfect rig :beer:



I've looked at it, but I'm 5'9". I do like it though. It seems like a great value for what you get; while the comps aren't top-of-the-line, Deore comps are still very reliable. I'm not crazy about the grip-shifters though.

I have a 2007 Safari when they still were the Euro expedition design with 26" wheels and disk brakes. The Surly Troll is real close to this. The only noticeable difference I can see is that Troll is steel and the top tube might be more angled. The Troll has more attachment points and frame options. Especially important with the Safari and Troll is that the frame has been designed for panniers and carrying touring weight as compared to a 80's/90's era hard tail. I really thought REI dropped the ball when they went away from the European expedition design when they came out with the new Safari. There were very few 26" touring bikes like this on the market in the US. Kudles to Surly for picking up the slack. IMO this is one of the more functional bike designs especially if your looking for a rugged bike that can tour and handle a lot of commuting. There are better pure tourers out there, but I think this design does both very well and there is not a lot of compromise.

There are issues with Novara safari.
- Very heavy 30 pounds and that is just the bike.
- I have rarely seen anyone who claimed that the distance between seat and handle was comfortable enough. For some reason REI thinks people have realyy long monkey arms :-) One has to add handle bar raiser.
- You WILL lag behind if you are in a group.
- I am not a big fan of helmet mirrors so I have been looking for mirrors that would suit Safari's butterfly bar, but I have found none so far. So good luck with that!

Other than that I don't see any issue.

They are shipped from the UK, so there is the currency exchange thing,

It's not 1:1, but like 1:1.6, or something like that, ie, more dollars needed.

I bought a Thorn Ripio frame a few years ago from Thorn's online site: http://sjscycles.com. You can select the currency you want the prices displayed in. With Thorn frames, you basically pay the "list" price because at checkout they subtract the VAT (which US buyers don't pay) and then add the shipping which was close to the VAT subtracted - so it was a wash.

The Ripio is a great bike but if Surly had the Troll available at the time, I probably would have gone with a Troll.

Nice, I'm glad I put you on to the Troll! I'm loving this bike so far. It mountain-bikes well (well, not that I have any basis for comparison) and from my limited experience, tours well. Cass Gilbert from www.whileoutriding.com says his has done a great job with some heavy-duty touring. It's suspension ready, you can put any combination of brakes, racks, fenders and other add-ons on there, and it's Rohloff-ready as well. Great bike and I don't think there's anything else like it in its price range.

I have a 2007 Safari when they still were the Euro expedition design with 26" wheels and disk brakes. The Surly Troll is real close to this. The only noticeable difference I can see is that Troll is steel and the top tube might be more angled. The Troll has more attachment points and frame options. Especially important with the Safari and Troll is that the frame has been designed for panniers and carrying touring weight as compared to a 80's/90's era hard tail. I really thought REI dropped the ball when they went away from the European expedition design when they came out with the new Safari. There were very few 26" touring bikes like this on the market in the US. Kudles to Surly for picking up the slack. IMO this is one of the more functional bike designs especially if your looking for a rugged bike that can tour and handle a lot of commuting. There are better pure tourers out there, but I think this design does both very well and there is not a lot of compromise.

That's the way it looks to me. For commuting and touring on pavement and dirt roads in decent condition, it's not perfect, but it should be highly capable. I would guess it's probably more fun to ride unladen than pure touring rigs.

And the stock complete bike is pretty well spec'd. If I were gonna do serious long-distance touring I'd probably considering replacing the wheels with something built around a 36-spoke hub, and probably get a better seat. While the cranks are a bit low-end, it's not a component that's likely to fail, so I'd probably just ride them until they wore out. Even if you were to upgrade those 3 components, after selling the originals, you'd have a great, new do-anything bike for around $1500 (and probably around $1K for used bike in good condition).

Salsa Vaya (or Fargo if you need something really heavy duty).

Bruce Gordon BLT

Soma Saga

Salsa Vaya (or Fargo if you need something really heavy duty).

Bruce Gordon BLT

Soma Saga

Those are great dedicated touring bikes, but from what I can tell none will handle rougher conditions as well as the Troll. The Fargo is pretty close in terms of ruggedness, but I'd prefer something with 26" wheels.

Right, I'd like to hear from owners of Novara Safari bikes - that lonnnng geometry from the seat post to the head piece just looks weird. I'd buy one if it wasn't for that; with proper geometry it's a great bang for the buck. But it's only good for cannibalizing if the frame can't be ridden. Alan, have you looked at anything offered by Raleigh? They know a little something about touring bikes, I think.


There are issues with Novara safari.
- Very heavy 30 pounds and that is just the bike.
- I have rarely seen anyone who claimed that the distance between seat and handle was comfortable enough. For some reason REI thinks people have realyy long monkey arms :-) One has to add handle bar raiser.
- You WILL lag behind if you are in a group.
- I am not a big fan of helmet mirrors so I have been looking for mirrors that would suit Safari's butterfly bar, but I have found none so far. So good luck with that!

Other than that I don't see any issue.