Living Car Free - I want to sell my car but what if...

...I have a baby. I will be getting married this summer and a baby is sure to follow. Winter temperatures reach -20 degrees here. How will I transport my child?

Thanks for the ideas!

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EDIT: The following scenerios have all been solved already,

...I brake my leg. I am an avid rockclimber and mountainbiker and braking a leg or spraining an ankle will likely happen sometime in my future.

...I need to visit my parents. They live 160 miles away in a small town that I visit 6 or 7 times a year.

...I want to go backpacking. My destinations are usually beyond a 200 mile radius of where I currently live. These are places that buses do not visit.

...I need a quick adventure. A couple times a month I will get off work at 5pm, drive 40 miles out of the city, and hike into the wilderness for the night then head home early before sunrise the next morning.

I honestly want the best ideas you have. Selling my car would be so wonderful for me but these are the reasons why I am unable to do it :(. My biggest worries are commuting with an injury and long distance travel with a time constraint. Thanks guys!

All you can do is research rental car prices and bus prices for longer distance trips. Which will cost you more to use for all of your regular trips? If you get injured you'll need to know the price of a taxi cab. You might not be able to drive your own car with an injury too. Think about that one. You would need to spend money on a taxi and your car ownership with a twisted or broken right leg.

You might not be able to drive your own car with an injury too. Think about that one. You would need to spend money on a taxi and your car ownership with a twisted or broken right leg.


Been there, done that. I broke my right fibula a couple of years ago. No car driving or bike riding for me for 7 weeks.

For the OP, if you are driving 40 miles out of town twice a month after getting off work at 5, I think you'll have to stick to having a car. It is too far to even bike to those destinations at that time of night.

Good luck! Maybe there is another poster who has a better imagination than me as to how you would maintain your current lifestyle while living car free.

Well, I'll relate what I have done with situations like you describe:

Broken leg? Sprained ankle? Been there, done that. I have never had a problem getting around by bike with sprained ankles (I played lots of basketball). It's much easier riding than walking. I admit that I was put on the couch for a couple of weeks when I broke my leg, but that was largely due to the ligament damage. Again, I was happily riding long before I could walk to the mailbox. I don't think I would have been any more mobile with a car.

My parents lived 110 miles away when I first went carfree. Whenever I wanted to visit, I just got on a bike and rode on down. If I was feeling lazy then I would take the train and walk the final eight miles. It is a 130 mile bike ride to Portland from where I currently live and that doesn't stop me from visiting friends who live there. Obviously, your winter weather will make a difference, but I'm sure it would be cheaper to rent a car a few times per year for these visits than it is to own one. Plus, the rental cars are usually nicer than what most of us own.

As far as backpacking and those overnight recharge trips: You can either ride to them, rent a car, or find the joy of touring by bike. If you want to backpack 200 miles away, you can get there in two days easily, find a place to secure the bike, enjoy some backpacking, and then ride home. You will miss a couple of days of hiking, but the days of riding can be a pleasant substitute. I rarely backpack anymore because I enjoy touring by bicycle much more, but when I do hit the trail I either ride to it or take a bus. It's too bad you don't have bus service that goes anywhere that you want to hike. My last "recharge" trip was just after New Years. I rode 100 miles to the beach, camped for the night, and rode home the next morning.

Wow, thank you guys. My biggest concern (being unable to ride with an injury) has been dismissed. Also, after checking rental car prices I have realized that visiting my parents or going backpacking twice a month would still be WAY cheaper than my monthly car payment and that doesnt include insurance. The only scenerio I have left is: what about my future children? Do you guys transport newborns on bicycles? What about in Minnesotan weathers!?

The only scenerio I have left is: what about my future children? Do you guys transport newborns on bicycles? What about in Minnesotan weathers!?

By future child, do you mean hypothetical future child? Or do you have one in the oven already, so to speak?

If hypothetical, I wouldn't worry about it right now. Some people who sell their car bank the money for a while. that way, if the carfree experiment doesn't work out, they have money for a used car, or a down payment on a new one.

If you're actually expecting a baby soon, I have no experience in the matter. But I do know that are ways to keep kids warm outdoors in very cold weather. The early settlers of Duluth certainly had to take their babies outdoors in the wintertime, and they didn't have our modern miracle fabrics. and what about the Indians who lived in that region a few hundred years ago? They certainly didn't have heated minivans to keep their babies warm--and they did most of their travelling in the winter.

Yes, this is a hypothetical baby. However one of my main goals in life is to create offspring that betters our world so it is only a matter of time before I get the "oven cooking", haha. I suppose I am less concered about the air temperature than I am the road conditions at those temperatures. How many of you would be willing to carry your newborn child with cars speeding by only a few feet away?

You really need a vehicle, or a ride in a vehicle with a newborn. That does not mean you need to own a car, you need access when the kid is sick though. You can't put a newborn in a bicycle kid trailer. They need to be older, it may even be law where you live. Riding in snow or frozen ice ruts next to a car can toss you right in front of a car if the conditions are right.
Maybe you can buy a less costly car and get lower insurance rates ?

Yes, this is a hypothetical baby. However one of my main goals in life is to create offspring that betters our world so it is only a matter of time before I get the "oven cooking", haha. I suppose I am less concered about the air temperature than I am the road conditions at those temperatures. How many of you would be willing to carry your newborn child with cars speeding by only a few feet away?

I do have some experience in transporting children. One thing I've noticed is that for several years, just after the birth, you sort of remain a home body. At least that's how it was for us.

Actually if you think that it would take 6 months to become pregnant, then 9 months to conceive, then probably two years where you didn't need to travel that much... it would actually be quite a while before you'd really need a car. Or think you need a car.

All of this depends on a number of things. Where you live, your proximity to taxis, buses, bike paths. The weather (ok I notice you live in Duluth, but it's not the North Pole...) plays a role.

Going two years without a car? I'd reckon it would be an interesting experiment for you.

http://manchestercycling.blogspot.com/2011/04/ride-report-bakfiets.html

http://manchestercycling.blogspot.com/2011/04/ride-report-bakfiets.html

Actually, weld on a rollcage and strap a babyseat in there a crash may not end much worse than in a car.

Remember that you can basically walk into a car dealership on any given day and drive out. You could sell the car and start putting "car payments" into a savings account, just for the purpose of buying a car. Then you could make it a game to see how long you can get by without one, knowing that you could bail out of that lifestyle on about 24 hours notice. My personal worry would be that a kid would get sick suddenly in the middle of the night, in winter, on Saturday, and you would want to go to the hospital. But remember, the kid is not here yet.

If the car is paid for, you could reduce the insurance to the minimum and try to run it only about once every two weeks just to keep it functioning. Your real goal it to not use a car any more than you have to, not necessarily to not have one in the first place. Sometimes there are not perfect solutions.

My personal worry would be that a kid would get sick suddenly in the middle of the night, in winter, on Saturday, and you would want to go to the hospital.

I think that's every parent's nightmare, but if you have a contingency plan, I think you can handle these scary situations even if you don't have a car.

For one thing, you probably have some friends or relatives who would be happy to drive your sick kid to the hospital--even in the middle of the night. Cabs are available 24/7 in most communities. Tell the taxi dispatcher that the situation is "urgent but not exactly an emergency."

And if it is an emergency, an ambulance is usually a better choice than driving to the hospital.

What would really be hard would be if you had a sick kid who had to be hospitalized (or go to frequent outpatient appointments) in a different city. If that happened, you might need to buy a car, rent one, or turn to friends or relatives to loan you one for the duration.

Just a quick note on the sick kid aspect. This is where a taxi comes in very handy. We've had to do this a couple times with our two kids. Once was Halloween at about midnight. We were informed that it would be 2-3 hours for a cab, but after explaining that it was a medical issue, we were bumped and a cab showed up at our door in about 10 minutes. If it's the sort of illness/emergency where you can't wait for a taxi, then an ambulance is probably the appropriate option anyway. We've also taken the bus to the hospital for less urgent needs (a bead stuck up the nose is apparently something Urgent Care can't handle around here).

Just a quick note on the sick kid aspect. This is where a taxi comes in very handy. We've had to do this a couple times with our two kids. Once was Halloween at about midnight. We were informed that it would be 2-3 hours for a cab, but after explaining that it was a medical issue, we were bumped and a cab showed up at our door in about 10 minutes. If it's the sort of illness/emergency where you can't wait for a taxi, then an ambulance is probably the appropriate option anyway. We've also taken the bus to the hospital for less urgent needs (a bead stuck up the nose is apparently something Urgent Care can't handle around here).

This what I have done in the past with my two. I also had an agreement with a neighbor that if an emergency popped up they could call us or we could call them and between the two of us we would get someone to the hospital/ER if needed. At the time we were both single car families and our spouses worked opposing shifts. Worked great for both of us. I took his wife and son to the ER one morning after Jr fell off the swing set, he took my wife and daughter to the ER late one evening when my daughter had a violent allergic reaction to something.

When we were living in a different town the ER was about 2 miles away and taxi service was excellent, we used that on more than one occasion.

Aaron :)

Or you can leave the car in the garage and leave it as "nonoperated". This way you won't get vehicle license fees and insurance fees. Don't operate the car at all. Of course I would only do this if I really love that car or that car is just a piece of junk.

Or you can leave the car in the garage and leave it as "nonoperated". This way you won't get vehicle license fees and insurance fees. Don't operate the car at all. Of course I would only do this if I really love that car or that car is just a piece of junk.

But leaving a car in a non-operational state is like having a boat anchor attached to you when you are trying to swim. A car that is laid up for a long time usually has a few problems and isn't reliable enough when you really need it. If you have a car, you probably ought to use it occasionally to make sure the battery is fully charged and the the brakes haven't seized up.

The thought of having to use up a considerable square footage on a tool I wasn't using... that doesn't seem right.

Go for it and see how you like it. Put the savings in a "Special Account" if you can. When the baby comes in a few years you can buy a cheap car for those unavoidable times when you need one. Here's an example of a cheap car in your area for $450 http://duluth.craigslist.org/cto/2812341476.html.

It's recommended to wait till 6 months+ till you transport a baby in a trailer so the first few months you'll have to figure things out. If stores are close they have great backpacks/frontpacks/mobi wraps for going out with the baby. I think it is important to be out with the little one and not stuck at home. We visited 25 states and camped when my daughter was 3 months. I also think there are ways to make a trailer warm in winter. I haven't had to do it but you could use blankets/winter clothes/hotwater bags/warming bags etc.

This what I have done in the past with my two. I also had an agreement with a neighbor that if an emergency popped up they could call us or we could call them and between the two of us we would get someone to the hospital/ER if needed. At the time we were both single car families and our spouses worked opposing shifts. Worked great for both of us. I took his wife and son to the ER one morning after Jr fell off the swing set, he took my wife and daughter to the ER late one evening when my daughter had a violent allergic reaction to something.

One wonderful thing about being carfree is that it encourages you to become an active member of your neighborhood and community. Neighbors used to always help each other lut like this, but nowadays most peole don't even know their neighbors.

By the time I have a kid I will have finished Paramedic school. Maybe the station I work at will give me discounts on ambulance rides :lol:. But like you guys said I am not going to worry about the kid until I have one. I guess technically I have no reason not to sell my car anymore.

I don't know. I needed to go out quite a bit with my newborns. With breastfeeding, it's just fine with a wrap or sling, I've done that walking around the grocery store. But how far to the dr's? Do you want your newborn on public transit? My second child was a preemie and had a difficult time building up an immune system and had feeding problems. His circulation wasn't very good and while his sister had gotten around in the stroller bundled up in extreme cold just fine, he was different. We had to warm up the car before he went in the car. For walks outside, I bundled him in a wrap so I could carry him skin to skin under my coat to help him keep warm. I looked like an elephant but he needed to be skin to skin to stay warm. We really needed our car. In general, with a baby, I'd recommend having a car until their 1st b-day. It's not the emergencies that would really be the problem. It's in the day to day things where it can get to be a bit much. I have 3 kids and we've stopped using our car and we're getting it ready to sell. But my youngest is 3yo.

Babies are just so hard to predict. Their feeding schedules are all over the place. I can imagine biking to a dr's appointment and a 3 month old deciding to feed RIGHT NOW! Are you going to do that in the slush at the side of the road? Where do you change explosive diapers on the way to places? I've pulled the car over and changed them on the front seat. Where do you do that with a bike? I'm having a difficult time picturing how this would work.

I've never owned a car in my life. Got married (and separated), had two gorgeous girls and took them everywhere in a bargain basement bike trailer. I never encountered -20 temperatures but theres tons of room in those trailers for extra blanketing and so on. On the rare occasions when they were really sick, an ambulance was called or a taxi was used. Both girls love the trailer although my eldest, now 8yrs is too big for it now. The trailer is just as old and despite looking a little worse for wear, still runs smooth. Every kid is different and I'm lucky in that mine were very rarely ill. If things get too rough, you can always return to car life again. :)

I don't know. I needed to go out quite a bit with my newborns. With breastfeeding, it's just fine with a wrap or sling, I've done that walking around the grocery store. But how far to the dr's? Do you want your newborn on public transit? My second child was a preemie and had a difficult time building up an immune system and had feeding problems. His circulation wasn't very good and while his sister had gotten around in the stroller bundled up in extreme cold just fine, he was different. We had to warm up the car before he went in the car. For walks outside, I bundled him in a wrap so I could carry him skin to skin under my coat to help him keep warm. I looked like an elephant but he needed to be skin to skin to stay warm. We really needed our car. In general, with a baby, I'd recommend having a car until their 1st b-day. It's not the emergencies that would really be the problem. It's in the day to day things where it can get to be a bit much. I have 3 kids and we've stopped using our car and we're getting it ready to sell. But my youngest is 3yo.

Babies are just so hard to predict. Their feeding schedules are all over the place. I can imagine biking to a dr's appointment and a 3 month old deciding to feed RIGHT NOW! Are you going to do that in the slush at the side of the road? Where do you change explosive diapers on the way to places? I've pulled the car over and changed them on the front seat. Where do you do that with a bike? I'm having a difficult time picturing how this would work.

I certainly defer to your experience and wisdom when it comes to this issue. I do imagine there might be some locations or circumstances where it would be OK to be carfree with an infant?

As for changing a diaper, if I had an infant on a bike I guess I'd stop at a gas station, fast food place, or anywhere else that has a reasonably clean public restroom. Most public restrooms around here have changing tables--even in the mens' rooms. In warm weather I'd probably use a picnic table, bench, or even a blanket on the grass.

I'm guessing if you live somewhere with more mild winters, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But Duluth is further north than me. Sudbury is about the same latitude and I've seen temps dropping as low as -35c there. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/blue-skin-in-babies It's not unusual for babies to have blue skin due to an immature circulatory system and that's at room temperature. Not to say no baby is going to be okay in the trailer, just I would be very cautious.

I guess for diaper changes you really need to plan stops in advance. I've changed diapers in the car before because I've been caught by surprise when places didn't have counter space or diaper stations in their bathrooms.

I certainly defer to your experience and wisdom when it comes to this issue. I do imagine there might be some locations or circumstances where it would be OK to be carfree with an infant?

As for changing a diaper, if I had an infant on a bike I guess I'd stop at a gas station, fast food place, or anywhere else that has a reasonably clean public restroom. Most public restrooms around here have changing tables--even in the mens' rooms. In warm weather I'd probably use a picnic table, bench, or even a blanket on the grass.

Warm weather the world is your changing station if you have supplies a plastic bag to take the dirty nappy with you.

There's no way I'd cart a newborn around on a bike. Lots of people have babies without autos obviously, but given a choice I would never advise cycling as an option for them for two reasons: you still have a life as a couple, and that baby is with one of you 100% of the time. You can't use a kiddie trailer until a certain age (as far as I know) and a papoose setup on a bike is not a great idea either. So you're not cycling out for dinner if that's your thing, but walking or taking a cab. The second reason is during pregnancy the convenience of driving is worth it, in my opinion.

If the cab is convenient and feasible, problem solved. But the other option is simply keep enough cash in reserve to purchase a beater car should the situation merit. You'd have nine months warning right? And it only needs to last a year or two so it doesn't need to be much. Then you can be carfree again if you wish until school age, when you may need to revisit the question.

Just my two cents.

The kiddie needs to able to support his/her head with (depending on what your view on them is) a helmet against the forces of turning, braking and acceleration. Mine didnt go in the trailer until they were 16-18 months old. You could probably bodge the inside safety harness to hold a child car seat if they are younger, but unless the strapping is rock solid, I wouldnt recommend it.

if the weather conditions are such that you wouldn't bike anywhere with a kid in a trailer, you probably don't need to be driving the kid anywhere either.

It is not weather conditions that are the main concern. The law in Georgia is a little convoluted about it, but basically says that you cannot transport a child under one year of age in a trailer or sling, but you can if you follow all of the manufacturers' directions. There is a good reason to discourage it: it's not safe for children of that age. Even if you think you know what you're doing, it's not advisable.

It is not weather conditions that are the main concern. The law in Georgia is a little convoluted about it, but basically says that you cannot transport a child under one year of age in a trailer or sling, but you can if you follow all of the manufacturers' directions. There is a good reason to discourage it: it's not safe for children of that age. Even if you think you know what you're doing, it's not advisable.

Really? do you have a link to that law? And what do you believe is the leading cause of death for American children?

I'm just going to throw this out there: sometimes the law is stupid.

This particular post bellow illustrates exactly why I sometimes consider myself lucky to be living in an area that has a high population of people from countries that use the bicycle as transportation. Here it is not uncommon (right in my neighborhood, actually) to see new parents riding by with their infant strapped into their carseat that is strapped into their bakfiets (or trailer).

To the OP: based on my experiences with many of the Europeans in the area, it's totally feasible to live car-free, even in freezing conditions, even with a newborn. They don't seem to think much of it. I was told more than once, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes and poor preparation"--or something to that effect.




It is not weather conditions that are the main concern. The law in Georgia is a little convoluted about it, but basically says that you cannot transport a child under one year of age in a trailer or sling, but you can if you follow all of the manufacturers' directions. There is a good reason to discourage it: it's not safe for children of that age. Even if you think you know what you're doing, it's not advisable.

I'm just going to throw this out there: sometimes the law is stupid.

This particular post bellow illustrates exactly why I sometimes consider myself lucky to be living in an area that has a high population of people from countries that use the bicycle as transportation. Here it is not uncommon (right in my neighborhood, actually) to see new parents riding by with their infant strapped into their carseat that is strapped into their bakfiets (or trailer).

To the OP: based on my experiences with many of the Europeans in the area, it's totally feasible to live car-free, even in freezing conditions, even with a newborn. They don't seem to think much of it. I was told more than once, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes and poor preparation"--or something to that effect.

I don't know about the US, but the law in Canada is that under 18years must wear helmets. All helmets require that a child can hold their head up with the helmet on, this includes use of trailers according to local health department when I asked. I haven't seen an infant that can keep their head up with a helmet on.

...and while they are strapped to their carseats in their bakfiets or trailers, the infants are most certainly not wearing helmets. Yes, there is a helmet law here for kids 18 and under.



I don't know about the US, but the law in Canada is that under 18years must wear helmets. All helmets require that a child can hold their head up with the helmet on, this includes use of trailers according to local health department when I asked. I haven't seen an infant that can keep their head up with a helmet on.

Helmet ordinances in the US vary by city or state. Helmets are not required at any age in my city. When my daughter was an infant, I walked everywhere with her in a sling under my coat. It kept her warmer than the other options for transport (including being in the car) and kept people from asking to hold her, poking at her, etc. She was a preemie and came home from the hospital weighing less than 5 pounds, so I was a little more cautious with exposure for her than I would have been with a full term, otherwise healthy infant.

For now, hang on to the car till they are older. Then, you can think about selling it.

To the OP: based on my experiences with many of the Europeans in the area, it's totally feasible to live car-free, even in freezing conditions, even with a newborn. They don't seem to think much of it. I was told more than once, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes and poor preparation"--or something to that effect.

Agreed. People think something is impossible, and yet people that have a harder life with less to work with manage the same tasks just fine. Us westerns over think way too many things, and the subject of car ownership and newborns is another fine example of over cautious, materialist nature.

OP: Sell the car unless you are worried some woman that is not your fiance is going to show up to the door tomorrow with a newborn baby and tell to raise it. You will be fine for a good period of time.

Agreed. People think something is impossible, and yet people that have a harder life with less to work with manage the same tasks just fine. Us westerns over think way too many things, and the subject of car ownership and newborns is another fine example of over cautious, materialist nature.

OP: Sell the car unless you are worried some woman that is not your fiance is going to show up to the door tomorrow with a newborn baby and tell to raise it. You will be fine for a good period of time.

+1

...and while they are strapped to their carseats in their bakfiets or trailers, the infants are most certainly not wearing helmets. Yes, there is a helmet law here for kids 18 and under.

They are wearing one here, if they are abiding by the law. In addition to the general helmet law, all infants under one year transported in a trailer or sling must be wearing helmets. (Code Section 40-6-292 if anyone wants to check). Although in reality I've seen maybe one infant close to a year old in a bicycle trailer here, in the last four years.

I don't know about yellowtanktop's Europeans, their location, culture, habits or circumstances, and as I said earlier, obviously there are people who have had babies without cars. I can only speak from experience of here in Georgia, having been car-free and car-light with small children, and of course having raised babies. To OP, carrying a newborn on a bike is not something you want to learn by experimenting, and I can pretty much guarantee that with a late-term wife and then a newborn you'll sometimes wish for the safest and fastest transportation.

I would be of the opinion that if a child is in a rated child seat, strapped into a trailer that a helmet wouldn't be necessary, statistically they are more likely to be killed in an automobile accident. I have worked in an hospital environment in the past, two things I remember to this day...a perfectly healthy baby coming in with it's dead mother, because the baby was properly strapped in to a car seat and the mother wasn't wearing her seat belt, fairly low speed accident, but the mother went through the windshield. Another accident where the baby and the mother were both in pretty bad shape, bad accident, the mother was belted in, baby was in the car seat, but the car seat wasn't properly strapped in and went through the windshield...

I would take my chances with a bicycle trailer car seat combo any day of the week. Caveat: I am making assumption that the routes would be low traffic cycle safe routes.

Aaron :)

I would take my chances with a bicycle trailer car seat combo any day of the week.

Well, you're not likely to go through the bicycles windshield. ;)

Well, you're not likely to go through the bicycles windshield. ;)

Nope, nor generate the G-forces of a typical car accident...

Aaron :)

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:D OP here :D

Well, I am doing it. I am beyond excited to sell my car. I am crediting my decision to live carfree to all of the posters in this thread. Without your suggestions I would still be worried about breaking an arm or carrying a baby that will not (intentionally) exist for another two years. I will have no troubles selling a mint condition 2011 Subaru up here in the Minnesotan winter. My only question now is what should I do with the extra FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS I will have each month!?

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:D OP here :D

Well, I am doing it. I am beyond excited to sell my car. I am crediting my decision to live carfree to all of the posters in this thread. Without your suggestions I would still be worried about breaking an arm or carrying a baby that will not (intentionally) exist for another two years. I will have no troubles selling a mint condition 2011 Subaru up here in the Minnesotan winter. My only question now is what should I do with the extra FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS I will have each month!?

Congratulations...put the extra money in the bank. We just got done rearranging some financial stuff (taxes, etc) and have an additional sum coming in every month, half goes in the 40lk/IRA the other half goes in savings.

Aaron :)