Classic & Vintage - Rudge Whitworth

Hi all

I posted about this yesterday in the introduction section as I'd just joined the site. Someone suggested that I should repost here.
I'm trying to find out the age and some information on an early Rudge Whitworth bike that I've had for many years. It's a communter type bike with 26" wheels and a 28inch frame ( measured from the crank to the saddle post ). It has a very unusual chain with links 3/4 inch long. The gear/brake hub has Sturmy Archer Tricoaster Nottingham England stamped on it with the serial number KC69342. This is controlled by a two speed shift lever on the cross member. I've tried researching on several sites including the Sheldon site for Sturmy Archer gear hubs without success. I'm guessing the bike dates back to the 1920's or 30's it's even been suggested that it maybe an old British Police bike. I'm hopping that someone on this site may be able to identify it for me. I know a photo would be handy but having just joined the site I don't know how to include one with a post.

Thank's Jon

Hey Jon, welcome to the bike junkie enablers forum. ;) I sent you a PM and will be happy to help you get some pictures posted.

Welcome to the forum! That's cool that you have the entire bike, lot's of people to drool over photos and even offer some help from the pool of knowledge. I've only got the frame and fork of a '23 R.W., the rest is going to have to be cobbled together sad to say, but it's a 24" frame so I'm hoping to build something of the order of a Priest Bike out of it.
234688

Really looking forward to seeing this one.

This might be a little bit useful for approximate dating. http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/hanczyc/pdfs/satriggersjuly06.pdf

Raleigh Rudge diagrams with model numbers ... is yours pre-Raleigh?

http://oldroads.com/ra_exp.html

The Quadrant shifter would make it pre 1935ish and pre Raleigh, but still we need pictures.

This sounds really interesting. !

Photos would be great!

Hey Jon, welcome to the bike junkie enablers forum. ;) I sent you a PM and will be happy to help you get some pictures posted.

Thank's for that, unfortunately my pc security wouldn't let me open your PM. If you could briefly explain the procedure here, I'll give it a try.

Jon

Hi, Jon. In the post a quick reply; on the above tool bar, right click on the 3rd icon from the right "lil square picture" It will open a window for you browse for photo's you have hosted on-line or on your computer. Select a photo by double clicking, there are some size limitations. Good luck.

I've just sent photogravity some pictures that he's going to post on the forum for me.

Jon

Late last evening after I had gone to sleep happy traveller posted me a number of pictures which follow. This bike is going to get a LOT of buzz here as it is beautiful!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6764917503_862ba809e9_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764917503/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764917503/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7141/6764917249_eac2dd5509_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764917249/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764917249/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7153/6764916999_a137e7dd00_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764916999/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764916999/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6764916761_5d213b6256_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764916761/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764916761/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6764914573_e0a2649608_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764914573/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764914573/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6764913975_2b04df076c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764913975/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 6 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764913975/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7024/6764910811_d6528f138f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764910811/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 7 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764910811/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6764909729_c133593831_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764909729/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764909729/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6764908907_b3e4790e16_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764908907/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 9 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764908907/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6764908241_31f1544f59_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764908241/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 10 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764908241/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7018/6764906563_d7dd200589_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764906563/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764906563/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6764903353_42f409eb6a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764903353/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 12 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764903353/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6764902845_f5f03eb4a7_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764902845/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 13 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764902845/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6764901711_859179a07d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764901711/)
Rudge-Whitworth - 14 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/threefamilyalbum/6764901711/) by Sallad Rialb (http://www.flickr.com/people/threefamilyalbum/), on Flickr

happy traveller, now we have some pictures I think we can narrow the dates of the bicycle from the early 1920s to the mid 1930s. I'm basing part of that statement on the supposition that the KC in the serial number on the hub as indicative of the Sturmey-Archer KC Tri-Coaster (http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/index.php?page=history-detail&id=28) hub which was manufactured between 1922 and 1936. In your email message you mentioned the hub is not shifting properly, but only seems to want to shift in 2 of the 3 gears it has. That issue could be as simple as being out of adjustment or there may be damage. I'm not familiar with the intricacies of adjusting quadrant shifters but someone here surely will chime in to help out.

Given the age of this machine, it is in wonderful condition atmo.

Just a stunning bike. The bars and brakes setup is cool beyond words.

The crankset is also really interesting. It looks to be cotterless, not unlike the early CCM cranks with the triangular spindle and the threaded axle bolts.

Wow, I dont usually go crazy about english 3 speeds, but the more i see them, the more i realize that these early ones are pretty badass. Awsome color and great overall feel of coolness.

Just a stunning bike. The bars and brakes setup is cool beyond words.

The crankset is also really interesting. It looks to be cotterless, not unlike the early CCM cranks with the triangular spindle and the threaded axle bolts.

clubman, you are spot on. This bicycle is incredibly cool and beyond what I expected. When I opened happy traveller's email with the pictures attached, I literally gasped. Something this well preserved is a rarity.

I'm glad you pointed out the unique chainset as I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it. Do you know what that style crank was called or at least have a web page you can send me to that has additional information on the mechanics of this style chainset?

Intersting, yours shares the same round headbadge as my '23 but yours appears to be a fillet brazed or internal lugged frame where mine is constructed with external straight cut lugs
234994
Also I noticed your fork crown appears a bit different
234995

Not sure what this means , I'd guess that yours is from a different period of manufacture, perhaps later as the Tri-coaster hub suggests. I'd be interested to learn when Rudge produced the fillet brazed or internal lugged frames and on which models?

Wow, I dont usually go crazy about english 3 speeds, but the more i see them, the more i realize that these early ones are pretty badass. Awsome color and great overall feel of coolness.

eric, I'm with you! :) The go-fast crowd underestimates the coolness of these machines and are largely dismissive of them. That's ok to me though, because it artificially suppresses the value of these wonderful bicycles thereby making them more accessible to collectors like me who see them for what they truly are: bicycles that are elegant in their simplicity.

Cool bike, and in a larger size no less.

Wow. - That is really some bike - so many exotic appointments. The brazed or internally brazed frame, the brakes, the unusual non-cottered crank, and most of all that wonderful color! (I have a hard time imagining that a British Police bike came in any other color than black, but perhaps we have a Brit member who could confirm or refute that. )

I thought the two-speed quadrant shifter might narrow the date range some but it seems SA offered a two-speed hub into the 1930's.
Possibly that 3/4" chain could be more telling: There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here, so I'd expect someone to weigh-in on that.

Wow. - That is really some bike - so many exotic appointments. The brazed or internally brazed frame, the brakes, the unusual non-cottered crank, and most of all that wonderful color! (I have a hard time imagining that a British Police bike came in any other color than black, but perhaps we have a Brit member who could confirm or refute that. )

I thought the two-speed quadrant shifter might narrow the date range some but it seems SA offered a two-speed hub into the 1930's.
Possibly that 3/4" chain could be more telling: There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here, so I'd expect someone to weigh-in on that.

Indeed a very special machine, isn't it? One small correction, though: it is a Tri-Coaster, which indicitates it is a three speed hub.

Indeed a very special machine, isn't it? One small correction, though: it is a Tri-Coaster, which indicitates it is a three speed hub.

Thanks Photogravity - I am sure you are correct about the Tri-coaster hub.


....This is controlled by a two speed shift lever on the cross member. ....

Do you know if or when SA made a two-notched quadrant shifter?

Does anyone know what that little knob is for at the right front of the top tube?

Does anyone know what that little knob is for at the right front of the top tube?

I was wondering the same thing myself. One other thing I'm trying to figure out is whether those are handlebar grips or the shape of the bar. I'm guessing they're grips.

Very intersting bike, I'm tuning in to see more of this story unfold.

Almost speechless... but obviously not quite :)

Fabulous! Just look at the rake, the whole machine looks raked. And that single brake lever... OMG :twitchy: :thumb: :thumb: The colour!! I definitely want one!

Cool bike, and in a larger size no less.

The supposition that it could well be an ex-police bike is entirely justified. At the time that bike was made there was a minimum height requirement for policemen, think it was 6 foot, and as a result all ex-police bikes from that period are large framed. That was the case right up to the 60s, I believe. I'm sure someone here is far more knowledgable on this...

Do you know if or when SA made a two-notched quadrant shifter?

They made one to go with their 2-speed fixed hub, the T/TF, from 1933. A Quadrant type for the top tube. There was also another for the one of the K series that I think was a 2-speed. It was a nickel plated barrel and fitted on the handlebars. Like this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230730225703?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_631wt_1398

Might as well post this pic of this fabulous machine's little, younger but rather less stunning sister, my wife's 1930s Rudge Whitworth:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6768792705_7e97acc68c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6768792705/)
IMG_5166 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6768792705/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

Same badge:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6768792491_822efd9f11.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6768792491/)
IMG_5139 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983673@N02/6768792491/) by Dawes-man (http://www.flickr.com/people/22983673@N02/), on Flickr

I converted it from a single speed to a 3-speed Sturmey Archer to make it more useful in the hilly part of Tokyo where we live - naturally, I'm keeping the original hub and spokes safe :)

[QUOTE][Do you know if or when SA made a two-notched quadrant shifter?/QUOTE]

I fairly certian all the Quadrants are "two-notched", High gear is obtained by letting the knob forward to the stop, middle notch is "normal" rear notch is low.

Very intersting bike, I'm tuning in to see more of this story unfold.

I'm hoping that Jon will check back in on the thread. Since he sent the pictures to my email address, I sent him a message letting him know that they had been posted and to revisit the thread. Hopefully, we'll get a visit soon!

Almost speechless... but obviously not quite :)

Fabulous! Just look at the rake, the whole machine looks raked. And that single brake lever... OMG :twitchy: :thumb: :thumb: The colour!! I definitely want one!

Like I told clubman, this is an incredibly cool bike... I'm dying to get more information on this machine.


The supposition that it could well be an ex-police bike is entirely justified. At the time that bike was made there was a minimum height requirement for policemen, think it was 6 foot, and as a result all ex-police bikes from that period are large framed. That was the case right up to the 60s, I believe. I'm sure someone here is far more knowledgable on this...

I'd be interested to know about the ex-police bike angle myself. Hopefully someone will chime in as you mentioned.

Might as well post this pic of this fabulous machine's little, younger but rather less stunning sister, my wife's 1930s Rudge Whitworth:

I converted it from a single speed to a 3-speed Sturmey Archer to make it more useful in the hilly part of Tokyo where we live - naturally, I'm keeping the original hub and spokes safe :)

Your wife's Rudge is quite fetching! I like the fact that you made it more useful by converting it to a 3-speed hub. Has it been refinished at some point in its life?

Very interesting pre Raleigh Rudge and the name of the crank maker escapes me right now... have only seen these one some very early CCM bicycles and by very early, I mean late teens when many bicycle were still fitted with wooden rims.

The name of the spindle will come to me eventually.

Brazed frames came about due to wartime shortages as they used less material than a lugged frame but are more labour / time intensive to build and a brazed frame like this might also indicate it was a custom build for an person of above average height.

It is a gorgeous machine.

That is one sexy beast!

Your wife's Rudge is quite fetching! I like the fact that you made it more useful by converting it to a 3-speed hub. Has it been refinished at some point in its life?

You have excellent taste :) It's kind of rough, having been hand-painted by the PO, but I like it very much. It certainly works well and apart from the SA hub and bell all the parts are original. I can't remember, off hand, if I replaced the brake cables and I doubt the tyres are original...


Come to think of it, the PO was on C&V but seems to have sunk from view. My wife bought it from viscount when we visited him in Gloucester, in the UK back in 2008.

Very interesting pre Raleigh Rudge and the name of the crank maker escapes me right now... have only seen these one some very early CCM bicycles and by very early, I mean late teens when many bicycle were still fitted with wooden rims.

The name of the spindle will come to me eventually.

Brazed frames came about due to wartime shortages as they used less material than a lugged frame but are more labour / time intensive to build and a brazed frame like this might also indicate it was a custom build for an person of above average height.

It is a gorgeous machine.

You don't know what I'd give to see this bike in person. It is more unique than I thought it would be when Jon first posted about the bicycle.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=rudge%20bike&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CGIQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRudge-Whitworth&ei=PA8jT6mWEqTX0QH-rJnWCA&usg=AFQjCNFkaFUGcJe_ORnT5ofM4fsa1G04KA

I have two Rudges. One is a mid "60s and the other an early "50s. Rough but restoreable!

Thank you all for your comments and especially photogravity for posting the pictures on my behalf. I've owned the bike for about thirty years, I aquired it from a friend who was clearing out an old shed, the only part missing was the chain. Being such an unusual size chain made it very difficult to track one down, I eventually located a chain for it at an automotive swap meet several years latter. I've always been curious as to it's age but thanks to the knowledge of members of this forum we can assume it to be 1920's to early 30's. The bike rides very well and now I know that it's something rare and unusual I'll make sure it's well looked after.

Regards Jon

Beautiful cycle.

It has a very unusual chain with links 3/4 inch long.

Could it be a 3/16" chain, like this one?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-BLOCK-CHAIN-NIP-1-x3-16-/260946309326?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item3cc19cb0ce#ht_500wt_1413

Great to see these photos. I'm rebuilding a 1935 Rudge Whitworth at present, in fact I love them so much I'm going to start a collection. I shotblasted and resprayed mine semi-gloss black...wish I hadn't now after seeing this colour! But that can be another project.

The red hand of Ulster chainwheels are fantastic, can't believe that they are hidden behind a chain guard normally.