Classic & Vintage - Do you know this bike? Or have any information about it?

Hi people!

A collector told me that this bike is a PX-10, but this weekend I was talking to a restorer, and he told me that the bike is not a PX-10... Is a french Metropole (?!)... And probably 40-50's... I had never heard about this brand, and I just could not find a single pic of Metropole bikes on the net.

It's history is... My husband, when he had 14yo (today he's 51), went with his father to buy a bike...And his father bought this one, it was oldie on that time!
He used it a lot and restored it as a kid could do, and after a long time he bought a MTB...

We became night bikers here in SP, and São Paulo streets are not the best for this kind of bike, so we use MTBs at night... there are a lot of holes in the asphalt :lol:

When we got married he left his bike at his mother's home, and it remained there till this year when his mother told him that she'd throw it away. I went there, took it home and now I'm trying to discover how to recover this beautyful bike back to life...

I "talked" to people at PX-10 thread and they told me that it really is not a PX-10. Well, I should believe in my restorer friend... :D

Do you know it? Does anyone have any information about it? colors? stickers?

Here go some pictures before it's first bath...

And now you can see that the bike is blue and not "dust brown"...:D

Oh, yes!!! Thank you all for you kind attention!

It looks to be a very interesting bicycle! I would like a better photo of the brazed on mount next to the shifter. Also, photos showing the brake calipers, brake levers, and crank; and the dropouts.

Do the brakes say "STRATA" and "MADE IN ENGLAND" on them? I believe those brakes date to the late 40's and lead me to wonder if the bike might be English rather than French.

The derailleur is not original, and will not help identify the bike.

Hi rhm!!!
Thank you for your help! I'll take some more photos, but I have some other here..
Yes, brake says STRATA and Made in England. And so the handlebars.
Here goes some photos before "the" bath...

These are after "the" bath...
Well, now It's raining and I just cant take other pics...
But tomorrow morning I'll do it :D

I know that my husb, when he was a kid, and his father changed some pieces... Even the saddle is not original, that's why I didn't post any picture of it.

I want to make this bike as original as possible... that's why I'm asking about its possible colors... I found a bed of light blue, below its current dark blue... and some green dots... But I still want it to be usable... Not only a "just to see" bike.

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Interesting! Well, the rear brake is not a Strata; and nor are the brake levers.

I wish there was an easy way for you to check the threading of the head set and the bottom bracket, because that would tell us something about country of origin. But I can't think of any way for you to check that.

I love that 4 speed freewheel on there, probably made by J.moyne. I have one myself but i had no idea how old it could be. Really nice bike by the way.

Based on the lugs and crank the bike looks to be early 60's French or English with the saphire blue color my guess would French

The stem and handlebar are also consistent with a late 50's / early 60's date.

Nice! Obrigado for posting the pictures.

GB bars and stem. Would that rule out French? Or did GB make French diameter stems, too?

de nada, non-fixie!
tomorrow morning I'll take some more pics... as all of you are talking, probably it has a french frame... with gb pieces...
the biggest problem will be to find out the original colors used on it and its pattern of painting... hard work for a long time :lol:

Nice oldie, I'd also guess "French" only because it just has that vibe, but it's possible it might be British...I wonder if the outer dimensions of the main tubes can be a good clue for a bike of this age (?). If our resident experts say they are, then can you measure those tubes with an accurate Metric caliper?

Hi people!!!
Here I am again, sunny day in rainy summer from São Paulo, BR...
As you told me I took some extra pictures... As a matter of fact, I asked husb to do that... :lol: :lol: :lol:

the upper tube of the frame is 26.5 and front and saddle tubes are 28, as you can see by these pics...
extra pics from handlebar and its acessories...
and one only from de frame...

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given that you have 2 tubes that measure 28mm and the strong possibility that the top tube is actually 26mm (maybe a little thicker due to paint) these are metric tubing dimensions: it's 99% certain that it's not British. So probably French. Very slightly possible it could be from another Continental country (Belgium, Spain, Switzerland) but I wouldn't bet on that. Also since you're in Brazil, there's been a bicycle building history in Argentina, but I also doubt this is from there. Metropole is not a brand I've heard of, but probably somebody has...I'd say Norris Lockley might know, maybe we can direct his attention to your pics.

... it's 99% certain that it's not British. So probably French. Very slightly possible it could be from another Continental country (Belgium, Spain, Switzerland) but I wouldn't bet on that. Also since you're in Brazil, there's been a bicycle building history in Argentina, but I also doubt this is from there.

I agree with all of that, but (just out of curiosity) why do you doubt it's from Argentina? I haven't seen enough Argentine bikes to comment on that.

de nada, non-fixie!
tomorrow morning I'll take some more pics... as all of you are talking, probably it has a french frame... with gb pieces...
the biggest problem will be to find out the original colors used on it and its pattern of painting... hard work for a long time :lol:

Lovely bike, I'm really glad you're saving it. Sorry I can't be of much help myself, but if there's a community to look to for knowledge, assistance and encouraging words, it's this one.

What your pictures did do for me, especially the tiling in the background, is remind me of the short time I lived in Brooklin. A actually re-did my 1974 school bus run last night on Google Streetview: Rua Michigan -> Av Santo Amaro -> Av Murumbi -> Av Giovanni Gronchi. Brought back lots of great memories. Thanks for that!

Anyway, back to bikes ...

I agree with all of that, but (just out of curiosity) why do you doubt it's from Argentina? I haven't seen enough Argentine bikes to comment on that.

It's all guesswork, but my impression is that most of the Argentine bicycle industry is/was heavily influenced by Italy (and specifically all the Italian immigrants to Argentina). So, I doubt they'd have used metric tubing or French components, but take this for the guess it is.

Metropole is not a brand I've heard of, but probably somebody has...I'd say Norris Lockley might know, maybe we can direct his attention to your pics.

Unworthy1, thank you! Now, how we can get Norris, pls? Could you ask him to see these pics? And if he knows something?

Here, a friend told me about that Metropole, and showed me a copy of its front badge, I copy you here... I must tell that he's a bike collector, and he has more than 1000 of these front badges, and he has only a copy from it.

As a matter of fact it's very difficult to find any Metropole bike pic, I just saw 2 pics... the first one very old and not well maintained posted in another thread by Auchencrow (when I first tought it could be a PX-10), and the other one is the Acatene, made on early 20's without chain.

The link posted today in that thread by Auchencrow is: http://threespeedgallery.blogspot.com/
And as you can see, the person who posted it could't find any information about it too... :(

Going directly to the Metropole bike is:
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That's pretty convincing, I think. The two frames seem to have the same lugs, the same pump pegs, and the same single shifter boss. I'm sure of these things were doubtless available to many manufacturers, but here we have the same combination on two different bikes. Metropole seems like a pretty good guess for now.

As for the bike's date, the single shifter boss is typical of the 1950's, possibly a little earlier or a little later.

There are 2 vintage Metropole bicycle items on Ebay right now. It might be french after all.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Metropole-Bicycle-Advertising-Canvas-Poster-Art-/160626131552

http://www.amazon.com/Womens-Cycles-Metropole-Cycling-Bicycle/dp/B0014RRUDS

Here is a Wiki excerpt from the Raphael Geminiani page:

He received a professional contract in 1946 for the Métropole team from its manager, Romain Bellenger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romain_Bellenger), and in 1947 rode his first Tour de France.

Find some information on the French Metropole bicycle company and you probably find your mfg.

Here is an early Acetene Metropole from 1894. The address of the company is included in the notes. The bike is about mid page down.

http://www.stichtingdeoudetweewieler.nl/fietsenengels.html

A actually re-did my 1974 school bus run last night on Google Streetview: Rua Michigan -> Av Santo Amaro -> Av Murumbi -> Av Giovanni Gronchi. Brought back lots of great memories. Thanks for that!


OMG non-fixie!!! Since 1974 til now things changed a lot on that way!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm glad for the happy memories! When we go riding at night, sometimes we just go around there... Next time I'll remember of you!
I don't know there where you live, but here we go trough the city by night in a group twice a week, and our group sometimes has 80 bikers... It's funny...
When you come to Brazil, you are invited to come with us! :thumb:

Looking at the headbadge, is that "Paris" over and "St. Etienne" under the Metropole word?

Seypat, thank you for these information! Anything is very userful!

Yes, seypat! The headbadge says Paris over and St Etienne under the Metropole word. Exactly that...

Now I need to find the pump that fits on the frame and start a quest to all the parts and acessories :thumb:

OMG non-fixie!!! Since 1974 til now things changed a lot on that way!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm glad for the happy memories! When we go riding at night, sometimes we just go around there... Next time I'll remember of you!
I don't know there where you live, but here we go trough the city by night in a group twice a week, and our group sometimes has 80 bikers... It's funny...
When you come to Brazil, you are invited to come with us! :thumb:

Thank you for the invitation, seems like a cool ride! I live in Holland these days and there are no cities of that magnitude around here. It might be a while before I'm back in São Paulo ... :(

Unworthy1, thank you! Now, how we can get Norris, pls? Could you ask him to see these pics? And if he knows something?
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Norris is an occasional poster here, I'll try to PM him and direct him to this thread. If that doesn't work, he is a more frequent presence on the CR list, and there are other French experts there, too.
But, for now I'm with RHM: it sure seems like this has strong resemblance to the other Metropole pics, and the headbadge looks like it could match the holes in the head-tube, as well...I vote that it's a Metropole (until outvoted).

the CR list is a Google Group bulletin board hosted by Classic Rendezvous (www.classicrendezvous.com)
if you subscribe, I recommend having it sent in the "Digest" form, otherwise you get WAY too many emails!

Thank you again, unworthy1!

Sorry for my question, but... what does CR mean?

Do the shifters say Huret on the collar? Had a very similar looking set on my mid 70s Raleigh. Would fit he timing in terms of when your husband got it and did the partial drivetrain update.

I think CR stands for Campy Record. (NOT APPARENTLY)

Thank you again, unworthy1!

Sorry for my question, but... what does CR mean?

CR significa Classic Rendezvous, é um grupo dedicado de coletores e de entusiastas da bicicleta do vintage.

-Carlos

Sua bicicleta é muito similar a meu Payan, uma bicicleta francesa. Eja esta ligação:
http://s343.photobucket.com/albums/o476/chileros_bikes/Payan/

-Carlos

I just did a careful comparison between my Payan and Juri's bike. While there are certain similarities I do not think the unknown bicycle is a Payan, the builder merely used similar lugs.

Juri, você pode querer afixar sua pergunta a este fórum em Portugal. Parece-me que o português importou muitas bicicletas britânicas ou peças da bicicleta britânicas.
http://forum.amigosdaspasteleiras.com/

-Carlos

May I put this thread forward as an entry into any 'Best Thread Ever' competition that might be held in the years to come?

This is fantastic! We have an obscure survivor bicycle presented to us by a Junior Member in a country not often represented here, we are shown great photos taken in the early stages of the machine's restoration, more knowledgable members sharing their thoughts and bringing their experience to bear on figuring out what the machine might be, reminiscences of streets in the OP's (that's you, juri :) - the Original Poster) city, offers of hospitality, links to other interesting site and even some Portuguese in the thread.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Everybody. For me, this is one of the main delights of C&V. :thumb:

Lovely bike, juri. I shall be following this thread all the way.

Realmente parecidas... com algumas diferenças... :lol::lol::lol:

Chilero, não pude retornar a sua MP porque eu ainda não tenho mensagens o suficiente para responder... Preciso de 50 mensagens.
Muito obrigada, tentarei esses contatos que você sugere!

I just did a careful comparison between my Payan and Juri's bike. While there are certain similarities I do not think the unknown bicycle is a Payan, the builder merely used similar lugs.

-Carlos

Chilero, your bike is wonderful! Full of details... really reaaly beautiful... Do you intend to paint it or keep it as is? Thank you for all of you for all directions.

May I put this thread forward as an entry into any 'Best Thread Ever' competition that might be held in the years to come?



Hi Dawes-man!
I´m so glad that you are enjoying this thread! And here goes the same invitation for you... when you come to Brazil, come to a night ride with us!:thumb:

Sure you can put the thread forward, be my guest!;)

I promise to keep you informed of all we discover in this quest.:D

Chilero, your bike is wonderful! Full of details... really reaaly beautiful... Do you intend to paint it or keep it as is? Thank you for all of you for all directions.

I'm keeping it exactly as it is. Let us know if/when you are certain of the origins of your bike. I have another interesting bike about which I know very little, perhaps you can help. The brand is "Garota"... but not "de Ipanema" :)
The previous owner inherited the bicycle in 1955 from a Portuguese gentleman in New York. I have enquired from a few acquaintances in Portugal, including with the Amigos das Pasteleiras but the consensus is that it is not a Portuguese brand. I also received an email from a Brazilian collector and he says he's never heard of it. When i was in Brazil a couple of years ago I saw an exhibit at an airport, I think it was in Manaus, titled "100 years of bicycles" or bicycling, I don't remember. There were all kinds of bicycles and plenty of representation by Caloi (Brazil's national brand, for those who don't know).
It is interesting that it has a mix of French components, and it has a Portuguese saddle. Here is the link to photographs of my Garota:
http://s343.photobucket.com/albums/o476/chileros_bikes/Garota/

Chilero,
I want to thank you, I sent a message to those people you told me are colectors. Now let's wait... :D

This is a cool headbadge! It points to the sheer functionality of this bike: to travel quickly to the real joys in a man's life. They are there! Waiting for you! Can't be anything else than Brazilian.

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o476/chileros_bikes/Garota/P1070524.jpg

I forgot to mention....
the frame is a large one, 60 cm!!! I measured it yesterday

Very nice bicycle, extremely elegant. Glad you're restoring it!

Hi Juri,

I'm a Newbie too and may well be way out of my depth. I only have two vintage bikes. Both are Claud Butlers, One an Ambassador from the mid 50s. I had to study the catalogues to identify the exact model, thankfully the Claud Butler decals were still visible, and a clear frame number on the bottom bracket. However the width of your tube where the badge was once riveted is the same as my Ambassador. The top of your forks are identical. The lug design is the same as the 1956 catalogue "Apirant" of "Cavalier" model.
I draw your attention to the centre detail No(4) lug design:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/CBcats/Cat_56/YellowCat/FrameFeatures.jpg

from this catalogue:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/CBcats/Cat_56/CB1956_Cat.htm

The only big difference is the cable clip upon my bottom bracket a single open tube not the two loops as detailed in the french bike above. I have to agree that the French lugs at this point are also identical to my CB, so its quite possible CB's lugs weren't as unique as he claims. I wonder if all CB's have a grease nipple on the bottom bracket? If so that might sort the question?

The options for parts are explained for each model. The only part I recognise as being original to your frame is the CB headset, which again is identical to mine. Most of your other parts are 20 years younger ( I cant see the pedals), as are mine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/byronoconnor/sets/72157629089937477/


Hope this doesn't set the cat among the pidgeons with the senior members, I'm here to learn.

I think dpuboc has nailed it. I know very little about Claud Butler but my first thought when I saw juri's bike had GB bars and stem was that it must be English. I don't think I've heard of bikes on the Continent having English components, just the other way round.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/byronoconnor/6789735847/in/set-72157629089937477/
This is the clip I mean note also the oil nipple cap..

You got me searching and despite the many variants to each Claud Butler within a model layout , cycles often being made to order from many variables, I found a Cavalier just sold on ebay and the seat stem lug is different.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180792307997?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&clk_rvr_id=311534901545#ht_800wt_1416

My Ambassador is different again. So my last English hope is an Aspirant.

it wouldn't jibe with what appears to be metric main tubes (assuming those measurements were as accurate as they appeared). The CB headbadge also takes 2 vertically placed rivets, maybe the OP can measure between the holes. The real clue will be to determine the BB threading especially the fixed cup behind that Stronglight (FR) crank.
The OP posted her own (nicely worded) inquiry to the CR list after I'd done one on her behalf...she got zero (public) replies...kind of a shame given the huge brain trust of that list :(
EDIT: No I spoke too soon, I just got my Digest of the CR list and she has one public reply, but he asks for more "dimension/threading" info like I have done, too...

Someone mentioned that the derailleur wasn't orginal. What strikes me is that it appears to be a primitive slant-parallelogram derailleur. That means an early Suntour, or perhaps an inexpensive one.

Hi people! Hope you've got a great weekend riding or restoring your bikes :)

Unworthy1 thank you for your kind words... :thumb:

Dpuboc it's really impressive the similarity from the lug design 4. The other parts were replaced by my husb when he was 14... without any technic... for sure... Kids just want to ride, and as fast as possible...:lol::lol::lol:

Dawes-man, probably that's why you see GB parts, some french parts and even brazilian parts. Here in Brazil there is a brazilian brand: CALOI. And Caloi had a Caloi 10 very similar to these bikes, not equal I must say. So some replacement parts were bought from this brand, such as back derailleur... and the bike became an obscure mistery... :)

About the rivets I asked to husb to go there and measure it with the caliber... Well, he went there and took another pic for us... :lol: ;)
As you can see he tried to take this pic from the center of the hole, and it measures 40 mm. Does it help?


http://dc376.4shared.com/img/YQT1c4mW/s7/P3001120002.jpg

Dear friends...

I want to share some good new information with you... :D
We sent bike to sandblasting today...It just arrived right now! :thumb:

1st. We found serial number on it! 118 8 and above it there is the number 81... And only 118 to the fork
2nd. under the blue paint coat there is a mark RGF within an oval.
3rd. its original color was "green lettuce", you can see a little bit of this green on the lung detail...