Classic & Vintage - Is Thailand the next Japan for vintage velo, or what?

In terms of vintage velo obsessions and eBay.

I've had about a half dozen eBay sales to Thailand in the past year, including one that just ended tonight. That's more sales to Thailand than to Japan. Always for quality vintage parts that don't go cheap, often French. Always to bidders with a history of buying *nice* stuff (stuff I'd love to buy myself... and sometimes way out of my own price range). Always paid promptly. No complaints. Does Thailand have a burgeoning vintage bike obsession that I've been unaware of?

I have friend who was over there recently. He said there are fixed gears all over Bangkok, but they mostly seem to be a style statement. They don't have clips or toe straps so everyone is riding around in slow motion.

Don't know but I too have sold an number of vintage bit to buyers in Thailand. As long as they keep funding my addiction, I am all for it!

I have friend who was over there recently. He said there are fixed gears all over Bangkok, but they mostly seem to be a style statement. They don't have clips or toe straps so everyone is riding around in slow motion.

Bangkok has been the destination of most of my Thailand sales, but the buyers buying my stuff are also buying tons of vintage French and Swiss stuff from eBay.fr, like TA/Stronglight/Normandy/Edco/Maxicar/Simplex/Huret/etc. Not your typical fixie fixin's.

Same here - all of sudden, this year sales to Thailand went through the roof. Nice folks.

thailand has a lot of farang.

Could be - but I had to canx two of my four sales there because of repeated requests to lower the Customs values on the forms. Legal issues aside, I wasn't hanging my ass out there on the insurance side of things if the item got lost, so I sold to the next highest bidder in those two cases.

And funny enough, one of those guys left me a neutral feedback - which he wasn't supposed to be able to do. Sigh...

DD

I have a buddy who has been teaching in Thailand for the past 2 years, and is the best bike mechanic I’ve known. He is generally pretty negative about the place, but expresses that Cambodia may be the best undiscovered touring country in Asia. If anyone has any specific questions about Thailand, I’d pass the question along. Although, he is intentionally out in Thailand countryside so may not be up on the metropolitan trends.

I have friend who was over there recently. He said there are fixed gears all over Bangkok, but they mostly seem to be a style statement. They don't have clips or toe straps so everyone is riding around in slow motion.

[off topic]You don't need clips or toe straps to go fast[/off topic]

[off topic]You don't need clips or toe straps to go fast[/off topic]
No you don't, but the congestion pretty rules out the practicality of clipping in or strapping in. It's too hot to go fast there, anyway.

Thailand is a good place to have a bike, but not one of those smooth road, 100-mile solo ride, take it for granted, places.

I've been there twice. That society has about a hundred layers of stuff I'll never understand. China is simple by comparison.

As far as the bikes I saw there, well, there's Chinese bikes and there's the other bikes. If you have a good bike, the internet is the best friend you have. The choice between paying $125 for a $75 crankset vs. putting a nice bike in the scrap heap is an easy one for those owners.

Perhaps the niche market for French bike stuff is like the Taiwan niche market for Campy. Dedicated, loyal, and enthusiastic. When I sell C&V parts overseas, I always invite them to BF C&V. It would be way cool to have those folks on the forum.

Anyone know of any good stores/markets for vintage bikes in Thailand? I've been to the "Vespa" market, but it only had a couple sellers of bike parts. I'll be back there in a couple weeks...

To those have sold to Thailand recently, by what method are you shipping? The USPS Priority Int'l Small Flat Rate box is a good deal, but when something won't quite fit it seems the price goes from $16.95 to almost $40 (neither with insurance or tracking).

It's sr70guy's fault, he moved there last year...

The Thai MTB forum often has some really nice vintage Zunows up for sale. i haven't had any luck getting the sellers to talk to me though.

To those have sold to Thailand recently, by what method are you shipping? The USPS Priority Int'l Small Flat Rate box is a good deal, but when something won't quite fit it seems the price goes from $16.95 to almost $40 (neither with insurance or tracking).

I was wondering the same thing. If you want to be able to track something, the price goes through the roof, unless there's an option I don't know about. I got burned a while back on an item that 'was never received'. Maybe it wasn't; I'll never know, but you can guess who Ebay/Paypal sided with. I don't do a lot of selling and when I do I usually say domestic only. But it would be nice to know if there is a reasonable option for trackable overseas shipments.

twiddling thumbs until Freek posts a thoughtful essay on bike culture in bangkok :).

U even dare to send there?? u are brave man. Some asian countries is a risk because u never know if the stuff arrived to destination then ebay gets you big time, u lose the item and the money. Unless is japan i dont send to asia, the same with some south american countries.

U even dare to send there?? u are brave man. Some asian countries is a risk because u never know if the stuff arrived to destination then ebay gets you big time, u lose the item and the money. Unless is japan i dont send to asia, the same with some south american countries.

I haven't had a problem so far and have been happy with my dealings with Asian bidders. Never a deadbeat bidder. By default, I state that I only ship within CONTUS so that I can use my discretion later when a bidder from a distant land ignores that restriction. This gives me a legitimate opt-out of the transaction if I check into the bidder and see that he has poor (or insufficient) feedback. I always include insurance on my shipping quotes, so if the item never arrives, there is some recourse for me as a seller. But so far, in 13 years of selling on eBay and 550+ feedback, I've only had two bidders claim they never recieved their stuff-- and both times it was for cheap (<$20) items, so no big losses for me. Knock on wood...

If you have a fixed gear you damned well better or you can't stop.

[off topic]You don't need clips or toe straps to go fast[/off topic]

If you have a fixed gear you damned well better have clips or you can't stop.

If you have a fixed gear you damned well better have clips or you can't stop.

No. Fixed gear bikes and brakes are not mutually exclusive. I have a friend that rides fixed with BMX platforms with no retention and puts about 17k miles a year on various bikes.

In terms of vintage velo obsessions and eBay.

I've had about a half dozen eBay sales to Thailand in the past year, including one that just ended tonight. That's more sales to Thailand than to Japan. Always for quality vintage parts that don't go cheap, often French. Always to bidders with a history of buying *nice* stuff (stuff I'd love to buy myself... and sometimes way out of my own price range). Always paid promptly. No complaints. Does Thailand have a burgeoning vintage bike obsession that I've been unaware of?

Yes.

twiddling thumbs until Freek posts a thoughtful essay on bike culture in bangkok :).

OK, missed this thread until Marty pointed it out to me to me only minutes ago. Tomorrow (hopefully) I'll give all of ya a well thought out essay about the Thai classic and vintage bike culturre!

thinking that fixed gear = no brakes is like thinking road bike = tubular tires. it's an outdated and ignorant idea.

...carry on.

OK, missed this thread until Marty pointed it out to me to me only minutes ago. Tomorrow (hopefully) I'll give all of ya a well thought out essay about the Thai classic and vintage bike culturre!

Be really interested to read that, Freek. I was on a tour of Thailand in November, my first trip. What an amazing country and really wonderful people. My son married his Thai girlfriend so we got to do more than the usual "tourist trail" - stayed in Bangkok, Udon Thani, Nong Khai and Phuket, (the rest of the country was unfortunately still quite flooded). We did get to see a lot of the country though and in different reasons. Naturally, in a country I'd never visited before, I was on the look out for bicycles as well as visiting temples, having an elephant ride and all the other stuff.

The only racing bikes I saw were two modern American bikes, a Specialized and a Cannondale, being ridden very fast by two riders racing each other on a road parallel to the main highway from the airport into Bangkok city. Also at Udon Thani in the night market I saw two really "blinged up" custom straight bar fixies - full high dollar hipsters - really quite impressive but not C&V and their owners didn't ride them while I was there, just leaned on them stylishly while they smoked and checked out all the pretty young ladies. A pretty cool fashion accessory for some seriously cool looking dudes!

The vast majority of bikes and there were many, were strong little utility bikes with 15" to 18" frames and 20" or 24" wheels, many with sloping double down tubes (poor man's mixte?) rather than horizontal top tubes. These performed serious transport duties, carrying crates of produce, kids to school and so on. I surmised that the small bikes might be due to the overall shorter stature of Thai people and the robustness of their mounts a response to the generally rougher roads than we are used to? In any event, the bikes were being ridden, not adored or ignored in garages so I guess it's all good!

In the only bike shops I could find to visit, the entire inventory was also these small, rugged bikes and parts for them. Did I miss a particular area where there are C&V road bikes? I'm sure there must be some out there somewhere!

Sorry for the late reply, but Thailand is not all sabai sabai if you know what I mean!

Let me start with saying that I believe that Thailand has a seriously growing bicycle community, due to the fact that the middle class is growing rapidly. The second thing I have to say is that you won't see any Thai pro riders attacking the cobbles in April soon .. Prevailing seems to be, don't overdo it! The heat has something to do with that of course, but it is a mentality thing most of all.
As a result of that, the highest placed Thai rider in the UCI Asia Tour is in his 30s, and fixie riding, or rather 'trick bike' riding is booming. MTB riding is more popular than road bikes.
Through facebook I am aware of a lot of events, including next weekends Bangkok to Hua Hin ride, about 180 kms. Now, I've seen a lot of reports about Thai road rides on FB, and the sheer amount of pictures put me off a bit. Thats only possible when you stop every 10k, and thats just not the way I ride. (BTW, I rode once with a group of expats in this area, and OMG, I'll never do that again: average 15k/h, and beers at the halfway stop 10 am. Not for me.).

On to classic/vintage content. There is also a growing (I think) 'community'. F.i., I sold a Diamant Thron Veloce bike to a guy in Samut Sakhon, delivered the bike to him, and had a look at his collection. Not bad at all, but obviously, just the right knowledge was lacking here. He didn't speak English, but really needed my advice, that was obvious!

As maybe with all emerging markets, demand is for the famous names: Colnago, Eddy Merckx, Pinarello, and more. And for the famous Japanese NJS stuff. I have (to my obvious pleasure and pride) sold Gazelle, Van Tuyl, Koga FullPro, U. Scanini, Diamant, Sirocco, etc. So its possible to educate people here in the nuances of fine steel bikes!

Here are two pics of an upcoming event that for me at least, show the charm of Thailand (my bike with gilr next door):

http://www.upthai.net/thumbnails/832be5e96b08ed1101e571ea931db1b4.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=8817e347684732fa751135fcfc70ed19)

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/9a3a822e8fee5926348e8d3af512953c.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=96b1a59384b13313c2042e0e26800966)

Sabai Dee Mai, Khun Freek?

I leave tomorrow to the LOS for about 10 days but will be up north of Chiang Mai for most of the time. I plan on going to the Vespa Market in Bangkok one evening but there were only a couple bicycle dealers there when I was there last year.

Any places to score inexpensive tubulars (given that many are made there)?

Yes, Thailand is the new Japan.

And another thing no one has noted yet, they buy vintage Made in England especially Raleigh stuff. They'd buy all those English steel hoops you could muster if only shipping dimensions allowed it. Same also goes for Singapore, Indonesia, and Malaysia.

Sabai Dee Mai, Khun Freek?

I leave tomorrow to the LOS for about 10 days but will be up north of Chiang Mai for most of the time. I plan on going to the Vespa Market in Bangkok one evening but there were only a couple bicycle dealers there when I was there last year.

Any places to score inexpensive tubulars (given that many are made there)?

I have no idea where to get tubulars, never looked for them really. I have been to the Chong Chom market (Surin, on the Cambodian border) a couple of times, and theere are A LOT of bicycles for sale there, old and new, mostly imported from Cambodia, China or Viet Nam I guess. but nothing interesting, although you might get lucky of course.
Also worth mentioning, there is an annual Classic Bike Show in Bangkok. Last years was in March. It seemed to me to very much a kind of university, Art school thing, young fashionable people. And many very nice bikes, that must have cost a bundle. Hairnet helmets and woolen jerseys are popular in those groups, along with Campagnolo and Bianchi caps.

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/d931a214127ed27482802c2497cf58d9.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=768326a11bbca98f3df5c73ceb387715)

Anyone for a Colnago Ferrari (shop is in Korat)? The steep price is fixed!

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/2a01060acf792035e80c53146a56e5b6.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=b5c101b17e40fa193e988213306b1a6d)

I have been living in Bangkok for the past five years. All the time I have been here I have seen lots of people riding old rusty localy made bikes that are just made for transportation. These bikes are for people who either can't afford or don't know how to ride a motorbike.
But in the last year I have started to see a lot more people riding bikes for fun. When my students see me riding they often tell me "fix gear dee gwa" Fixed gear is better. Even though they may never have ridden one. Fixed gear bikes are very much a fashion item for hip teenagers. The simplicity of a fix gear bike also means that it is a fashion item that is more in their reach.
I have also seen the odd person riding a mountain bike on the road. The idea is that Bangkok's roads are in such bad shape that you would need a mountain bike to ride on them. I personally don't believe this, but I will tell you for sure in a few months time if and when I have to purchase new wheels for my road bike.
But the one thing that tells me that cycling is going to be the next big thing in Bangkok is that a Bike shop opened up close to where I live. In a land where bike shops are toy shops that specialise in bicycles for children a real bike shop is a great thing.

Annual Bangkok to Hua Hin ride (180k), yesterday:

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/5d3d2c851c66dc2aac1ed94e8e6864c7.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=47f51e01454953406fb1fd852cb23a8b)

I didn't join that ride, I was on the beach in Hua Hin/Khao Takiab. And believe it or not, this guy with the white Colnago turned up there, around 2 oclock afternoon! apparently he won the bike ..

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/5e579b5faa0e1a465a68d694d8eb87f9.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=073d52299da62779d984ea425a99539a)

Nice!

I've only been here a few days and I've already seen a few groups of teenagers riding what brand spanking new looking garish fixies. I saw one 30 something Thai guy in Chiang Mai ride past on a converted 80s lugged frame.

I'm still in search of the sacred warehouse where tubulars can be had for cheap :)

Another picture of the Bangkok to Hua Hin ride:

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/accf2ae485deae0f3e53b494dc95d83e.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=80100d1f376eeddc91b6d057198b8e3d)

So about those face masks -- is there a fair problem with air pollution or pollen on that route? Maybe the British company Respro, who make a pollution/pollen mask for cycling etc, have a marketing opportunity in Thailand.

I have a bit of an edge here: I had a house in Bangkok for 30 years. Ten of those years, I lived in Burma/Myanmar, but Bangkok remained my base. (The Myanmar gov’t ejected me from the country twice, so I had need for a base in such circumstances.)

My custom built 1981 Ritchey was shipped in to arrive just in time for me to join the Thai Nat’l team on a ride from Bangkok to Chiangmai to celebrate the Bi-Centennial in April, 1982. A couple photos:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/LeicaLad/OwenCycle.jpg

Sadly, that bike was stolen in a break-in to my house a few years ago.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/LeicaLad/OwenBike-Chiangmai-1.jpg

ANYWAY, the point is that there are multiple bike cultures in Thailand. The dominant is what has been described: clunky, utility bikes and cheap Chinese stuff. A somewhat higher end, focused on the carbon fiber fans, has been in place for well over a decade. Several shops have come and gone, but the one on Soi Sarasin, which is the street running along the northern side of Lumpini Park, continues to do a steady trade.

But there is also a substantial C&V crowd. Some are older, some are young hipsters. Mostly, they represent the affluent (or kids of affluent, regardless of age) who were educated abroad and developed their taste for lugged steel in the U.K., Europe or the US. Moreover, the Thais with means have always gravitated towards the “best available” products, whatever product caught/catches their fancy. Fine autos (3 Ferrari dealerships in Bkk), audio (the finest home systems I’ve ever seen are in Bkk), watches, wine or whatever. Which generally means that if any interest had been in bicycles, they tended to bring home the best – or often the most unique (another Thai passion) – that they had acquired during their years at school.

Freek posted a blog site of a gathering / event held over a year ago that was loaded with photos of fabulous collector level bikes and their well-heeled owners. There was even an event featuring recollections by some of the original riders of that historic Bi-Centennial cross-country ride. I thought it a hoot to see some of the guys I remembered. But even I was stunned by the amazing extent of fine bikes that were clearly documented in this collection of photos from that event.

So, as for the OP’s question, I would guess that the Thai buyers are a cross-section of some of these folks, as well as the kids who are, themselves, now returning from their the education abroad, as well as inheriting some of the bikes collected by their parents and grandparents.

Freek, I’ve lost that link, but if it’s still up, there were hundreds of photos showing where all those high-end parts have been going. Any chance you can re-post it?

Cheers!

:D

That Ritchey is fantastic. '81? You were well ahead of the curve. TA cranks, Huret derailleurs? Very cool.

I was just visiting a cousin and he showed me an old snapshot (circa '70, according to him) of him and his old Peugeot, back when he was a teenager. I took a bad cell snap of the photo, and will see if I can upload it.

You're quite correct about the status items. Another cousin has an amazing Bang & Olufsen stereo system that I don't think that she's ever used :)

Thanks for mentioning the link, Owen. I'd love to see it. Khun Freek?

I loved that Ritchey. Rode it all over Burma, too. Phil Wood hubs, etc.

This was it a few weeks before it was stolen. sigh.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/LeicaLad/7-RitcheyMountainBike-2.jpg

I recently found a 1984 collector's bike. A Ritchey Super Comp. that was/is pristine. I'm the first person to ever ride it. It's lovely, but isn't quite as perfect as my earlier one. You know that intimacy that one develops with a specific frame. sigh.

I went digging on my hard drive. Here is the link to the Thai Bike Show Event:

http://www.thaimtb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=304938&start=90

BUT, be WARNED! 1) the photo files are huge. 2) the pages are old. 3) it's a mish-mash of various people's photos from the event. 4) this link starts you on about page 7. 5) My computer was not happy with the bandwidth being demanded.

BUT, if your connection can handle it, the photos are there.

Cheers!

That Ritchey's gorgeous. Were they widely available in '81, or did you have to seek it out?

Here's a cousin of my cousin in Bangkok, circa 1970. He says that it was a Peugeot. Anyone have a guess on what model?



https://picasaweb.google.com/bobbymtroy/February72012#5706242898357354050

No joy with linking to a photo. working on a different PC here and can't suss it out....http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150537192801925&set=a.10150274334736925.335444.707986924&type=1&theater

Makes me wonder if there isn't a consortium that's about to go into re-producing all that nice old French gear. I for one wouldn't mind seeing new, old-school Maxi-Car clones hit the market.

Leicalad: by sheer coincidence I have found that link again. Many. many good quality photos, for all to enjoy!

http://www.thaimtb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=304938

Ahh, i see you beat me to it ... No problem loading those pages from here in Thailand. Of course. I hope the event will be organized again, next March, and I will find the necessary info in time. I'd like to bring the Presto and the Splendor, and display one and ride the other!

Personal links across nations. It’s a wonderful thing.

On a completely unrelated note, I just picked up my brand spanking new Thai ID card. I was born in the States but, after several years of wrangling, I was able to obtain a national ID card. Basically, this will now allow me, if I want, to own property or a business here (I think). Specifically (and to make this on topic), I may form a vintage bike commune here in my retirement years :)


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_pD_FzjzqXBg/TX4v_ryQyJI/AAAAAAAAHBg/isuwJ3s0XOQ/s800/MM130232.JPG

Not sure what kind of frame this is, but I love the decal. Corrado Feroci was an Italian transplant to Thailand who became the father of modern art in Thailand. Makes me want to start a Chicago chapter of the club. I guess that Chicago should really have a Mies Van der Rohe cycle club...

Congrats on the ID card. It's not so easy these days as it was years ago.

I had my Ritchey custom made. It cost more money than I had. Fortunately, the new job in Thailand paid me just enough to pay the bill by the time it was ready! In ordering it, I spoke to Charles Kelly, Gary Fisher . . . and to the man, himself, TR. All the more reason I miss that bike.

I love the decal on the shot above. Few will realize that Silpa Bhirasri (even if they can read the signature) was the Thai name adopted by Corrado Feroci. I used to live near the old Bhirasri Institute, so it's easier for me to remember!

The shot of your cousin doesn't open for me. This may be a problem at my end. . .

Glad that others can open the links to the Thai event. Fabulous bikes. I arrived a couple weeks later, so I missed it. Drats!!!

:D

Let's try this again....

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uVniyRlO8ZI/TzEibWE-oHI/AAAAAAAAE0Q/tzF6FsJYADo/s720/Nok%2520Pug%25202.jpg

Let's try this again....

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uVniyRlO8ZI/TzEibWE-oHI/AAAAAAAAE0Q/tzF6FsJYADo/s720/Nok%2520Pug%25202.jpg

What a really beautiful picture!

Thanks. He was showing me some great photos in an old album (a lot of old photos of my parents, etc.), and then he flipped to this! Just a cell snapshot of it while still in the album. Wish I would've taken a better shot.

Thanks for the link to the photos from the vintage ride last year. Looks like it was a blast; I'd have loved to have been there.

Chok dii, khawp!

Maybe not strictly c&v, but still classic:

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/2e916d40759140f39b49296777e14234.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=03e8278cd3c0c8177bc4261fc094cec9)

In Thailand, always in good spirits!

Classic bikes, Thai style!

http://www.upthai.net/pictures/64b9c1e685a53dc44924c13726df61a2.jpg (http://www.upthai.net/index2.php?out=http://www.upthai.net/show-image.php?id=6d1e0921fad51aee12849e8481e6f356)