Commuting - Are you OK with slowing down motorists?

Several discussions I've been involved with here have ended up at the same point: a cyclist expressing a reluctance to slow down motorists. Some feel it is unsafe to do so. Others recognize it is not unsafe, but are reluctant because they feel it's rude.

Vehicular cyclists, those who believe that "cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles" have gotten over this reluctance. We recognize that we have the same rights and responsibilities on the road as do motor vehicle drivers, and ride accordingly. In particular, we will not compromise our safety (by, say, riding on the wrong side of the road, in a crosswalk, or on a sidewalk) in order to avoid inconveniencing motorists. We also have learned how to safely negotiate our way across multiple lanes of high-speed traffic in order to get to a left turn lane, and don't worry about how that slows down some motorists. Once establishing ourselves in a lane, we're comfortable riding there as long as necessary, even if we are being passed on both sides by high speed traffic, even if we are slowing down motorists behind us.

As pedestrians, we cause motorists to come to a complete stop in order to let us cross at uncontrolled (no signals) intersections, and yet we sleep well at night. In grocery lines we don't feel guilty about having a grocery cart full of groceries and folks behind us in line with fewer items. Why worry about slowing down motorists when we're on our bikes?

Are YOU OK with slowing down motorists, say when the lane is too narrow to safely share side-by-side with a car? Or when you're going fast downhill and riding near the right side or even in the bike lane is not enough safety margin for the speed at which you are travelling? Or merging across multiple lanes to get into a left turn lane? Why or why not?

Did you have a reluctance in the past that you've now gotten over? How did you do that?

Serge

I ride in a manner consistant with my comfort and abilities, as well as my trust of the motorists on the road at that particular time.

I take the lane when it's too narrow to share, or when I'm smokin down a hill and need the extra room. I don't feel bad about it.

But there are times when I do not take the lane even though it is my right. This is usually for safety reasons.



Vehicular cyclists, those who believe that "cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles"

I'm not always treated like a driver of a vehicle. In those instances I will make my decision based on safety. Sometimes using a crosswalk instead of left turn lane or riding slowly within door range whilst intensly examining the interiors of the parked cars that I'm approaching.

My priorities are:
1) Be safe. No accidents or injuries
2) Get where I'm going
3) Have fun
4) Get there quickly

I use the my rights to the roadway in persuit of those goals.

Where I live, perhaps 1 in 10 "motorists" treat me like I have the same rights as a car on the road, and I’d hasten to guess that 1 in 100 actually know that I do. Therefore, I don't feel compelled to do much on their behalf. I ride where it's safe for me to ride. Sometimes that means taking the lane, sometimes that means taking the sidewalk; and yes, sometimes that means breaking the law.

As the saying goes, I’d rather be tried by 12, than carried by 6! :eek:

I'm basically the same way... I'll ride the sidewalk when absolutely necessary, like if I feel like cruising along at 7mph and there are cars parked along the streets. For the most part, I take the shoulder whenever possible and if I take a lane and slow down motorists, I'll often find a place to pull off and let them pass safely. I'm more concerned with getting where I'm going safely than exercising my right as a "motorist". Two tons of steel and rubber vs. 160 lbs of aluminum and flesh, it's not difficult to figure out who would win that contest and I act accordingly.

This is an extremely important part of cycling, and I try to explain this to my friends who do not ride as much as I do, and they do not get it. At one time I was a little uncomfortable with this, but not terribly afraid, as I had motorcycles all the time.
Finally I was convinced to use, and get used to a good helmet mirror. That was all I needed to become totally comfortable with passing traffic of all kinds. Still I did not really ride in traffic as a vehicle as I should. And me of all people, having had motorcycles for 30 years! I finally found a book called "Urban Bikers Tricks and Tips". It is written in a very easy to understand clear simple manner. Just about anyone would understand this. After reading about all the traffic cycling It confirmed what I had in the back of my head, but really did not apply. Now It's easy for me. I might add that I am totally comfortable with the mirror.

I think this is what they call "counter intuitive" your survival instinct tells you not to get in front of a dangerous thing coming at you when you can not see it. I think this is something you need to LEARN. Similar to pushing a tiller on a boat against the way you want to go, at first.

I spent a year telling a friend how to merge, deal with lanes, exit and entering ramps etc. to no avail. aarrgghhh!! One day I lied, I said " I have to give this book to someone tomorrow, do you want to read it tonight before it's gone, before tomorrows heavy traffic ride?" Then I left the room.
The next day he was gliding along with traffic perfectly and smoothly, no close calls for the first time ever. I decided it was best to never ask him if he read the book.

On a narrow bridge I acknowledge the best driver behind me the other day. The driver of a huge truck. I go into the lane in front of him and give the stopping signal with my hand for slowing down. He understands the lane is too narrow for both of us. He is following me down a hill on a huge bridge slowing down in a semi. I'm in the middle of the lane. The bridge workers see what is going on. They go CRAZY .....
The lane opens up, I move over, I wave him to pass. He passes and beeps a little beep AFTER passing me, for letting him pass.

I know...he knows....it's a beautifull day. :)

I use the roads without hesitation if I can...i.e. double lanes, etc. I have no problem using a turn lane and actually think it's safer than some cross walks, i've almost been hit twice going across a crosswalk by right turning cars. If I am going down a hill I will also use a lane, and rarely will I move over if there is plenty of room for them to pass. This is a big problem of one main stretch of road, cars don't realize I have a right to be there and blair their horn at me while I'm in the right hand lane...they eventually figure out to go around me.

It's interesting that you are recommending "Urban Bikers' Tricks & Tips". It has been panned by a number of folks on Amazon, including me. I must say that it does have quite a bit of spot-on great advice, and I could see how it would help improve the skills of most cyclists. However, he has some advice in there that is, in a word, deadly.

Some of the review titles are pretty clear on this:

"Spoiled by irresponsible advice"
"Great for thugs"
"Outrageous suicidal advice" (that's mine!)
"Dangerous advice that will get you killed"

It's the "sly cyclist" tips he has in there that cause most if not all of the problems. Here's what I said in my review:

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I admit I've done most if not all of the dangerous "sly cyclist" "tips & tricks" recommended by this book - but I did them when I didn't know better. You'd think a book on biking would help one know better...
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If you ignore the "sly cyclist" crap it is an excellent book, but most reviews recommend "Effective Cycling" or "Cyclecraft" (or both) instead.

Serge

Are YOU OK with slowing down motorists, say when the lane is too narrow to safely share side-by-side with a car?

Did you have a reluctance in the past that you've now gotten over? How did you do that?
This is a great thread, Serge.

I realized that I'm a cyclist, not a driver of a 100 or 200 horsepower Lay-Z-Boy. If a driver can't get home on time with that kind of power and comfort, and negotiate all traffic situations safely and patiently, including occasional cyclists and pedestrians who might slow him down, he's not worthy.

I do my best not to slow down traffic. Not because I feel bad for the drivers, but because it's safer for me. I don't ride sidewalks, etc... I take the less heavily driven roads. There is a section of about a mile that I take the lane on my way to work. It is three lanes of traffic with a 45 MPH speed limit. Traffic in rush hour runs between 40 and 60 MPH. It was scary at first, but I'm now much more compfortable when I ride farther out in the lane. If you don't give them room to squeeze by you they have to wait for the next lane over to open up. They may honk more and be upset, but in the end I'm safer for it. It's worth it to me.

I do try to hit the big intersection at the end of the light's cycle. That way I'm most of the way to the turn-off to a much smaller parallel street before the next wave of traffic catches up to me. If the timing doesn't work out I still take the lane.

In response to those that ride the sidewalk: I did that when I first started this commute. I had more close calls doing it by far than I've had since. People in cars aren't looking for you there. Not that they're looking for you in the lane, but with a bright well aimed blinkie they are more likely to see you in the lane than elsewhere. Also the road is a much better surface to ride on than the sidewalk, which is interupted constantly with driveways, entranceways, and sometimes curbs. At least that's how it is where I ride.

I like to consider myself a courteous cyclist, but I NEVER sacrifice my right to the road or my safety for the convenience of a few seconds of a motorist's time. I will ride to the right in lanes wide enough to share, and I do not force motorists to pass me twice by riding to the front of a que of cars at the light. However, I also will not inconvenience myself by pulling over and allowing them to pass, nor will I take to the sidewalk (a potentially more dangerous practice than riding visibly in the lane). I am a firm believer in cyclists' rights and responsibilities on the road and will not allow myself to behave in a fashion that insinuates the bicycle is a second class vehicle or cyclists second class citizens.

Okay, now the short answer. I am quite OK with slowing down motorists. In fact, most of them SHOULD slow down for EVERYONE'S safety....theirs included.

Put it this way, I like slowing down cars almost as much as I like grandma in front of me biking at 10mph when I'm trying to get to work. However, I will always take the lane when necessary, cars have almost never honked at me when I did, even in busy traffic, I guess there are enough bikes around here that they understand, plus I can usually go fast enough to keep up with the car in front of me should I have to sprint to the speed limit.
I second the fact that it seems counter intuitive but sometimes it's safer to get in front of a car coming down on you from behind and take the lane rather than allow them to squeeze by.
Another thing I've tried is counter-eye-contact. The theory is, if you look at a driver and make eye contact, the driver will think that you, as a slower vehicle, will slow down and they'll cross the intersection. I noticed that if I keep my head straight but turn my eyes to look at cars while I'm nearing an intersection, the driver thinks I'm looking straight and don't see them and a lot of times will not pass until I pass. I tried this with a coworker as the 2 of us biked home and it worked pretty well.

Am I "reluctant" to slow down cars behind me when taking a lane? Yes, always. If I'm holding up a car I am essentially entrusting my life to a stranger. There are too many inattentive and/or incompetent drivers out there who aren't worthy of my trust. I take a lane every day but try to time it so I'm not holding up cars.

Reluctance plus action = vigilence = safety.

I like slowing down cars almost as much as I like grandma in front of me biking at 10mph when I'm trying to get to work. However, I will always take the lane when necessary
My sentiments exactly.

I think it's possible to be assertive, aggressive and courteous almost simultaneously. I see no need to hold up traffic just because I have the right to ... not if there's room for all of us. If I was driving a big ass van that couldn't hit 55 mph, you wouldn't see me in the left lane of the freeway, even though I would definitely have the right to be there.

In fact, I would argue that riding in this manner is better for all cyclists, if it causes even one cager to say "Hey, they're not all that bad."

I have to cross under a busy freeway twice on my commute; one at the beginning and one at the end. I am always reluctant to make cars slow down because I know what my reaction would be! But I do it anyway, reluctant or not.

On the first one, there are two lanes that turn right onto the freeway, and I go straight through. Sometimes I wait at the last light until it turns yellow, then go. Other times I just look, signal, and take the lane.

The second place has lanes too narrow for me to share with a car, so I look, signal and take the lane. There is a light right before the underpass, and most of the time I let the first car go ahead while I am clipping in.

Now that I've written it out, I realize I always look behind me before taking the lane. I think this sort of signals your intention in advance. When you take the lane, take the whole lane! If you don't, some people will try to drive around you.
Tom

I think it's possible to be assertive, aggressive and courteous almost simultaneously. I see no need to hold up traffic just because I have the right to ... not if there's room for all of us. If I was driving a big ass van that couldn't hit 55 mph, you wouldn't see me in the left lane of the freeway, even though I would definitely have the right to be there.

In fact, I would argue that riding in this manner is better for all cyclists, if it causes even one cager to say "Hey, they're not all that bad."

FWIW, I agree 100%.

In particular, I never "hold up traffic just because I have the right to". However, I don't hestitate to do it if it's necessary for my safety. The problem is that you don't have time to do a detailed analysis of a given traffic situation to determine if taking a lane is necessary for safety. In other words, there's quite a gray area on this issue. And what I'm trying to emphasize is the benefit of erring on the side of safety. This is what I was trying to point out in all of those examples in your excellent presentation in your interchange thread. The language chosen there often indicated erring on the side of avoiding holding up motorists, not safety.

Serge

I'm another vehicular cyclist. I see it like this: roads are shared spaces. We all have to play together and play nice. Cars slow each other down every day, on every journey. Worrying about slowing cars down is an inferiority complex.

Sure, if there's space and it is safe, I keep to the side so they can pass. That's just politeness. But where it is safest for me to take the lane, I always take the lane, as is my right.

I just wish the drivers who rev impatiently behind me then scorch past on their way to the queue at the stoplight twenty yards ahead would think a little!

Once, after just a couple months of biking, I moved out of the lane and onto the shoulder to let a bus by. Then just as the bus was passing me, I hit a pile of pebbles and almost fell. That would have been it for me.

So now I take the lane often, for my safety and for the safety of the drivers. There are too many times when the driver behind me doesn't seem able to pick a safe time to pass me (on a road with one lane each direction), so I help them out by blocking my lane completely and making it obvious that there's not enough room on the road for two cars and a bike all lined up next to each other.

If you ignore the "sly cyclist" crap it is an excellent book, but most reviews recommend "Effective Cycling" or "Cyclecraft" (or both) instead.


Like 2manybikes, I liked this book, and I didn't have a problem with the "sly cyclist" tips. I thought he made it pretty clear that they were risky, and that you shouldn't try them unless you really knew what you were doing.

Plus, it had instructions on riding up and down stairs, which I just thought was cool :)

There are too many times when the driver behind me doesn't seem able to pick a safe time to pass me (on a road with one lane each direction), so I help them out by blocking my lane completely and making it obvious that there's not enough room on the road for two cars and a bike all lined up next to each other.

I think you have a point here- it is not just cyclists that feel the pressure of holding other motorist up. Motorists feel under pressure too and if you leave them a possible gap they may feel that they have to try for it in order to not hold anyone up behind. If you make it clear that there is no gap then the responsibility for the hold up is taken away from the driver of the car behind.

Are YOU OK with slowing down motorists, say when the lane is too narrow to safely share side-by-side with a car? Or when you're going fast downhill and riding near the right side or even in the bike lane is not enough safety margin for the speed at which you are travelling? Or merging across multiple lanes to get into a left turn lane? Why or why not?

Did you have a reluctance in the past that you've now gotten over? How did you do that?

Serge

I'm not quite OK with it, but I'm getting their and think it is the ideal to shoot for. One situation in which I have no qualms about taking the lane is when a huge truck or bus is coming up behind me. I usually hear the diesel engine gunning. I check back and then take the lane to make sure the driver must entirely switch lanes to pass. Why? I've had one too many occasions where I try to ride to the right and they take that as a signal to pass in the same lane. No fun being buzzed by a vehicle with tires up to my kneck.

I just get off briefly and let them around.
They appreciate it, and I don't like having cars that close.
It's good to be able to ride the shoulder.
I've rode with people who think they'll fall off the edge of the earth if they right to the right of the white line.

[QUOTE=elbows]Like 2manybikes, I liked this book, and I didn't have a problem with the "sly cyclist" tips. I thought he made it pretty clear that they were risky, and that you shouldn't try them unless you really knew what you were doing.

Having had dirt bike motorcycles with suspension on both ends, riding down stairs on a MTB is easy for me, however did you ever try the part about riding up stairs? I never did.

I though it would have been better to leave some of the more risky "sly biker" ideas out of the book because it may encourage someone to try something above their ability. Like skitching for example. I'm not going to try that. It's dangerous.

i ride a portion of my daily ride along a major artery with two lanes of traffic both directions and a multi-use path right alongside.

all summer (not so much when the temps drop) there are roadies who "take the lane" on this road which is twisty and people routinely drive at 50+ mph.

while i agree these people have the right to do this and i sympathize with their rights and all, i would be scared for my life and never be able to enjoy riding with the constant threat of getting rammed up the @ss by some inconsiderate schmuck... so i take the multi-use path and swerve around the rollerbladers and the couples jogging who need to have the whole width of the path for themselves...

btw, i am speaking of kelly drive in philly if any of you know it. would you take the lane out there? i fear my life too much!

the rest of my commute has bike lanes, WOOO BIKE LANES! i don't trust people around here enough to risk my life hoping they do the right thing...

My signature says it all.

I have no qualms slowing a car down for fifteen seconds so I can get to where I'm going. So what I made him fifteen seconds later than he/she already was, do you have any idea how much time is taken from me due to motorists?

Are YOU OK with slowing down motorists ... Did you have a reluctance in the past that you've now gotten over? How did you do that?

I pretty much adhere to the Arizona statutes on biking, which basically state: When you are riding slower than the normal speed of traffic, "ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway" except when making a left hand turn, passing something slower than you, or avoid a hazard. Pretty vague. How close is "practicable to ... the curb"? For me, that's normally about two feet from my tires, unless I need more (rain, steep drop off curb), and I maintain this pretty aggressively, so that drivers can figure out that I'm not weaving and can judge if they can get by or not. For a local bike activist, it was three-and-a-half feet, and that got the attention of the police, for whom a "practicable" distance was 18 inches. Read his letter (http://azbikeclub.r.m6.net/codding.pdf) for the story, his rationale and grahpics).

I am reasonably reluctant to hold up traffic. I am also reasonably reluctant to endanger myself by not giving myself enough room for safety. The key word is reasonable. I don't care if I hold up traffic if it is reasonable, and reasonable depends on a lot of things, including subjective perception. For me, it is reasonable to take about a third of the lane, for others it is reasonable to take more or less.

I was reluctant to ride with cars until I tried it and got some experience with it. Now, it's second nature.

Having had dirt bike motorcycles with suspension on both ends, riding down stairs on a MTB is easy for me, however did you ever try the part about riding up stairs? I never did.


I never tried riding stairs in either direction. Heck, hopping curbs still makes me a little nervous ;-)

At any rate, these days I commute on a road bike and I don't think my rims would survive.

I'm fine with it. The California Vehicle Code also has a "practicable" standard and I interpret that pretty liberally. That means that if there is crap in the bike lane, I take the motor lane. If it's a substandard bike lane (like it's 90% gutter pan), I take the motor lane. If it's a bridge or causeway and there's no safe place to bail out, I take the motor lane. If there are parked cars along the lane and the doorzone extends out over the bike lane, I take the motor lane.

But you've got to do it like you mean it. I try to look back and establish eye contact with the driver I"m pulling in front of. I give an unambiguous handsignal by pointing vigorously and repeatedly into the lane. And I make a decisive move into the lane. If it's safe, I'll usually stand up and sprint to let them know I'm not just going to sit there and delay them. Then when it's safe, I'll pull over and wave them through.

9 times out of 10, the driver gives a friendly wave or honk. The tenth driver is probably just a jerk anyway, so I don't worry about it.

i think this is one area where having heavy slow traffic is a bonus. in NYC i can usually ride at the same speed or faster than motorists. if i do have to slow someone down, it's usually only for a block or two so it's not a big deal. sometimes they get huffy, but whatever, they'll get over it. i'm scared out of my mind on those open roads where cars are flying by at 60 or 70 mph. can't get used to it.

I try my best to accommodate my activities both to my needs and the comfort of others. I don't drive below or at the speed limit in the laft lane on an expressway nor do I occupy a traffic lane while on the bike unless it is necessary or I have the road to myself.

I learned all about this 2 weeks ago. If I do not have to take the lane then I will not. I will also not ride in an area that I feel it is unsafe for me to do so, i.e. no bike lane, extremely narrow streets. I paid dearly for an impacient driver 2 weeks ago. On a training ride (25 MPH +) I took the 1/3rd of a lane on a four lane road. A driver was mad and decided to hit me from behind.

I will not ride on the sidewalk ever and anywhere the sidewalk is the bike lane I will not take it. I make every effort to ensure I do not get in tangles with motorists but not to the lack of "my" safety.


I’d rather be tried by 12, than carried by 6!
Agreed, and I came close to that already. Now I am not going to go and confront a motorist but...

I couldn't care less if I inconvenience a driver.

I could care more :p

btw, i am speaking of kelly drive in philly if any of you know it. would you take the lane out there? i fear my life too much!

I used to ride out there for exercise while I was going to school at Drexel. I'd ride the path heading north and ride on Kelly drive heading back south. Now that I have a lot more experience road riding, and after many close calls with people on the multi-use path, I'd say you are definitely safer taking the lane on that road. I almost ran over many dogs and children who's owners/parents had no idea how to keep them in control and would get very aggravated trying to pass rollerbladers whose side to side movement made them almost impossible to get around. Then there's the people walking three abreast talking on cell phones. At least on the road you know what to expect and it's pretty wide enough for a car to pass you without interfering with the lane next to them.

On a training ride (25 MPH +) I took the 1/3rd of a lane on a four lane road. A driver was mad and decided to hit me from behind.

Uh, that sounds like battery to me. Please tell us more. Are you sure it was intentional? Are the police after this guy? Did you pull out in front of him, or were you riding there and he came up from behind some time later? If you already wrote about this in another thread, please point us to that. Thanks.

Serge

Yes. I daily commute on a major north south arterial in Tacoma Wa. Half the ride is on 4 lane and half is on 2 lane. I ride the grease strip of the outside lane on the 4 lane. Most drivers use the right lane of the 4 lane to pass. This includes city cops, county cops and other local city cops. Doesn’t bother me a bit to force them to pass me legally.
There is enough room for cars to pass safely on the 2 lane even though there are parked cars. I feel safer with a 18 wheeler passing me than most cars. They move closer to the center line when passing. I do ride fairly far from parked cars and have a few drivers that will not pass. I also have drivers deliberately get as close as they can. I call them “gonna teach you a lesson” drivers. The worst thing is one day they will misjudge and hurt a cyclist. I will not react to horns. If anything I will move slightly to the left. I never move in and out of parked cars. Followed a cyclist doing that the other night and their light would disappear then reappear. I will move in as much as the door line but always out far enough that my lights are never hidden by parked cars.
I do ride on the sidewalk on one ride to our bicycle club meetings. The east west streets that cross I-5 are dangerous to drive let alone bicycle. I ride the sidewalk until I can move north or south to a better safer street. Even on this I sometimes wonder if I would be safer taking a lane.
Sometimes it pays to be older and stubborn. 6 years of commuting have made me very aggressive in my taking as much of the road as I need. I have been brushed and had several close calls measured in 1 inch or less. In all cases the drivers were not paying attention. As a commuter I have the same wants and needs as the drivers. Get to home or work in the fastest safest way I can.
I am well lighted now and intend to get even more so. They have no excuse for not seeing me. I use a rearview mirror and try to keep track of what is happening behind me. If they are going to hit me they better have good insurance. I don’t heal as fast any more and my bike and components cost more than half the cars I commute with.
Phil Lux

(Veering slightly off-topic...)

The other day I was driving down a street that had been widened and repainted since my last visit. They had included a new "bike lane." I was amazed.

This "bike lane" was almost exactly wide enough to fit a cyclist in, no more. I'd say it was about two feet wide, at the most. From the car, it looked skinnier that that!

The more I see crap like this, the more I distrust the ignorance of road designers. I'll ride where I am safe, which is not always where I'm directed to ride.

(Veering slightly off-topic...)

The other day I was driving down a street that had been widened and repainted since my last visit. They had included a new "bike lane." I was amazed.

This "bike lane" was almost exactly wide enough to fit a cyclist in, no more. I'd say it was about two feet wide, at the most. From the car, it looked skinnier that that!

The more I see crap like this, the more I distrust the ignorance of road designers. I'll ride where I am safe, which is not always where I'm directed to ride.

3rd Street in brooklyn was recently repaved. There used to be this faded narrow bike lane. Now the bike lane is 2/3rds the with of the car lane on the 1 way street.

Most drivers just seem so aggressive and frustrated. The last thing I want to do is hold one of these types up or cause any of them to vent their frustrations on me. I have a hill I ride where I can't help but hold them up as I spin up in my lowest gear. I prefer stay to the right and hope they get a chance to pass so I can have some peace and quiet spinning up my hill. I really don't like the look of a giant SUV grill in my rear view mirror.

Here in the DC area, most lanes are wide enough to be sharable. Consequently, I normally have to take the lane only when merging or at intersections. Furthermore, there are some routes where I am going as fast or faster than the cars.

I figure I'm entitled to delay them by a few seconds once in a while for my own safety. Furthermore, I save somebody fifteen minutes of searching for a parking spot. The cagers should be thanking me.

Paul

I used to ride out there for exercise while I was going to school at Drexel. I'd ride the path heading north and ride on Kelly drive heading back south. Now that I have a lot more experience road riding, and after many close calls with people on the multi-use path, I'd say you are definitely safer taking the lane on that road. I almost ran over many dogs and children who's owners/parents had no idea how to keep them in control and would get very aggravated trying to pass rollerbladers whose side to side movement made them almost impossible to get around. Then there's the people walking three abreast talking on cell phones. At least on the road you know what to expect and it's pretty wide enough for a car to pass you without interfering with the lane next to them.

i'd rather hit a rollerblader than get mowed down by a car anyday. :D

i look at the foot-traffic dodging as training for my weekend mountainbike adventures. never too many people out there on anything other than on sunny afternoons anyway...

I'm a vehicular cyclist. I never try to slow down cars, but I don't do anything much out of the ordinary because I'm concerned with slowing them down. If I'm on a road where the traffic is at a high speed, I usually try to go pretty fast myself.

You know what slows me down? Cars and all the stupid stuff that is needed because everybody uses them--stop signs and traffic lights all over the place, highways that I have to route around, etc. etc.

Riding on sidewalks? I'm not saying it isn't ever appropriate, but I've never seen a road too dangerous for me to ride on that had a sidewalk.

Just ride, brother. The data shows that getting hit from behind (unless you are driving around at night w/o lights) is one of the least likely ways to get hit by a car. Take the lane and you'll feel and be much safer. I've learned to take the lane in a sneaky way. I ride far enough off the curb that only a motorcycle could pass me in my lane, just a few feet fromt the center of the lane. I'm still taking the lane, but the perception is that I'm to the right, and I have fewer idiot problems with this position.

Riding to the right of the center of the lane, also gets you off of the oil that may drip from cars in the exact center of the lane. On rough roads this sometimes is smoother too.

It's interesting that you are recommending "Urban Bikers' Tricks & Tips". It has been panned by a number of folks on Amazon, including me. I must say that it does have quite a bit of spot-on great advice, and I could see how it would help improve the skills of most cyclists. However, he has some advice in there that is, in a word, deadly.

Some of the review titles are pretty clear on this:

"Spoiled by irresponsible advice"
"Great for thugs"
"Outrageous suicidal advice" (that's mine!)
"Dangerous advice that will get you killed"

It's the "sly cyclist" tips he has in there that cause most if not all of the problems. Here's what I said in my review:

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I admit I've done most if not all of the dangerous "sly cyclist" "tips & tricks" recommended by this book - but I did them when I didn't know better. You'd think a book on biking would help one know better...
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If you ignore the "sly cyclist" crap it is an excellent book, but most reviews recommend "Effective Cycling" or "Cyclecraft" (or both) instead.

Serge


Serge, you are right about the "sly cyclist" part.

It was a year ago or more when I read that book. I saw the " sly cyclist" crap. I Ignored it as idiotic, remembered the part that was good and started to forget about the dangerous parts.
After riding motorcycles for 30 years, and racing dirt motorcycles for over ten years, I did not have trouble sorting out the stupid dangerous suggestions and ignoring them. But, after carefully reading your post and thinking about it I remember more of the dangerous part. You DON'T put things like that into a book for the public! Some people will try them and get hurt.....period.

Serge, are you a highway engineer designing bike lanes or surveying for future improvements? Or what?

No, I'm not a highway engineer. I am toying with the idea of riding a book on traffic cycling, however.

Food for thought related to the topic of this thread from John Forester that he posted on a different forum (and I am copying with his permission):




I dislike any argument that concerns the supposed "difference in value"
between drivers. That's the problem with the "motorist superiority" view,
and it is equally a problem with the "cyclist superiority" view, both of
which have appeared in this discussion. All drivers are equal in legal
standing and as far as traffic law is concerned. Some drivers have slow
vehicles, some have faster vehicles, some have small ones, some have large
ones. All have equal right to travel along the roadway. It is correct that
drivers going slowly should be nearer the curb than those going faster,
provided there is adequate width for all, but when there is adequate width
for only one, then the one in front has just as much right as the one
behind. Again, when conditions are such that this causes a train of
vehicles behind the slow one, politeness, and the law in many states,
requires that the slower driver move over, even come to a stop far enough
aside, where that can be done safely, to let the faster drivers overtake.
That's reasonable. But it makes no difference whether the slow driver is on
a bicycle, driving a farming implement, looking at the roadside flowers, or
in a vehicle that just can't go any faster (for whatever reason).

all summer (not so much when the temps drop) there are roadies who "take the lane" on this road which is twisty and people routinely drive at 50+ mph.

while i agree these people have the right to do this and i sympathize with their rights and all, i would be scared for my life and never be able to enjoy riding with the constant threat of getting rammed up the @ss by some inconsiderate schmuck... so i take the multi-use path and swerve around the rollerbladers and the couples jogging who need to have the whole width of the path for themselves...

btw, i am speaking of kelly drive in philly if any of you know it. would you take the lane out there? i fear my life too much!

This is a very revealing post. Your reluctance to ride in traffic appears to be based on safety concerns. Do you consider those "roadies" out there to be suicidal maniacs? Have you ever considered that they might know something you don't know?

Who do you think is more likely to get killed in a collision with a car... an experienced vehicular cyclist who eschews bikeways and is taking the lane on Kelly Drive, riding right where everyone expects vehicles to be and is looking there, or a novice riding along a bike lane (note: the novice is vulnerable to all kinds of cross-traffic, including going in and out of driveways, comprised of motorists who are likely to not be looking in the bike lane where he is riding)?

"the constant threat of getting rammed up the @ss by some inconsiderate schmuck..." Constant threat? What threat? Do you realize how rare it is for a cyclist to be hit from behind, particular during the day in a non-rural setting? It's practically unheard of. Yes, it does happen, and so does fatal food poisoning, but we still eat at restaurants don't we?

Serge

This is a very revealing post. Your reluctance to ride in traffic appears to be based on safety concerns. Do you consider those "roadies" out there to be suicidal maniacs? Have you ever considered that they might know something you don't know?

Who do you think is more likely to get killed in a collision with a car... an experienced vehicular cyclist who eschews bikeways and is taking the lane on Kelly Drive, riding right where everyone expects vehicles to be and is looking there, or a novice riding along a bike lane (note: the novice is vulnerable to all kinds of cross-traffic, including going in and out of driveways, comprised of motorists who are likely to not be looking in the bike lane where he is riding)?

"the constant threat of getting rammed up the @ss by some inconsiderate schmuck..." Constant threat? What threat? Do you realize how rare it is for a cyclist to be hit from behind, particular during the day in a non-rural setting? It's practically unheard of. Yes, it does happen, and so does fatal food poisoning, but we still eat at restaurants don't we?

Serge

Has anyone discussed at length why they feel this way?

I know I'm repeating but, for an inexperienced rider it's almost a natural "feeling" that not seeing what's coming behind you is "bad". Getting really good with a helmet mirror helped me hugely. A lot of people are totally surprised or shocked when a noisy vehicle goes by, just because it's noisy. "Situational awareness" will vary from person to person, my experience has shown me that the riders I know that Have ADD can't concentrate on the traffic and the mirror well, and are always "stunned" by any surprise. This starts to get into perception and behavior I know, but I have learned that it has so much to do with it, and it's so common. This is just one example. The only way I can imagine to battle this since everyone is different, is education and real life training. I think "mirror training" is a good chapter for a cycling book. Some people I know can not back up their car with mirrors into a garage if their life depended on it. I can do it by myself with a huge truck. We have different levels of awareness or understanding of what's happening.

I'm the only cyclist I know that has read about statistics and traffic safety I ride with, or know, etc. I try to educate friends, but I'm pretty frustrated. Any kind of public "cycling in traffic" education would be fantastic starting with this one thing!

I try to explain to one friend about not going in behind cars and out again into the traffic lane while riding alongside a row of parked cars because you go out of view, he still does it. I'm going to buy him a mirror some day and see what happens. But, this guy cannot sit still if I back up my car with the mirrors, he has to look.!? I have also shared the odds about not really being hit from behind with another guy, but until he read it in a book it had no effect.

QUESTION FOR THE RIDERS WHO WILL NOT RIDE IN FRONT OF A CAR OR IN A LANE...DO YOU HAVE A MIRROR? ARE YOU GOOD AT USING IT?

Sounds like you already know what the "right" way is and that those who don't do it that way need to be convinced.

I'm happy with my success so far doing it the way I've been doing it. I really don't want to do it more aggressively, asserting my right to take the road all over the place. It just puts me in the possition of being yet another aggressive driver battling it out, and getting away from driving is why I ride my bike.

What about the possibilty of wrecking or "messing up" when a car or truck is following closely? Then getting hit!
I'm sure it's happened.
I prefer to get the dangerous vehicles away from me.

I only do it if I have too. like going down steep hills. I usualy avoid narrow roads. but I know it pisses some drivers off. my sister for one (G) a couple of days ago I took the lane as I was getting ready to turn left and it was on a hill I was doing about 25 in a 35 zone this idiot in a SUV passed me and crossed a double yellow line to do it. I had another idiot do the same thing on the flats where I had just signeled to turn left and just about did when he flew past crossing a double yellow line.

I only do it [slow down motorists] if I have too.

I believe this is how most experienced cyclists think of it.

I advocate a subtle but oh-so-significant change in attitude: I slow down motorists unless it is safe to let them pass.

In other words, the focus should be on your own safety, rather than on not holding up motorists. If you need to be in the middle of the lane to increase your visibility and predictability -- which enhances your safety -- so be it, even if that means slowing down motorists. Whether a given lane position slows down motorists should be a secondary consideration. If two lane positions are equally safe, and one slows down motorists more than the other, than, sure, take the one that affects motorists less. But you should never compromise your safety -- by choosing a lane position that reduces your visibility and/or predictability -- in order to to avoid slowing down motorists.

It may sound reasonable, yet I see cyclists compromising their safety in this manner every day, all the time. I think this is because most cyclists seem to unaware at how riding near the edge of the roadway reduces their safety - by reducing their visibility and/ or predictability.

For example, I hear and read about this complaint all the time: "a car cut me off that just passed me". This is usually expressed with much indignation. The usual explanation is that drivers don't realize how fast cyclists are moving. Yet it's also true that in those circumstances where the driver can be reached after such an incident, the driver usually claims he or she did not even see the cyclist. Why? How often do cyclists consider why the motorist did not see the cyclist? Is it because the cyclist is narrow? Or is it because the cyclist's position near the right edge, often in a bike lane, is out of the motorists path and his or her awareness?

Riding outside of motorists' paths is a double-edged sword: Motorists are understandably and reasonably concerned primarily with their intended path, and all potential conflicts in that path. The more focussed a motorist is on his or her path, the more he or she is unaware of anyone and anything outside of his path. In particular, vehicles moving in parallel with their path, and outside of their paths, are not given much attention, particularly if they are clearly moving slower. It is understandable that the subconscious mind of the motorist is not going to bring to the attention of the conscious mind some non-threat like a slow/parallel cyclist that is easily passed. Thus, it should be no surprise that a motorist can "not see" a cyclist as he passes him, and then cuts in front of him when he turns. Given the predictability of these situations, I strongly believe that the cyclist is at fault. The cyclist is at fault for riding too far to the right, perhaps even in the bike lane, as he approaches an intersection where right turns are allowed, but the cyclist is going straight. If he rides further to the left, yes, in the path of the motorist, the motorist will be made consciously aware of him, and, just as importantly, the cyclist's intent (his predictability), will be made clear: He is in the roadway, he is not turning right, and he is going straight at that upcoming intersection.

As you get within a few hundred feet of an intersection, even a minor intersection with no signals, perhaps even an intersection with a driveway to a mall, or even a driveway to a residence, unless you are turning right at that intersection, you should merge away from the right edge, at least to the right tire track, perhaps even to the middle of the lane, or even as far left as the left tire track, depending on the circumstances.

Note that I said you should "merge", not just "move", away from the right side. The difference being that a "merge" requires establishing the right-of-way to move left prior to moving left. Usually that means simply looking back over your left shoulder to make sure it is clear, but it may involve waiting until a motorist slows to let you in. After all, if you don't do that, that motorist may be the one to pass you and cut you off... This is why the left tire track is often the best position. This allows those motorists who are turning right to pass you on YOUR right.

Serge