Living Car Free - The automobile as a tool

There are some car-free people that are opposed to the existence of cars. I don't know if they frequent this forum, but I know one in person. I'm not like that. I just came to the realization that the car, as a tool, is overused.

Some on this forum still own a car, but use it responsibly. They need a car often enough to justify having it. I decided I no longer needed a car.

I made a last-minute decision yesterday to drive to another city, 120 miles away. It's a possible bike ride, but it's January and I'm having some painful health issues.

I rented a car for three days. My total bill including fuel will be less than one payment on my old vehicle, and maybe only 40% more of one month's insurance. I'll only need to rent a car a few times a year, so this is a huge cost savings over owning my own car, even an old paid-for beater.

Driving a car 3.5 miles to work is like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. This weekend, I had need of a sledgehammer, so I rented one. :D

I have long agreed with this point of view. Cars are grossly overused, unfortunately we have built an infrastructure where the sledge hammer is the only tool available most of the time. I have multiple bikes, each one is a tool for different uses.

Aaron :)

I intend to do the same thing in the future. I've done it in the past. It has been over six years since I rented a car. Most of the time I use a taxi. The last time it cost me $50 plus tips for my round trip.

I might drive a few times a year and have a friend who is happy to loan me one of his cars when I have a need... he has 2 and a commercial van that he uses when he needs a bigger hammer but spends most of his time riding to where he needs to go as does his wife.

We are planning to take a family trip across Canada and into the US... we will be driving as I do not believe my wife and daughters are up to riding over 3000 km one way. :)

I intend to do the same thing in the future. I've done it in the past. It has been over six years since I rented a car. Most of the time I use a taxi. The last time it cost me $50 plus tips for my round trip.

This is the second time I've rented a car in my life. The first time was because I had a tiny car, and needed to haul three large-ish people, and three fat dogs 300 miles. I rented a minivan for that trip. I expect I will rent a car a couple times per year. Most of my family lives between 300 and 700 miles away with poor transport options.

I have no idea what my one-way 120-mile trip here would have cost by taxi, then there's the return trip early on Monday... I think renting the car was cheaper and avoided a bigger vehicle (taxi) making *two* round-trips. I doubt the driver would want to stay here for the weekend. :D

I never need to go out of town. All of my trips are across town. Using a taxi for a one-hundred mile trip would cost plenty of money.

My school bus driving job has me taking people all around the state. Thursday two buses took about one hundred people to a ski lodge for a day of skiing. Friday was the same. Nobody would have wanted to pedal a bicycle up a mountain hauling skis or snowboards. At $50 per child some body was making money.

I have no idea what my one-way 120-mile trip here would have cost by taxi, then there's the return trip early on Monday... I think renting the car was cheaper and avoided a bigger vehicle (taxi) making *two* round-trips. I doubt the driver would want to stay here for the weekend. :D

From what cabbies I know have told me, people do make trips like that in taxis, and longer ones. One driver told me that the longest trip he took was from Lansing to Lexingtom, KY--which must be 300 or 400 miles. Trips from Lansing to Detroit and Chicago airports are pretty common. (100 to 150 miles) I think the run to Detroit Metro is about 75 dollars--well worth it if you need to catch a last minute flight that's costing you a few hundred bucks--especially on an expense account.

I'm too cheap to do this, but it's something some carfree people might want to keep in mind.

It's a problem of one-size fits all thinking. Many people buy cars for their most extreme needs, ie an SUV when most of their driving is long distance commuting but they need a Family Truckster to vacation in.

The Zeitgeist movement (http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/) proposes that people save on resources by down playing ownership and just "rent" items or get them from an object library when they need them.

The bike would be a very important part of an appropriate transportation system because it covers your bases with many of your short distance trips.

We are planning to take a family trip across Canada and into the US... we will be driving as I do not believe my wife and daughters are up to riding over 3000 km one way. :)

You should mount up the bikes in a trailer. You drive and they get to enjoy the scenery in the open air. ;)

From what cabbies I know have told me, people do make trips like that in taxis, and longer ones. One driver told me that the longest trip he took was from Lansing to Lexingtom, KY--which must be 300 or 400 miles. Trips from Lansing to Detroit and Chicago airports are pretty common. (100 to 150 miles) I think the run to Detroit Metro is about 75 dollars--well worth it if you need to catch a last minute flight that's costing you a few hundred bucks--especially on an expense account.

I'm too cheap to do this, but it's something some carfree people might want to keep in mind.

I have a deal with one of the local cab companies here, we are just outside the zone pricing from the airport, they could legally charge me by the mile, it would cost me ~$75 to get to the local airport. However they offered me the regular zone price of $30 + a $7.50 "service" charge :D. There are taxis and there are car services. When I travel to my corporate office I use a car service and have used one a couple of times from the larger airport that is just over an hour from my house. It is usually cheaper than a regular by the mile (or fraction thereof) cab service.

Aaron :)

It's a problem of one-size fits all thinking. Many people buy cars for their most extreme needs, ie an SUV when most of their driving is long distance commuting but they need a Family Truckster to vacation in.

I have a few programmer colleagues who have pretty large Ford trucks which they drive to work every day. I asked one why he had such a large vehicle to cart his ass to work every day and he told me that he occasionally goes fishing on weekends. :lol:

I was just about to tell him about some guys I knew whole managed to fit their fishing poles on their bikes. But instead my eyes started to roll... sort of uncontrollably... and I said nothing.

I figured it would be like trying to explain the Big Bang origin of the universe or quantum physics or something :)

From what cabbies I know have told me, people do make trips like that in taxis, and longer ones. One driver told me that the longest trip he took was from Lansing to Lexingtom, KY--which must be 300 or 400 miles. Trips from Lansing to Detroit and Chicago airports are pretty common. (100 to 150 miles) I think the run to Detroit Metro is about 75 dollars--well worth it if you need to catch a last minute flight that's costing you a few hundred bucks--especially on an expense account.

I'm too cheap to do this, but it's something some carfree people might want to keep in mind.

Interesting. It wouldn't have saved me any money, but I wouldn't have had to drive. I don't need a car while I'm here, just to get here and back.

I have a few programmer colleagues who have pretty large Ford trucks which they drive to work every day. I asked one why he had such a large vehicle to cart his ass to work every day and he told me that he occasionally goes fishing on weekends. :lol:

I was just about to tell him about some guys I knew whole managed to fit their fishing poles on their bikes. But instead my eyes started to roll... sort of uncontrollably... and I said nothing.

I figured it would be like trying to explain the Big Bang origin of the universe or quantum physics or something :)

Yeah, two of my co-workers (in IT) have Ford F150 pickups. 4x4 of course. I admit that my last car was a truck, but is was a smaller Nissan with a 4-cylinder engine and manual transmission.

One co-worker actually does some farm work, so I'll give him a pass. The other goes fishing occasionally and tows a boat. His wife has a Ford Explorer that is fully capable of towing a boat. Actually, his previous car, a Taurus, was capable of towing his small boat.

I have a car, it's a useful tool on occasion, even with the cost of insurance, fuel, and the modest purchase price, it is still a viable option for me when compared to the costs of hailing a taxi, or the expense and time needed in renting a car.

Though I still use a car every so often, I haven't driven into work in over a decade. I generally leave my co-workers and friends alone about their driving, in what type of vehicle they drive or how short a distance they may travel when driving.

I have a deal with one of the local cab companies here, we are just outside the zone pricing from the airport, they could legally charge me by the mile, it would cost me ~$75 to get to the local airport. However they offered me the regular zone price of $30 + a $7.50 "service" charge :D. There are taxis and there are car services. When I travel to my corporate office I use a car service and have used one a couple of times from the larger airport that is just over an hour from my house. It is usually cheaper than a regular by the mile (or fraction thereof) cab service.

Aaron :)

Another thing cabbies have told me reminds me of your situation a bit: Railroad companies sometimes use cabs to transport work crews who have been "stranded" at the end of a train run. I guess sometimes these cab rides can be a couple hundred miles or more. But they must be cheaper or more convenient than paying somebody to drive a company car all those miles to pick up a crew.

Yeah, two of my co-workers (in IT) have Ford F150 pickups. 4x4 of course. I admit that my last car was a truck, but is was a smaller Nissan with a 4-cylinder engine and manual transmission.

One co-worker actually does some farm work, so I'll give him a pass. The other goes fishing occasionally and tows a boat. His wife has a Ford Explorer that is fully capable of towing a boat. Actually, his previous car, a Taurus, was capable of towing his small boat.

Can't fish from shore? I imagine he also has a pretty good fish finder too. Don't want to leave too many bass in the lakes over the winter.

Some on this forum still own a car, but use it responsibly. They need a car often enough to justify having it. I decided I no longer needed a car.
I rented a car for three days. My total bill including fuel will be less than one payment on my old vehicle, and maybe only 40% more of one month's insurance. I'll only need to rent a car a few times a year, so this is a huge cost savings over owning my own car, even an old paid-for beater.

Renting a car could be a good alternative to owning so I did the math on my current situation to see how much of an Albatross my 1993 Buick Century is. The car was purchased 30 1/2 months ago for $508.65 including license and tax. Insurance to date has been $2,102.00 with annual license tags at $222.00. Oil changes, muffler and tail pipe replacement and the required E-test came to $1009.95. In this time period because I only use the car to pick-up groceries, visit my bicycle dealer in Toronto and bring clean laundry into work I have only accumulated 14,174 kilometers, (88,007.31 miles). Gasoline for this period should be very close $1,525.00 giving me a grand total of $5,367.60. That works out to $175.99 per month or less than 38 cents per kilometer. I do not know how much car rentals are but my guess is that it would be more then what I have spent so far for the same amount of time. I have seen other safe cars available for similar purchase price and at this point if anything major breaks the Buick is retired. Sometimes the car sits so long the battery goes flat but I have a charger to bring it back to life. If you have a place to park a car, saving something from the crusher may work out cheaper then renting or taxi.

Renting a car could be a good alternative to owning so I did the math on my current situation to see how much of an Albatross my 1993 Buick Century is. The car was purchased 30 1/2 months ago for $508.65 including license and tax. Insurance to date has been $2,102.00 with annual license tags at $222.00. Oil changes, muffler and tail pipe replacement and the required E-test came to $1009.95. In this time period because I only use the car to pick-up groceries, visit my bicycle dealer in Toronto and bring clean laundry into work I have only accumulated 14,174 kilometers, (88,007.31 miles). Gasoline for this period should be very close $1,525.00 giving me a grand total of $5,367.60. That works out to $175.99 per month or less than 38 cents per kilometer. I do not know how much car rentals are but my guess is that it would be more then what I have spent so far for the same amount of time. I have seen other safe cars available for similar purchase price and at this point if anything major breaks the Buick is retired. Sometimes the car sits so long the battery goes flat but I have a charger to bring it back to life. If you have a place to park a car, saving something from the crusher may work out cheaper then renting or taxi.

But there's a good chance that you would travel fewer miles if you didn't have the car. You might either use the bike for more of your trips, or become more efficient (e.g., combining trips). This is one way that not having a car results in savings.

Of course, you can use the bike more and combine trips, even if you have a car. But will you?

Renting a car could be a good alternative to owning so I did the math on my current situation to see how much of an Albatross my 1993 Buick Century is. The car was purchased 30 1/2 months ago for $508.65 including license and tax. Insurance to date has been $2,102.00 with annual license tags at $222.00. Oil changes, muffler and tail pipe replacement and the required E-test came to $1009.95. In this time period because I only use the car to pick-up groceries, visit my bicycle dealer in Toronto and bring clean laundry into work I have only accumulated 14,174 kilometers, (88,007.31 miles). Gasoline for this period should be very close $1,525.00 giving me a grand total of $5,367.60. That works out to $175.99 per month or less than 38 cents per kilometer. I do not know how much car rentals are but my guess is that it would be more then what I have spent so far for the same amount of time. I have seen other safe cars available for similar purchase price and at this point if anything major breaks the Buick is retired. Sometimes the car sits so long the battery goes flat but I have a charger to bring it back to life. If you have a place to park a car, saving something from the crusher may work out cheaper then renting or taxi.

One thing missing from this picture is the repair bill. So far, sounds like you have been lucky, but there's a good chance that some day you'll discover that the starting motor is toast or the alternator needs replacing or maybe even the tranny needs rebuilt.

Sometimes those repairs aren't too bad. Maybe you can fix them yourself. One of the hardest parts about auto repair is figuring out the problem. Is it the starting motor or a relay or the alternator or a weak wire. Sometimes not that easy to figure out.

I guess until then, you can consider yourself lucky and keep on trucking.

But there's a good chance that you would travel fewer miles if you didn't have the car. You might either use the bike for more of your trips, or become more efficient (e.g., combining trips). This is one way that not having a car results in savings.

Of course, you can use the bike more and combine trips, even if you have a car. But will you?

In the same period of time I have logged over 20,000 kilometers on my Bicycles.

One thing missing from this picture is the repair bill. So far, sounds like you have been lucky, but there's a good chance that some day you'll discover that the starting motor is toast or the alternator needs replacing or maybe even the tranny needs rebuilt.

Sometimes those repairs aren't too bad. Maybe you can fix them yourself. One of the hardest parts about auto repair is figuring out the problem. Is it the starting motor or a relay or the alternator or a weak wire. Sometimes not that easy to figure out.

I guess until then, you can consider yourself lucky and keep on trucking.

If the price of repair becomes too much as you have pointed out, the car will go to the wreckers. Then while riding my bike I will keep my eyes open for the next car.

The cabbies here in Seville hate our bicycle infrastructure and bike system (Sevici) because they see them as competition. Someone has been vandalizing the Sevicis by systemactically cutting their saddles with a knife. A lot of fingers are being pointed at the taxi drivers.

Renting a car could be a good alternative to owning so I did the math on my current situation to see how much of an Albatross my 1993 Buick Century is. The car was purchased 30 1/2 months ago for $508.65 including license and tax. Insurance to date has been $2,102.00 with annual license tags at $222.00. Oil changes, muffler and tail pipe replacement and the required E-test came to $1009.95. In this time period because I only use the car to pick-up groceries, visit my bicycle dealer in Toronto and bring clean laundry into work I have only accumulated 14,174 kilometers, (88,007.31 miles). Gasoline for this period should be very close $1,525.00 giving me a grand total of $5,367.60. That works out to $175.99 per month or less than 38 cents per kilometer. I do not know how much car rentals are but my guess is that it would be more then what I have spent so far for the same amount of time. I have seen other safe cars available for similar purchase price and at this point if anything major breaks the Buick is retired. Sometimes the car sits so long the battery goes flat but I have a charger to bring it back to life. If you have a place to park a car, saving something from the crusher may work out cheaper then renting or taxi.

I rented the car for three days at a total cost of about $160 including all insurance. I paid about $45 in gasoline. So, let's call it $200 total.

I'll need to do this maybe twice a year, but sometimes it could be more than three days. Let's be generous and say $700 per year. That's still a bargain and equivalent to two months car-payment on my truck that I sold in November.

Due to some serious legal issues I had a revoked license for almost 10 years. I now currently own a used car and drive to get groceries. I never liked panniers & I like to stock up on 2liter sodas when on sale. I mix up biking and driving. I get almost 30miles to the gallon on my little Honda Civic. My insurance is very cheap even though I have a "few bumps" on my driving record. Having said that I was stuck in traffic the other day & I thought, "man I wish I was on my bike." lol

I rented the car for three days at a total cost of about $160 including all insurance. I paid about $45 in gasoline. So, let's call it $200 total.

I'll need to do this maybe twice a year, but sometimes it could be more than three days. Let's be generous and say $700 per year. That's still a bargain and equivalent to two months car-payment on my truck that I sold in November.


Renting for 3 days, $200.00 = $66.67 / day.
Owning a wreck for 926 days, (30.5 months), $5,367.60 = $5.80 / day.
Only if parking is not an issue, this just seems cheaper then renting.

I rent a car of the right size and shape as I need it. I sometimes move house and use a removal van for all my belongings. A saloon car is not the right tool for this.
Why do some people insist on using cars to hit things. Sledgehammers are better.

Renting for 3 days, $200.00 = $66.67 / day.
Owning a wreck for 926 days, (30.5 months), $5,367.60 = $5.80 / day.
Only if parking is not an issue, this just seems cheaper then renting.

So you're saying that 200 is greater than 5,368? I never did understand the new math!

I went car free about 2 1/2 years ago, and when I did so I way overthought the whole process. I went car free along with a move, so I looked at where to live vs where I worked, and shopping etc, and selected a neighborhood which was within bike range of work and had good public transit connections. I also figured that I would rent a car whenever I needed one and made sure that I was close to a place where I could rent a car. Since my move I have rented 3 times, twice it was a car for a day, and once it was a pick-up truck for 1/2 day. At that rate, taking a cab to the car rental place is a viable option.

At that rate, taking a cab to the car rental place is a viable option.
Last time I rented a truck, I rode over, put the bike in the back of the truck. That actually worked out better than driving over, 'cause U-Haul had no place to park and I wouldn't have been able to fit the car in the truck.

Renting for 3 days, $200.00 = $66.67 / day.
Owning a wreck for 926 days, (30.5 months), $5,367.60 = $5.80 / day.
Only if parking is not an issue, this just seems cheaper then renting.

Well, sure it's cheaper to own if you intend to use a car every day. If you are a person (or a family in my case) that needs a car once or twice per year, the rental option provides a significant savings. Lets say that we rented a car once every six months during those 30.5 months you owned that wreck. Five rentals at a cost of $200 each just saved me $4,367.60.

Renting for 3 days, $200.00 = $66.67 / day.
Owning a wreck for 926 days, (30.5 months), $5,367.60 = $5.80 / day.
Only if parking is not an issue, this just seems cheaper then renting.

As others have already pointed out, the cost per day is higher, but owning sticks you with all of the days, whether you need them or not.

As others have already pointed out, the cost per day is higher, but owning sticks you with all of the days, whether you need them or not.

Yeah, if the math was the big factor in most of our decisions, we'd be living in an entirely different world.

Yeah, if the math was the big factor in most of our decisions, we'd be living in an entirely different world.

The poor understanding of the math in that post was a snapshot of the crazy consumer decisions made by millions of people. If we had to take one class in consumer finances in the 8th grade, this would be a different world indeed.

The poor understanding of the math in that post was a snapshot of the crazy consumer decisions made by millions of people. If we had to take one class in consumer finances in the 8th grade, this would be a different world indeed.

I've got to confess to being a little mathematically challenged myself. It was me who signed up for the 29% credit cards in the 1980s. What was I thinking?

http://www.zipcar.com/

The poor understanding of the math in that post was a snapshot of the crazy consumer decisions made by millions of people. If we had to take one class in consumer finances in the 8th grade, this would be a different world indeed.

I hear you. In 12th grade, I switched from a deadly boring algebra class to a way cool 1/2 term Economics class. One of the best decisions I made in high school.

And for those who wonder, it was the math teacher who was boring, not the class. She had my brother in first period and me in 2nd period and it took her several months to realize we were brothers. She retired at the end of the year.