Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Should I get a personal trainer or coach?

I wonder if I should get a trainer or coach once I have knee replacement. All my riding and exercise has been within my physical limitations. Two of those, my damaged and knocked knees, will be gone, and my posture should be straightened as well. I wonder just what I'll be capable of, and I want to make sure I pull 101 per cent of my abilities out. I think I've done pretty well on my own, but provided I improve as I pray I will, I'll need to get new expectations. A trainer might help me do that.

Comments?

Neil

Are you looking for assistance in technique or is it more along the lines of a structured fitness plan - disciplined levels or goals?

Neil

Are you looking for assistance in technique or is it more along the lines of a structured fitness plan - disciplined levels or goals?

Probably both. Physical therapy after surgery is going to help me walk normally again. And I should be riding better as well.

In my experience, athletic trainers can be surprisingly knowledgeable and their help can be invaluable.

"Personal trainers" are a mixed bag. A handful of them really know what they're doing, but most seem to have just hung out a shingle and posess no real abilities.

Cycling coaches should generally be avoided. Speaking as someone who spent years making a living at coaching track racers, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that most cycling coaches are scumbags who are making it up as they go along and should be avoided like the plague.

BTW, I did have informal coaching from a long-departed Bike Forums member, Uncadan. He was captain for his team on the MS City to Shore, and I'd not have been able to ride a century without his help. That was back in 2007.

Do what you do for a year or so. Then if you are unhappy, then go with a trainer. Heck, for all you know, you could be doing things very right as is, but only held back by the physicals.

BTW, I did have informal coaching from a long-departed Bike Forums member, Uncadan. He was captain for his team on the MS City to Shore, and I'd not have been able to ride a century without his help. That was back in 2007.

IMO, "informal coaching" is the way it should be. When I started out, way back in the day, that's the way it worked: you found a good racer, usually in your club, who took the time to show you the ropes and correct your mistakes. That worked because A) the guy didn't have a financial incentive, and B) because it's really not that complicated. A and B are actually intertwined, because in order to continue charging you, the professional coach has to continually come up with new things to teach you, whether those things are important (or even exist) or not. I think that may be the reason we are seeing cycling "gurus" these days: we've finally managed to make riding a bicycle seem so complicated that we can hold out certain individuals as "keepers of the great secrets" - and of course, those people expect to receive big dollars to doll out those secrets to worthy acolytes.

Short version: one of the things that made me reconsider my career choice was the realization that some of the riders I was coaching had learned enough from me that they didn't need me anymore. They were essentially paying me to yell at them from the infield. So I have a low opinion of the breed in general. Not that I'm an old bitter drunk or anything...

Physical Therapist yes. This is someone that knows how to get the most out of corrective surgery that you're getting and knows the difference between "good pain" and "bad pain" while you're recovering.
A cycling coach/ fitness trainer for you at this time would be a rare person. IMO it seems to me that trainers use empirical methods to achieve results. Success would depend on how well your body fits into the model they would use. When you head back to the weight room a refresher course of the value of good form is a good idea. Beyond that for now I think it's more a matter of motivation. Would "coaching" help you? I can't answer that.

IMO, "informal coaching" is the way it should be. When I started out, way back in the day, that's the way it worked: you found a good racer, usually in your club, who took the time to show you the ropes and correct your mistakes. That worked because A) the guy didn't have a financial incentive, and B) because it's really not that complicated. A and B are actually intertwined, because in order to continue charging you, the professional coach has to continually come up with new things to teach you, whether those things are important (or even exist) or not. I think that may be the reason we are seeing cycling "gurus" these days: we've finally managed to make riding a bicycle seem so complicated that we can hold out certain individuals as "keepers of the great secrets" - and of course, those people expect to receive big dollars to doll out those secrets to worthy acolytes.

Short version: one of the things that made me reconsider my career choice was the realization that some of the riders I was coaching had learned enough from me that they didn't need me anymore. They were essentially paying me to yell at them from the infield. So I have a low opinion of the breed in general. Not that I'm an old bitter drunk or anything...

I should clarify. Uncadan not only "coached" in a sense, but he's also the man who made me a cyclist. I taught myself to ride. Uncadan taught me cycling. While I'm not looking for that level of intensity this time, I might need help deciding on goals and planning the achieving of them.

Physical Therapist yes. This is someone that knows how to get the most out of corrective surgery that you're getting and knows the difference between "good pain" and "bad pain" while you're recovering.
A cycling coach/ fitness trainer for you at this time would be a rare person. IMO it seems to me that trainers use empirical methods to achieve results. Success would depend on how well your body fits into the model they would use. When you head back to the weight room a refresher course of the value of good form is a good idea. Beyond that for now I think it's more a matter of motivation. Would "coaching" help you? I can't answer that.

I will be going through physical therapy, as an inpatient, here:

http://www.mainlinehealth.org/bmrh

They will be getting me to the point I can walk, and setting follow up physical therapy. But that's their goal. They aren't going to help me plan how to improve as a cyclist. In fact, they might discourage some of the stuff I want to do, simply because it's their job to say NO. Yes, I'll have to be careful with my prosthetic knees, but they should function better than the set God gave me. It follows that I should be able to do more with them. I want help planning out how to do more.

In short, I don't want to go through major surgery, months of rehab, lifestyle changes, medical bills, etc, only to remain the fat slow guy that one Bike Forums poster described as "tooling around with a camera." That's not why I'm doing this. I want to make sure I'm pushing myself 101 per cent.

I should clarify. Uncadan not only "coached" in a sense, but he's also the man who made me a cyclist. I taught myself to ride. Uncadan taught me cycling. While I'm not looking for that level of intensity this time, I might need help deciding on goals and planning the achieving of them.

Maybe a bit off topic, but what did he do to make your a cyclist? How did he help you ride a century?

Personal trainers are a lot like bikes, you need to find one that is a good fit. Like anything else, do some shopping by asking questions about qualifications, training experience, and any areas of specialization that they may have. Find one who listens to your goals and has a real plan to realize it. Remember, this person works for you. If possible, find one that is into cycling themselves. If nothing else, find some exercises that are cycling related along with some core training, and have them show you how to do them correctly. I have been lucky enough to have such a trainer, and it has made a huge difference for me.

I used a personal trainer last fall, before heading south. I did it mostly to learn proper form when using weights and doing other exercises. She was very helpful to me. She also had me do intervals, which I know are good for you, but I hate them. :( Maybe once a week I'll go for a short ride, varying between out of breath fast and slow, but I hate doing that too.

Maybe a bit off topic, but what did he do to make your a cyclist? How did he help you ride a century?

Dan was the first Clydesdale I ever met, which in itself was significant - I hadn't gotten into my head entirely the concept that there were larger size cyclists. We met through another forum, and he volunteered to meet me for a lesson. I don't think he understood that when I said I was a complete beginner, I was a complete beginner. During that first lesson, I knocked him and his bike over. I was using the bike as much as a scooter as anything. When we had done Dan told me I could contact him any time for advice. I found out later as he drove home he thought "What have I gotten myself into?!?"

Well, a lot of the stuff we discuss on this forum - goal setting, nutrition when riding, conditioning, training, motivation, etc - are all things I learned from Dan, either from email, his blog posts, or when we got together for a ride or hike. Yes, he did ride with me again. He also helped me find the confidence to do the sort of things I've done. Lets face it; most people who look at me don't think I can do the sort of riding I do. Dan never doubted me.

I can't thank Dan enough for his help, and being a modest man he won't take credit, so I've been paying forward when and where I can here, applying what I've learned from him and on my own. For instance, I doubt I would have ridden with Chefissac back in July, or been able to help him as I did, without the experience with my coach. Ditto Sayre Kulp - one reason I gave him my old cycling gear was to help him get rid of the "fat man's hooks in him" and see himself as a success. Inviting me to ride on his MS City to Shore team was Dan's way of doing that for me.

Here I am with my coach at the first rest stop on the MS City to Shore in 2007.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/67502_1555466939075_1607271639_1299311_7384371_n.jpg

Good luck with the knee surgery. I've asked the orthopedist when I'll need replacement on my bad knee and he said "you'll know". I hope that you are 1- more able to carry on your daily activities, 2- get the bonus of improved cycling.

I am a firm believer in physical therapy / therapists.

Coaches - I read books, magazines, forums, watch better riders and get well-meant advice/coaching from people I ride with. A good coach will be able to work with you as an individual and not just echo back what he read somewhere or what works for 99% of all people without understanding "why" it works. What works for a 135-pound fit 30-year-old male may not work so well for an overweight 55-year-old with a stiff knee, missing hamstrings, full-time career, insomnia, and various assorted health issues (me). What I would want would be a coach who had experience adapting the standard advice as appropriate to meet MY goals; and to give feedback whether those goals are realistic and what I would probably have to do to meet those goals.

And I don't know of ANY coaches that just want to have people argue with them or ignore their advice whether they are paid or not. :)

She also had me do intervals, which I know are good for you, but I hate them. :( Maybe once a week I'll go for a short ride, varying between out of breath fast and slow, but I hate doing that too. Intervals are mentally tough. Hills can achieve many of the same results without seeming so much like "training".

Nice story, Neil_B, thanks for sharing.

Personally, I'm with Mr. Beans on give yourself time to heal before going full bore. Whether you feel that is 6 months or longer. Once you get the bug to get moving, things will fall into place. Where you plan on doing therapy, go and talk with them NOW about your plans and goals. Find the ONE therapist you think you will trust.

With my own knee, I had a great therapist. And if I didn't trust him, I wouldn't be using him for my back recovery now.

Personally, I'm with Mr. Beans on give yourself time to heal before going full bore. Whether you feel that is 6 months or longer. Once you get the bug to get moving, things will fall into place. Where you plan on doing therapy, go and talk with them NOW about your plans and goals. Find the ONE therapist you think you will trust.

With my own knee, I had a great therapist. And if I didn't trust him, I wouldn't be using him for my back recovery now.

That will be key, I think. I struggled to persuade my doctor that I shouldn't be satisfied, wouldn't be satisfied, with walking up and down stairs. Too many people say "Don't." I say "Don't be afraid. Do."

I want to backpack, I want to hike distances, I want to bike tour and ride centuries. I want to ride with Homeyba again and feel I'm rising to his level instead of his dropping to mine. I'll find someone who will help me do these things.

Intervals are mentally tough. Hills can achieve many of the same results without seeming so much like "training".

Yeah, but no hills in Texas. Only wind. :)


Nice story, Neil_B, thanks for sharing.

Yes, thanks Neil.

Maybe you will end up with more than one person functioning as your coach as you get back into riding, depending on your needs. I would like a cycling coach too but no one around here seems suited to the role. Back home I have a friend who is a cyclist and rides far faster than I do and is my age. Though never an Athena she is a ex-smoker and about five years ago quit smoking and started getting into shape. I am going to do a few rides with her next summer and hope she can help me step it up a bit. I did my only charity ride with her and some of her coworkers. I kept up for a few miles out of the 50 but then let them drop me at my request. And this was her first long ride after breaking a knee cap a month and a half before.

I wonder if I should get a trainer or coach once I have knee replacement. All my riding and exercise has been within my physical limitations. Two of those, my damaged and knocked knees, will be gone, and my posture should be straightened as well. I wonder just what I'll be capable of, and I want to make sure I pull 101 per cent of my abilities out. I think I've done pretty well on my own, but provided I improve as I pray I will, I'll need to get new expectations. A trainer might help me do that.

Comments?

Do you think your new coach will know what you're capable of and what your expectations should be, when one of your physical limitations is a thing of the past? I'm sure you can figure it out on your own, but do you think a trainer will know at the beginning?

I've known a couple of people that had knee replacements, and their recovery and ability varied considerably (and varied considerably from what they expected, I might add.) With that in mind, I wouldn't really worry about the coach or whatever until you're well past the surgery and feeling relatively "normal" again.

And one observation from observing those people is that every pound of body weight you can drop beforehand will make things that much easier when you're recuperating.

As others have mentioned, there are quite a few people who call themselves "coaches" or "trainers" who don't know the first thing about either. I think you'll have better luck finding someone who knows what they're doing if you spend some time educating yourself, first. You might read books such as Joe Friel's The Cyclist's Training Bible (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1934030201/) or Training and Racing with a Power Meter (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1934030554/). Many coaches use these, or other similar books, as the foundation for their training suggestions so it doesn't hurt to be familiar with them.

It might also be a good idea to read a book, setup your own training program, then try to stick with it for 4-8 weeks before you consult a coach. You may find that you're not the sort of person who likes to stick to the sort of regimented training schedule that most coaches/trainers seem to favor. Better to find this out before you invest in expensive training. If you can create a schedule and stick with it, a coach can help you fine-tune it if you're not getting precisely the results you want.

In any event, being better educated will help you separate the wheat from the chaff when you get around to hiring a trainer or coach...

I've known a couple of people that had knee replacements, and their recovery and ability varied considerably (and varied considerably from what they expected, I might add.) With that in mind, I wouldn't really worry about the coach or whatever until you're well past the surgery and feeling relatively "normal" again.

And one observation from observing those people is that every pound of body weight you can drop beforehand will make things that much easier when you're recuperating.

The problem I have is that I don't know what "normal" is supposed to be. I've been knocked-kneed from birth, and I've only been active for six years. Usually people have knee replacement done so they can get back to the lifestyle they had before. My "before" was always limited.

But perhaps I am worrying too much. After all, I pushed myself with bad knees. I can push myself with replaced joints.

In your shoes I would probably want a physical therapist or - better - an MD, familiar with cycling and knee replacements. Your odds of finding a trainer who understands both topics is slim, and the odds of finding a cycling coach with the same experience has got to be close to nil.

In your shoes I would probably want a physical therapist or - better - an MD, familiar with cycling and knee replacements. Your odds of finding a trainer who understands both topics is slim, and the odds of finding a cycling coach with the same experience has got to be close to nil.

My surgeon unfortunately isn't a cyclist or used to doing bilaterals on tough Clydesdales. He cautioned me about prematurely wearing out the joints by too much riding. That strikes me as a needless fear.

Yeah, but no hills in Texas. Only wind. :)
Sorry, beg to differ. North Texas has plenty of hills in Fort Worth and west. Aledo, Weatherford, Springtown.
Then there are rides in the "Hill Country" around Austin.
The Fort Davis Cyclefest in West Texas features plenty of climbing. I hear the scenery is gorgeous.

I've said many times that you will need to re-define normal. What is normal? Normal a day ago, a month? Year? In your case normal will change a lot. Lets get you well into recovery and revisit coach or trainer. Either one will have their hands full, of this I do not doubt!

Sorry, beg to differ. North Texas has plenty of hills in Fort Worth and west. Aledo, Weatherford, Springtown.
Then there are rides in the "Hill Country" around Austin.
The Fort Davis Cyclefest in West Texas features plenty of climbing. I hear the scenery is gorgeous.

Yeah. My San Antonio friend always gets on me for complaining about no hills in Texas. I'll revise. There are no hills in the Valley.