Tandem Cycling - New Tandem rider - Cannondale Road 2

My girlfriend and I decided to buy a tandem after test riding one a few weeks back. It's a Medium/Small Road 2 Cannondale. The fit of the bike works as I'm 5' 7" 140 and she is 5' 3" and less lbs than me. We did swap out the stock saddles and I replaced the FSA bar with a Shimano Pro round. I've never had this much fun on a bike... I've done a fair amount of riding with uspspro and his wife on their Calfee. Now I know why they are always smiling.

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7351/p1290024.jpg

Congratulations you will have a great time with your girlfriend. We own two of these for our adult children to ride, I think they are one of the best values in tandems around. We did install thudbuster seat posts for the stokers and both of our daughter in laws think it made for a better ride. Enjoy your rides together, my wife and I feel we have had some incredible accomplishments on our tandem that we did together as a team.

Thanks! I did a fair amount of shopping around but more or less knew we would get the Cannondale based on it's specs. For the price it had everything I was looking for. My double century road bike also has 6703 shifters and the same 52/39/30 chain rings. We live in Silicon Valley with plenty of steep climbs so I also wanted a bike with disc brakes for the descents. There are bolts for a fourth bottle mount on the underside of the down tube but I don't feel very comfortable with having a bottle so close to the front wheel. It's 38lbs so I mentally tell myself 19lb bike x2.

You can always buy a Minoura handle bar mount for bottle cage for pilot. Face it outward on the bar.
Also can do it for stoker but facing cage/bottle inward on her bar near stem juncture so her knees wont hit the cage.
Then if you want, pop out the center pull-up stopper on the bottle and insert the correct diameter and length plastic tube (available at hardware store) for drinking without having to remove the bottle.
Been doing it that way for decades . . .

On one of our custom tandems, had a bottle mount on downside of the downtube and it never caused a bottle to pop out and hit the front wheel.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

We are also proud owners of an RT2 and really like the bike. If your stoker finds the stock stem to be too short, as we did, a really nice replacement can be found at Tandems East. We put a Minoura bottle cage holder on the stoker stem and mounted a water bottle cage there. Also we installed a Thudbuster on the rear seat. Hope you enjoy yours as much as we do ours.

Is it the Control Tech stem? We did find the stock stoker stem a bit small as it's already at the minimum insertion point. She was going to give it a few more weeks and see how it feels.

We got in 35 and 42 miles over the weekend and 3 bottles was fine. I have a 50oz Camelbak and a couple Platypus folding bladders as well that I use during the summer months.

I use that lower front cage on our '10 C'dale RT2 on a regular basis. I put a short bottle in it and have no problem with it hitting the tire despite ridding on some pretty rough roads. We also went with a longer stoker stem from Mel at Tandems East...it is a Control Tech stem. We really like this RT2 particularly in the steeps because that huge front fork is rock solid and the Disc brakes are confidence inspiring on the twisty downhills.
The only weak point on ours, that I would encourage everyone to be on the offence with, is the captain's eccentric. If yours has the same sorry tiny 'c' clip used to catch the self extracting allen-head bolt, then I would replace or modify the eccentric before the 'c' clip gives out on you at the worst possible time. The 'c' clip on ours self destructed the second time I tried to adjust the timing chain. I modified our eccentric with a small amount of machine work and a small steel plate...it now looks and acts like the modified and bullet-proof one that Tandems East sells.

Bill J

I do not use the water bottle mount on the front of the down tube. It is quite hard to reach and your bottle also gets very dirty there.
We carry an extra 2 bottles behind the stoker seat like a lot of the triathletes do.

One other thing to check with the CDale Road 2. We picked up a 2011 model in October. One thing that really bothered me was a clanging rattle which I couldn't figure out. Turns out that Cannondale still puts on a brass fitting (semi-circular) cable guide for a drum brake under the boom and the stoker's cranks, and there is significant slop which allows it to move around freely. I removed it and inserted a small piece of surgical tubing as a space, while still allowing the brass cable guide for the FD to rotate.

Thanks for the helpful info. I haven't removed the cassette yet but I'm assuming it's a Shimano/Sram hub. The backside of the cassette had a CA10 sticker on the 32t teeth. I have a few different 11-28 Sram 1070 and 1090 I might try out to tighten up the gear inch jumps.

Wow! That bike's gorgeous! Enjoy the ride.

I swapped the 11-32 IRD cassette with a Red 1090 11-28. It's a bit noisy due to the Red hollow design but it shifts decently and the jumps in gearing are not as drastic throughout the middle of the cassette. Last night we got in a nice 1.5 hr/1000' 25 mile ride after work so we could test the change. It's about the same as what I note on my single bike, mainly the bigger gap of the 19 to 22 change on the Sram.

I was a Campy guy for a few years but their triple shifting (Record 2006 era) lagged behind what Shimano offers with the 6703 levers and front derailleur. I wasn't sure if I could toss the chain around like I do on my single but it's been fantastic on the tandem. I'll have to see how Campagnolo looks next year when the 11 speed Athena triple comes out.

I'll have to see how Campagnolo looks next year when the 11 speed Athena triple comes out.

Campagnolo is coming out with an 11-speed triple? I Googled this, and couldn't find any info. I'd love to have an 11-speed Campy FD for my Campy 11-speed triple set up. I have to use a Shimano because the Campy triple FD cages are too wide for an 11-speed chain.

A user on the roadbikereview forum who is overseas had access to the brochure that Campy had available for Taichung Bike Week. In the thread where he mentioned riding Campy EPS Electronic shifting he also posted:
--
Chainring - 30/39/52
Crank Length - 170, 172.5, 175
Tech - Power Torque
Weight - 900

Colors are Deep Black or Bright Silver
It appears to be Alloy as there is no mention of carbon, nor is any sort of weave visible.
medium and long cage models. The long cage will allow you to use the 12-29 cassette.
--

Carbon and Ultra Torque would be nice, but anything is better than nothing. I was a firm believer in Campy's 53/42/30 as I used the 42 constantly but after spending time with Shimano's 52/39/30 I've changed my opinion. The front shifting though would have to be drastically improved for me to want to jump ship back. Shimano lets you shove the chain around from 30 to 39 without a hiccup. With Campy and 2008 era Chorus levers/comp triple front going from granny to middle was good but not great.

Chainring - 30/39/52
Crank Length - 170, 172.5, 175
Tech - Power Torque
Weight - 900


medium and long cage models. The long cage will allow you to use the 12-29 cassette.
--

Carbon and Ultra Torque would be nice, but anything is better than nothing. I was a firm believer in Campy's 53/42/30 as I used the 42 constantly but after spending time with Shimano's 52/39/30 I've changed my opinion. The front shifting though would have to be drastically improved for me to want to jump ship back. Shimano lets you shove the chain around from 30 to 39 without a hiccup. With Campy and 2008 era Chorus levers/comp triple front going from granny to middle was good but not great.

The 11-speed RD now will work with a 12-29 cassette and a triple, so the need for a longer cage is not so critical.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6028/5895912619_847bd04cd1_z.jpg

An Ultra-Torque crank would be nice for a tandem, but presumably they are not making a tandem version, and the cranks would need be modified for those wanting Campy cranks. The part that I am most interested in is the 11-speed FD.

The Cannondale Crest bikes are so vibrant. Good choice. One of these was almost what we purchased, the hold up was a dealer that was impossible to work with. Sounds like a great bike for the intended use and team. Hope you enjoy it for a long time.

PK

A user on the roadbikereview forum who is overseas had access to the brochure that Campy had available for Taichung Bike Week. In the thread where he mentioned riding Campy EPS Electronic shifting he also posted:
--

Aha!, I found the thread you mentioned (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/i-rode-eps-267503.html). Interestingly, Campy is making Athena in an EPS version. So, there will be an 11-speed Athena triple, and an Athena EPS double. It looks like one small step away to Athena 11-speed EPS triple!

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/flatlander_48/Campagnolo%20EPS%20-%20Taichung%202011/CampagnoloBikeWeekBrochure0007-1.jpg

We did our first longer ride with steeper climbs yesterday. Still playing with fit for the stoker position, mainly optimal saddle height. 30x28 was low enough though I will try the 11-28 1070 cassette as the 1090 is not as smooth shifting as I would like (it isn't on my single either).

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9371/photo2rs.jpg

Stoker is camera shy so no picture of us on the bike just yet.

http://www.strava.com/runs/3888295

We normally use a 12-25 on our tandem. It shifts great and I like the 16t cog for the flats. The 16 is usually the first to go when you start going to the wider ratio cassettes.

That looks like the original stoker stem on your bike. Of course I don't know if your stoker is happy with it, but that is the first thing we changed out on our LS CDale RT2 as it was way too short for my stoker of 5' 4". I recommend the Control Tech Oversized Stem (in 31.6/31.8) that Mel of TandemsEast carries. BTW -- When I called him to order, saying I needed to replace the stoker stem, he completed my sentence by basically saying the original stem is not worth much.

www.tandemseast.com

What DAST said! The stoker compartment on the 'Dale is long so for most stokers the stem is too short.

I mentioned the Control Tech stem as an option to her but she said to hold off and let's see how things feel after a few more weeks. I put on an Ultegra 11-28 cassette as I need the Red cassette for the single bike.

I notice the first mile or so on my single bike my hips are swinging like Elvis until I get used to it again after piloting the Tandem.

We did our first longer ride with steeper climbs yesterday. Still playing with fit for the stoker position, mainly optimal saddle height. 30x28 was low enough though I will try the 11-28 1070 cassette as the 1090 is not as smooth shifting as I would like (it isn't on my single either).



Your 1070 and 1090 cassettes are both 11-28, but the higher end 1090 cassette (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/components/sram/cassettes.1735.html) does not shift as smoothly?

LOL that a litmus test of a Bay Area cyclist would be the ability to immediately identify the location of your photo at Robert's Market (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=woodside,+ca&hl=en&ll=37.429615,-122.253979&spn=0.001182,0.002199&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,72.070313&hnear=Woodside,+San+Mateo,+California&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=37.42962,-122.254053&panoid=e-DiJUWmMud5TyvyUd4zPw&cbp=12,236.89,,0,12.44), the hub of South Bay cycling.

Must the the open glide tooth layout on the 1090 with a few missing teeth on each cog. It's the same thing when the Red cassette is on the single bike. Noisy, shifts not quite as precise but it's lighter...

I didn't like the 1090 on the tandem either.

but I do like the XX!

The jumps on the 10-spd 11-32 don't bother us at all really.

We tried the 11-28 (with a 28t inner ring), and found that we ended up shifting 2 gears at a time, many of the times, as the momentum swings on the tandem are so big. With the 11-28, we ended up shifting a lot... especially on Mt. Tam double.... those damn rollers had me shifting like crazy. We still shift a lot with the 11-32, but a little bit less.

Also, I like having the 11 & 32 cogs for use with the middle ring, so I can keep the front on the middle ring for rolling terrain, and still have significant range.

How was climbing Pierce and Eden? Did you guys do it seated/standing? How was your gearing/cadence? More importantly, what did your stoker think about hitting some steeper climbs?

Mt. Eden and Pierce were difficult but manageable near the end of a long ride. I miss the lack of power on the Garmin 500 display as 'stomping real hard' is not the same as on my single bikes. No standing yet, cadence for stoker is around my preferred range of 68-72. We hit the Steven's Canyon Hill Sprint at about 90 cadence and she mentioned it's too fast to offer much help. Stoker also said don't say how much longer the climb is only when it's time to stop pedaling hard.

The XX cassette looks nice, if not pricey. I'm sure if shifts much better than the IRD cassette since it has fewer prime numbered cogs. :lol:

Mt. Eden and Pierce were difficult but manageable near the end of a long ride. I miss the lack of power on the Garmin 500 display as 'stomping real hard' is not the same as on my single bikes. No standing yet, cadence for stoker is around my preferred range of 68-72. We hit the Steven's Canyon Hill Sprint at about 90 cadence and she mentioned it's too fast to offer much help. Stoker also said don't say how much longer the climb is only when it's time to stop pedaling hard.

The XX cassette looks nice, if not pricey. I'm sure if shifts much better than the IRD cassette since it has fewer prime numbered cogs. :lol:


Yeah, we are a little more high cadence.

That's a great tandem. We have test driven it twice and will probably purchase one this spring. I appreciate all the information in this thread. :thumb:

Anyone in southern CA who is looking to sell a Cannondale M/S tandem, please get in touch with me. :tandem:

Since we have been riding the tandem more, I've been noticing some fit issues and my comfort level on the bike after 40 miles or so. I lined up my road bike with the tandem next to each other trying to get the bottom brackets as close to even as possible. I can't really do it on geometry alone since the eccentric messes up where the bb is on the tandem. The saddle set back on the tandem is quite a bit farther behind the bottom bracket than my single bike. I moved the saddle forward but will probably need a 0 degree setback post. Is a carbon post like a 3T Doric ok to use with the stoker stem clamped to it or should I stick with an alloy Thomson? I'll also need to change the stock 9cm stem with a 10cm and lower it quite a bit to match my single bike shifters position.

We ride the same model tandem as you. I have a zero set back Thomson seat post and can't quite get my usual BB set back (3") with it. But it is near enough though that I haven't bothered to swap it yet.
Also even after quite a few years on tandems I am still not as comfortable on the saddle as on a solo bike. This is even with everything set up the same.

Many times I believe the comfort is not as much about bike fit as a different riding style of single vs tandem. We have our Calfee set up to duplicate our singles almost exactly. Both the tandem and singles are both carbon and we both feel the tandem is a better ride for smoothness. However on a tandem you are tied into each other and don't make the subtle body movements as regularly as you due on a single to relieve muscles and tension that develops during the ride. I also believe you usually don't take the the short standing breaks as often and over the course of a long ride these differences become apparent. Seat selection can also make a difference and we have Sella An-anotomica on the tandem due the decreased movements and feel the weight penalty is worth the comfort. Almost all of our tandem friends whom do long rides and multiple day rides have adopted these saddles. Also as a captain you are doing more upper body work with a tandem. BTW we have two of these tandems in the family and they are great bikes and are a very good value.

To put it bluntly, I have a saddle sore that I think is being caused by the seat being too far behind the bottom bracket with the stock Cannondale 31.6 post that looks like it has a 25mm setback. I've since moved the saddle a lot farther up and will get a better idea this weekend on the next long ride. The cranks for the captain are 172.5 and I have 170 on my other bikes, that's easily fixed with seat post height. I have noticed I don't stand as often but have made an effort for quick out of saddle breaks.

I can ride my single for an hour without even noticing my "seat", but do a seated climb on the tandem for an hour (or grind into the Palm Springs wind for an hour ) and I'm in real discomfort, recoverable fortunately. We also use Selle Anatomica saddles which we really like, but with any saddle the overall fit and the specific install of the saddle (tilt and tension) are really important.

The best luck I have had with saddles was to visit the local Specialized dealer who sat me on a memory foam device that measured the distance between my sit bones. Although I am 6' tall and weigh 200# my sit bones were among the most narrow they had ever measured. I bought the seat in the width indicated by the test and have more comfort than on any other seat. In the past when a saddle caused soreness and numbness in my legs I assumed a big guy like me needed a wider saddle with more padding. Turns out to be the worst thing I could do. I think Trek and other companies now have similar measuring devices and would recommend a fitting before springing for another saddle.

To adjust the fore and aft of the seat, sit on the bike with a helper holding you up. Get into your normal position and hold one leg with the pedal in the 90 deg. position. Have a helper drop a plumb line from your knee and the line should just hit the end of the crank. Some folks measure from the knee joint where the line should bisect the pedal spindle, but either way works. Adjust fore or aft until you get it right on. Make sure the saddle is level. I actually adjust mine with a level sitting on top to be sure. Hop on and ride for awhile and make micro-adjustments as you ride if needed.

Hi Bostic, et al.

So my wife and I just bought our first tandem about two weeks ago, and it happens to also be a RT2 in M/S. We've only had time for two basic shakedown rides. Overall, our basic fitting has got us in the right areas on the bike. So that's awesome and we're very excited to begin exploring the pacific NW together.

The area where I'm struggling is with the disk-brakes (All my singles are still rim-brake in nature) and stopping power / leaver pull. Our first shakedown consisted of some wet/muddy trail cross-country riding (raining & snowing at the same time!) and our second also happened during a "wintery mix". In both cases, I think the disks were wet, but not muddy. In both cases, it felt like my breaks were soft or sloppy where I guess I was expecting more bite.

Is this more an over expectation of breaking power on disk on my behalf, or rather, the fact that it's the nature of tandem riding? We weigh in at about 315 # so not feather weight, but hardly Clydesdale/Athena (no offense intended).

so I appeal to you, the wisdom of the internet, please help me figure this out!

Thanks!

Hi Bostic, et al.

So my wife and I just bought our first tandem about two weeks ago, and it happens to also be a RT2 in M/S. We've only had time for two basic shakedown rides. Overall, our basic fitting has got us in the right areas on the bike. So that's awesome and we're very excited to begin exploring the pacific NW together.

The area where I'm struggling is with the disk-brakes (All my singles are still rim-brake in nature) and stopping power / leaver pull. Our first shakedown consisted of some wet/muddy trail cross-country riding (raining & snowing at the same time!) and our second also happened during a "wintery mix". In both cases, I think the disks were wet, but not muddy. In both cases, it felt like my breaks were soft or sloppy where I guess I was expecting more bite.

Is this more an over expectation of breaking power on disk on my behalf, or rather, the fact that it's the nature of tandem riding? We weigh in at about 315 # so not feather weight, but hardly Clydesdale/Athena (no offense intended).

so I appeal to you, the wisdom of the internet, please help me figure this out!

Thanks!
make sure you have taken up any slack in the brake cables but do not take up enough that you start to actuate the caliper. At this point you need to adjust the pads with the adjuster knobs starting with the spoke side first until they are as close as possible without rubbing. You may need to true the rotors to get the best braking action to get the pads as close as possible. Properly adjusted the twin disc braking is very powerful and positive.

That's a great tandem. We have test driven it twice and will probably purchase one this spring. I appreciate all the information in this thread. :thumb:

We've also tested the Cdale RT2 a couple of times and are thinking about pulling the trigger real soon. Can't wait to get past that awkward learning stage on the tandem.


... The area where I'm struggling is with the disk-brakes ... it felt like my breaks were soft or sloppy where I guess I was expecting more bite ...

Although I don't have a tandem (yet), I do a lot of mountain biking and have some experience with disc brakes, and from my experience there is a break-in period. Assuming that the cabels are adjusted corrected as akexpress mentioned, it sounds like they just aren't broken in yet. And if your first rides are in really cold weather with a potentially wet rotor, I'd suspect that you're barely breaking them in yet. Don't give up hope. Take it out on a few dry days and I bet that brake feeling will improve quite a bit in the near future.



... We weigh in at about 315 # so not feather weight, but hardly Clydesdale/Athena (no offense intended).

Since we're about be get a tandem and we'll be a 415# couple, I'll have to keep my eye on you. :)

I had a bit of a time getting the BB7's dialed in on the C'dale when new...that is getting them quiet and drag free. They had very effective braking power after just a few short hard brake-in rides...in dry conditions. Best advice I can offer is, since your brake-in was done in wet dirty conditions is, pull the pads and clean them to insure there is no dirt or tiny rocks in them, wipe down the rotors, and then go ride hard for a little while in dry conditions. Then get on the Avid website and get their instructions for how to properly adjust their BB7 brakes....follow directions exactly as they suggest. I would be real surprised if they don't come good in short order...good luck
Bill J

I had a bit of a time getting the BB7's dialed in on the C'dale when new...that is getting them quiet and drag free. They had very effective braking power after just a few short hard brake-in rides...in dry conditions. Best advice I can offer is, since your brake-in was done in wet dirty conditions is, pull the pads and clean them to insure there is no dirt or tiny rocks in them, wipe down the rotors, and then go ride hard for a little while in dry conditions. Then get on the Avid website and get their instructions for how to properly adjust their BB7 brakes....follow directions exactly as they suggest. I would be real surprised if they don't come good in short order...good luck
Bill J

Thanks for the tips guys, w/ my wife's crazy schedule, I'll be putting on some miles this week. The weather seems to have dried up for the moment, so I'm hoping for some good brake-in time on the disk's. I'll follow up with the Avid site per your suggestion!

follow up question!
On the RT2, what is the geometry?! I cannot find this information anywhere and it doesn't seem to be in the user manual... I'm specifically looking for the head-tube angle / fork rake.

thanks again everyone!

... On the RT2, what is the geometry?!

http://thaicannasia.com/sites/cannasia.com/files/bike/geo/images/11_geo_tandem.gif

Hope that helps.

http://thaicannasia.com/sites/cannasia.com/files/bike/geo/images/11_geo_tandem.gif

Hope that helps.

Dude, where TF did you find that? Gnashing of teeth, rending of hair is happening here!

Eye Captain...We have a lot of experience with Avids in the wet. Mostly off-road, sometimes serious off-road terrain and other times less technical. For me, the Avids change between conditions. They are a far better and firmer brake in the dry than in the wet. Regardless though, dry or wet, off-road they will out perform rim brakes.

PK

Dude, where TF did you find that? Gnashing of teeth, rending of hair is happening here!

"Make friends with the inter-web and it will treat you well." :)

Eye Captain...We have a lot of experience with Avids in the wet. Mostly off-road, sometimes serious off-road terrain and other times less technical. For me, the Avids change between conditions. They are a far better and firmer brake in the dry than in the wet. Regardless though, dry or wet, off-road they will out perform rim brakes.

PK

PMK, so on disk-brake break-in period, what should I expect? and what is the best way to bring them into full potential?

Thanks!

Oh, you're one of the Payne guys?! I'm just cluing into your tag. The video looks like you guys had a fun ride! I love that it more or less rained the entire Oregon ride. So typical!

Oh, you're one of the Payne guys?! I'm just cluing into your tag. The video looks like you guys had a fun ride! I love that it more or less rained the entire Oregon ride. So typical!

Yeah, that's me. I'm the one that put the video together, my brother was just along for the ride. :)

As for raining through all of Oregon, actually it was only day 2 (which was in WA) and day 4 (in OR and finishing in Florence). The weather was perfect for the other 9 days. Hoping to make the trek again sometime.

That is a great bike! My wife and I rented that same bike while on vacation one year, and that's what got us into getting a tandem. Congrats to you both. :thumb:


My girlfriend and I decided to buy a tandem after test riding one a few weeks back. It's a Medium/Small Road 2 Cannondale. The fit of the bike works as I'm 5' 7" 140 and she is 5' 3" and less lbs than me. We did swap out the stock saddles and I replaced the FSA bar with a Shimano Pro round. I've never had this much fun on a bike... I've done a fair amount of riding with uspspro and his wife on their Calfee. Now I know why they are always smiling.

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7351/p1290024.jpg

Dude, where TF did you find that? Gnashing of teeth, rending of hair is happening here!

Cannondale has done a pretty good job of hosting out the geometry for their bikes on their Product web pages.
http://www.cannondale.com/2012/bikes/recreation-urban/tandem/tandem/2010-road-tandem-2

Up and until they were bought-out, they also kept a very comprehensive archive of previous year / geometry information on line as well. Nowadays they are only archiving their print catalogs in .pdf format which you can find under the "Support" link at the Cannondale Website. The files are big (33mb) and the server is slow, but towards the back you'll find the print version of the specs and geometry tables
http://cdn.cannondale.com/Manuals/2011_Cusa_English.pdf

For older Cannondale geometry info, a lot of its buried in the archives here at BF; you just have to do a very specific search using GOOGLE to find it, e.g., site:bikeforums.net cannondale tandem geometry

See, the weird thing about the cannondale site (for me) is that I cannot see the geo at all. I can see the link to it, but when I click on it it simply does not load for me. So I had always assumed that their site was broken, not that it was something wrong with my browser.

See, the weird thing about the cannondale site (for me) is that I cannot see the geo at all. I can see the link to it, but when I click on it it simply does not load for me. So I had always assumed that their site was broken, not that it was something wrong with my browser.

I fully believe their site IS broken. It's had issues for a long time too. I ended up writting to Cannondale to ask for the information. And this past weekend, we picked up a Cannondale RT2 too. :)