Fifty Plus (50+) - Want to lose weight?

According to this recent study it's the number of calories...not where they come from.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/31/calories-count-but-not-where-they-come-from-study/

Um, the fact that weight loss requires a caloric deficit (ie, taking in fewer calories than you expend) isn't exactly late-breaking news. ;)

Awwww...I thought I was gonna get the punch line to a Henny Youngman joke.

Next breaking news: in order to achieve cardiovascular fitness, you have to exercise.

Sorry, if there were any other way I'd be the first to try it.

I thought it was all genetic. :)

YES!!

Is it really calories? Or is it the food you eat?

I saw this add linked to another bike related site, found the video and information interesting (but long).
http://www.beyonddiet.com/BD

I thought the information made sense and I like the idea of eating foods with only one ingredient.

"At six months, people had lost more than nine pounds of fat and close to five pounds of lean mass, but some of this was regained by the two-year mark."

As someone who is literally half the man I used to be this is the downfall of almost all weightloss programs. Yes, I've gained some weight back from my low last spring. I've gained muscle. If there is a secret to weightloss it's patience. After an initial 2 month period of pretty big losses (water?) I lost 10 lbs /month. If I needed to do it again I'd go slower especially that last 30 pounds which is where my strength really started to fade. I also believe that the more active you are before you begin the slower you should lose the weight.

Good on you Jethro56, you sir are the rider that keeps me pushing. Keep it up and so will I!!!

Bill

According to this recent study it's the number of calories...not where they come from.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/31/calories-count-but-not-where-they-come-from-study/

That is true, but where they come from is important for other reasons, you need certain nutritional elements to stay alive, the key is to get all the nutrition you need, for the lowest number of calories, and you don't get that from foods where they have processed out all the nutrition and then replaced that with chemical agents nobody can pronounce....

This quote said it all for me, “The major predictor for weight loss was ‘adherence.’ Those participants who adhered better, lost more weight than those who did not,” Bray told Reuters Health.

Now does somebody have a nickel? I need 5 more cents to buy M&Ms. :lol:

To summarize:

calories burned > calories in = weight loss


calories burned < calories in = weight gain


calories burned = calories in = weight maintenance

That is true, but where they come from is important for other reasons, you need certain nutritional elements to stay alive, the key is to get all the nutrition you need, for the lowest number of calories, and you don't get that from foods where they have processed out all the nutrition and then replaced that with chemical agents nobody can pronounce....

Very true, Wogster. Eating "junk" calories does nothing to improve your health like fruits, veggies, good carbs, etc.

All this talk of weight is depressing me.

I've always regarded the weight issue as a simple adaptation exercise, which helps explain why just eating less doesn't always work:

Suppose you just sit around getting fat, and you decide to lose weight. So you cut down on caloric intake. Because your body is so good at adaptation, it says, "hey, I'm not getting enough food here. I'd better stock up!" So it starts converting carbs & proteins to fat and storing it, and then your body makes you tired so you don't move around as much, thereby burning it off. This is the way our cave-dwelling ancestors got thru lean times. Only most people these days don't have lean times, at least not as lean as the ancestors.

OK, so you sit around and you keep eating normally. Your body says, "hey, I'm getting enough, we can afford to burn it off." So you become more energetic, and less carbs/proteins get converted to fat, but you don't get any thinner unless you start exercising more.

So the key to the whole thing is exercise: You start riding a bike about two hours each day, some of it going pretty hard. What does the ol' body say? "Hey, I need more food, but I need the carbs to burn for energy and the proteins to make more needed muscle! But I'm getting a bunch of fat here, which isn't really necessary, so I'll just store what I can't burn off." Which explains why there are a lot of overweight guys in recreational cycling clubs who just can't seem to lose the extra fat.

Which is my roundabout explanation for why you need to exercise (A LOT if you are overweight) and to eat good food. The human body is extremely good at adapting to its environment. Just don't let it go into starvation mode to lose weight, because it won't work. Just feed it enough, but exercise more if you want to lose the weight. Also, appetite is not a good measure of how much food your body needs. People tend to eat beyond what they need before they feel "full." Leaving the table slightly hungry works. You feel "full" after another half hour or so.

L.

For me, where my calories come from affects my weight more than any other factor-- I'm car free, and have to schlepp all my groceries home in my Burly Nomad.

Why is everybody looking at me like that?

"you need to exercise (A LOT if you are overweight) and to eat good food."

I agree - however, A LOT means A REAL LOT, because we want to eat back any energy lost. So if we're overweight to begin with, and we go for a ride, or a jog, or walk up several flights of stairs, it just makes us hungry, we put back what we burned off in energy, and we're left being overweight.

Whether we sit or exercise, our body is going to want to replenish whatever energy we burn off. So once excess weight is on us, getting it off is very, very difficult.

Burn off huge amounts of calories with massive exercise, and it will be difficult to eat enough without bursting a gut to replenish energy that's lost. Most of us don't have that time/committment. Again, it's very, very difficult to lose weight.

I'm still waiting for the magic little pill THEY were telling me would be coming soon way back when.

To summarize:

calories burned > calories in = weight loss
calories burned < calories in = weight gain
calories burned = calories in = weight maintenance

So the laws of physics have not been repealed. But what the researchers either didn't study, or the reporter didn't include, was which diets were easier to adhere to. I've seen some research that suggests diets higher in complex carbs, rather than simple carbs (ie sugar), and diets higher in protein, are easier to stick to. And that seems to be true in my own experience as well.

Back in September 2010/end of August 2010, I was a Clyde's, 5'7" and 251lbs. I went to my doctor 3 months after having a med increase for my diabetes to get it under control--it was still too high, HbA1c of about 7.2 or 7.4, can't exactly remember. He said, I would have to start one of the new meds, Byetta or Victoza, or start using insulin--all of which are injections. I decided to give Victoza a try since that is once a day and not meal dependent--whereas Byetta is 2X daily and must be taken within 30 minutes prior to eating. One of the effects, a side effect, of Victoza(and Byetta too) is that it slows gastric emptying and makes your brain think you're full sooner and longer. After being on Victoza I began eating less and after the first week, I lost 6 lbs. Now, I decided I wasn't going to just "depend" on Victoza to bring down my weight so I started walking, 1 mile a day(5 to 6 days/week) the first week, then 1 1/2, then 2, then 3. I was up to 4 miles/day/5or6 days/week. By March of 2011, I was down to 185 lbs--losing usually 2 to 3 or 4 lbs/week. I then developed a couple of blood blisters on my right foot, one of which made me loose a toenail on the second toe. Doc said all was fine, but I had to stop for bit and take it a little easier(was walking 4 miles @ 4 to 4.5 mph). I did not want to stop doing exercise. I asked him about riding a bike and he said that riding a bike would be excellent and I could do that right away--it wouldn't interfere with the blisters/toe healing. I went to Dick's Sporting Goods, Walmart, and the LBS and looked at some comfort/hybrids. My wife, as a surprise, went out and got the Diamondback from Dick's(I kept the fact that I wanted the Giant from the LBS instead to myself). I started riding, 8 miles at first, then 12, then 16, then 18, then 20 miles, then 23 miles 5 to 6 days/week, usually 6. As of late November '11 I weighed 149(I lost 102 lbs). My weight fluctuates now between 148 to 152--usually close to 149/159 most of the time.

I know that the Victoza has helped me get my diabetes and weight under control, but the exercise has done just as much, and the doc agrees. I probably would be 40 or so lbs heavier if not for the exercise. My blood sugar is in great control, HbA1c of 5.5 as of Nov '11. My cholesterol and blood pressure is down(due to weight loss and, especially, due to the exercise). The doc has cut one of my diabetic meds in half, one of the cholesterol meds in half, another cholesterol med has been cut out entirely, and I've stopped taking another med(anti-inflammatory) (I started retaking the anit-inflammatory because of the hand surgery and on the orthopedic surgeon's recommendation for 30 days post surgery to assist in inflammation.)

I am determined as all heck not to every go back. Since my surgery, 2 weeks ago, I can't ride the bike, but I walk 3 miles/day and do step-ups for 50 minutes and giant step-ups for 12min 6 days/wk.

So the laws of physics have not been repealed. But what the researchers either didn't study, or the reporter didn't include, was which diets were easier to adhere to. I've seen some research that suggests diets higher in complex carbs, rather than simple carbs (ie sugar), and diets higher in protein, are easier to stick to. And that seems to be true in my own experience as well.

The point is, what ever works for you is the way to go to lose weight, as long as calories burned is more than calories consumed.

OF COURSE: Eating healthy FOOD is the best way to go.

lhbernhart: Lots of good points I'll add the necessity of cross training as Bikey Mikey (Great job by the way!!) points out walking is a great way to add some muscle confusion. I add muscle confusion as I believe not only does your body adapt to caloric consumption but to exercise as well.

THAT, my friend, is a very inspiring story. Thank you for sharing it.


Back in September 2010/end of August 2010, I was a Clyde's, 5'7" and 251lbs. I went to my doctor 3 months after having a med increase for my diabetes to get it under control--it was still too high, HbA1c of about 7.2 or 7.4, can't exactly remember. He said, I would have to start one of the new meds, Byetta or Victoza, or start using insulin--all of which are injections. I decided to give Victoza a try since that is once a day and not meal dependent--whereas Byetta is 2X daily and must be taken within 30 minutes prior to eating. One of the effects, a side effect, of Victoza(and Byetta too) is that it slows gastric emptying and makes your brain think you're full sooner and longer. After being on Victoza I began eating less and after the first week, I lost 6 lbs. Now, I decided I wasn't going to just "depend" on Victoza to bring down my weight so I started walking, 1 mile a day(5 to 6 days/week) the first week, then 1 1/2, then 2, then 3. I was up to 4 miles/day/5or6 days/week. By March of 2011, I was down to 185 lbs--losing usually 2 to 3 or 4 lbs/week. I then developed a couple of blood blisters on my right foot, one of which made me loose a toenail on the second toe. Doc said all was fine, but I had to stop for bit and take it a little easier(was walking 4 miles @ 4 to 4.5 mph). I did not want to stop doing exercise. I asked him about riding a bike and he said that riding a bike would be excellent and I could do that right away--it wouldn't interfere with the blisters/toe healing. I went to Dick's Sporting Goods, Walmart, and the LBS and looked at some comfort/hybrids. My wife, as a surprise, went out and got the Diamondback from Dick's(I kept the fact that I wanted the Giant from the LBS instead to myself). I started riding, 8 miles at first, then 12, then 16, then 18, then 20 miles, then 23 miles 5 to 6 days/week, usually 6. As of late November '11 I weighed 149(I lost 102 lbs). My weight fluctuates now between 148 to 152--usually close to 149/159 most of the time.

I know that the Victoza has helped me get my diabetes and weight under control, but the exercise has done just as much, and the doc agrees. I probably would be 40 or so lbs heavier if not for the exercise. My blood sugar is in great control, HbA1c of 5.5 as of Nov '11. My cholesterol and blood pressure is down(due to weight loss and, especially, due to the exercise). The doc has cut one of my diabetic meds in half, one of the cholesterol meds in half, another cholesterol med has been cut out entirely, and I've stopped taking another med(anti-inflammatory) (I started retaking the anit-inflammatory because of the hand surgery and on the orthopedic surgeon's recommendation for 30 days post surgery to assist in inflammation.)

I am determined as all heck not to every go back. Since my surgery, 2 weeks ago, I can't ride the bike, but I walk 3 miles/day and do step-ups for 50 minutes and giant step-ups for 12min 6 days/wk.

My experience: I lost 70 lbs w/o increasing amount of exercise very much at all. I started exercising more, and lost 23 more lbs increasing exercise. I went from 243 down to 150 (I am 5'10") in little over a year. I gained back a few pounds over the holidays and have since lost it.

I think the reason that people who exercise to lose weight end up gaining weight is pretty simple: from watching friends, its easy to go out and exercise hard enough to burn 500 calories, and then reward yourself with 750 calories worth of ice cream. For example, pushing yourself hard on a bike, and rewarding your self with a couple of glasses of chocolate milk. :)

The exercise I did add to to love the initial 70 lbs didn't burn very many calories - "Yin" yoga, which is mostly stretching. But I am convinced it helped with the over-eating - which was the critical issue for me.

Once I had lost 70 lbs, I started exercising (got on a bike) because it was fun, but I am not altogether convinced that the biking had much impact on weight loss.

Wow! There are some incredible stories of weight loss and making oneself healthier here. Now I feel like a slacker for whining about the 10 lbs. I can't lose.

The point is, what ever works for you is the way to go to lose weight, as long as calories burned is more than calories consumed.

OF COURSE: Eating healthy FOOD is the best way to go.

+1
Caloric concerns should not outweigh your overall nutrition .
Cravings would be the least of your worries .

I think the reason that people who exercise to lose weight end up gaining weight is pretty simple: from watching friends, its easy to go out and exercise hard enough to burn 500 calories, and then reward yourself with 750 calories worth of ice cream. For example, pushing yourself hard on a bike, and rewarding your self with a couple of glasses of chocolate milk. :)


Preacher, you've gone from preachin to meddlin with that one.

I blamed my weight gain over the years on slowing metabolism. I exercised a lot, but the pounds kept creeping up. A year ago, I downloaded a free app (LoseIt.com) on my iPhone and started using it daily. It takes all of your personal info (age, weight, etc.) and sets a daily calorie budget for you depending on how much weight you want to lose over what period of time. You record everything you eat as well as all of your exercise, and it tracks your progress. Basically, if you follow the budget or go under it, you should lose weight.

I was skeptical but it was fun to play with on my new iPhone. The surprising thing was that I lost weight almost exactly at the rate I picked (1 lb/week) when I set my calorie budget. I reached my weight goal right on target and then reset the goal to a lower weight. Eventually I lost 30 lbs, getting back to my college weight, and I've maintained that weight for about 6 months now.

So, in conclusion, the old calories in/ calories out formula works but you have to be pretty diligent about it. Having my iPhone handy made it much more doable because I didn't have an excuse for forgetting to log all of the food I ate. Regular exercise also helped, mainly by making it possible to eat more and still maintain my budget.

So, in conclusion, the old calories in/ calories out formula works but you have to be pretty diligent about it.


From what I understand, if you have ever had a significant weight issue - like me :) - and you lose weight, you will need to be diligent to keep the weight off.

I read an article recently that claimed that even after keeping weight off for 6 years, there are still some chemical indicators that your body is seeking to regain that weight.

That's not the end of the world - all kinds of people have chronic medical conditions that require more expensive and complicated treatment than eating a little less than you might want to. :)

From what I understand, if you have ever had a significant weight issue - like me :) - and you lose weight, you will need to be diligent to keep the weight off.

I read an article recently that claimed that even after keeping weight off for 6 years, there are still some chemical indicators that your body is seeking to regain that weight.

That's not the end of the world - all kinds of people have chronic medical conditions that require more expensive and complicated treatment than eating a little less than you might want to. :)

The bolded sections are precisely why I'm working so hard. It's not easy getting it off...it's work. But, it is also work to keep it off and I am determined like h*** to keep it off.

I believe that those who did the work, calorie control and exercise, to get weight off are more likely to keep it off than those who had surgery to aid in weight loss.

A friend of mine who knows a lot more about exercise and human physiology than me says research show that the two best determinants of people who successfully lose weight and keep it off are: (1) weighing yourself daily, and (2) tracking all of the food you eat (and I assume exercise as well). That is why I've continued to track my weight, food intake and exercise even though I met my target weight 6 months ago. Checking the scales every day can be frustrating at times because weight can fluctuate widely for a number of reasons, such as salt intake, hydration, exercise and the kinds of food you eat. But it keeps you honest. My weight crept up in December for the usual reasons -- too much pie, cake, cookies, etc over the holidays -- even though I was exercising a lot. I cut back my intake of sweets in January, and my weight started dropping again. However, if I hadn't continued tracking my data and weighing in daily, it would have been very easy to regain 5 lbs.

It is said that you should weight yourself first thing in the AM, preferably after a good bowel movement, to have the least variation in your measurements.

Daily fluctuations are usually due to water retention or diuresis. I've noticed that sometimes the wieght will go up after vigorous exercise the day before, which is due to fluid retention I am told.

Whenever I get really out of control the "fix" is always to start counting calories on a daily basis. The other things that help me are weighing myself and waist measurement.

A friend of mine who knows a lot more about exercise and human physiology than me says research show that the two best determinants of people who successfully lose weight and keep it off are: (1) weighing yourself daily, and (2) tracking all of the food you eat (and I assume exercise as well).

My experience doesn't support #2. My theory is that I have a an expert with me 24 hours a who can tell me whether I am eating too much or not - in fact the sole absolute expert in this matter, and no writing is required. :)

The expert is, of course, my own body. When I started this process in October of 2010, I realized that I did not know when I was hungry, and when I was not hungry. I had been tuning out those messages from my stomach for decades - and replaced those messages with eating out of boredom, habit, social discomfort, physical pleasure of eating, etc. Note that none of those are hunger. I reflected that I would overeat the most when I was at a social function with people that I was not particularly close to, with really good deserts (boredom, social discomfort, and physical pleasure of eating).

I had an insight that yoga might help me get in touch with my body, and re-establish a route of communication with my stomach. I was shocked when I lost 2.5 lbs in the first week of yoga. This was pretty mild stretching yoga - none of the more cardiovascular varieties.

I was shocked to keep losing 2.5 lbs a week for the next two months.

I continued to be shocked as I kept losing 2.5 lb/week for months on end. Altogether 7 months of losing 2.5 lbs/week.

I weighed myself every day - mostly to verify that I was in fact listening to my stomach, and not conning myself.

I realized at one point that I had lived my whole life with a screwy notion of self-nurture - that in fact a good yoga session was and felt more nurturing than an ice cream sundae.

As a part of exploring self-nuture and physical pleasure, I got on a bike - and had a lot of fun. I kept on the bike because it was fun - but I don't kid myself about calories. If I go out for an hour's ride in the evening, I probably burn 250 calories or so - about a half of a glass of chocolate milk. If/When I start eating due to those other factors - boredom, social discomfort, etc. - 250 calories isn't even a warm up. :)

For me - and perhaps only for me - tracking what I eat leads me to the wrong question. When I am around people who track their food closely (Weight Watchers, calories counters, etc), the fundamental question is "I really want to eat this, can I eat this?"

For me, the question is, "I can eat this, do I really want to eat this?" - and the answer is almost always "not really". That's mostly because I don't ask the question if I am really in fact hungry. :)

I realize that my results may be highly idiosyncratic for two reasons:

I am a pretty contemplative guy, I guess. I am comfortable pondering my impulses - instead of reacting immediately.
I was never an athlete - so I think the deeper cause was decades of alienation from my own body. People who were once athletic and no longer are may have a completely different experience. :)

As a part of exploring self-nuture and physical pleasure, I got on a bike - and had a lot of fun. I kept on the bike because it was fun - but I don't kid myself about calories. If I go out for an hour's ride in the evening, I probably burn 250 calories or so - about a half of a glass of chocolate milk. If/When I start eating due to those other factors - boredom, social discomfort, etc. - 250 calories isn't even a warm up. :)

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I never finished the story. After getting on a bike, and continuing to pay attention to my "expert", I kept losing weight, albeit at a slower pace. By November of 2011, my doctor ordered me to stop losing weight - in fact, he wanted me to gain 10 lbs.

I listened to my stomach a little less assiduously, and followed his advice, and gained 4 lbs over the next two months. I didn't like the way that felt, and have returned to my internal expert, and and have lost 3 of those lbs.

Im 73 and during the warm months, I ride approx 30 miles every other day. In the last 3 years since I retired I went from 195 down to 170 by that riding and eating reasonably. Just ride------as some one stated his recumbent bike was his LRM------lard removal maching!!!!!

So the laws of physics have not been repealed. But what the researchers either didn't study, or the reporter didn't include, was which diets were easier to adhere to. I've seen some research that suggests diets higher in complex carbs, rather than simple carbs (ie sugar), and diets higher in protein, are easier to stick to. And that seems to be true in my own experience as well.

Same here. One reason is that a cup of brown rice along with fibrous green vegetables feels more filling once it's down the hatch than 4 oz of lean beef. And the three together are a good, balanced meal that sticks with you.

One thing they teach us in diabetes educational classes---the secret of good eating is to make a pie chart out of your plate. Divide it in half, and then divide one of the remaining halves into two quarters. Half of your plate is vegetables. One quarter is complex cabrs. The other quarter is lean protein. Avoid drinking empty calories (soda, juice, and limit alcohol) and avoid processed foods, especially stuff with white flour, white sugar, and especially HFCS. This is a way of eating that anyone can stick to. You can have treatsm even, every now and then. You're at someone's birthday party? Have a small wedge of cake, and make the excess calories up somewhere down the road. You feel like having some ice cream after a ride on a hot day? Have a small cup, but leave off the sweet hot fudge which is full of that poison called HFCS (high fructose corn syrup for the uninitiated). Don't deny yourself the occasion treat or feel like you're cheating. Feeling "deprived" is bad for your long term prospects of keeping the weight off. Too many people get to their goal weight and decide to splurge, and then splurging becomes the norm again, rather than the occasional treat.

It is said that you should weight yourself first thing in the AM, preferably after a good bowel movement, to have the least variation in your measurements.

Daily fluctuations are usually due to water retention or diuresis. I've noticed that sometimes the wieght will go up after vigorous exercise the day before, which is due to fluid retention I am told.

I've also noticed that if the weather keeps me off the bike for a couple of days, my weight actually drops. And that I might be a pound heavier the morning after a hard ride. I have a target range, and as long as it stays within that range, I'm good with it. I was actually a little concerned a couple of weeks ago, when I dropped below 150 and as low as 146, without any apparent reason. But I'm back into my comfort range of 150-157.

One thing that has not been looked at by this thread is physical issues like a thyroid not working properly.