Bicycle Mechanics - Lube Cassette or Not?

My LBS says that one does not lubricate the cassette. A book on bicycle maintenance that I have read recommends lubing the rear cassette with a dry lube. Does one lube or not lube the cassette? Thanks.

My LBS says that one does not lubricate the cassette. A book on bicycle maintenance that I have read recommends lubing the rear cassette with a dry lube. Does one lube or not lube the cassette? Thanks.No!

The reason the cassette (and older freewheels) are rarely lubed is because they are never under load when they are spinning. No load = little or no wear.

Having said that, yes I do dissassemble freewheels and lube the bearings with marine axle grease, no I do not disassemble cassettes but I will put a few drops of "Tri-Flow" in them on occasion.
Enjoy

The reason the cassette (and older freewheels) are rarely lubed is because they are never under load when they are spinning. No load = little or no wear.

WHAT?? If that is true, why do they wear out?

Okay, I think there may be a little confusion here on what skydive is asking: are you asking whether or not to lube the cogs (the sprockets, visible part of the cassette), or whether or not to lube the bearings which allow the cassette to coast.

Maybe the LBS is saying, "DON'T lube the cogs" (that would just gunk them up, the chain is what needs to be lubed, lubing the cogs wouldn't get much lubricant to the parts of the chain that need it).

And maybe the book is saying "DO lube the bearings" (although I can't imagine they'd need it often)

Maybe I need clarification. Are we talking about the bearing mechanism inside the free-wheel / free-hub, or are we discussing putting lubrication on the sprockets?

I think Sydney was saying not to lube the cogs, and powers2b was saying yes, lube the bearings, here's how.

See above post :)

Okay, I think there may be a little confusion here on what skydive is asking: are you asking whether or not to lube the cogs (the sprockets, visible part of the cassette), or whether or not to lube the bearings which allow the cassette to coast.

Maybe the LBS is saying, "DON'T lube the cogs" (that would just gunk them up, the chain is what needs to be lubed, lubing the cogs wouldn't get much lubricant to the parts of the chain that need it).

And maybe the book is saying "DO lube the bearings" (although I can't imagine they'd need it often)You wouldn't lube the hub bearing or the internals of the hub body with a dry lube in any case.Some maintenance books are far from 100%.

You wouldn't lube the hub bearing or the internals of the hub body with a dry lube in any case.

Well, ya, if it was the actual hub bearings you'd use grease.

But you're supposed to lube freewheels at least with a dry lube. I brought a seized freewheel to a very knowledgeable LBS, and they got it spinning again with some dry lube sprayed into the bearings. Suggested doing it every year or so.

You're probably gonna tell me it's different for freehubs :rolleyes: I don't have any experience with seized/noisy/underlubed freehubs...

To further muddy these troubled waters, I read skydive's question as meaning, "When installing a cassette, should one lube the interface between the cassette and the freehub body?" The answer to that is also no. There is no need for it. Nor is it necessary to lube the threads of the cassette lockring.

Okay, I think there may be a little confusion here on what skydive is asking: are you asking whether or not to lube the cogs (the sprockets, visible part of the cassette), or whether or not to lube the bearings which allow the cassette to coast.

Maybe the LBS is saying, "DON'T lube the cogs" (that would just gunk them up, the chain is what needs to be lubed, lubing the cogs wouldn't get much lubricant to the parts of the chain that need it).

And maybe the book is saying "DO lube the bearings" (although I can't imagine they'd need it often)

To clarify. I am meticulous with the cleaning lubing of my bicycle. I clean it after every ride (5 times a week), and then thoroughly clean and lube the chain and other areas once a week. I am aware of the need for bearing lubrication, however I speak of only the rear cogs. A maintenance book I recently read indicated that one should lightly spray the cogs with a dry lube. I asked the LBS about this, and he disagreed indicating that the cogs did not need to be lubed. So back to my question, perhaps stated more clearly, do the cogs need ANY lubrication. Forget the bearings, etc.

I say don't lube the cogs. Basically the chain doesn't really slide against the tooth when it engages (at least on a new, unworn chain, and new sprockets). The chain roller falls perfectly between the teeth.

Since there is no rubbing between the chain and the teeth, no lubrication is needed. The place where lube is needed is on the rollers or pins of the chain, because they rub as they flex. That is what causes the chain to elongate because the moving parts get worn. My understanding is that the sprockets will only experience significant wear if the chain elongates. Consequently, if you replace the chain when it gets .5% too long, your sprockets won't wear out for a really really long time.

I have read Jobst Brandt's article (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html) and some Sheldon Brown articles on the topic. That is my interpretation of them.

I say don't lube the cogs. Basically the chain doesn't really slide against the tooth when it engages (at least on a new, unworn chain, and new sprockets). The chain roller falls perfectly between the teeth.

I second this. Lubrication is for surfaces that slide on each other. As the tooth engages the chain, it is hitting a roller and is then static for the time that it is in contact with the chain. No lube.

But you're supposed to lube freewheels at least with a dry lube. I brought a seized freewheel to a very knowledgeable LBS, and they got it spinning again with some dry lube sprayed into the bearings. Suggested doing it every year or so.

..Well, you can free one up that way or even use wd-40,but then it should have some proper oil dribbled through it.

I second this. Lubrication is for surfaces that slide on each other. As the tooth engages the chain, it is hitting a roller and is then static for the time that it is in contact with the chain. No lube.

Thanks gang, one less thing to do. It amazes me the time required to keep a bike spiffy, serviced and lubed. I think my motorcycles are easier!

Even though it is not considered a moving surface, I still dismantle and clean my cassette cogs frequently (I took the pins out a long time ago for custom ratios) and use a liberal coat of car wax on them(not the mounting surface) this keeps them a little slippery as well as moisture resistant. Polished cogs work nicely.

Skydive,

My wife and I were cruising around central Florida and passed through Lake Mary. We stopped for gas and I figured I would find out where the lake was and go have a look. I asked the guy where the lake was and he looked at me like I had lost my mind and said "There's no lake around here."

So, does Lake Mary have a lake? I never did find one.

Skydive,

My wife and I were cruising around central Florida and passed through Lake Mary. We stopped for gas and I figured I would find out where the lake was and go have a look. I asked the guy where the lake was and he looked at me like I had lost my mind and said "There's no lake around here."

So, does Lake Mary have a lake? I never did find one.

Yeah, there are some lakes, but interestingly around town they are well concealed behind residential areas. The place that has lakes is Lake County - monster chain of lakes. Interestingly, I don't even know if one of the lakes in the area is called Lake Mary.

I spray mine with lube whenever I lube my chain. I only relube the drivetrain after muddy rides that require me to spray the bike down before bringing it in. I find it helps prevent rust if nothing else.

I spray mine with lube whenever I lube my chain. I find it helps prevent rust if nothing else.
Serves no purpose and it's a dit magnet.

A dit magnet or not, it is still a sliding surface. If one keeps with the constant cleaning and replenishing of a minor film then it is a non issue.

..... it is still a sliding surface. Geeze.............. :rolleyes:

it's a sliding surface when shifting, so it does make some sense to lightly lube it.

I really don't worry about it myself and jsut lube my chain, and let the oil cross-lubricate any cogs it goes by.

I have been thought back in the 70:ties that a freewheel mechanism should never be oiled because the fat sticky grease inside is supposed to last the lifetime of the freewheel. And if oiled then the oil will dissolve the fat, ok it will work, but you have to oil the freewheel quite often.

NB. It was a long time ago I read this in a old book so I might got details wrong but the overall picture is, do not oil cause then you have to do it again and again. Leave the grease in it.

Now that I am clear on the subject let me add the following:
It is not advisable to lube the cogs themselves. In fact it is advisable to keep the cogs as clean as possible. The reason is that a cog with lube on it will attract dirt. The dirt will become lodged between the chain roller and cog tooth while the chain is under load. This makes a very effective grinder. Over time (shorter than you may think) the loaded face of the cog will become misshapen from wear. It is for this same reason it is advisable to wipe the outer surface of the chain thoroughly after lubrication.
Enjoy

Now that I am clear on the subject let me add the following:
It is not advisable to lube the cogs themselves. In fact it is advisable to keep the cogs as clean as possible. The reason is that a cog with lube on it will attract dirt. The dirt will become lodged between the chain roller and cog tooth while the chain is under load. This makes a very effective grinder. Over time (shorter than you may think) the loaded face of the cog will become misshapen from wear. It is for this same reason it is advisable to wipe the outer surface of the chain thoroughly after lubrication.
Enjoy

Thanks - no lube for my cogs from here on!

Thanks - no lube for my cogs from here on!Now go read the first reply. Hard to imagine that such a simple question and concept could turn into so much rocket science and just plain BS.

To further complicate the issue. There is no need to lube the cogs or the cassette. For the above stated reasons, 1 it attracts dirt and 2 the chain is already lubed.

What needs lubrication (grease) is the freehub body. The pawls inside engage and provide the racheting mechanism. There is a device called a "Freehub Buddy" which is essentially a grease injector.

When your pawls stop working well the freehub body needs to be cleaned and regreased. I remove mine, dump it into the ZEP tank (container containing Mineral Spirits) and soak to displace all the contaminated grease. Then hit it with a degreaser to remove any left over grease and mineral spirits. Rinse and let dry. Once dry, you insert the freehub buddy and inject new grease until it oozes out the other side. (Similar to greasing your undercarriage joints/pivots on your car).

So, NO you don't lube the cassette/cogs but YES you grease the freehub body!

Here's a link: http://www.mtbstore.com/products/Hub-Tools/Morningstar-Freehub-Buddy-lube-injection-tool.html

Now go read the first reply. Hard to imagine that such a simple question and concept could turn into so much rocket science and just plain BS.

Sydney, please accept my humble apology for not realizing that the first answer, especially YOUR answer would be the definitive one. In that a book on maintenance says the opposite (understandly, the author is probably not as learned or knowledgeable regarding bike maintenance as you), and the LBS took the opposite tack, I was interested in other opinions with rationale for said opinions. Then, with that data, I would be prepared to make up my mind. I guess it is my weak engineer mentality - guess I should have studied liberal arts!

I guess it is my weak engineer mentality - guess I should have studied liberal arts! Engineering is too tight a box.I bailed after 2 years,but still had to work with em for 30 years. ;)

Engineering is too tight a box.I bailed after 2 years,but still had to work with em for 30 years. ;)
Finally, sydney! Now I understand why your answers are always bitter, concise, and totally correct in a literal sense but often confusing when it comes to the broader picture :)

Errr... I don't mean to be harsh. I on the other hand am a physicist but often wish I'd been an engineer!

Engineering is too tight a box.I bailed after 2 years,but still had to work with em for 30 years. ;)

So true, that's why I became an airline pilot!

Engineering is too tight a box.I bailed after 2 years,but still had to work with em for 30 years. ;)

You better give us a short bio of yourself soon... I mean, who are you, you know basically everything and have been working with engineering for 30 years. Give us more!!! :)

I respectfully dissent. After cracking open zillions of others' cassettes, I can tell you which ones didn't have (good) factory grease - the ones with a rust layer along the spindle body (I don't know how it grew on the plastic, maybe the metal cogs just left a sheath behind when removed). A light layer of grease on it's surface will both defend against that and facilitate easier removal and servicing. Done right, and wiped where necessary, you shouldn't get dirty cogs and spacers on the ride after.

Also, coating the "face" of the freehub (the rim of the inner core that you see when looking down the lockring opening on a cassette-fitted bike) before throwing on the lockring will keep goojum from getting into that tiny gap between the freehub core and cog spindle.

I dunno about greasing the lockring threads, I've never found factory grease there. Plus, that thing is removed with a sturdy splined tool hooked up to a big wrench with which you can torque through almost any rough patches with. The risks of damaging the threads on next service because the threads were left dry versus the ring (remote chance, I know) unravelling off by itself are worth it.

I respectfully dissent. After cracking open zillions of others' cassettes, I can tell you which ones didn't have (good) factory grease - the ones with a rust layer along the spindle body (I don't know how it grew on the plastic, maybe the metal cogs just left a sheath behind when removed). A light layer of grease on it's surface will both defend against that and facilitate easier removal and servicing. Done right, and wiped where necessary, you shouldn't get dirty cogs and spacers on the ride after.

Also, coating the "face" of the freehub (the rim of the inner core that you see when looking down the lockring opening on a cassette-fitted bike) before throwing on the lockring will keep goojum from getting into that tiny gap between the freehub core and cog spindle.

I dunno about greasing the lockring threads, I've never found factory grease there. Plus, that thing is removed with a sturdy splined tool hooked up to a big wrench with which you can torque through almost any rough patches with. The risks of damaging the threads on next service because the threads were left dry versus the ring (remote chance, I know) unravelling off by itself are worth it.My turn on the bong next.

Now that I am clear on the subject let me add the following:
It is not advisable to lube the cogs themselves. In fact it is advisable to keep the cogs as clean as possible. The reason is that a cog with lube on it will attract dirt. The dirt will become lodged between the chain roller and cog tooth while the chain is under load. This makes a very effective grinder. Over time (shorter than you may think) the loaded face of the cog will become misshapen from wear. It is for this same reason it is advisable to wipe the outer surface of the chain thoroughly after lubrication.
Enjoy
I agree. also if the chain is lubed, the contact area with the cogs will be lubed. If you lube the cogs, dirt & dust will be attracted and just give you another cleaning job.

Smoke away Sid, wouldn't make your posts look any different.

To further complicate the issue. There is no need to lube the cogs or the cassette. For the above stated reasons, 1 it attracts dirt and 2 the chain is already lubed.

What needs lubrication (grease) is the freehub body. The pawls inside engage and provide the racheting mechanism. There is a device called a "Freehub Buddy" which is essentially a grease injector.

When your pawls stop working well the freehub body needs to be cleaned and regreased. I remove mine, dump it into the ZEP tank (container containing Mineral Spirits) and soak to displace all the contaminated grease. Then hit it with a degreaser to remove any left over grease and mineral spirits. Rinse and let dry. Once dry, you insert the freehub buddy and inject new grease until it oozes out the other side. (Similar to greasing your undercarriage joints/pivots on your car).

So, NO you don't lube the cassette/cogs but YES you grease the freehub body!

Exactly what tool do you need to remove the freehub body? I was going to do this once but didn't have what i needed. It looked like it required a HUGE allen wrench.

Exactly what tool do you need to remove the freehub body? I was going to do this once but didn't have what i needed. It looked like it required a HUGE allen wrench.10mm