Road Cycling - Campagnolo bastards!

Of course, I decide to take BF-ish advice when looking for a roadbike, and give a test-ride to a few bikes I wasn't even considering; a Giant OCR-1, one of the Performance 'R' bikes, and (last-but-not-least), my first ride on a Campy Veloce-gruppo bike: A Bianchi Veloce[1].



I'm a convert. ;) Shimano makes good equipment, but it's like a Honda; and Campagnolo makes Ferraris. The quasi-indexing on the (Centaur) front derailleur was a bit odd, but I'll adapt, and I really like the Ergopower's capability to triple-shift when cresting a hill. The CroMo frame really is more comfortable, and it's only *very* slightly heavier. The Campy components just felt...better, more solid. I didn't feel like I could break this bike.



So, my bike shows up sometime in the next two weeks (and, no I'm *not* getting the Celeste...I refuse to ride a "seafoam" bike. :D ). This means I'm going to have to take a crash-course in Italian and start shaving my furry legs...



[1] As I understand it, Veloce is on about the same level as Shimano's 105, and I'm picking this bike up for about $200 less than the Trek would have cost me.

Funny you should mention Ferrari. Campy actually makes some of the bearings used on Ferrari autos, and some of the wheels, too.

Congrats on your bike and discovering the value of Campy. Now you'll have to buy some Campy tools to work on it. They are, however, good quality and you will enjoy working with them.

Originally posted by D*Alex
Funny you should mention Ferrari. Campy actually makes some of the bearings used on Ferrari autos, and some of the wheels, too.

Which are, as I recall, the only reliable parts on a Ferrari... ;)

(It's only a status symbol if, when your date gets in, the car starts).

OK you Campy enthusiasts. I'll admit I have always loved the look and feel of Campy components ever since the 70's and the days of Campy Super Record. I do like the cleaner look of the Campy brake levers (no cable housing jutting out like Shimano) and the finish is sweet. I have a number of friends that have all Campy bikes and they love them to a degree.

But...

They seem to have more problems with shifting than I do with my Shimano Ultegra 9 speed road group. One of my friends has a Bianchi (mid-range model), all Shimano bike that he bent up the frame on last summer (low hanging wire in a parking lot - long story). Still rideable, but he used some insurance money (for the car damage to his van) to buy a Litespeed with all Campy. He was even saying the other day how he prefers the shifting of the Shimano (this was after the second time he tossed his chain on the up-shift to the big ring). I've ridden next to and behind lots of riders that when shifting with Campy, have ground the gears, missed a shift, tossed a chain, etc. Are they just not tuned well enough or is this inherent in Campy equipment? I even have one buddy that has the new Campy 10-speed on a Seven Cycles road bike and his setup is noise and doesn't seem to shift that smooth. He has it professionally maintainted at a high-end shop too.

Just wanted to know other Campy experiences. This is not intended to disrespect Campy by these comments. Hey my wife is Italian descent and I don't want to offend the family;)

The biggest differences between Campy and Shimano become aparent five to ten years down the road, when various Shimano parts have predeceased their Campy equivalents, and when replacement bits are available for Campy, but not for Shimano. Since my newest road bike still has its original 20-year-old pedals, headset, BB, and NR derailleur set, I obviously value longevity. (My oldest road frame has outlived its Gran Sport derailleurs, particularly that push-rod front, but its original 40-year-old downtube shift levers still work nicely.)

Originally posted by John E
The biggest differences between Campy and Shimano become aparent five to ten years down the road, when various Shimano parts have predeceased their Campy equivalents, and when replacement bits are available for Campy, but not for Shimano.

Point well taken.

I have had some problems with older Shimano parts in the past. An example was when Shimano decided to change the contour of the rubber brake hoods and I ordered new ones that never fit right since my brakes were a whole two model years old.

I bought my current road bike with Shimano because it was a package deal and I really didn't have a choice. Nice stuff for now. I'll see how long it lasts and how hard parts will be to get in the future.

Despite all the technology of new components there is still a bit or retro-grouch in me that finds the old equipment better in some ways. I guess that's what keeps Rivendell bikes popular.

Originally posted by Matadon
I'm *not* getting the Celeste...I refuse to ride a "seafoam" bike.
It grows on ya. Yer time's comin'. You are pronouncing it "chuh-lest-uh"?

Originally posted by roadbuzz


It grows on ya. Yer time's comin'. You are pronouncing it "chuh-lest-uh"?

Indeed, although I have one question -- how do you pronounce "Campagnolo"? One of the LBS monkeys says that it's pronounced "Camp-a-nelly", but that looks not right at all...

Kam-pa'-nolo

I had some shifting problems with some old Daytona stuff but usually this is due to improper adjustment and old cables. You should use the campy cables/housings.
10 speed is more sensitive because it has a finer movement needed. Once dialed in, it seems to remain perfect for the duration.
I have found the opposite to be true and feel the shifting is better than shimano with rock solid shifts.
You must spend a bit more time initially to adjust properly as it doesn't forgive fools easily (not to say your buds are fools).

Campy allows for real fine tuning...just look at the housing adjuster on the rear derailleur (Chorus and Record) it is metal with a metal micro spring mounted into a metal body. Infinite, solid fine tuning of the cable.

I agree with you about Celeste. What a god-awful color!

Brotherhood of Shimano unite! We must not allow this public lynching of our god go on in this forum! :crash:

Originally posted by Altwegg
Brotherhood of Shimano unite! We must not allow this public lynching of our god go on in this forum! :crash:
Yeah. I understand they make pretty good fishing reels.

Originally posted by RacerX
Kam-pa'-nolo
The 'n' in 'nolo' is pronounced 'ny', kind of like the 'ny' in canyon.

quote:
"and, no I'm *not* getting the Celeste...I refuse to ride a "seafoam" bike"

Hmmm. You break my heart, I've been riding Celeste Bianchi's over the last seven years and don't ever want another make or color. Celeste is 114 years of tradition.

By the way: its pronounced Cè-lè-stè and Càm-pain-iolo

Just my 2 cents.

Timo

I'm mostly a Campagnolo guy. I love the feel of the hoods and the tactile feedback of the shifting. I find the design incredibly elegant and the performance top-notch.

But, guys, the actual functional differences between Campy and S aren't really all that great. I have S105 on my 'cross bike and it shifts very well. In fact, I find that in some situations -- shifting under load -- it is actualy superior to Campy.

What you chose is really a question of preference, and it's NOT a choice between Toyota nd Ferarri. It's a choice between Toyota [S105] and Fiat [Veloce] or Acura [Dura Ace] and Ferarri [Record].

Keep in mind that a lot of pros are winning races on S; I didn't hear Cipollini complain about moving from Recorrd to Dura Ace this year.

Me? My preference for a road bike is Campagnolo. But that's preference.

For more "Celeste mania," see the "Bianchi" thread.

Quote:
"Keep in mind that a lot of pros are winning races on S; I didn't hear Cipollini complain about moving from Recorrd to Dura Ace this year."

Exactly. The pros don't give a damn if its Campagnolo or Shimano. As long as it works its fine. If they preferred Shimano or Campagnolo it would soon be over for the other make. See how Mavic shifting components lost it after Alex Zulle lost the Vuelta due to breakdown of his electronic shifters. That year, for all the world to see, team ONCE switched their Mavic shifters for Shimano DURING THE SEASON. Mavic electronics died in pro racing. Two years ago they tried once more with Mectronic (the Bonjour team raced it) but to no success.
Same with Suntour. Once they did not manage to develop a serious STI system they lost it.

During the European pro season the wins of Shimano and Campa equipped teams are about 50-50.

Originally posted by Timo
By the way: its pronounced Cè-lè-stè and Càm-pain-iolo
I should stick to pig-latin. ;)

ater-lay!

I would suspect that the pros don't have that much choice in the matter. They get Shimano or Campy and whatever company's frame based on sponsoring arrangements--which is, I might add, where the money really comes from.

Take Speedplay pedals. Sure there are "platform-size" advantages to other pedals, but with so many amateur racers loving their Speedplays, one would expect them to show up more among the pros. But, nope. They gotta go with their sponsor's products.

Fair enough, they have to earn a living. But, the lesson to be learned is that a pro's advocacy of a given product is very likely flavored by the size of the check that came in the mail. It says nothing about the quality of the product or the discerning taste of our hero.

Cheers,
Jamie

Jamie:

The top pros can use whatever they want, as long as it's relatively concealed . When Pantani shopped around for new equipment sponsors for this year's edition of Mercatone-Uno, he [i]could have selected Campagnolo, but the word is that he personally went after S. That's why Uno's Wilier's are equipped with Dura Ace and not Record. Don't you think Cipo was consulted when Acqua e Sapone switched from CAmpy to S this year?

I think Bonjour changed over from S to Campy this year.

Having ridden both S and Campy, I can honestly say that, aside from personal preference and some minor differences, there really is no functional difference between the two systems.

Sure, you can't sweep an upshift in S like you can in Campy, but Campy requires a lot more force to upshift on the thumbshifter in the drops. Campy has 10-speed, but the pros are running solid blocks anyway, so the differences there are minimal. I prefer the feel of the Campy hoods and I find that they're positioned better for my personal aero position; some people prefer S.

Using either system isn't going to win or lose races, and neither is chosing Look pedals over Speedplays [BTW, I see a LOT more Look pedals at crits in Montreal]. It really is six of one or a half dozen of the other.

I prefer Campy, but I respect S.

Originally posted by jmlee
[B]I would suspect that the pros don't have that much choice in the matter. They get Shimano or Campy and whatever company's frame based on sponsoring arrangements--which is, I might add, where the money really comes from.

...The teams have contracts with both the frame builder and the components manufacturers. The bikes are build-up by the team mechanics. That is why teams are around with the same frame, but different components:

Colnago: Rabo and Mapei use Shimano, several smaller teams use Colnagos with Campagnolo.

Pinarello: iBanesto and Telekom use Campa, Fassa Bartolo use Pinarellos with Shimano.


Take Speedplay pedals. Sure there are "platform-size" advantages to other pedals, but with so many amateur racers loving their Speedplays, one would expect them to show up more among the pros. But, nope. They gotta go with their sponsor's products.

...Most teams are European teams. In Europe Speedplay is just not that known. But the main point is: since they started racing as kids, todays pro's used Looks. They simply like them. When Shimano introduced SPD-R, most Pro's sticked to the old Look system Shimano pedals. Same with Campagnolo. They made a useless clipless pedal in the 1980s, so everybody combined Campa groups with Time pedals. When Campa started producing Looks under license, the pro's kept using Time.
A pedal is very important in the overall feeling on your bike. Why change to something you're not used to, it can ruin your season.

Most Europeans who used Speedplay in the former team Mercury (Van Petegem, Van Bon, Koerts) don't use them in their new teams, despite the fact that they can use them if they want.



Fair enough, they have to earn a living. But, the lesson to be learned is that a pro's advocacy of a given product is very likely flavored by the size of the check that came in the mail. It says nothing about the quality of the product or the discerning taste of our hero.

Nope. If the product is no good they manufacturer can offer what they want but the pro's won't use it. But if quality of several products is equal, the team will make the best deal. Who can blame them. Just a small group of pro's are in a position to pick main components for the rest of the team. Personal sponsorship is mostly sunglasses, shoes, etc.

Just my 2 cents,
Timo

The pros in general can have whatever they want on their bikes, but keep in mind, they don't need to worry about how well the drivetrain in going to work 2-10 years down the road. (an example of them getting what they want, the retail trek 5900 is built up with bontanger paired spoke wheels, for most of the tour, lance was riding Mavic Carbon Cosmics, if I remember correctly though, he did move around and use different wheels on different days.)

As for the Campagnolo verses Shimano, I have to go with campy from a normal riders perspective. You have brand new Dura-Ace drivetrain, and a brand new Campy Record drivetrain. Out of the box, the shimano will run better, but the campy will begin to come to it's own about 100 miles down the road, whereas the shimano will begin wear out. Campy drivtrains do deffinately have a break in period. I must admit though, shimano does shift more smoothly, (I do run shimano....... I only have so much money!!) but I like the feel of campy (I've done a couple of rides on my bosses bikes. As well, you just get the feeling that campy puts more time into what they do, and it is only what they do. (Bikes are only 20% of Shimano) For example, my boss just installed a campy veloce headset on an older Coppi being rebuilt. The bearings for the head set came in a nice seperate plastic container sitting in grease. Is this needed... No, but it is a really nice touch that shows that they are serious about what they do. But hey, it's all about what you like and what makes you comfy anyway, I just like Campy....

USPS has a deal with Mavic. That is why Lance rides Ksyriums and Cosmic Carbone SSC's.
Trek has a deal (owns?) with Bontrager, that is why LBS Trek rides Bontragers

same with the DEDA bars and stem...USPS but not TREK LBS.

Yes, I know this...

Trek apparently pissed off Rolf, or vice versa, and the bontragers are supposedly "the same technology", but as far as I'm concerned, their only benefit is weight. They ride very stiffly and are under so much tension that.... I just don't trust them on any long rides, but they should be good for racing.

But as I said, I'm pretty sure Lance can have whatever he wants on his bike.

The war between Campagnolo and Shimano will go on and on but will never get anywhere, because there is no such thing as one being better than the other. The personal choice is up to the rider and what he's comfortable with, they both provide very good value for money and they both have to be up with the best. If one company fails or gets lazy to produce a good quality gearing system or groupset, then the riders are going to say bye bye and move to the other, or vice versa.

But yet again I ask my self why does Lance use Shim DA.

Because that is the team sponsorship arrangement.

He might be able to hide the fact that his pedals are different (from time to time) than they are supposed to be. But it would be impossible to camoflage the Ergos to look like STIs.

In the old days, and perhaps even today, some riders have apparently been able to use their favorite frames as well, disguised to look like the team model. With some of the new and very unique looking features on frames, that may be getting harder.

And who knows - he may even like them better.

Cheers...Gary

Lance used to ride a Ti frame all the time--painted to look like something else. Others are right, Shimano or campy on a team bike has to do with sponsorship deals NOT rider preference.

its not about the bike - its about the components!!

Cornholio---corn-hole-io

Wait wait---- wrong forum---LOL

Just ran across this article today ... for all there is to know in the eternal Campy vs. the S-word components (actually, this article is very objective and even-handed) debate, go to http://www.totalbike.com/articles/Campy-Shimano.html

Enjoy!

It seems like the usual Camp / Shimano argument, if it wasn't there cyclist would very little to argue about ! I've made the wonderful transition over to Campag, and have not looked back, having said that though, the price, availabilty of parts, is the main consideration! (especially in Australia) Both make bikes shift gears and stop! simple! But boy does Campag look better especially the carbon!:o

Lance used to ride a Litespeed titanium frame that was hidden as a Trek :D

My wife has just ordered her custom built Roberts tourer and it's Campag (Campy? - who says that) Veloce, other than the chainset (Stronglight 46-36-26), and XTR cant brakes.

She's never ridden ergo before, but on a test ride of a similarly equipped bike, loved it.

The colour has been matched to a Boots inhaler packet ! Slightly darker than Celeste.

Here is another place you would not expect to find Campagnolo - my friend has a Ducati 996 motorcycle, and guess who made the wheelrims? Yes, that would be Campagnolo.:D

I also swear by campy. I had a gitane with campy record for nearly 20 years and never cleaned a bearing. Still, this bikes bearings all rolled like glass. Campy uses the strongest, lightest metals for not only the best performance, but the most durability. I'm riding a cannondale now from 1985 that I upgraded to campy in 1990. All of the campy parts still sparkle and roll like glass. It's all Athena stuff. I'm looking next year maybe to build a colnago with no other than campy. I had suntour on my cannondale first before switching to campy. I also used some Shimano. Like the guy says, it's like Honda vs. Ferrari. Honda is reliable and will last a long time, but it is much more plain than ferrari. I'll stick with campy.

Originally posted by Matadon
Of course, I decide to take BF-ish advice when looking for a roadbike, and give a test-ride to a few bikes I wasn't even considering; a Giant OCR-1, one of the Performance 'R' bikes, and (last-but-not-least), my first ride on a Campy Veloce-gruppo bike: A Bianchi Veloce[1].



I'm a convert. ;) Shimano makes good equipment, but it's like a Honda; and Campagnolo makes Ferraris. The quasi-indexing on the (Centaur) front derailleur was a bit odd, but I'll adapt, and I really like the Ergopower's capability to triple-shift when cresting a hill. The CroMo frame really is more comfortable, and it's only *very* slightly heavier. The Campy components just felt...better, more solid. I didn't feel like I could break this bike.



So, my bike shows up sometime in the next two weeks (and, no I'm *not* getting the Celeste...I refuse to ride a "seafoam" bike. :D ). This means I'm going to have to take a crash-course in Italian and start shaving my furry legs...



[1] As I understand it, Veloce is on about the same level as Shimano's 105, and I'm picking this bike up for about $200 less than the Trek would have cost me.

I bought a Veloce about 5 weeks ago and I love the thing, I have ridden it daily since I got it, beautiful frame and nicely equipped. I think you might regret your color choice decision though, Celeste really grows on one. I wouldnt have a Bianchi in any other color. Oh, and Campy Veloce outperforms Ultegra (which Ive been riding on my other bike) its just a tad heavier. Check out the review for Veloce components on www.campyonly.com

Cheers

Originally posted by poululla
Here is another place you would not expect to find Campagnolo - my friend has a Ducati 996 motorcycle, and guess who made the wheelrims? Yes, that would be Campagnolo.:D If you find a late 60's early to mid 70's Alfa Romeo,
Guess who manufactured the wheels? you got it
Campagnolo.

Marty

Originally posted by chewa
... (Campy? - who says that) ...
Maybe it's an American thing. Stateside it's always been lovingly referred to as "Campy" for as long as I've been a bikeaholic (i.e., late '70s).

Originally posted by SteveE

Maybe it's an American thing. Stateside it's always been lovingly referred to as "Campy" for as long as I've been a bikeaholic (i.e., late '70s).

Sadly enough, Id dare say its because so many americans dont know how to pronounce 'campagnolo'.

has anyone had any feedback from the new campy entry level line --->xenon i think it is called?!

Don't know why they had to bring out the Xenon grouppo. Mirage was as entry-level as any group can be.

Xenon is specifically designed for junior riders.