Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Italian no-lockring technique?

How do we feel about this (http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm )? I have my doubts.

i call shenanigans

that's either a faceplant or stripped hub waiting to happen

what works on the track might not work on the street.

There's a guy over at fixedgeargallery that says he rides this setup on the street. sans brakes.
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383


I still think Darwin will eventually prevail

i really do want to be one of those fixie purist types (i need a fixie first)

but come on -- a lock ring? does it really matter that much?

and doesn't "(avoid applying excessive force as this may damage the threads of the hub)" basically translate to "don't do this"?

I'm keepin' my lockring.

But I like the idea of not have to use a chain whip!

I did that before(when I was dumb and stupid) it was alright til somebody jumped out in front of me and there went the cog. i still am dumb and stupid>>LOL

S/F,
CEYA!

same thing happened to me...going down hill...into an intersection....that was the first (of many) time that i literally bailed out and jumped off the bike so as not to die

i've been using a suicide wheel, (normal freewheel hub, track cog and an english BB lockring) on my street ride for a while now, lots of loctite, and i cranked down the cog before the lockring was installed, haven't had any problems and i ride pretty aggressively, lots of skids and skipping. its been solid, but i know i'm asking for trouble, and it'll fail one of these days, hopefully not before i build up a new track wheel for it.
i have tried the italian trick, and it works fine, on the track where you shouldn't have to stop fast :) on the street however, if
you actually have to panic stop with it, it'll thread itself right off.
if you must use it, you can, but be careful with the backpedaling.
preferably install a front brake for most of the stopping.

I want to see a pic of what that guy's BB shell looks like after having that chain digging into it when he tightens the cog...

I'm all for lockrings; maybe conventional of me, but track hubs are nice anyway and I feel like the thought of sudden death never enters my mind.

lockring discussion aside...why not just use a chain whip? hah..

What a bunch of rubbish!

I'm all for lockrings; maybe conventional of me, but track hubs are nice anyway and I feel like the thought of sudden death never enters my mind.

Agreed. The guy on FGG (http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2004/g/bellino.htm) who advocates this weird method seems to think that less is more in all circumstances, suggesting that he would forego a lockring even if he had a cog with reverse threads. I am not so foolhardy, but if someone could convince me that this super-torque method really works, I might use it on a regular hub to create a low-cost fixed wheel. However, in light of several bits of first-hand negative testimony above, I'll stick with the track hubs. (Did you notice, by the way, that the guy's bike, in addition to not having a lockring, has no brakes and no toe-clips? Seems like his goal is to eliminate every possible method of stopping his bike, short of this one (http://nsembilan.jkr.gov.my/RoadNews/oldbr8.jpg).)

Theres no room on my converted hub for a lockring, then again I have a front brake and don't even know how to skid stop so, I think I'll be alright.

In the context of street riding, that article is ridiculous. I admit, the method described is a nice trick for track riders who don't have a chain whip, as long as you wrap a rag around the bb shell. Think about it though: While it may be "possible to apply a tightening torque much greater than that available using a chain whip" you are never going to be able to apply more torque than you do with your legs while riding on the street, especially brakeless. That's why lockrings sometimes need to be tightened after use of a new wheel, the act of riding puts torque on the cog that you will not be able to exert with you hands. Only backpedal, skip, or skid without a lockring if you want to get hurt or die.

In the context of street riding, that article is ridiculous. I admit, the method described is a nice trick for track riders who don't have a chain whip, as long as you wrap a rag around the bb shell. Think about it though: While it may be "possible to apply a tightening torque much greater than that available using a chain whip" you are never going to be able to apply more torque than you do with your legs while riding on the street, especially brakeless. That's why lockrings sometimes need to be tightened after use of a new wheel, the act of riding puts torque on the cog that you will not be able to exert with you hands. Only backpedal, skip, or skid without a lockring if you want to get hurt or die.

And even then its not gaurenteed, its possible to get away with it, but that one time you don't...WHAM!!!

The handle of your chain whip clamped horizontally in the jaws of a vice wont stretch your chain or chip the paint of your BB shell or gall your dropout.

The handle of your chain whip clamped horizontally in the jaws of a vice wont stretch your chain or chip the paint of your BB shell or gall your dropout.

I would be surprised if this stretched the chain... chain "stretch" is the wearing of grooves in the pins, not an elastic property of the chain. But I don't doubt the other two :D

guys I'm pretty sure this method is more for trackracing.
On the track if you spin off your cog its not a big deal.
Me: I'd slap a lockring for the trip to the velodrome.

jeff

i've been using a suicide wheel, (normal freewheel hub, track cog and an english BB lockring) on my street ride for a while now, lots of loctite, and i cranked down the cog before the lockring was installed, haven't had any problems and i ride pretty aggressively, lots of skids and skipping. its been solid, but i know i'm asking for trouble, and it'll fail one of these days, hopefully not before i build up a new track wheel for it.


Same setup here- and those NICE freewheel hubs are almost being given away these days... who says it will really fail someday??

Its possible it won't, and it may outlive me,
but, its very possible the hub will strip it the threads get to weak,
i'm not a metalurgist, so i can't say when or if it'll fail,
i'm just hoping i'm not on it if it does :)
agreed on the old hubs, i have several sets of high flange road copies of campy hubs, basically given to me, i think i paid 5 or 6 bucks a peice.
they work great and ride nice

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=79737

I just screwed my cog on, then stuck it in a vice (so the wheel was parallel to the ground) then cranked as hard as I could.

I just screwed my cog on, then stuck it in a vice (so the wheel was parallel to the ground) then cranked as hard as I could.

This, along with loctite, is the method I use for old freewheel hubs where there is no room for a lockring. In a lot cases these hubs have a better chance of holding onto the cog than some of the cheap "track" hubs do. They are often built more solidly than the "jrs".


I have sacrificial wooden inserts in my vice that hold the cog very secure and then use the wheel to tighten it. Pedal all you want you will not get the cog on tighter. The cog is bottomed out. Back pedaling to slow down probably exerts more pressure on the cog than skidding does and I have yet to have one come loose from it.

Using a front brake with this setup is a viable and affordable way for some people to get into fixed gear riding.

Riding brakeless as a newbie is rediculous. Riding brakeless as a veteran is even more so. You should know better...

Using a front brake with this setup is a viable and affordable way for some people to get into fixed gear riding.

Riding a ghetto hub setup as a newbie is also ridiculous. As a vet, even more so.

Bottom line: you can get a complete rear wheel for $100 that's better than Suzue Jr. quality. If you're just looking at buying a hub, the cost difference between a NOS freewheel hub and the proper track hub is even less. Getting into fixed gear riding isn't worth saving $50 at the risk of rolling the dice on your cog unthreading in traffic.

Riding a ghetto hub setup as a newbie is also ridiculous. As a vet, even more so.

Bottom line: you can get a complete rear wheel for $100 that's better than Suzue Jr. quality. If you're just looking at buying a hub, the cost difference between a NOS freewheel hub and the proper track hub is even less. Getting into fixed gear riding isn't worth saving $50 at the risk of rolling the dice on your cog unthreading in traffic.


$0 vs $100 for a complete rear wheel or a new hub plus the cost of having a wheel built is not trivial to a lot of people that would like to try fixed gear riding. I am in no way saying this should be your first choice for building up a fixed gear bike. But if you are in a situation where you have to work with what you have on hand, this can be done. My main commuter was like this for three months. I ride hard and there are several hills on my commute, depending on the route I chose. I never felt like I was taking my life in my hands any more than any other day I ride in traffic. My chances of getting hit by a soccer mom in a mini van full of screaming kids, talking on her cell phone are greater than the chances of my cog spinning off. I'll send you the wheel, you try and get it off.

I hear people on this and other forums stating this should never be done, but the only proof I read is from people who have done it and it worked. I have read the accounts of cogs spinning off and the resulting diggers, but it never coincided with the method I am suggesting.

If you have the cash, build a new wheel with a track hub. It is the best way to go. I do not think anyone in their right mind would argue that point. If you would like to give fixed gear riding a try before investing your hard earned cash on a new wheel this is one alternative. Use your brakes! It's common sense...

I'm a big advocate for track hubs. to all the people riding suicide wheels- after you have adjusted your headset properly, and had to tighten it later down the line? your rear hub is riding on the same principle. Granted it does work-for awhile. secondly, loctite is not an amazing bonding-welding agent. it is simply viscous epoxy.
i've been riding brakeless for 8 years and have seen that system fail many times.
my two cents

I hear people on this and other forums stating this should never be done, but the only proof I read is from people who have done it and it worked. I have read the accounts of cogs spinning off and the resulting diggers, but it never coincided with the method I am suggesting.

If you have the cash, build a new wheel with a track hub. It is the best way to go. I do not think anyone in their right mind would argue that point. If you would like to give fixed gear riding a try before investing your hard earned cash on a new wheel this is one alternative. Use your brakes! It's common sense...

I hear you- I don't even THINK about mine spinning off. I keep extra wheels around simply because it is next to impossible to swap cogs.

I find it almost amusing that the same people who say it is dangerous are likely the same sort who think I'm a sissy for running a front brake (on my commuter, no less) or that I shouldn't be wearing a lid.

It's a fine way to get started, by which I mean that it might be ok to ride that for a week or so. Tentatively. Not in traffic.

Point blank: if you could make a freewheel hub that could take a cog and some sort of lock ring and reliably not come apart, there wouldn't be track hubs out there.

does rider weight have nothing to do with this discussion? note- it is an italian on a small bike that thinks this is the bees knees..