Touring - LHT Sizing for a Newbie

I need some advise. I started riding again after 40 years and over the last 5 months I've put 1500 miles on a Trek Navigator 2. I've decided I want to move up to a touring bike and fancy the Long Haul Trucker, I just don't know what size to buy. I'm 6'-0" tall with a pubic bone measurement of 34.25". All the research I've done online suggest that I should probably be on 58cm frame.

I rode a 58cm LHT at the LBS today and it felt like I was stretched out to much when I was on the hoods. I told this to the guy at the shop and he said I could put a shorter stem on it. I also rode a 56cm Crosscheck as it has the same top tube length as the 56 LHT and it felt more comfortable, but maybe a bit small. when I would pedal off the saddle the steering seemed squirrely.

I also road a 57cm Jamis Aurora that seemed ok fit wise, but out of my budget.

None of the 3 bikes was terribly uncomfortable, I just don't know what I should be looking for by just taking a short ride. I'm afraid the 58 is the right size, but it just feels like I'm stretched out because I'm used to the upright position of the comfort bike I've been riding. I'm guessing that the 56 crosscheck became unstable as I got out of the saddle because it is too small for me and my weight was shifting too far forward.

I wanted to talk to the guy at the shop some more, but while I was out riding, a hot blonde came in bike shopping and I suddenly became invisible.

I know fit is subjective, but I'm lost at this point and any advise will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help!

What size bike do you ride now? do you own a tape measure ?

take data on the 2 bikes to see what may be different in the fit.

you might just have to change the stem or something.

i assume you like the fit on the bike you currently ride. after all, you state that you've ridden 1500 miles in the last five months. so it's a starting point in my book.

as has been mentioned. take a few measurements on it. the middle of the crank spindle to the saddle rail is a good start. and the middle of the seatpost at the saddle rail to the middle of the handlebar where it is attached to the stem, is another. then as been mentioned, compare it to bikes that you are looking to purchase.

in my experience fitting is very personal and varies throughout ones riding career. let experience be your guide. you are unlikely to hit the nail on the head the first time. be patient.

if you are completely lost, i would recommend going to at least three or more LBS's and ask each what size frame they would recommend, then assume the average of them is not too far off the mark. it's probably better than adhering to one approach no matter how compelling it may be.

I'm 6'4". I don't know my pubic bone height but my inseam is 36". I bought a 62cm LHT frame and built it up. I bought a long stem. The first time I rode the bike I felt like it was a long stretch to the bars. I also felt they were a little low. I found another stem on Amazon that had a much steeper angle - it is higher, but not so far out in front. Now it seems perfect.

I'd guess the 58 would be perfect for you, and you can tweak the reach with your choice of stem, and how you slide the saddle fore or aft.

All good suggestions but also keep in mind that different handlebars have different reach. If you prefer riding on the hoods you may need a shorter stem and possibly a short reach handlebar.

Probably best to go with the 58, ride it awhile, and then begin doing the tweaks to dial it in just right. Lots of ways to adjust effective tt length.

You may still be tweaking after a couple of thousand miles. I was. Finally I tweaked myself onto a bent which fit perfectly out the gate.

What size bike do you ride now? do you own a tape measure ?

take data on the 2 bikes to see what may be different in the fit.

you might just have to change the stem or something.

Below is the bike I'm riding now. It has been great, but it starts to become uncomfortable after 20 miles or so. Uncomfortable being knee pain and numb hands. I was hoping a touring bike would give me comfort for longer rides with drop bars giving me more hand positions.

http://web2wear.com/images/upright.png

I measured the bike I have from the center of the head tube to the center of the seat tube along a horizontal line and it is 23.5 inches. The 58 LHT effective top tube is 23.1 inches and on the 56cm LHT it's 22.4 inches, but because the Trek and the LHT are so different I'm not sure this dimension is telling me anything.

I think coming from this upright position, I just don't know how a drop bar bike should feel. Is the stretched out feeling on the 58cm frame what I should expect on a bike that fits? If I ride a bike that fits should it be like a light bulb going off telling me "this is the one" or would it be something I need to get used to. The 58cm felt big and the 56 felt closer to what I'm used to, but small. Neither one had the feeling that I had found the right fit, leaving me lost on what direction to go.

Again thanks for any help!

First, try adjusting that stem forward and down a bit. You're talking apples and oranges, and if your body is used to the upright apple, the drop bar orange is going to feel different.

If you've found a dealer who will work with you, try again (when there's not a hot blonde in the shop). Get them to put a shorter, higher stem on, or even an adjustable stem like what you've got now. You'll probably go through a few stems in the next few years as you adjust to a road bike. The initial goal would be to find something you can tolerate now, with the expectation that you'll want to go down and out as you get used to your new bike.

As for knee pain, it sounds like you may need to adjust your saddle height.

Surlys have really long top tubes. I think a 58 might be too big for you. I find a shorter top tube is really helpful for climbing and a more upright position is desirable for sightseeing. Imagine climbing a steep mountain road with panniers full of camping gear on the back, you'd need to get your weight over the front wheel to make it possible and a too-large frame is going to fight you in this regard. I would opt for a smaller frame with a riser stem and use drop bars with maximum drop dimension. I'm 6'2" and would be inclined to try a 56 LHT frame, or the smallest frame that didn't create toe overlap on the front wheel w/fender.

Your current ride looks uncomfortable to me. Too much weight on your seat. For a touring bike you want better weight distribution between your seat and hands, for example maybe equal weight distribution while riding on the hoods and a bias towards the front when you're in the drops. The worst most painful thing for drop handlebars is to be too stretched out. Having bars lower than the seat is quite comfortable if they're close enough, but not so close they hit your knees when you turn.

Back in the 60's and 70's drop-bar bicycle frames had different geometry, for example the seat tube could be 60cm but the top tube would be 55cm, but currently bikes tend to have same length tubes in both dimensions which is why you see really long seat posts compared to the old days.

I am 6'0", don't know my pubic bone measurement. I have what have been described as having "normal" proportions. 58 cm LHT is perfect for me. I didn't cut the stem until I had ridden it for a month, monkeyed with stem height and dialed in seat height, setback, etc.

Presuming your handle says you are in North Carolina, where are you and what shop are you working with? You should be able to swap stems and get a fit that works.

Mine is an all day ride in comfort. Very happy....

NC, is your seat in the proper position to begin with on your Trek?

NC, is your seat in the proper position to begin with on your Trek?
As far as I know it is. I have it set fore and aft so that the front of my knee is directly over the spindle when the the pedals are at 3 and 9. The height is set so that my leg is fully extended when the heel of my foot is on the pedal leaving a slight bend in my leg on the down stroke when the ball of my foot is on the pedal. Angle is set at what I found to be most comfortable. This has helped with knee pain, but it still gets me on longer rides. I would really like to get the frame sizing resolved so I can get on with ordering a LHT to fit up.

lht sizing data:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc%3Fkey%3Dpdb5rlL1ns0XLxM31WpvkCw&usg=AFQjCNG3foX0j_-Qux58IaS7GedejBsT4g

lht sizing data:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc%3Fkey%3Dpdb5rlL1ns0XLxM31WpvkCw&usg=AFQjCNG3foX0j_-Qux58IaS7GedejBsT4g

Yeah, I've seen that. All the data there suggests I go with a 58cm and that's the way I'm leaning at this point. It's just that the 58 had me feeling stretched out when I was on the hoods. I'm hoping that's just because I'm not used to drop bars and maybe a shorter stem will feel better. I surely hate to make a $1400 dollar mistake.

Yeah, I've seen that. All the data there suggests I go with a 58cm and that's the way I'm leaning at this point. It's just that the 58 had me feeling stretched out when I was on the hoods. I'm hoping that's just because I'm not used to drop bars and maybe a shorter stem will feel better. I surely hate to make a $1400 dollar mistake.

I'm not sure that the 58 cm is what you'll need. Here's why, I'm 6', I ride a 23" tourer (hair over 58 cm) yet my inseam is a little over 31.5". I have a 9 cm stem with a 56 cm TT. Your upper torso is shorter than mine and the LHT's TT is 2 cm longer than my Cannondale's. It'll require a pretty short stem to obtain a proper reach unless you also have long arms. Try to test ride a 56 cm or even a 54 cm frame to be sure.

Brad

I'm not sure that the 58 cm is what you'll need. Here's why, I'm 6', I ride a 23" tourer (hair over 58 cm) yet my inseam is a little over 31.5". I have a 9 cm stem with a 56 cm TT. Your upper torso is shorter than mine and the LHT's TT is 2 cm longer than my Cannondale's. It'll require a pretty short stem to obtain a proper effective TT length (reach) unless you also have long arms. Try to test ride a 56 cm or even a 54 cm frame to be sure.

Brad
That's got me thinking. The reach on the 58 was what I had a problem with and that is purely dependent on upper torso and arm length. So while my height and PBH may suggest a 58, my arm length is a much more critical factor as far as fitting TT which is all that matters as the stand over was fine.

Why is this so difficult? Back in the day you just picked out your schwinn varsity by what color you wanted. I'm thinking I need to go back to LBS and ride some more. Wish they had a 56 LHT. Only thing I had to go on was a 56 crosscheck. TT on it is the same as the LHT, any reason why I should not use the Crosscheck as a gauge?

FWIW I am also 6' with a little over a 34" inseam (pubic bone height). I feel that I have proportionally longer legs to the size of my torso. I ride a 58cm LHT, and the stock bike that I test rode also felt a little stretched out for me. When I built up my bike, a 90mm stem was used and I left the steerer tube on the long side to raise the bars higher. This combination tended to "tighten" things up. I have about 4000 miles of actual touring on this bike so far as well as a lot of training miles. I'm really happy with it. Talk to you LBS when you purchase the bike about leaving the steerer tube uncut until you get it dialed in and replacing the stem with a shorter one. Also ask him about a stem with greater angle, i.e., greater than 10 degrees. I'm not sure but, I think I used about a 10 degree stem. Also, where did the LBS have the height of the bars set in relation to the saddle height? What length stem?

This was taken during a test ride during the build. It still needed fenders, racks, and a new front wheel. Note how the short, angled stem combined with the longer steerer tube allowed me to raise the bars level to the saddle. It is a position that many tourers, including me, prefer. That is the height that I ultimately left my bars. After 2 years, I still have not cut off the excess steering tube. I'll get around to it sometime ;)

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy112/Doug64_photos/CoMo%20and%20LHT/DSC_0038-1-4.jpg

This is the completed build. My wife wanted my black pedals so guess who ended up with the white ones.:(

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy112/Doug64_photos/CoMo%20and%20LHT/DSC_0052-2.jpg

As far as I know it is. I have it set fore and aft so that the front of my knee is directly over the spindle when the the pedals are at 3 and 9. The height is set so that my leg is fully extended when the heel of my foot is on the pedal leaving a slight bend in my leg on the down stroke when the ball of my foot is on the pedal. Angle is set at what I found to be most comfortable. This has helped with knee pain, but it still gets me on longer rides. I would really like to get the frame sizing resolved so I can get on with ordering a LHT to fit up.

I would get hand pain with straight bars. Seems to me pdlamb is making a good observation that you are experienced an apples to oranges transition regarding bar to seat height change and not a frame/top tube issue. From what you've said a 58cm sounds right, i've got long arms and feet, ride a 56cm frame for 30yrs and I'm 5'9". It's a frame size I"ve used since I raced bikes from when the handlebars were 3 1/2" below the seat but now as I've gotten older/fatter the bars are 1" below the seat. You're starting with bars about 8" ABOVE the seat which might cause all kinds of issues in adjustment for your neck arms and back.

$.02 is the 58cm is a good choice but start with the bars at a similar distance from the seat as your old bars but not as high. You may go through a couple stems to get it right as your body adjusts. Sore knees could be anything, pushing high gears and not spinning, not warming up, cold weather. Drop bars don't become useful until they get lower and you're putting weight on your hands AND stretched out for better aerodynamics and breathing, which will bring other comfort issues for parts of your body not accustomed to that postion.
Roundabout way of saying that maybe drop bars aren't what you need but a more aerodynamic position or one suited to higher rpm pedaling and less gear mashing is what you need, drop bars may or may not be the way to get there.

Pay for a bike fit?

Doug64 has the right idea but I think he'll have to lower the bars a bit for really steep climbs. Here's another example of a touring bike for a tall person but using a smaller frame. This is what I'm aiming for on my next tourer build. I live in the mountains and need a good climber and N. Carolina as some pretty serious mountains too. http://maddogmedia.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/soma_dc_07122011.jpg (http://maddogmedia.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/soma_dc_07122011.jpg) Imagine this bike on a steep road and you'll see under that situation the bars and saddle would be about level with each other so long climbs would be comfortable. On flats you'd obviously loose some comfort so there is a compromise here. On descents it still works well because with the short reach you can hang off the back of the saddle and give your ass some relief.

It looks uncomfortable but when you're on it just works. In the old days we were taught to choose a bicycle frame based on the height of the top tube. Tall people needed frames with high top tubes. But if you choose a bike on the same criteria today it likely will be far too stretched out from bar to saddle. With current geometry it's better to choose a bike based on the top tube length.

In my opinion and experience hand pain comes from leaning against bars that are too far away. On bars that are lower but close your weight can be more evenly distributed between pedals, saddle, and grips. You can experiment changing weight distribution on your current ride by swapping out the bars for swept-back Nitto Albatross cruiser type bars with grips parallel to the frame and much closer to your saddle. Your knee pain might be caused by having too much weight on your pedals with that bar so high.

the need to physically go to where you can test ride a bike with ,
generally what setup you want cannot be overstated..
Go to a bike shop and try some drop bar bikes ..

you have a upright position, but still complain about hand pain..
one thought.. just deal with the multiple hand position thing, separately..
Trekking bars, well padded with thick tape or the premium grip/bar end set
Ergon makes a good product, GC3, a good one..

drop bars as high as the saddle will put more weight on you hands,
you might need a bunch of push-ups to strengthen
the muscles that will hold up your torso with your arms for, hours....

Or [cue the recumbent bike owners]

maybe you want one of these,

236195

three or four of these
236196236196236196

and a couple of these

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0711-slurpee/10429888-1-eng-US/0711-slurpee_full_380.jpg

i've never found a problem with "fit" on these thing!:roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2:

maybe you want one of these,

236195

three or four of these
236196236196236196

and a couple of these

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0711-slurpee/10429888-1-eng-US/0711-slurpee_full_380.jpg

i've never found a problem with "fit" on these thing!:roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2:

Hmmm, not sure I understand. Are you trying to be helpful in some way? If so, I don't get it.

it's a joke. it's not intended to be helpful, loosen up a little.

my well considered and thoughtful post was up a bit. the lastest one was triggered by another's recommendation of a "bent" (always a target of opportunity on many forums).

it's a joke. it's not intended to be helpful, loosen up a little.

my well considered and thoughtful post was up a bit. the lastest one was triggered by another's recommendation of a "bent" (always a target of opportunity on many forums). I'm pretty laid back, I just didn't understand your post. Even after your explanation of humor, I still don't get it, but I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box either. I'm just trying to avoid ending up like this guy:

http://web2wear.com/images/bikefit.jpg

I'm pretty laid back, I just didn't understand your post. Even after your explanation of humor, I still don't get it, but I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box either. I'm just trying to avoid ending up like this guy:

http://web2wear.com/images/bikefit.jpg

that's a situation well worth avoiding.

Pay for a bike fit?
I made some calls today and found a shop that caters to triathletes, They charge $150 for fitting which seems kind of steep to me? What do you guy think, is it worth it?

My wife's tri bike is set up differentlly than her touring bike. Both were fitted by a physical therapist who also specializes in bike fitting. She has leg length differences, and fit is critical. You might ask if they have fit for touring before. You will have to know what position you will be the most comfortable in before they can crunch their numbers. She even took her new custom built touring bike in and had it fitted.:rolleyes:

I'm 6'4 and bought the 62. The one I rode in the shop also seemed stretched out for me coming from a flat bar road bike. It was a more aggressive riding position than what you have but not as much as the LHT was with drops. Bars were about 1.5 inches above the seat on that bike. When building my LHT frame I put a steep 17 deg. stem, put it at the top of the fork and put on treking bars so as I stretch out past the stem my hands go up in height in relation to the stem instead of down onto the hoods. I also get numb hands but mine come from something getting pinched in my neck not hand positions etc. When I start to feel them getting numb I sit up straight and do a few head rolls, tilt side to side to loosen things up a little and they go away for a while.

I made some calls today and found a shop that caters to triathletes, They charge $150 for fitting which seems kind of steep to me? What do you guy think, is it worth it?

It doesn't sound unreasonable, but it would be worth interviewing them to make sure they do non-triathlon bike fits, the tri fit is really different from the road fit, which may be different from a touring fit. If they aren't experienced in fitting for a variety of uses, I would keep trying to find someone who is.

I think I paid $350 for mine, which was a medical bike fit, but local shops cost $100 and up depending on the level of service and training. Specialized dealers have a comprehensive system developed by the sports medicine group that I had my fit done at, try to find a Specialized dealer and ask about their services, or Retul is another "chain store" bike fitting system that's supposed to be good.

This could all be overkill for you, but if you're going to spend serious time on the bike, IMO it's worth having a great fit.

(edit - to put my comments in perspective, i'm a bike tourist but I'm also a very avid road cyclist, and will start racing this year. I ride about 8000 miles/year.)

Not all bikes are designed for all people. It's been my experience that the Surly LHT is NOT for long legged short torso people. I know because I'm one of them. Don't try to make something fit that wasn't designed for you. Short stems affect handling, small frames can make you look like a circus bear, and the wrong fit can cause all kinds of aches and pains. I think you should revisit the Aurora if it fit. It fit me better. Personally, so far anyway, I've stuck to old school geometry with a Nitto Technomic and Dirt Drop stems. Don't let a few extra hundred dollars sway your decision. These bikes are built to last a lifetime and you can easily spend more trying to make a bike that doesn't fit ... fit.

I made some calls today and found a shop that caters to triathletes, They charge $150 for fitting which seems kind of steep to me? What do you guy think, is it worth it?

if you plan on being a triathlete with cleated shoes putting out max hp in the best aerodynamic position where you are low and elbows in. Have you ridden with your bars at a lower position than shown on the pic of your bike?

I'm 6' and ride the 56cm LHT. I have a fairly short stem with the handlebars just a little higher than the seat.

It still feels a little more stretched out than I'd like.
I'm toying with the idea of putting on some handlebars with less reach...
But I can spend several hours in the saddle without getting uncomfortable.

Anyways the 56 doesn't feel too small for me if that's what you're worried about.

if you plan on being a triathlete with cleated shoes putting out max hp in the best aerodynamic position where you are low and elbows in. Have you ridden with your bars at a lower position than shown on the pic of your bike?

More research shows the shop that quoted me a fitting uses the FIST system for triathletes which I doubt is going to provide good info for an old man on a touring bike. I had not tried lowering the bars on by comfort bike until just a few minutes ago. I adjusted the stem to a horizontal position and lowered it as much as possible. With just a short test ride down the street I felt stretched out like on the 58cm LHT. I'm going to take it for a longer ride tomorrow and see if that tells me anything. Thanks for the suggestion!

I'm 6' and ride the 56cm LHT. I have a fairly short stem with the handlebars just a little higher than the seat.

It still feels a little more stretched out than I'd like.
I'm toying with the idea of putting on some handlebars with less reach...
But I can spend several hours in the saddle without getting uncomfortable.

Anyways the 56 doesn't feel too small for me if that's what you're worried about.

Out of curiosity, what is your inseam measurement and do you know your wingspan? If I hold my arms out to the sides I measure 74" from the tip of each longest finger on one arm to the other.

I think Nobodyetal might have it dialed in for us long legged, short torso folks. I just found a Fit Kit fitting I had done in 2002. My vital stats, at least the ones that mean anything to me off this sheet show my inseam a 88.75 cm or very close to 35" and my height is right at 6'. The arm length and other measurements are "corrected", so I really don't know what they mean. I would have scanned the whole thing, but my wife is preparing a presentation on that computer. If you are interested I can get you a copy. It was also a fit for a road bike where the seat would be higher than the saddle.

The reason I think he is right is the recommendations that came from the fit were a 56cm top tube with an 80mm mm stem, or "looked good" on a 55 cm with a 110mm stem. This was combined with a 58cm seat tube length. Unfortunately, They don't make any stock bikes that I know of with that geometry.

The LHT 58cm has an effective top tube of 58.6, and the 56cm frame has an effective top tube of 57.0cm. This is only about 0.63" difference between the 58cm and the 56cm frames. With an 80mm stem, I am only .25" off from most stretched out recommendation. The 56cm might have worked just as well or even a little better.

If it would help you, I can also take a wing span measurement, and maybe with a little interpolation you can dial it in a little closer. I also have a a 58cm Bianchi Volpe that has a proportionally shorter top tube, and that is the reason I bought it. It has been a good touring bike, and I'm considering it for our next this summer.

A couple of shots my wife took last summer (2900 mile ride). I would not call that stretched out at all (58cm LHT w/80mm stem). Bar height has a lot to do with it. PS. That is not my stomach, it is my camera tucked inside my jersey. I was down to 150 at that stage of the ride:)
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy112/Doug64_photos/Europe%202011/DSCN7755-1.jpg

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy112/Doug64_photos/Europe%202011/DSCN7552-1.jpg

>>Nobodyetal wrote:

>>"I'm '6 and ride the 56cm LHT. I have a fairly short stem with the handlebars just a little higher than the seat.
>>It still feels a little more stretched out than I'd like."


How's the clearance between your toes and the front fender?

Notice how Trek's touring frame has the old-school shorter top-tube geometry: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/520#/us/en/model/fit_sizing?url=us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/520

I'm 5'11.5" tall and ride a 56 cm 26 in LHT. My pbh is right around 31", I am pretty comfy with no real too overlap an My feet are size 14. I am sure that doesn't help but I just had to chime in.

Notice how Trek's touring frame has the old-school shorter top-tube geometry: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/520#/us/en/model/fit_sizing?url=us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/520

Excellent point! The 57 cm frame could be a great choice for the OP.

Brad

>>Nobodyetal wrote:

>>"I'm '6 and ride the 56cm LHT. I have a fairly short stem with the handlebars just a little higher than the seat.
>>It still feels a little more stretched out than I'd like."

How's the clearance between your toes and the front fender?

It's fine unless I try to turn!
Heh heh.
Seriously though I get toe strike if I'm moving slowly and turning sharply.
But I've just learned how to scoot my toe back on the pedal to avoid the fender.
But it really doesn't happen that often.
I sometimes wish I'd gotten the 26" version instead of 700c but it doesn't bug me enough to actually do anything about it. :)

I want to thank everyone for your suggestions and comments, they've been very helpful. I went back to the bike shop and did some more riding. Tried a 57cm Trek 520 and it just felt too small which I hated because they had a 2011 for $999.00 which I though was a good deal.

I also got hooked up with a salesperson with quite a bit of touring experience as she has been coast to coast and border to border touring. I felt very comfortable that the info I was getting was based on experience. She took some measurements and said we should start out with the 58cm LHT. She adjusted the saddle and had me ride. It was amazing how much different it felt with just a slight saddle adjustment. Then she suggested we put on a shorter stem, which she did and it seems we hit the sweet spot. It felt very comfortable and I'm sure it put a huge smile on my face. Quite a change from the first day I rode it.

There was no 56 LHT to test ride, but both the salesperson and myself felt the 58cm was right. So unless I find a 56cm to test ride and change my mind, the 58cm is the one I'm going to go with.

Now the bad news, the 2012 models won't be available until mid March and I'm still stuck with the decision of whether to go with the standard trucker or the disc brake model for a few hundred more.

What do you guys think? The standard LHT is $1319 and the Disc Trucker is $1599. Are the disc brakes worth the extra expense?

What do you guys think? The standard LHT is $1319 and the Disc Trucker is $1599. Are the disc brakes worth the extra expense?

This can be a polarizing question and I'm in the "No, they aren't required." camp.

Brad

I like the simplicity of rim brakes and they can be used to true your wheels on the frame, but for mountainous singletrack disks are great. Also with rim brakes you'll notice immediately if your rear wheel starts to bend and can stop to correct it.