Classic & Vintage - Removing and replacing riveted headbadge?

Does anybody have advice? I have an older Raleigh mixte I'm going to have powdercoated before rebuilding. I want to remove the headbadge before and reattach it after. Does anybody have experience with this before I hack it up by accident?

Marc

I glad you ask that question because I also wanted to know. The rivets are usually fairly soft metal and I'm sure we will need to use a drill with a very sharp bit.

Funny, I just finished putting the badge back on my SuperCourse.
No clue if it's the right way, but here's what I've done twice:
I ground the rivets out from inside the tube with a dremel so I wouldn't mess up the tube.
To reinstall, I got some very short brass 4-40 screws and tapped the holes. I epoxied the screws in place, then ground them down with the dremel to give clearance for the steerer tube. Shortest screws I could find at Sears Hardware were 3/16".

i have good look using a long flat screw driver and pushing them out from the inside, then you can reuse them.

Depends on the attachment hardware. Hollow rivets? Drive screws with solid heads? I think Raleigh used hollow rivets, eh? Either way, the safest way is to grind off the head, very carefully, with a Dremel. Without hitting the badge. Finding replacement drive screws can be a bit difficult but they're available.

I used a sharp drill bit to remove the headbadge of my Dawes Double Blue, then successfully reattached it with the right size drive screws from McMaster-Carr. They're basically little headless screws with a dome head--no slot--and helical threads. You just tap them in. Very neat. Not sure how easy they will be to remove next time, though.

Depends on the attachment hardware. Hollow rivets? Drive screws with solid heads? I think Raleigh used hollow rivets, eh? Either way, the safest way is to grind off the head, very carefully, with a Dremel. Without hitting the badge. Finding replacement drive screws can be a bit difficult but they're available.

The rivets on my Raleigh aren't hollow but I do think they are aluminum.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/cutacroshorty/Raleigh%20Sport/RaleighSport10.jpg

I used a sharp drill bit to remove the headbadge of my Dawes Double Blue, then successfully reattached it with the right size drive screws from McMaster-Carr. They're basically little headless screws with a dome head--no slot--and helical threads. You just tap them in. Very neat. Not sure how easy they will be to remove next time, though.

What do you do if the hole ends up a little larger by the time you get the rivet out, maybe because of rust? Do they offer oversize rivets?

Yes, your options are; 1.)File 2.)Drill or 3.)Chiesel. You can drill if, the rivet is a rivet (hollow) works well.
Or, if solid rivet, I would try the corner of a cold chiesel very carefully. The rivets are made of soft alluminum and will have a lot of give. This works well with a few (3) taps of a small hammer. Use the corner as not to scratch the headbadge when the rivets separate. The drill bit on a solid rivet (even if you center punch it) will want to walk because the alluminum rivet is so mallueable. The file just scratches everything. Don't do that.236067

I have drilled OFF the heads of all types of rivets, from the head-side with just a plain sharp bit larger in diameter than the head. You have to center-punch anything other than an eyelet (which has a hole in the center) so the bit doesn't wander, and you need "the touch" so you stop just before you hit the badge itself.
Drive Screws are available from this place in Pacoima, in "work hole" sizes as small as 0.52" which is smaller than 1/16" (size 00):
http://www.hansonrivet.com/w58.htm

Thanks Unworthy1. Great website! I bookmarked that one right away. Thx.

What do you do if the hole ends up a little larger by the time you get the rivet out, maybe because of rust? Do they offer oversize rivets?

I personally prefer a tiny bit in a hand-held grinder, Silvercreek. More control. But not everyone has a Dremel tool I guess.
I suppose you could clean up the hole and order some proper size drive screws to fit.

What do you do if the hole ends up a little larger by the time you get the rivet out, maybe because of rust? Do they offer oversize rivets?

I should have mentioned that mine originally had hollow rivets--very easy and painless to drill out, provided you didn't use too large a drill bit.
Drive screws are available in a great many sizes. You want to choose one that will fill the hole in the badge pretty much completely, but not too large to be slipped in by hand. The holes in the headtube, on the other hand, need to be slightly smaller that the OD of the drive screws so they will hold when driven into place. Suppliers have should have a chart that tells you what size bit is required for a given size screw. It's easy--getting the old rivets out is the potentially tricky part.
Some forum members like to just fasten the badge to the head tube with silicone or some such, and then cement a couple of spoke heads into the holes to look like rivets. I have never tried that approach.

On my bikes, I file down the heads of the original rivets with careful and judicious use of a rotary tool cutting disk, until I can tap the rivet spine out the back of the head tube. I replace them with faux rivets-- essentially the heads of small brass nails, glued in place:

This is a Raleigh headbadge that I used this technique on, to give you some idea of how this can turn out on your Raleigh mixte:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2763/4335135680_0b6e921e68_b.jpg

I've applied the same technique to other headbadges, as well:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3655/4636657923_25a542c3a8_b.jpg

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4037/4201488970_bd383c8e50_b.jpg

I always glue the headbadges back on, and glue the faux rivets separately.

Take the fork out and file or grind off the backs of the rivets inside the head tube. To reinstall, either re-rivet or tap the holes to accept small brass screws.

I've done a couple, always with solid, soft aluminum rivets. With a drill and a tiny bit, I drill a guide hole in the center of the rivet, then a slightly larger one, about the size of the rivet hole. If you do it exactly right, the rivet head spins off just before (OK, as) the bit reaches the badge.

A fine touch for sure. The first one I did that way because try as I might, I could not remove enough material from inside the head tube to get them to pop out. Second one was habit.

On my bikes, I file down the heads of the original rivets with careful and judicious use of a rotary tool cutting disk, until I can tap the rivet spine out the back of the head tube. I replace them with faux rivets-- essentially the heads of small brass nails, glued in place:

This is a Raleigh headbadge that I used this technique on, to give you some idea of how this can turn out on your Raleigh mixte:
Ou Ty
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2763/4335135680_0b6e921e68_b.jpg

I've applied the same technique to other headbadges, as well:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3655/4636657923_25a542c3a8_b.jpg

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4037/4201488970_bd383c8e50_b.jpg

I always glue the headbadges back on, and glue the faux rivets separately.

Gasp!
I'm suffering some serious headbadge envy.

Marc

I drilled them out. To reattach, I got tiny stainless machine screws (I think they were 1mm size) barely long enough to fit a hex nut after passing through the badge and headtube. Since they were so tiny, the nuts were thin enough that they didn't interfere with the steerer.

I bought a 71 SuperCourse Frame which had been completely stripped including the headbadge. After powder coating, I bought a NOS badge online and riveted it on with the smallest aluminum rivets I could find. Heres how it looks.
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww84/CMC2020/DSC01846.jpg
It's a little bit off center, but I think thats because it's not the proper badge for my year bike and I used the existing rivet holes. I wish now I had thought (Like SouthPawBoston) to glue it on.

I always try to remove them from the inside as I know I would have some kind of mishap and destroy the head badge with my luck. To reinstall I always used small brass screws when I could, but I want to try the drive screws now that I know what they are and where to get them from. I don't have any pics of some I replaced but I will in the future. I also like the idea of gluing them back into place and trying to reuse the old rivet heads or something similar. I save the head badge screws from frames that used them when the frame proves to be toast, mostly the little Schwinn screws.

Removing the rivets is fairly simple, just be careful. I don't try to save them though.
I reattach the headbadge with screws from cassette tapes. I don't use them much any more and they are easily found. Good luck.

I've always have had good luck with a Jewelers hammer and a very sharp chisel. A couple taps and the head is gone. Drive screws for replacements.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll get ou the dremel and cross myfingers.

Marc

Does anyone know what the original size of the rivets on a Raleigh Sports? I don't have any way of measuring the hole.

I drilled out the hollow rivets on my Raleigh and reattached the headbadge using stainless hollow (pop) rivets from McMaster-Carr.