Classic & Vintage - Ciocc Pronunciation?

Ciocc Pronunciation. I believe in Italian the "c" is like Cinelli, and the "cc" is like "K". So it should sound like "choke". What do you think?

I'm staying out of this one.

1) my tongue won't go where it's needed for this word.
2) the other pronunciation thread got too ugly for me.

Kind of like "Chyoq". The terminal /k/ sound isn't particularly hard, and the /y/ is kind of short. Central Italian slang for 'Drunkard.'

Kind of like "Chyoq". The terminal /k/ sound isn't particularly hard, and the /y/ is kind of short. Central Italian slang for 'Drunkard.'

go right to the source for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJHwPqn2jY0
thanks to Rory you can hear The Man himself pronounce it!

See-oh-ch. Bee-on-kee. Poo-joe. Si-nelly.

Glad to be of service in matters linguistic.

See-oh-ch. Bee-on-kee. Poo-joe. Si-nelly.

Glad to be of service in matters linguistic.

You got the pronunciation of Bianchi right. Otherwise, I hope you're joking.

Someone here, I think, posted a video with the correct pronunciation of Ciöcc which is, apparrently, a nonsens nick-name that has been used for 3 or 4 generations in the family. Seems that it's almost pronounced like "church" in Queens English (that is, no "r"), only the "u" is very short. Crazy Italians. Or perhaps the guy was just pulling our legs.

Ah, the video is right there in post #4. Sorry.

See-oh-ch. Bee-on-kee. Poo-joe. Si-nelly.

Glad to be of service in matters linguistic.

Chee-nelllllllllih. ;)

halfway between 'church' and 'chooch'.

Signore Pelizzoli claimed that the word has "no meaning", just a nickname...I've heard it said to mean "poker-face", but not buying that 100% (how popular is poker in Italy: clearly they play cardgames and gamble but do they even have such an expression?) and also that it's a bit more rude than that, but...the guy who has lived in Italy and speaks Italian fluently (Citoyen du Monde) once said he has no familiarity with Bergamo regional dialect or slang, which is apparently what the word "Ciöcc" is.
I can tell you that if you pronounce "chooch" in front of certain Central/South Americans (Columbians for sure) you'll be using a pretty dirty insult.

i've always pronounced it to rhyme with "coach" and "roach", with an h sound up front...

I can tell you that if you pronounce "chooch" in front of certain Central/South Americans (Columbians for sure) you'll be using a pretty dirty insult.
Yeah, choose your audience wisely. I once told a Norwegian she was astute. I thought I was going to get slapped.

Think of a train, Choo Choo! But drop that last "oooh". Chooch.

Thanks, chooch.

Thanks, chooch.
In Italian, the word that sounds like "chooch" means something derogatory, so be-careful to whom you say it too.

Signore Pelizzoli claimed that the word has "no meaning", just a nickname...I've heard it said to mean "poker-face", but not buying that 100% (how popular is poker in Italy: clearly they play cardgames and gamble but do they even have such an expression?) and also that it's a bit more rude than that, but...the guy who has lived in Italy and speaks Italian fluently (Citoyen du Monde) once said he has no familiarity with Bergamo regional dialect or slang, which is apparently what the word "Ciöcc" is.
I can tell you that if you pronounce "chooch" in front of certain Central/South Americans (Columbians for sure) you'll be using a pretty dirty insult.

Bergamo being in northern Italy, close to Switzerland, could it be a Swiss-German word, or a corruption of one?

Edit + clarification: The "ö" is pronounced as a German "o + umlaut". I don't think the trema is used in Italian.

Choache right?

But just how does one pronounce Bucket?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_f84eteHLU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1_f84eteHLU#t=26s

I really have to learn how to embedd or whatever it is you do to just copy the video

I made a blunder along similar lines last summer with the Quetico park rangers when they asked what lakes I was going to camp on, and they happened to be "Faquier" and "Dumas"

Choache right?

But just how does one pronounce Bucket?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_f84eteHLU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1_f84eteHLU#t=26s

I really have to learn how to embedd or whatever it is you do to just copy the video

Copy the whole link from the address bar click insert video and just paste the link in there and voila.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_f84eteHLU

Bergamo being in northern Italy, close to Switzerland, could it be a Swiss-German word, or a corruption of one?

Edit + clarification: The "ö" is pronounced as a German "o + umlaut". I don't think the trema is used in Italian.

Yes. They are close to the German border, so pronounce it like it was 'Germanic Italian.'

The youtube video is quite clear: it's 'chuh-ch' (but all together, no significant pause between the syllables).

It ain't 'choach' or 'choke.'

Chee-nelllllllllih. ;)

Tried that. Made my face hurt.

Oh yeah, and it's pronounced OO-nuh-vee-guh. I know -cause I have two of them, a Super Strada and a Gran Turismo.

I had a Ciocc for a while, sold it to Henry III. Tried to sell it locally here in South Florida, you should have seen the faces on people when I told them what brand it was......( it sounds like a very nasty word here in Miami)

I think to pronounce Ciocc, you just turn your head and cough.

go right to the source for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJHwPqn2jY0
thanks to Rory you can hear The Man himself pronounce it!

No need to go any further than this!


Bergamo being in northern Italy, close to Switzerland, could it be a Swiss-German word, or a corruption of one?

Edit + clarification: The "ö" is pronounced as a German "o + umlaut". I don't think the trema is used in Italian.

Umlaut is a German word which literally means modified spoken sound. In German, the vowels with umlaut are generally replaced by the vowel and the letter E (i.e. ö becomes oe). Tréma is the French equivalent. In France it is generally used to indicate that the particular vowel carrying the tréma is to be repeated. So the writer Anaïs Nin would have pronounced her name A-nai-is (with the "is" syllable not having an exact correspondence in English). In Italian the two dots are known as a "dieresi", Hagen is correct that it is not used in Italy even if school children are taught of its existence. In fact, in continental Europe I have never come across anybody who is not aware of the existence of this pronunciation aid. In English, the "proper" technical term is dieresis, but it is not generally used so you will frequently see mention of umlaut or tréma in English.

The Bergamasque language/dialect is quite old and was distinct from Italian and more closely related to other romance languages. It was spoken by the Orobii Celts. Over time, the dialect has adopted more and more Italian words and what is spoken today is more readily understandable to most Italians. It does not however have any German roots.


They are close to the German border, so pronounce it like it was 'Germanic Italian.'



No part of Italy is near the German border and most definitely not Bergamo.

Umlaut is a German word which literally means modified spoken sound. ... Tréma is the French equivalent. ... In Italian the two dots are known as a "dieresi"...

Nomenclature aside, do you confirm that the vowel in Ciocc is pronounced like the German umlauted o?.



No part of Italy is near the German border...
Well no, but perhaps we are confusing political and linguistic borders. I think it would be fair to say that part of (political) Italy is near the (linguistic) German border, and some of it (South Tyrol) is even on the German side of that border.

Ciocc ain't here man.

http://www.awesomehq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/cheech-and-chong.jpg

Nomenclature aside, do you confirm that the vowel in Ciocc is pronounced like the German umlauted o?.


The name is simply nonsense as explained by the originator (who it should be noted is no longer the owner of the brand!) so trying to determine what influenced him seems pointless. The pronunciation of the whole name is definitely not German and your average German would not have any idea as to how to pronounce the combination of letters. It is a bit like Häagen Dazs, it is simply nonsensical but does evoke a certain feel. You would hear many different pronunciations if you presented the name to your average German. I can't think of any German word that combines iö. Furthermore to get the pronunciation accorded to it by Pelizzoli, in German you would likely need at least an S following the ö. The pronunciation of the ö does however seem to follow what your average Italian would be taught as being the way to pronounce the German ö.



...perhaps we are confusing political and linguistic borders. I think it would be fair to say that part of (political) Italy is near the (linguistic) German border, and some of it (South Tyrol) is even on the German side of that border.

As regards the linguistic situation of Bergamo, I am not very well-informed but do believe it is fair to say that the city of Bergamo has never been part of the region of German language influence, but that it has likewise been under Germanic rule at some time in its long history. Perhaps some of the very outlying Northern parts of the province of Bergamo might have felt a bit of influence of the German language but not the city. Typically, influence radiates out from the cities outward in Italy and not the other way around and there are some major physical barriers (lakes and mountains) between Bergamo and the areas of German language influence.

Ciocc ain't here man.

http://www.awesomehq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/cheech-and-chong.jpg

Given the beating I took commenting on the pronuciation of "Bottecchia" I was reluctant to post on the pronuciation of "Ciocc." Sig. Pelizzoli does pronounce it in the video, however, and his pronunciation sounds like "Ciocc" should be pronounced with the "ch" of "church" plus a diphthong consisting of a short "e" rapidly elided with an "oach" sound, as in "roach" or "coach," something like "chee-oach." Pelizzoli claims that this word "non significa nulla" "it doesn't mean nothing," with the sort of double negative that Italians often employ when they want to emphasize a negative statement. I have no idea what "ciocc" means, if anything. It might be a Northern italian dialect. There is a word in the Arzan Reggiano dialect that sounds a bit like this and means "blockhead," "dummy," or "moron." Some have suggested that "ciocc" means "poker-face," which could be cognate to "blockhead." Just my humble opinion. Only Pelizzoli knows for sure.

Nice place, Bergamo - lovely old town, accessible via a funicular, had a very pleasant afternoon there a few years back whilst waiting for an evening flight out from the airport. Great coffee.

Hey, How about some of our Italian members giving their opinion!

I think to pronounce Ciocc, you just turn your head and cough.

Robbie, I think you need to get a new doctor.