Bicycle Mechanics - Wheelbuilding: how hard is it really?

So I went down to one of my LBS today, all excited to buy the parts to build a new front wheel. I had previously bought an old clunker of a road bike, and my plan is to rebuild it part-by-part and learn in the process. Also, I'm going to be putting an internal hub on the rear wheel, so will either need to build that one or get it built, and I figured I could learn from the front wheel.

I had read articles online (http://www.troubleshooters.com/bicycles/wheelbuilding/index.htm) about the process, and decided that a 3-leading-3-trailing design looked both awesome and not so hard to build, from these nice step-by-step instructions (http://www.baldurdash.org/OtherStuff/3leading3trailing.html).

So, excited at the prospect, I tell the bike guy my plan and he shakes he head. "No. Building a wheel is really hard. You want to get a professional to do that." When I explain that learning was part of what was interesting to me, he sighs and says "well, I guess you could take a wheel building class at the local bike school."

He basically said that wheel building wasn't something that you could learn on your own. Also, he said that it wasn't worth investing that amount of time in my old bike.

So, question to people who have built a wheel before: Is it really impossible to learn how to build a wheel from instructions and YouTube videos? Or was this guy just a jerk?

I think it would be easier and with better results if you start with a standard 3-cross pattern. It is also easier to build from scratch instead of transferring one spoke at a time from an old build to a new build. I recommend that you start with instructions from the Jobst Brandt book, "The Bicycle Wheel" or similar online instructions from Sheldon Brown. I recommend that you not use instructions that suggest buying spokes extra long because you will likely run out of threads before reaching sufficient tension.

this guy was jerk your chain , wheelbuilding isn't all that hard . the hardest part is getting the right length in spokes . different hubs and rims sizes use different length . just follow the video you found and you'll be fine. sure when you are done with the wheel take it to the shop and let them check out your work .

If you are already proficient at bike maintenance in general, IMO wheelbuilding is not difficult. I built my first wheel using Sheldon's article and some online spoke length calculator and it came out fine. It is a bit of an art and your first wheel will probably not be perfect but everyone has to start somewhere.

If you've never touched a tool before I would not recommend wheelbuilding as your first project.

It might be really hard for him.:lol:

Everybody who learns to do it well has to put in
about the same amount of time and attention,
even if you take a class.

I'm teaching one right now in a symposium format
at the bike coop here. Some guys pick it up quickly,
some take a little longer.

Mostly the problem right now is that quality spokes are
way expensive, and machine assembled wheels as a
package are much cheaper.:(

But as you've found, you cannot buy the particular
wheels you want so you have to build them.

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/
Does a good job of explaining and accomplishing
spoke length calculations and measuring hubs and
rims.:thumb:

There are a couple of online sites that have Jobst
Brandt's book up. I won't link for fear of violating
some BF policy guidelines.

As others said, it's not difficult if you start with good quality parts and have some mechanical ability. Sheldon Brown's instructions and Spocalc calculator are very useful.

I agree with most of the sentiments above.

But from the bike guys point of view, it is possible he has seen more lousy first attempts at wheel building than good ones, and is just trying to not encourage another. If the OP was buying parts from him he also may feel liable if something (or the OP) is damaged do to an in-experienced build. Or as others have said maybe he personally sucks at it.

I wonder why some folks want to reinvent the wheel. 36 spoked, 3 cross wheels done right are a thing of beauty and boringly durable. :50:

Building wheels isn't that hard. Building good wheels, with the proper amount of balanced tension, takes patience and practice. I was building my own wheels without guidance soon after I was taught by a master mechanic. However, my first couple attempts had flaws- many times they loosened up on their own due to insufficient tension. Going the other way (overtensioning) resulted in a couple warped rims and one exploded spoke flange (well... radial spoking a 36-hole hub isn't a good idea either).

If you're willing to build a few "normal" wheels and see how they come out and learn from your mistakes, then I'd say you can move on to exotic lacing. It can be fun and attention-getting, but there's no practical purpose to it.

Ok, that all makes me feel better. I think I'll go to a different shop to get my parts (in Cambridge I have about 6 LBS to choose from... the others were closed today, which is why I went to this one), and I think I will go with a generic 3x 36 wheel for my first build, like people have suggested.

I'm a pretty patient guy and have trued wheels before, so I'm not that scared of it. And I'll bring it to the (other) LBS for inspection after I'm done with it.

If the first wheel works out well, maybe I'll go for a more advanced wheel like 3-leading-3-trailing or Crow's Foot for my rear wheel.

Thanks for the encouragement!

i would do some reading about what makes a good wheel and how to get there. what each adjustment does, why stress relieving is important. not blindly turning the spoke till the tension meter reads 33. wheel building is not hard for me but a wheel is a system. i like minimal distractions between each "round" i like to build in stages. lace and bring all nipples to last thread. take a break and go back. i can do a normal wheel in about an hour if i have all parts lined up

He basically said that wheel building wasn't something that you could learn on your own. Also, he said that it wasn't worth investing that amount of time in my old bike.

So, question to people who have built a wheel before: Is it really impossible to learn how to build a wheel from instructions and YouTube videos? Or was this guy just a jerk?

I can't say whether investing the time and expense into your old bike makes sense, that's strictly your call. To help decide, figure how much the wheel will involve, then what other work would be needed, and compare what a comparable bike would cost. Don't forget to consider that you're comparing used to new and make the allowance for it.

As for how hard is wheel building, it's one of those things that's easy --- if you know how. It isn't hard to learn the basics from a tutorial (I suggest multiple tutorials to get a good sense of it), and lacing won't be difficult. Tightening and aligning is a bit trickier, but if you're building a classic 3 cross 32 or 36 spoke wheel with a fairly stout (approx 500grams) rim it won't be a bear. Like all newbies you'll stumble and fall into a few unexpected traps, but it won't kill you. The key is to be patient and work by degrees.

Much is made of getting even tension, and that is very important, and in case it isn't mentioned in the tutorial here's the secret. You don't want to try to get the tension even at the end, you want to keep it even all the way through. Likewise you want to get the rim spinning true fairly early on, and keep it true as you progressively and fairly evenly add tension.

Here's where some skill and experience come in. If you start aligning it too much early on you'll lose your even tension, but if you wait too long it'll require major tension imbalance to force it into true. It's a judgement call, so try to keep it reasonably aligned, but don't let spokes have more than one turn of the nipple with respect to each other. Also focus on radial mis-alignment first because this is hardest to correct later on, and the wobble can be brought into check as you move along.

best of luck as you go along, let us know how it works out.

'nuther question. Can you save some pretty good money building wheels?

'nuther question. Can you save some pretty good money building wheels?

yes and no, or maybe not usually is more accurate.

These days you can get some pretty decent wheels complete for about what the spokes and rim alone would cost you. The hub and labor are essentially free.

However, as you move up in quality, it changes a bit because the hub has more value so rebuilding on one you already own will pay off. Obviously this doesn't apply if you have to buy the hub.

The real payoff is by building your own you can get the exact wheels you want, with your choice of hub, rim and spokes. Try finding a non-areo tubular wheel with a 3 speed IGH hub 32 double butted spokes, and you'll see what I mean. Also if you're good you'll know that the wheels are as good or more likely better than what you can buy cheap.

So comparing apples to apples with good stuff, you can probably save a bit, or at least break even.

These days you can get some pretty decent wheels complete for about what the spokes and rim alone would cost you. The hub and labor are essentially free.

However, as you move up in quality, it changes a bit because the hub has more value so rebuilding on one you already own will pay off. Obviously this doesn't apply if you have to buy the hub.

The real payoff is by building your own you can get the exact wheels you want, with your choice of hub, rim and spokes. Try finding a non-areo tubular wheel with a 3 speed IGH hub 32 double butted spokes, and you'll see what I mean. Also if you're good you'll know that the wheels are as good or more likely better than what you can buy cheap.
Where I find that I save money by building my own wheels is when it's only the rim that needs replacing. Usually when I need a new wheel it's because the brake track on the rim has worn too thin. Buying another rim with a similar ERD lets me reuse both the hub and the spokes and is generally much less expensive than buying a new wheel.

There are subtle lessons and issues that you'll stumble into. I agree with Sheldon and Barnetts on the drive-side trailing versus leading spoke groups being on the outside versus inside -contrary to Jobst Brandt. Do you plan to use a drop of oil at the spoke hole? Do you plan to use threadlocker compounds? What happens when the nipple grabs the rim and refuses to twist and you round off the edges so the spoke wrench is useless to tighten or loosen and you can't use a screw driver because the spoke has extended too far into the hole? Do you know about the holes always pointing to one side or the other even if they don't appear to? Have you pre-measured all your spokes to make sure you got what you ordered? A few mm wrong length can prevent a correct build. Do you trust the ERD measurement?

Sorry. Just trying to throw out some issues that will hit you eventually.

He basically said that wheel building wasn't something that you could learn on your own. Also, he said that it wasn't worth investing that amount of time in my old bike.


Over the last thirty years plenty of cyclists found _The Bicycle Wheel_ sufficient to build wheels which don't break spokes or go out of true until the rims get bent.



So, question to people who have built a wheel before: Is it really impossible to learn how to build a wheel from instructions and YouTube videos?


No. Jobst Brandt tested _The Bicycle Wheel_ by having his grade school sons each build a wheelset with no other help.

Wheel building is more about patience than skill. You'll take much longer than some one who's built hundreds of sets but your wheels can be as durable and maintenance free.


Or was this guy just a jerk?

Could just be ignorant.

'nuther question. Can you save some pretty good money building wheels?

Yes.

While the parts may not be less expensive the first time, only buying a rim for $40-$70 after you bend one or wear out its brake tracks costs a lot less than buying a comparable quality complete wheel. I'm on the second front rim and second or third rear on the first set I built 14-16 years ago but first hubs (Campagnolo Record rears are about $200 a pop now, fronts over half that, and they're only available in black which is the current fashion), spokes, and nipples (apart from a few alloy nipples damaged in road side repairs).

'nuther question. Can you save some pretty good money building wheels?

Drew nailed it. Buying a pre-built wheel is cheaper at the beginning, but replacing worn rims can save you money in the long run. Also, if you deal with whackdoodle configurations like my collection of recumbents, many times pre-built is not an option.

There's a lot of "it all depends" answers to this question. If you are only going to build this one set, or one wheel to repair your bike- don't bother. Buy a complete wheel on-line. They need a little help, but that should be fairly easy to come by. If you anticipate future wheel-building experiences learn to do it. Saving money? Yes and no. Most of us build our own because it enables us to get a high end wheel which would otherwise cost a bunch. Low end? You can buy cheaper elsewhere.

One thing I wouldn't do is to go back into that LBS. It sounds like either he is afraid of wheelbuilding, or thinks the process is so "specialized," and only he knows how to do it, so you pay through the nose. Most wheelbuilders I know are not that arrogant.

Not hard but does take practice to do well.

Become a member at Bikes not Bombs, sign up for their free Tool Time, every 2nd Tuesday, bring your materials in(they have the tools) and they will help guide you through the build. I started building a wheel in the fall, but got worried abut bringing the tension up while maintaining round/true. Took it in, they pointed out a problem in the lacing I had missed, guided me through truing and tensioning and I have a wheel that hasn't required any retruing yet, and I don't anticipate it needing any in the ear future.
A far cry from the first and only other build I did twenty years ago using only a magazine article that required major retruing after the first test ride, and corrective truing after each ride for about month.

Thanks for all the advice. Randomgear: I'd go to BnB in a minute if I lived close to it. Instead I'm right near Broadway Bike School, and they charge for using their tools. I'll probably bring it to them when it's finished or if I have problems, though.

Now I have to pick out parts... :)

I built my first wheel when I bought a Sturmey-Archer hub. As long as you have the right length spokes (which can be determined using an online calculator in many cases) and can work methodically, it's not really that difficult. As always, Sheldon Brown is a good source of information. He produced a wheelbuilding guide which I followed and ended up with a good strong wheel. I've built a couple more since then and trued several. 3 Leading 3 Trailing is a more difficult pattern to lace, in terms of getting the spokes interlaced properly and having the valve end up in the right place. I'd build a conventional 3-cross pattern first.

Wheel building is one of those things that has been played out as this really difficult, cryptic skill, probably mostly by people who have never built a wheel. In reality if you can follow directions, and have a good reference wheel to follow the lacing pattern, it's really just a plug and chug process to get a ridable wheel.

That being said it is an art form that takes considerable skill to master, and building pro quality wheels isn't easy. You will likely run into problems. But if you are patient, have good troubleshooting skills, and can grasp the basic theory behind it you should be fine.

Lots of bike snobs, especially ones who own or work in a shop, tend to overplay the difficulty of certain mechanical tasks. Maybe because they make generalizations about people's mechanical abilities, or maybe to make themselves feel better, who knows. But bottom line, don't let anyone discourage you from learning through trial and error, IMO the combination of instruction with trial and error is the best way to learn something.

Wheel building is one of those things that has been played out as this really difficult, cryptic skill, probably mostly by people who have never built a wheel. In reality if you can follow directions, and have a good reference wheel to follow the lacing pattern, it's really just a plug and chug process to get a ridable wheel.

That being said it is an art form that takes considerable skill to master, and building pro quality wheels isn't easy. You will likely run into problems. But if you are patient, have good troubleshooting skills, and can grasp the basic theory behind it you should be fine.


+1

Consider painting (art not walls). Just about anyone can paint by numbers (do they still sell these kits). Over time, or with some training many will be able to paint on their own. But that still doesn't make great artists.

Much of the skill in wheelbuilding isn't in the basics of lacing and truing, but in the choosing of the right mix of components to build quality wheels suited to the purpose. Which spokes and rims for a heavy rider, loaded touring, track sprinting, and other conditions.

Also, if you move to lighter rims, you'll find that they can be harder to build. lastly, building fresh is usually easier than aligning where you have to correct for all sorts of things you wouldn't run into with new stuff.

Ask anyone who's been doing it for years and they'll confirm that it used to be more difficult in the past, when brand new rims weren't perfectly round, and had things like twists (one side higher in areas) that needed to be corrected. There was even a tool made to untwist rims, something that's disappeared since there's no need anymore.

IME the major deciding factor is how good you are at truing wheels. Lacing them up isn't difficult.

Building wheels very badly is easy to do, building them into a 'passable' level wheel is doable, building them into a perfect well balanced wheel suitable for racing is really hard.

My plan for this winter (has been delayed for various reasons - mainly didn't realize how much energy my baby would take from me) is to build a wheelset for myself (as the rear wheel size isn't available for purchase anywhere. So I bought the stuff to do that (and still plan to). When time came around to getting things together to build a bike for my wife, I could get a complete wheelset (machinebuilt, but retensioned by hand - though by a vendor with a reputation for having the rim sticker backwards out of the machine) for slightly less than the cost to me of rims and hubs. That's not including the cost of spokes or my time. I took that deal in a heartbeat.

I figure once I get the wheels built up finally for my bike, I'll ride them for a while. If they stay true, good. If they need a retruing, I'll take them in to the shop.

IME the major deciding factor is how good you are at truing wheels. Lacing them up isn't difficult.

+1 Lacing is the easy part.

Ok I have to brag, I built my first wheel when I was 10. It was a steel rim I switched out with a better steel rim on a murray. the rim had an extra ridge in it so the spokes were too long but it still lasted forever.

I took apart and built up an unusable rear wheel (rim dented) just for the learning experience. It was relatively easy, although I had never even touched upon the craft of wheelbuilding. I found Sheldon Brown's Wheelbuilding article (http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html) really helpful. Basically if you can follow directions as to where all the individual spokes are supposed to go, you'll be fine.

Now I haven't ridden on the wheel I rebuilt because it's dented, but I'm pretty sure it's rideable, not of professional quality, but rideable.

IME the major deciding factor is how good you are at truing wheels. Lacing them up isn't difficult.

How do you get good? Maybe experience and practice? The OP and anyone else can get there if they have a little understanding and mechanical ability.


Building wheels very badly is easy to do, building them into a 'passable' level wheel is doable, building them into a perfect well balanced wheel suitable for racing is really hard.

Really hard? For some it might be more challenging but given that one has some mechanical ability, some understanding of the process, and enough experience from doin' it, there ain't nothing "hard" about it.

Just to follow on - what tools does a begineer need to build a wheel?

I imagine an experienced wheel builder could make do with just an upside down bike fork. But if you're a newbie, what should you have on hand that will make it as easy as possible to end up with a good wheel, without over complicating the process?

The most important tool is a spoke wrench. Whenever I've built wheels, I've trued them in the frame of the bike they're going on. Rim brakes can be used to set the lateral trueing- turn the wheel until it rubs, correct it, repeat until the wheel spins freely, move the brake pads closer together and repeat. For roundness you can use a ruler tied to the frame with a rubber band. A steel rule, magnetised, would work great if using a steel frame.

I can build 3x wheels - so it can't be hard. Building them *fast* for commercial purposes is hard - but this is not what you're trying to do.

Improve the worst lateral problem spot a little, then the worst radial, then the worst tension outside tolerance - round and round the three. Stay with very small adjustments - be patient.

Even your first wheel will be better than a cheap one from your LBS. Post a pic when it's done.

[QUOTE=reddog3;13853654]How do you get good? Maybe experience and practice? The OP and anyone else can get there if they have a little understanding and mechanical ability.

Experience and practice definitely hone the skills, and make one faster at performing the task. Confidence and working to a standard are other pieces of the puzzle. I was shown how to true wheels by a master mechanic, Steinar Smith, and learned how to lace from Sheldon's tutorial. As far as the standard, when building my own wheels 1mm is good enough, but when building for customers .5mm or less.

Print Sheldon brown's wheelbuilding article out in COLOR and go slow. do all the tips. use a punch to set the spoke heads. stress relieve the spokes as you go. I use and old wooden hammer handle, Sheldon used to use and old crank arm. lube the nipples. make sure you budget enought time for each step with out having to get up and leave the room.

Its not hard and its fun!

...lube the nipples...



Hope to not derail the thread, but what do you use to lube your nipples? I have a variety of grades of lubricant. Thin (Boesheild), moderate (Chain-L), and thick (Park Polylube).

Hope to not derail the thread, but what do you use to lube your nipples? I have a variety of grades of lubricant. Thin (Boesheild), moderate (Chain-L), and think (Park Polylube).

Grease on nipples serves 3 purposes. 1- to lubricate the thread and thereby reduce spoke twist. This is more important with thinner spokes than with 2.0 straight gauge. I often build with 1.6mm spokes and without a decent lube they twist like crazy.

Prevent water from wicking in, and prevent corrosion which can seize threads making service later more difficult if not impossible

Prevent loosening with vibration. Though this should never be a factor on properly tightened wheels, it can be for left side rear spokes.

Virtually anything will serve the purpose adequately, and everyone has his favorite. Mine is a heavy duty, but sticky grease made by LPS and intended as a corrosion barrier more than as a lube. It does a great job preventing twist and you couldn't shake a nipple off a spoke with a paint mixer.

BTW- for those building non-eyelet rims the most important place to grease isn't the nipple, but the sides of the drilled hole. This is the Achilles heel of rims which are drilled after anodizing. Water carries salt and other corrosives into the gap between the nipple and rim leaving it there where it can attack the bare aluminum. Early on it'll swell making nipples impossible to turn, later it continues and will lead to premature stress cracking of the rims.

If you are already proficient at bike maintenance in general, IMO wheelbuilding is not difficult. I built my first wheel using Sheldon's article and some online spoke length calculator and it came out fine. It is a bit of an art and your first wheel will probably not be perfect but everyone has to start somewhere.

If you've never touched a tool before I would not recommend wheelbuilding as your first project.

I agree -- Sheldon's article is very good. Building a wheel is not difficult, but as a beginner, you need to follow the instructions to the letter -- and have a lot of patience. You might also get a spoke tension meter from Park. It takes some of the guess work out of the final tensioning and truing.

Hope to not derail the thread, but what do you use to lube your nipples? I have a variety of grades of lubricant. Thin (Boesheild), moderate (Chain-L), and thick (Park Polylube).

I use Phil's tenacious oil (a thicker oil like Chain-L) in a small cup and put all my nipples in that as I build. I take each spoke and fill the threads with a high quality grease like Park or Phil's. Some people like linseed oil on the threads and others like spoke prep.

I use Phil's tenacious oil (a thicker oil like Chain-L) in a small cup and put all my nipples in that as I build. I take each spoke and fill the threads with a high quality grease like Park or Phil's. Some people like linseed oil on the threads and others like spoke prep.

I make Chain-L and would love to see it used this way, but it sounds awfully messy. What happens when you drop those slippery babies. The Grease is plenty, soaking the nipples is oil is also OK but messy. Doing both is like bearing a belt and suspenders,

Doing both is like bearing a belt and suspenders,

Nice visual

Another suggestion, and this may be redundant advice if it's already covered in the resources mentioned:

after initial lacing, you begin adding tension to the spokes. Typically, people use some arbitrary starting point (running the nipple down to the last thread, or turning it X number of times) and continue evenly adding tension from there. Long before you're to the point where you can get a meaningful reading on a tensiometer, you'll find some spokes have more tension than others. Why? Because reality. :thumb:

I suggest balancing that out while the wheel's still quite soft, and revisiting it as you go. Initially, you can look at the radial true to reveal spokes that are considerably tighter than their neighbors, lateral true may do so as well. Plucking the spokes and listening to their tone begins to work as the tension comes up further. So given a healthy rim, you work towards true & round while steadily evening out tension, at least to the point where the rim's inherent imperfections begin to force a compromise. But I think it's desirable to get it fairly well sorted out as early as possible.

I am not a pro at wheelbuilding, I've built 4 sets of wheels, if you include the ones I built last weekend with a friend. I built the first wheel, and he watched and assisted. He built the 2nd one, with me watching and assisting. This was his first wheel ever, and until very recently he'd never even lubed a bike chain. So is wheelbuilding super hard? No. It takes patience and care. If you have fancy equipment like a stand and tension meter (I don't, I have an old fork with some zip ties, a spoke wrench, and a ground down screwdriver for a nipple driver--that's it) it will be faster and easier. But it's still very possible without the fancy stuff--I think if you start out without it you might learn a few things you would miss otherwise.

You need patience and time. Twice as much time as you think.

Built over 1000 sets of wheels during my career and went to school at two different places to do it in years past. Once your spokes are in the right place the rest is an art.

Pulling up, tensioning your spokes and making sure the wheel is true, dished correctly and not out of round takes time and practice.

Years ago we charged between 8 and 20 to true a wheel. If someone tried to true it before I did we charged extra!

+1 Lacing is the easy part.
It's just counting by 4s, really. The further into it you go the easier it gets. Oh, and I use boiled linseed oil for a nipple compound. Lubricates when you drive the nipple on, and slowly hardens into a threadlocker. Pretty magic, really, and cheap to boot. I figured it out once, it was about $.04 worth per wheel.

Being able to assemble and tension a wheel and making it look easy is mostly experience. Call is craftsmanship if you want.. but art.. not by many stone throws.. a few 450' homers.. throw in a couple 3 irons struck with the wind on a short cut fare way that roll for seemingly two days.. you get the idea.

Yet the newcomer to building.. after spending many hrs getting a wheel rideable.. might well see those LBS charges as very reasonable. All across the board.

What I term a high end wheel build.. starts of course with new components. Price tags aren't always indicative of quality either. You assemble in precise steps.. same all around. Getting a good rim true early on is simplicity itself.. ROUND and balanced with near equal tension per each side. Dish it.. bring up the tension again in precise uniform turns.. it falls into place so easily if you let it.

Now.. getting the 'not so good' rims decent is another chapter. Often created early on tensioning.. too tight in a couple spokes means what one guy so aptly described around here... as going "all wonky". The extreme of this is the waves... upping tension only means more waves and a mess. What most newcomers.. me included back then.. do is struggle with that jungle of counter acting stresses. Simply detension to the decree this disappears.. can be as little as 1/4 turn on each.. could be half a turn. From their your adding/subtracting tension with a move... IF the sides are of relatively even tension.. for their side. BEST thing often is to walk away for awhile.. come back fresh. Much easier then...

Truing the banged up.. 'been there and done that' rim is the challenge. This is how I learned.... I enjoy that challenge. Sorta like the dating game.. back when anyway. Yet it made working with new components very simple. It gets at times complex.. making said sows ear into the silk purse. Those finished products see all the salt and sand and cold of the winter. And have never let me down.