Touring - Ultimate open-budget backcountry bikepacking setup?

After years of sweating in the cubicle dungeon, I think I'm going to treat myself to a midlife backcountry bikepacking adventure.

I'd be starting from scratch, but since this would be a once-in-a-lifetime thing, I'm considering throwing out all the stops when it comes to gear.

So if money was no object, what would your ultimate gear setup be? Bike, racks, clothes, tech, you name it - what's the absolute best out there?

Thanks!

Well, to start off with, you would need to determine whether you will be bikepacking on serious backcountry paths and trails (Great Divide race style) or more riding fire roads and forest service roads thrown in. That makes a big difference in the whole rig. For road/fireroad riding, any touring bike with racks and bags with fattish tires will work...would want mountain bike gearing. This is the type of touring I mostly do on an LHT with 2.0inch mtb tires and standard racks/panniers.
Fire roads and jeep trails push that rig to the edge of fun though. If I was to go anything more technical, I would get a hardtail mountain bike with frame bags. Most riders for this style use frame bags, a small backpack, and some sort of either seatpost rack or if they ride a hardtail maybe a standard rear rack.

Well, to start off with, you would need to determine whether you will be bikepacking on serious backcountry paths and trails (Great Divide race style) or more riding fire roads and forest service roads thrown in. That makes a big difference in the whole rig. For road/fireroad riding, any touring bike with racks and bags with fattish tires will work...would want mountain bike gearing. This is the type of touring I mostly do on an LHT with 2.0inch mtb tires and standard racks/panniers.
Fire roads and jeep trails push that rig to the edge of fun though. If I was to go anything more technical, I would get a hardtail mountain bike with frame bags. Most riders for this style use frame bags, a small backpack, and some sort of either seatpost rack or if they ride a hardtail maybe a standard rear rack.

The Great Divide is a series of US Forest Service roads linked together. It's really not all that technical. It's also, along with almost all of the Forest Service roads that I've been on in Colorado, completely inappropriate for a road style touring bike. You might be able to do most of it on a road bike but it wouldn't be comfortable nor easy.

gottabefunky: If you are looking for a mountain bike backcountry adventure, I'd suggest bags from Revelate Design (http://www.revelatedesigns.com/). The Revelate Design stuff carries your gear in a narrower foot print than panniers and it's not as much hassle as a trailer. You could add a rear rack and a trunk bag for a little more space.

For a tent, I'd suggest a Big Agnes Flycreek UL1 (if you are taking company, get the UL2). The Flycreek is right at 2 lbs. It's roomy enough for a single tent and packs down really small. Get a Big Agnes down bag while you are at it with the Big Agnes pad. Both are light and small.

For food prep, I'd get a Snow Peak Giga (http://www.rei.com/product/643058/snow-peak-giga-power-stove-with-piezo) or Primus Express Ti (http://store.primuscamping.com/backpacking-stoves/single-fuel/butane/express-stove-ti-w/piezo-ignition/) and use butane. Get a teapot and eat freeze dry...ugg!...because it's lighter.

For the bike, I'd go with either a full dually...the Specialized Epic is my favorite...or a soft tail like the Moots YBB (I have both). The Epic has a great system that minimizes pedal bob but activates on impacts while the YBB takes the edge off of bumps and has a very simple rear suspension system that is rugged and uncomplicated. I'd throw a Fox fork on the front of either.

You're on your own for clothing because that's so personal. Lycra/nylon clothing does dry faster but it's not as warm. Carry rain stuff and make it do double duty around camp.

The Great Divide is a series of US Forest Service roads linked together. It's really not all that technical. It's also, along with almost all of the Forest Service roads that I've been on in Colorado, completely inappropriate for a road style touring bike. You might be able to do most of it on a road bike but it wouldn't be comfortable nor easy..
Very true, but I think it is a matter of degree and what images certain terminology brings about. Forest service roads in different parts of the country tend to be of markedly different levels of maintenance. In logging and fire country in Northern California, much of the time they are in pretty good shape, at least good enough to drive a non 4x4 pickup on. I agree in that I wouldn't want to take a road touring bike on stuff much rougher than that. Just takes the fun out of it.

Good for you! Go for it! I would start with the Co-Motion Pangea Rohloff.
http://www.co-motion.com/index.php/singles/pangea_rohloff

money no object I'd pay a trainer to help me to lose 50lbs of fat and then I'd put together a hard-tail front shock bike with basic light weight gear. The body matters more.

If money were no object, I would still go for middle-of-the-road-well-thought-out-equipment. It's nice having the funds to buy whatever you want but you don't need to go into a tour thinking you have to have the best of everything to enjoy yourself. I don't want to sound like I am preaching but just speaking from experience since my mid-life crisis involved taking a year off work and touring on an old MB1 even though I could have afforded much than than that.

You will get some good recommendations here but all I can say is don't get to boutiquesh. It takes the fun out of it.

the Co-Motion Pangea Rohloff.

I have a Thorn Nomad which is a very similar bike. There are lots of choices involved! How long do you expect to be traveling and how far from bike shops etc. Durability, weight, load capacity, comfort, efficiency/speed: these are factors that have to be balanced in a way that fits your plans & intent.

I would definitely recommend reading about other folks who have done the style of travel you are considering, or look at some of the options to clarify what it is you want to do. Stephen Lord's book Adventure Cycle-Touring Handbook is a good resource. Look too at journals and reviews on

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

I plan to ride the Great Divide this June. Using a hardtail MTB 26er and 3/4 ultralight gear . Plan on cooking and camping so not total ultralight .

"throwing out all the stops"...

oh hell, titanium frame, titanium stove, embroidered wool jacket and cap.

Well, if money was no object... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litter_(vehicle))

If money is no object, Cuben Fiber for gear (Two pounds for a tent? Try a few ounces over one (http://www.lightheartgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=14)! More space too), lots of fun down gear, shave a few ounces off the Snowpeak Giga and go with the Montauk Gnat (http://monatauk.com/inc/sdetail/509). Either that, or an alcohol stove setup, depending on just how light you want.

Really I think the issue is going to be resupply points; how long can you really manage self sufficient back country touring before you need to stop by civilization to buy lightweight food, or fuel, or just want to hear the sound of another human voice?

If money is no problem for tent I would shoose Hilleberg Staika and a Marmot high end sleeeping bag. For bike I would go for a Koga world traveller. Add to this a good multilevel burner and titanium pots.

Humm, interesting!!! Are you going to stay with the bicycle or are you going to ride into an area only to a certain point and then hike the rest of the way (like up a mountain)? If you decide to hike after you bike then you want to go really light. I like Ultralight weight materials.........you did say money wasn't an issue so here it goes......

Pack: http://www.summithut.com/products/ultra-205/
Tent: http://www.summithut.com/products/laser-ultra-1/?avad=3057_a1b67ae1
Sleeping bag: http://www.summithut.com/products/lithium-membrain/
Sleeping pad: http://www.summithut.com/products/synmat24/
Stove: Snowpeak Ti auto http://www.backcountry.com/snow-peak-gigapower-stove-titanium-auto-ignition
Alternative stove using wood: http://www.backpacker.com/gear-review-vargo-titanium-hexagon-wood-stove/gear/14993

this is a start...........Fix it all on a Surly LHT and you got an adventure. I am one for a few comforts.....minimize but don't compromise is the minimalist moto. I like a nice comfortable sleeping pad for a good nights sleep. You can deal with a lot of crap when your well rested. Sleep on a hard cold ground day after day and it takes a toll. Same with carrying too much stuff or too heavy of stuff. Anyway, this is a start. I have spent years researching this stuff and I still haven't found the perfect setup........yet :).

Sleeping pad = car sun shade

You joined this forum this month. Have you checked out past threads on gear? If not, you should.

Look at the photos on this link, many touring bikes shown, you can get an idea on bikes and how others carry their gear:
http://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded

If money is no object, Cuben Fiber for gear.

$475 for a tarp tent:eek: And you provide the poles..."LightHeart Tents are hiking pole supported shelters ":rolleyes:

With the optional aluminum tent poles and the aluminum awning pole, the tent weighs 32 oz, which is a bit over the trail weight of the Fly Creek. I don't see a packed dimension, either. The Fly Creek is 5" x 19". The Fly Creek has the added advantage of being a free standing tent so setup is easier and it doesn't have to guy lines and/or can be easily moved if you find that you've set it up over a big rock.

And, finally, the Fly Creek is a double walled tent. I've tried single walls. Ick! Dude. Seriously? That's gross.

It's all about ventalation . Single walls are fine

Tout Terrain , a German Builder has a full suspension bike
made for carrying 4 panniers.
rear suspension shock mount is part of a rear rack pannier support,

They got an arrangement with Arkel, the front ones fit in a special fitting
on their special suspension fork
bags stay up with the bike, upper part of the fork is reversed
in comparison with usual suspension forks.
the wheel moves separately without that added mass, over the terrain.
Peter White Cycles in NH is the sole source of those in NA.

It's all about ventalation . Single walls are fine

Yup, it's about ventilation. Single wall tents don't got none. Been there, done that, got the wet tee-shirt.

I'd stick some front suspension on my Surly Troll (well, I guess if money was no object I'd buy some super-light fancy bike) and go with a frame pack, saddlebag from Revelate Designs or whatever, and a handlebar pack...for longer trips where resupply points are questionable, I'd base it on a front and rear rack (light, not expedition quality) with stuff sacks full of things lashed on top, plus all of the above.

Realistically, I'd just start with the front and rear rack stuff sacks. For a summer setup, that plus a large one strapped to the handlebars should hold everything I need for a few days out. Winter/cold weather would be tougher to manage without also adding a frame pack, etc.

Gear - I'll sleep in my hammock with included bug net, covered by a 9 oz tarp, cook on a MSR Pocket Rocket stove, be kept warm on top by an 8 oz Insultex quilt and on the bottom by a 10 oz down underquilt, take only one change of clothes plus rain gear (and that only if rain is expected) and store extra water in a Nalgene bladder.

I know a lot of people see "bikepacking" as defined by being ultralight and not having racks, but what I like about the setup with racks is versatility; if you're on a long trip you can just ditch the panniers, pull out a few stuff sacks, and be pretty darn light for a few days' mountain biking without having to swap out everything and remove racks.

Yup, it's about ventilation. Single wall tents don't got none. Been there, done that, got the wet tee-shirt.

Glad you got a tee shirt . I will stick with a tarp

For bike I would go for a Koga world traveller.

+1 on the World Traveller, I would add Signature series. It now comes in a 26 (original) and a 29 inch version. I have a 26 and love it.

Since no one has mentioned it yet... I highly recommend you do a shorter tour before irrevocably committing yourself to an extensive tour. Among other benefits:

1) You can test out your gear, and see what you missed and what you can leave home
2) You can find out if this kind of trip truly suits you.
3) It'll test and/or improve your fitness.

Perhaps a week on the Katy Trail is a good warm-up, if you don't live too far from it.

I'd stick some front suspension on my Surly Troll .

ok, Troll and embroidered hat and jacket. Maybe put some black stripes on the orange for fun.

I know a lot of people see "bikepacking" as defined by being ultralight and not having racks, but what I like about the setup with racks is versatility; if you're on a long trip you can just ditch the panniers, pull out a few stuff sacks, and be pretty darn light for a few days' mountain biking without having to swap out everything and remove racks.

I've done off-road tours with panniers and with a trailer. I have Revelate design bags but I haven't had a chance to test them yet. I truly hate a trailer. It's an unspeakable evil. It pushes the bike, makes handling squirrelly, is difficult to transport, attaching it to a bike is a 4 person job, etc.

However, a trailer for off-road use is far, far better than panniers (on-road is a different issue). Off-road, panniers make the bike wide...wider than a trailer. Don't even think about using lowriders unless you really want to ventilate your panniers. If you want to run a shock on the front of the bike, adding a front rack is expensive (a Tubus Swing is $150) or difficult since you'd have to clamp the rack to the lower legs. If you go with only a rear load, the bike handling isn't the best and the rear wheel takes a beating. If you happen to have a front load, lifting the front wheel over obstacles is more difficult.

With a trailer, the suspension isn't impacted and the trailer wheel takes the beating. It's easier to lift the bike over obstacles, too. Plus, if you want more punishment, the trailer comes off and the bike is ready for mountain biking with a minimum of fuss.

The Revelate Design stuff looks like the best of all worlds. Easy to put on and take off, lighter than a trailer as well as lighter than panniers and racks. The load is on the bike like panniers but it's more evenly distributed which should make handling better with a load. It essentially the stuff sacks without the racks.

Since no one has mentioned it yet... I highly recommend you do a shorter tour before irrevocably committing yourself to an extensive tour. Among other benefits:

1) You can test out your gear, and see what you missed and what you can leave home
2) You can find out if this kind of trip truly suits you.
3) It'll test and/or improve your fitness.

The "starting from scratch" language made me think pretty much the same thing. I couldn't tell whether the OP has any cycling, touring and/or backcountry experience.

$475 for a tarp tent:eek: And you provide the poles..."LightHeart Tents are hiking pole supported shelters ":rolleyes:

With the optional aluminum tent poles and the aluminum awning pole, the tent weighs 32 oz, which is a bit over the trail weight of the Fly Creek. I don't see a packed dimension, either. The Fly Creek is 5" x 19". The Fly Creek has the added advantage of being a free standing tent so setup is easier and it doesn't have to guy lines and/or can be easily moved if you find that you've set it up over a big rock.

Aluminium poles? Really? Carbon fiber, of course. That should save you a substantial amount of weight.

The reason the Fly Creek is light is because it's tiny. The Lightheart is 6 inches taller at it's peak, it's about 20 inches wider, even more at the feet where the Fly Creek tapers down into nothing. The Lightheart is pretty palatial, whereas the Fly Creek is an oversized bivy.

As far as free standing, that's a whole 'nother debate. I'll just say, I haven't met a tent worth it's salt with a freestanding fly.

Aluminium poles? Really? Carbon fiber, of course. That should save you a substantial amount of weight.


Look at their website. They don't seem to offer a carbon fiber pole except for the awning pole. The awning pole couldn't be used for the interior either since the awning pole is 10" shorter than the interior poles.


As far as free standing, that's a whole 'nother debate. I'll just say, I haven't met a tent worth it's salt with a freestanding fly.

Not sure what you mean by a "freestanding fly".

I've done off-road tours with panniers and with a trailer. I have Revelate design bags but I haven't had a chance to test them yet. I truly hate a trailer. It's an unspeakable evil. It pushes the bike, makes handling squirrelly, is difficult to transport, attaching it to a bike is a 4 person job, etc.

However, a trailer for off-road use is far, far better than panniers (on-road is a different issue). Off-road, panniers make the bike wide...wider than a trailer. Don't even think about using lowriders unless you really want to ventilate your panniers. If you want to run a shock on the front of the bike, adding a front rack is expensive (a Tubus Swing is $150) or difficult since you'd have to clamp the rack to the lower legs. If you go with only a rear load, the bike handling isn't the best and the rear wheel takes a beating. If you happen to have a front load, lifting the front wheel over obstacles is more difficult.

With a trailer, the suspension isn't impacted and the trailer wheel takes the beating. It's easier to lift the bike over obstacles, too. Plus, if you want more punishment, the trailer comes off and the bike is ready for mountain biking with a minimum of fuss.

The Revelate Design stuff looks like the best of all worlds. Easy to put on and take off, lighter than a trailer as well as lighter than panniers and racks. The load is on the bike like panniers but it's more evenly distributed which should make handling better with a load. It essentially the stuff sacks without the racks.



Never ridden with a trailer. Well...once a long time ago, pulling a trailer full of pig feed about a mile with a few hills, but that's it. A friend does have a BOB Yak I want to try out.

The Revelate Design stuff does look pretty awesome. If money's no object I'd of course go in that direction. As a cheaper measure though I just like the idea of taking a bike that already has racks and adding just a few stuff sacks (one on each rack, one to handlebars with an attachment like Revelate's $30 sling) and being ready to go. And then of course what I said before - your setup is heavy-load ready without the need to install racks.

I can't wait for summer so I can start testing out ultralight bikepacking setups. My big synthetic 20 degree sleeping bag is pretty awkward in terms of bulk, and so are the CCF pads, but a down underquilt is high on my list of things to pick up and with that and my insultex top quilt, I'll be pretty ready to go for a few spring or summer nights.

I don't think the rack route is that much heavier than the bikepacking-gear route, either, depending on your racks. Many weight right around a pound, and the stuff sacks just a few ounces more. Heavier than a nice durable set of bikepacking bags, but not by a lot.

If you want to go for some super ultralight shelter you can ditch the tent and go with a bivy bag plus maybe a small tarp. Bivys are awesome but you have to be the kind of person that can sleep in one, because they are claustrophobic.
If you want real bells and whistles in cold weather, and don't mind 5 to 6 pounds for a shelter, and have a pocketful of cash the Kifaru paratipi is a floor less semi tipi, semi tarp that has a stove jack. For 6 pounds you can have a big shelter with a woodstove inside. In winter that is my preferred shelter. In summer I don't like floor less tents cause of snakes and bugs but in winter it's awesome. In summer i roll either with a bivy or a Mountain Hardware Stiletto which is the lightest double walled tent I've found. They don't make it anymore though but there are similar offerings.

Never ridden with a trailer.


It's not optimal but it is better than panniers...off-road.

This is all the bike you'll need, save some money for all the other stuff and a few nights in a lodge or hotel along the way. Salsa Fargo Ti http://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo_ti/

If you want to go for some super ultralight shelter you can ditch the tent and go with a bivy bag plus maybe a small tarp. Bivys are awesome but you have to be the kind of person that can sleep in one, because they are claustrophobic.
If you want real bells and whistles in cold weather, and don't mind 5 to 6 pounds for a shelter, and have a pocketful of cash the Kifaru paratipi is a floor less semi tipi, semi tarp that has a stove jack. For 6 pounds you can have a big shelter with a woodstove inside. In winter that is my preferred shelter. In summer I don't like floor less tents cause of snakes and bugs but in winter it's awesome. In summer i roll either with a bivy or a Mountain Hardware Stiletto which is the lightest double walled tent I've found. They don't make it anymore though but there are similar offerings.

I like hammocks. Sure it may be heavier than the most minimalist tarp option, but a hammock with a bug net and light tarp over it is still pretty light and the amount of comfort you gain by not sleeping on the ground is worth it.

In a desert, I've slept under tarps, although I still would prefer one of the lightest Tarp Tents to keep out any roving snakes and scorpions.

I like hammocks. Sure it may be heavier than the most minimalist tarp option, but a hammock with a bug net and light tarp over it is still pretty light and the amount of comfort you gain by not sleeping on the ground is worth it.

In a desert, I've slept under tarps, although I still would prefer one of the lightest Tarp Tents to keep out any roving snakes and scorpions.
I lived back east and liked hammocks a lot there. Still have a really nice Clark Jungle Hammock. Where I live now I just can't always count on finding trees suitable. Just not a heavily forested part of the country, but I agree...in warmish weather, with trees, hammocks are a great option.
Thing with shelters, there is no perfect one that fits a person in every season and every terrain. If you spend a lot of time in the backcountry, you almost need two or three options if you are set on having the best shelter option for every trip.

Look at their website. They don't seem to offer a carbon fiber pole except for the awning pole. The awning pole couldn't be used for the interior either since the awning pole is 10" shorter than the interior poles.



Not sure what you mean by a "freestanding fly".

Since the poles are just straight lengths, you can use aftermarket poles (http://www.fibraplex.com/tentpoles.htm)

How many tents can you think of that don't require stakes (freestanding, at least in my book) to set up the fly? A tent without a fly isn't worth much in my book.

If the OP wants the comfort of a hammock, but is going to be someplace where suitable trees aren't a guarantee, a combination of a light weight hammock like the Grand Trunk Nano 7, (http://store.grandtrunkgoods.com/hammocks/nano-7)a large silnylon (or cuben, since price is no object) tarp, a light Whoopie sling suspension (http://www.whoopieslings.com/), a few of the aforementioned carbon poles and a wider sleeping pad would be something that would be serviceable hanging or going to ground. Sleeping on a pad in a hammock isn't ideal, but it's still pretty nice, and it saves carrying an insulation layer that's only useful when you're hanging.

This is all the bike you'll need, save some money for all the other stuff and a few nights in a lodge or hotel along the way. Salsa Fargo Ti http://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo_ti/


I was really into the idea of getting a Titanium bicycle for a while. I own many titanium items.....hiking items mostly. I ended up calling a guy that was into making titanium bicycle and he said that titanium isn't the best material to make bicycles. I really can't remember specifics but it is problematic and doesn't match more common material in performance. I don't know if any of you on this forum would have heard of him......a guy named John Cherry (The Cherry Bomb). http://www.sandsmachine.com/bp_chery.htm

Ti is a great material if you can afford two things..the buy price and the cost to repair it.
If you can afford it...let's be honest...how often has anyone on this forum had a frame repaired? I've destroyed many bikes, most with the frames in perfect condition after. Frames simply don't break all that much, and doing the risk analysis which compares risk to probability, to mitigation measures, my call would be to ride a Ti bike. If you break it, get a local bike and finish your tour.
I'm not rich though, so I ride a steel frame. I drool over titanium frames but can't buy one.

I lived back east and liked hammocks a lot there. Still have a really nice Clark Jungle Hammock. Where I live now I just can't always count on finding trees suitable. Just not a heavily forested part of the country, but I agree...in warmish weather, with trees, hammocks are a great option.


Hey, I've slept in a hammock in 30F degree-ish weather and been warm enough. Not with specialty hammock gear, either, just my regular 20 degree sleeping bag and two CCF pads, exactly what I'd have used on the ground. Others have gotten down below 0 with hammock-specific gear. It's totally a cold weather option.

Also, back to the trailer: I think while a trailer might be a good option for off-road touring, I see one of the points of bikepacking as being able to do some more gnarly trails along the way. I sure wouldn't want to take a trailer on anything hairier than non-technical singletrack.

Hey, I've slept in a hammock in 30F degree-ish weather and been warm enough. Not with specialty hammock gear, either, just my regular 20 degree sleeping bag and two CCF pads, exactly what I'd have used on the ground. Others have gotten down below 0 with hammock-specific gear. It's totally a cold weather option. ck.
Very true, you can be quite comfortable in cold weather. It's all about personal preference. I know of some who are way into hammocks and have all sorts of tricks for really cold weather.
That's the thing about shelter and gear in general, there just isn't really a right answer, it's about what works for the individual.

How many tents can you think of that don't require stakes (freestanding, at least in my book) to set up the fly? A tent without a fly isn't worth much in my book.


Oh, I don't know...several dozen:rolleyes: I haven't need stakes stakes to set up a rain fly on any tent I've owned since I started using freestanding tents. My two Eureka Timberlines didn't need stakes to attach the fly since the fly attached to the frame. My Eureka Alpine Meadows 4 person tent didn't need stakes because it too was attached to the frame. My Big Agnes Seedhouse 2 doesn't need stakes to attach the fly because the fly buckles into the tent floor or buckles into the foot print. Of course my Seedhouse 1 and Fly Creek 1 have the same attachment. My daughters REI Quarterdome's fly attaches to the frame as well.

To go further, many modern tents are made so that the fly can be used with a footprint and the frame to cut down on weight if you don't mind being mosquito food:eek: All of the Big Agnes tents are made this way. The fly goes over the frame, attaches to the footprint and you have a reasonably dry but open tent. You'd probably have a difficult time finding a (quality) tent that didn't do this.

I do stake out my fly (as well as the tent) but I don't have to stake it. It works reasonably well even without the stakes.

Originally, for a back country, adventure touring bike, I was thinking Surly Troll. Now, I'm obsessed with fat-bikes. With tires available in the 3.7 to 4.8 inch width range a fat-bike would be perfect for loose gravel and washboard roads. Great too for sandy conditions, loose gravel and tree roots. Keeping the footprint narrow with frame bags and/or top loaded racks would keep options open for single track riding through trees.
http://www.pugsley-on-patrol.org.uk/index.htm
http://fat-bike.com/

Oh, I don't know...several dozen:rolleyes: I haven't need stakes stakes to set up a rain fly on any tent I've owned since I started using freestanding tents. My two Eureka Timberlines didn't need stakes to attach the fly since the fly attached to the frame. My Eureka Alpine Meadows 4 person tent didn't need stakes because it too was attached to the frame. My Big Agnes Seedhouse 2 doesn't need stakes to attach the fly because the fly buckles into the tent floor or buckles into the foot print. Of course my Seedhouse 1 and Fly Creek 1 have the same attachment. My daughters REI Quarterdome's fly attaches to the frame as well.

To go further, many modern tents are made so that the fly can be used with a footprint and the frame to cut down on weight if you don't mind being mosquito food:eek: All of the Big Agnes tents are made this way. The fly goes over the frame, attaches to the footprint and you have a reasonably dry but open tent. You'd probably have a difficult time finding a (quality) tent that didn't do this.

I do stake out my fly (as well as the tent) but I don't have to stake it. It works reasonably well even without the stakes.

I own a Quarter Dome myself, and I'll say while it can be set up without stakes, I wouldn't actually trust it in the rain. The stakes on the vestibules are pretty essential to maintaining a good pitch. From what I've seen, the Big Agnes tents are the same way. Just about any tent with a vestibule will require stakes to get something even close to a storm worthy pitch.

The only tents I've ever seen that honestly don't need stakes are big car camping dome tents.

I own a Quarter Dome myself, and I'll say while it can be set up without stakes, I wouldn't actually trust it in the rain. The stakes on the vestibules are pretty essential to maintaining a good pitch. From what I've seen, the Big Agnes tents are the same way. Just about any tent with a vestibule will require stakes to get something even close to a storm worthy pitch.

The only tents I've ever seen that honestly don't need stakes are big car camping dome tents.
Also to get good ventilation, generally it's good practice to stake out the edges to keep it off the mesh. Don't have to, but it helps.
One thing I do like about free standing tents is the ability to just hold it up and shake the dirt out, very convienent although I haven't used a conventional backpacking tent in a really long time.

Originally, for a back country, adventure touring bike, I was thinking Surly Troll. Now, I'm obsessed with fat-bikes. With tires available in the 3.7 to 4.8 inch width range a fat-bike would be perfect for loose gravel and washboard roads. Great too for sandy conditions, loose gravel and tree roots. Keeping the footprint narrow with frame bags and/or top loaded racks would keep options open for single track riding through trees.
http://www.pugsley-on-patrol.org.uk/index.htm
http://fat-bike.com/

I would love a fatbike, although where I live there's really no way to justify having one. Someday...someday I'll have enough money that it won't matter if I can justify it!

I do, however, have a Troll, and it rules. You can put some pretty dang fat tires on it too. I had trouble riding it (with a rear-only load) in the sandy pine barrens of south Jersey, but I could probably have had more success by putting even fatter tires on than the 2.35 inch ones that are on now, and deflating them more (and of course riding without so much weight...I just sunk into the sandy parts). That bike can handle a whole lot and for anything I plan to use it for, a fatbike would be overkill.

But that doesn't mean I don't want one.

I own a Quarter Dome myself, and I'll say while it can be set up without stakes, I wouldn't actually trust it in the rain. The stakes on the vestibules are pretty essential to maintaining a good pitch. From what I've seen, the Big Agnes tents are the same way. Just about any tent with a vestibule will require stakes to get something even close to a storm worthy pitch.

The only tents I've ever seen that honestly don't need stakes are big car camping dome tents.

Using the stakes is good practice but even a fly with a vestibule don't necessarily need stakes. The shape of the vestibule on a Big Agnes wouldn't allow it to lift much in the wind since wind would just push the vestibule into the front of the tent. That would, effectively, seal the tent. It might be a little steamy inside but it would be dry.

Over my touring life I have migrated from a Mondia Super Swiss touring bike to a Ritchey MTB to a Ti Bruce Gordon RNR rigid bike with 700x47 tire capability in 1989. Twenty three years later I continue to tour off pavement with minimal equipment in two Robert Beckman front panniers, a Revelate Designs partial frame bag(a recent addition) and a rear dry bag stuffer all mounted on front and rear BG CRoMo racks. This setup has allowed me to tour and ride single track trails, fire roads as well as road routes around the world. I still prefer a mechanically simple bike to minimize on trail problems, hence no suspension.

When I read in this thread and others categorical rejections of panniers or trailers or titanium and the elevation of the latest "answer" such as rackless touring I can only smile at this continual re-discovery of things done long ago in touring history sometimes 100 plus years ago.

On the Divide Ride I encountered many unhappy tourists using either panniers or trailers. Their problem was not in the choice of method but in using massive panniers overfilled or trailers loaded far beyond their functional usage level. These tourists invariably wondered how i could manage with so little weight and volume of equipment. I did my best to explain how I was able to remain warm, dry, fed and watered with a careful selection of equipment. They seemed to have packed for their own psychological safety against imagined fears of the unknown on the trail. They wanted to recreate their home on the trail.

I have looked at a number of 29ers as potential replacements for my BG RNR such as the Ti Moots Mooto-X YBB; The Ti Salsa Fargo and a number of custom frames. None has been enticing enough for me to make the switch. I really only wish for a slightly larger tire size for the softest or roughest terrain to fit my BG. So far I have only upgraded and lightened the equipment I carry reducing the overall weight as new options appear.

My Ti BG RNR was my answer to the search for the ultimate touring bike some 23 years ago. It was the correct choice for me. Good luck on your hunt for your answer.

Over my touring life I have migrated from a Mondia Super Swiss touring bike to a Ritchey MTB to a Ti Bruce Gordon RNR rigid bike with 700x47 tire capability in 1989. Twenty three years later I continue to tour off pavement with minimal equipment in two Robert Beckman front panniers, a Revelate Designs partial frame bag(a recent addition) and a rear dry bag stuffer all mounted on front and rear BG CRoMo racks. This setup has allowed me to tour and ride single track trails, fire roads as well as road routes around the world. I still prefer a mechanically simple bike to minimize on trail problems, hence no suspension.

When I read in this thread and others categorical rejections of panniers or trailers or titanium and the elevation of the latest "answer" such as rackless touring I can only smile at this continual re-discovery of things done long ago in touring history sometimes 100 plus years ago.

On the Divide Ride I encountered many unhappy tourists using either panniers or trailers. Their problem was not in the choice of method but in using massive panniers overfilled or trailers loaded far beyond their functional usage level. These tourists invariably wondered how i could manage with so little weight and volume of equipment. I did my best to explain how I was able to remain warm, dry, fed and watered with a careful selection of equipment. They seemed to have packed for their own psychological safety against imagined fears of the unknown on the trail. They wanted to recreate their home on the trail.

I have looked at a number of 29ers as potential replacements for my BG RNR such as the Ti Moots Mooto-X YBB; The Ti Salsa Fargo and a number of custom frames. None has been enticing enough for me to make the switch. I really only wish for a slightly larger tire size for the softest or roughest terrain to fit my BG. So far I have only upgraded and lightened the equipment I carry reducing the overall weight as new options appear.

My Ti BG RNR was my answer to the search for the ultimate touring bike some 23 years ago. It was the correct choice for me. Good luck on your hunt for your answer.

Do you have a packing list that you used on the great divide trail ????

Thanks Thom

Do you have a packing list that you used on the great divide trail ????

Thanks Thom

I do not have a specific Divide Ride packing list written down just a constantly evolving one in my head aimed at keeping me warm, dry, fed and watered as i stated previously. The equipment carried does not change much no matter the trip except for adding or subtracting clothes for expected conditions.

Long ago I focused on reducing the weight the heaviest items- shelter, sleeping bag, pad and cook kit. I no longer use a traditional tent and prefer a more open shelter except in true winter conditions.

I used a Tarptent Virga on the Divide Ride. It weighed one pound. The TT Contrail in the updated and heavier current version replacing the Virga. I now use a Cuben fiber 2 person tarp and a net bivy for two with a cuben floor. Weight under one pound.

For sleeping I have moved from mummy sleeping bags to a down quilt from Nunatak weighing 1#4oz ten years ago and would never go back to a mummy bag except in true winter conditions. A Neo-air pad has replaced my old heavy Thermarest pad. The shelter total now is under three pounds instead of the old total of close to 10 pounds using standard traditional items. This 7# reduction was worth the cost to me. It is a long term investment as equipment lasts me a long time with careful non-abusive use.

My Divide kitchen consisted of a Brasslite alcohol stove 2oz, a Ti cook pot, Ti cup, utensils,lighter and a windscreen for the stove. Total weight about 1#. [I just picked up a Ti Emberlit wood stove (5oz) as a secondary cooking method where permitted. It also can act as a windscreen for the alky stove eliminating a seperate one.]

Clothing consisted of merino wool tops(2); arm & leg or knee warmers; Montane windbreaker & pants; down vest; wool socks(2pr); bike shorts; Warmlite VBL shirt & pants; warm hat and gloves; long rain parka. total weight:4# Sometimes I needed to wear everything to stay warm and other times I did not want to wear anything in the heat.

Tools, lube and spares: 3#

camera, compass, maps, guide book total: 2#

Grand total: 14 # without counting weight of panniers and stuffer; 19# for everything. When asked along the route I estimated a dry weight of 18# so I was close in my guesstimate.

Overall less weight made for an easier more enjoyable ride, less stress on the bike and no mechanicals other than two flats. Once you figure out how your body works on tour you can pick the right equipment for yourself. My list works for me but it took a while to refine and personalize it. Good luck on your ride.

Thanks . My plan is about the same . Rigid mtb bike, tubeless tires . Silnylon tarp ,alcohol stove .
May use indoor soccer shoes and platform petals . Small Nashbar mtb panniers . Going light .

Thom