Framebuilders - First Build Blog

Ok, sounds like it won't bug anyone if I post links to my blog in this thread as I build my first bike.

Background on me: I'm totally new to this. For the last few months I've been practicing mitering and brazing. I started on the frame proper once, and pretty quickly figured out that I wasn't there yet and that it was time to practice more and buy new tubes/lugs. It should be said: DON'T BLINDLY COPY ANYTHING YOU SEE ON MY BLOG, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. Hopefully seeing my screw ups and successes will be helpful, but if you're brand new, my methodology should in no way be a primary source.

I'm using LFB for the lugs on the frame and silver for braze-ons and attaching the seat stays.

To start out, my blog is at CurmudgeonBicycles.com (http://www.curmudgeonbicycles.com). I'd love it if people read and commented, some of it should be interesting. I'm especially having fun teaching myself to etch copper to make a head tube badge, and have outlined how I did it in basic terms there.

The blog goes a ways back, but I think the truly interesting stuff has yet to come. I'll post an update here with a little blurb each time I post to the blog.

Thanks all! It's nice to see an active forum after the one I was using went down.

I just added a post in which I finish my head tube badge. Turned out very well. It's etched with ferrous chloride into copper.

Here's the post! (http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/02/we-need-those-stinkin-badges-part-2.html)

Thanks. I'm checking out your blog posts.

Thanks! I'll be going to the North American Handbuilt Bicycle Show at the beginning of the month, and will post the stuff I think is really interesting.

I'm also going to try to get some professional help in the form of a few brazing lessons, and I suspect that will make for a few good posts.

New post up. I'm starting to plan an 80/20 jig. I doubt this'll be the last frame I make... and I figure that I might as well get something basic slapped together. I know it won't replace skill, but it should help me not to mess up my measurements.

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/02/jigs-and-rattlecad.html

Some of the highlights of NAHBS 2012 from my perspective. Not at all complete, just stuff that caught my eye.

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/03/north-american-handbuilt-bicycle-show.html

I just made a fixture to hold the head tube and seat tube in line without using a full Jig. I also started playing with silver-brazing lugs.

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/04/jigs-and-silver.html

the thing you need to remember with silver is that hurrying and heat are both counterproductive. The spill you got is mostly a result of heat control, but it's likely the tube wasn't quite up to temp and the lug was too hot. If you add the filler on the part of the head tube that you are going to cut off, it doesn't matter if there is a lump of filler there so you can test to see if the temp is hot enough a little further from the lug.

So, to keep the lug from heating way up before the tube is hot, should I keep the torch further back for longer?

spread the heat out by moving the torch around. I like to go over the whole lug and start to get all the flux to at least crust over. Don't heat up the lug too much before you start trying to heat up the tube. So you should be moving the torch around on the lug and out onto the tube for part of the time. If anything gets too hot, move the torch. Flick it away.

Usually, if there is anything tricky its that you have a thick piece you can't heat up without overheating something thinner.

I'm really bad at explaining this because at this point I just do it and don't think about it.

Keep practicing. It's good to see you cut into the joint to see how it looks inside. I know you may be in a hurry to see a finished bicycle, and you can go that route, but I'd consider taking about $750 to $1000 and buying the least expensive IC lugs and tubes you can find. Call gas flux and order a case of type U flux in lb. jars. They also have the brass rod and type B flux you want, so get it also. Make it worth their time and get enough to see you through the next year. Miter, pin, tack them just as if it was all coming out of your jig. Then braze them all up as if it was an actual frame.

I say do it this way because I wish I had. Remember, those early frames are all forgetful at best anyway. If you think it's too much $ to spend, or too much time, stop now.

Overall though, I think you're doing fine. Don't take what I said above as negative, just realize the learning curve is pretty long on this stuff. If you do the practice things will start to click for you. Actually, brazing is the easiest part.
Craig

Awesome blog!
I did the same and my thread was deleted?

well anyways, heres my blog if you want to throw stuff back and forth: blackshipcrafts.blogspot.com. hopefully this sticks!
JB


*Disclaimer*
I'm just a guy that works as a mechanic in bike shops and has built a couple frames and trailers and was offering up my contact info if anyone wanted more info. I'm not like a commercial business or anything even close to that! sorry if i used the wrong language and set of your corporadars. I'll try to be more subtle in the future. And, maybe someday I will be a full time custom framebuilder, and at that point i will make it clear. Thanks. -JB

Craig Ryan: I've been practicing for a while. Obviously I've got a good while to go. That being said, I think I probably don't have the patience to go through quite that long a time-frame. My plan is to practice until I have a pretty good idea of what it looks like when things work. Then make a frame... then ride it for a bit, see what I want to change... then cut it in half and hang the drive side half on the wall (after checking how my penetration was). Then do more practice and make another frame.

Your way is probably a lot better, but a bit of compromise when it comes to keeping my momentum going may keep my head in the game getting into frame #2.

Black Ship:
Cool. Ha, we have the same initals.

Awesome blog!
I did the same and my thread was deleted?
none of your threads were deleted, but one of your posts was edited because it had your contact info. We generally don't let people's contact info stay even if it's not commercial, they can always PM you or you can say to contact through your blog. Sorry for the inconvenience.

You can also put a link to your blog in your signature

done.
thanks for the info!

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/04/cargo-rack-part-1.html

I started on a nice little cargo rack. Hopefully all of the little fillets will be good practice.

I can understand that, and it's why I didn't do it myself. But looking back I wish I had. We all need some gratification to keep us going, for me I had to make full frames. I suppose it's all good if you keep at it long enough.


Craig Ryan: I've been practicing for a while. Obviously I've got a good while to go. That being said, I think I probably don't have the patience to go through quite that long a time-frame. My plan is to practice until I have a pretty good idea of what it looks like when things work. Then make a frame... then ride it for a bit, see what I want to change... then cut it in half and hang the drive side half on the wall (after checking how my penetration was). Then do more practice and make another frame.

Your way is probably a lot better, but a bit of compromise when it comes to keeping my momentum going may keep my head in the game getting into frame #2.

Black Ship:
Cool. Ha, we have the same initals.

My custom cargo rack is starting to look like something!

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/04/cargo-rack-part-2.html

Many thanks for sharing all the info and processes you've gathered for your first frame build, it makes my path towards a first frame much more simple. Your blog is very nice. Oh yeah, where is Techshop located?

thanks,

Brian

nice job on the racks, brazing looks good from here. I'm thinking that the cleanup will make you wish you had spent some time moving the filler around for cosmetic reasons.

Brian: Here's their list: http://techshop.ws/locations.html I'm using the one in San Francisco, SOMA. Thanks for the compliment! Just be sure to do your own research, I'm dangerously untrained ;-)

Unterhausen: Thanks! None of the joints are done all of the way around, I just hit a side or two to keep it in place. When I fill in the rest, I'll definitely smooth things out a bit to avoid that particular penance ;-)

Haha Curmudgeon Bicycles, I have a friend who I climb with we call the Curmudgeon. Anyway, I think I might make use of your idea to use copper. I had considered making a head badge for my bike, but hadn't thought through what I would use. I had considered Aluminum, but wasn't relishing the thought of etching with Hydrofluoric. I think I can even buy some thin copper sheet at a local hobby supply store!

Very nice job on the head badge!

Thanks!

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/04/cargo-rack-part-3.html

More rack progress!

Even more rack progress. This time it's a wooden deck that I made with a combination of a laser cutter and no woodworking experience.

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/04/cargo-rack-part-4.html

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/05/brazing-interlude.html

Practice brazing

veryredbike- Well done practice piece. Good temp control and a full fill. Andy.

Even more rack progress. This time it's a wooden deck that I made with a combination of a laser cutter and no woodworking experience.

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/04/cargo-rack-part-4.html

Words to live by.

"It smells a lot like peppermint and probably kills you if you taste it out of curiosity."

Andy: Thanks! I think I'm starting to get it :-)

Sixty: Thankfully, the smell that it makes when it starts to dry a bit more erases any lingering temptation ;-)

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/05/lug-interlude-part-duex.html?spref=tw

More brazing. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and start the frame again next week, if I can get my main triangle mitered by then.

Any advice for adjusting a lug angle by a bit less than a degree, other than "file it in the direction you want it to lean"?

you might not have to adjust it at all, but filing is always a good way. If there are any edges that stick up, you can clamp or blacksmith them as required

Sounds good!

https://plus.google.com/photos/103665058422891763605/albums/5742279970899547569/5742279969463761010 (https://plus.google.com/photos/103665058422891763605/albums/5742279970899547569/5742279969463761010)

If you do have to adjust more than a couple of degrees, there is a guy on the framebuilding list that sells long steel bars for the purpose. I've never really run into a problem where I felt like I needed those, although I have readjusted the chainstay sockets on a BB shell. I've also had to do blacksmithing on lower head lugs.

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/05/mitering.html

Just finished mitering the main triangle's tubes. Went WAY faster than the first set. I also got the bottle cage bosses and the stops for the der cables on the down tube brazed on, but I'll put pictures of that in another post.

WOO! It's happening!

Finished the head tube/down tube sub-assembly. Only had to cold set a tiny bit. Quick question: what kind of respirator should I use for silver? Is a particulate filter enough? I haven't been bothering because I have this big vent thing near where I work, but I'm beginning to feel dumb about that ;-)

I'm using the cycledesign silver stuff, in 56 and system 48 along with their Stainless light flux.

as long as you don't use cadmium bearing silver and don't set the filler on fire, respirators depend on your flux, mostly. I've never used one. After a few months at Trek, I had a vague feeling of respiratory distress, but if you're not brazing 10 hours a day that might not be required. We had hoods there, but you still get a face full of flux smoke on a regular basis

Cool, thanks!

GRHL:SJAFDKJL:SDF!

Today I went in to do the BB/Seat tube sub-assembly. I tacked it, checked the angles, cold set them to within .1 degree of perfect. I started brazing and it felt a lot more natural than usual, something clicked. It was great... until I got to half way around and the BB just dropped off.

The comic timing was incredible.

On the up side, it was pretty clear that I'd gotten good penetration with the silver up until that point.

I'm going to try again tomorrow, four tacks this time instead of two. If I have to pin it or mock up a jig, I will, but I'm hoping that I won't if I just keep the heat down a bit.

VRB- Pinning is a good way to ALMOST completely eliminate tube/socket migration (there can still be some rocking of the socket on the tube with just one or two pins). With silver there's a greater likeihood of what happened to you. Brass takes enough more heat to remelt that fall off is less likely. One of the reasons to pin during your set up is to maintain the tube/socket relationship while you add braze ones, before doing the joint. I'll use a single pin to do this then a couple of tacks before aligning then the full brazing to finish off the joint. (As I have a jig i don't need to do more then one pin). Andy.

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/06/getting-bikey.html

First two joints done. Looking good, angles wise, thank goodness.

https://plus.google.com/photos/103665058422891763605/albums/5752309824512195441

Well... looks like I'm building a stable 55 instead of a responsive 56, but at least it's close enough to in-plane that I don't think I need to lean on it as of yet. Goals for bike #2 will include better heat control and more accurate measurements. Considering that it's my first attempt, I'm pretty happy! Also, I'm going to get checked out on the milling machine to decrease the fine tuning miters / actual brazing ratio.

I'm really glad I watched some of Paterek's videos. I'm sure it's obvious to people who've got a bit of experience, but the trick of holding a thumb on the back of a long strip of emmery cloth and then pulling it like a rip cord is really saving me time on cleanup!

255340255341255342255343VRB- Have you discovered scrapers yet? An old triangular file with the teeth ground off and an edge ground in will allow you to scrap off soft filler from lug edges without much lug line erosion. The one I made (photos attached) has a boat prow like shape and one large end and one small end. Andy.

255340255341255342255343VRB- Have you discovered scrapers yet? An old triangular file with the teeth ground off and an edge ground in will allow you to scrap off soft filler from lug edges without much lug line erosion. The one I made (photos attached) has a boat prow like shape and one large end and one small end. Andy.

I have not! When you say soft filler, do you mean when it's still hot, or just softer metals used as filler?

VRB- Even my old hippy fingers wouldn't stand up to the heat of still molten filler:). Scraping is done cold. The little that I use one is usually after other lug finishing methods have been used. A scraper can work on a very small area, like a glob on a lug edge. As well as make the miniscus of filler along the edge have the same size along the entire edge. The filler is softer then the lug or tube, Silver more so then Brass. Andy.

"no file" is my motto. I go back over the lug with the torch when the lug still hot and get rid of anything I don't like if there is anything. Of course, this might not work for the first dozen bikes. Just throwing this out there as a goal.

"no file" is my motto. I go back over the lug with the torch when the lug still hot and get rid of anything I don't like if there is anything. Of course, this might not work for the first dozen bikes. Just throwing this out there as a goal.

Adding it to my list ;-) I think most of my cleanup problems right now come from paranoia about if I got one spot or another actually filled. "uh... I'm pretty sure I got that... did I? ****... ok, more silver!"


VRB- Even my old hippy fingers wouldn't stand up to the heat of still molten filler:). Scraping is done cold. The little that I use one is usually after other lug finishing methods have been used. A scraper can work on a very small area, like a glob on a lug edge. As well as make the miniscus of filler along the edge have the same size along the entire edge. The filler is softer then the lug or tube, Silver more so then Brass. Andy.

Thanks! I'll make one up today!

http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/06/front-quadrilateral.html

Got the front triangle done a bit ago, but just got it written up. I'm starting on the chainstays, now. I've gotten the lengths worked out and pinned them (I'm falling in love with pins already). I've also got the ends of the seat stays mitered. They're going to be pretty :-)

Stays are ready for installation:
http://curmudgeonbicycles.blogspot.com/2012/06/making-stays.html

It's still raw, but I've ridden it. Man that's satisfying!

Congrats! Can't wait to see the pics.