Bicycle Mechanics - Handlebar radical change to help poor fit

I purchased a bike that is too large and cannot afford to buy another and no exchanges are possible. (The problem with internet deals I guess)

The bike is a 56 cm Motobecane CX fantom. (I ride a 54cm road bike...what was I thinking? :notamused:)

The handlebar is a standard road one but reaching forward to shift gears is unconfortable to say the least.

--What kind of handlebar would you recommend I put on instead?
--Looking for a very cheap alternative! :innocent:
-- I am using this rig to commute and would like the most upright position as possible...

Thanks.

PS: I have already switched stems (shorter higher angle) and changed seatposts (to a non-setback kind). and lowered the seatpost....

I've used Salsa bars for my wife's bikes because they have sizes out side of "normal". They offer a reasonably price Poco that is pretty short reach and a small drop.

PS: I have already switched stems (shorter higher angle) and changed seatposts (to a non-setback kind). and lowered the seatpost....

The shorter stem was a good idea, that would be my first suggestion. But you should ABSOLUTELY put the seatpost back to its proper position. The saddle must be positioned relative to your feet/legs on the pedals, it has nothing to do with reach. You are only straining your knees and making yourself less efficient with a lower saddle.

I wouldn't expect the difference between a 54 and a 56 to be that bad, is the top tube on this bike much longer? The next step is probably some sort of stem extender if you want a more upright position.

Also, if the bars on this bike are very wide going to a narrower handlebar can make the fit feel better.

...you should ABSOLUTELY put the seatpost back to its proper position. The saddle must be positioned relative to your feet/legs on the pedals, it has nothing to do with reach. ....

Correct. Saddle must first be positioned properly with respect to the crank, then you position the bars as desired with respect to the saddle.

I learned well about saddle position when I first joined up here. I always thought that you needed to be able to stand with your butt on the saddle and both feet touching the ground. Oh boy, that is wrong! When properly adjusted, you should not be able to have your butt on the seat while your feet are on the ground. You should be off the seat with one pedal up ready to push it down according to videos on how to properly take off from a dead stop on a bike.

My buddy who I ride with who is one of the dumbest people around when it comes to mechanical logic just doesn't get it and insists that he has to be able to sit on the saddle while at a stop. You should see him riding his bike.

How short a stem do you now have? I got the salsa poco bar and it did shorten up the reach.

When properly adjusted, you should not be able to have your butt on the seat while your feet are on the ground. You should be off the seat with one pedal up ready to push it down according to videos on how to properly take off from a dead stop on a bike.


Distance to the ground is irrelevant, but in general yes if you can put both feet on the ground the saddle is almost certainly too low.

Saddle height is only determined with respect to the crank/pedals. Keep raising it up until it's too high (can't pedal without bouncing or rocking hips) and then lower it back to a comfortable position.

I'm thinking you could convert to straight bars for under $100 retail all told. Is that an option for you? I must admit I haven't priced out flat bar shifters and brake levers in a few years. Is this a current model CX Fantom so we can peruse the BD site to see what components you have now?

The shorter stem was a good idea, that would be my first suggestion. But you should ABSOLUTELY put the seatpost back to its proper position. The saddle must be positioned relative to your feet/legs on the pedals, it has nothing to do with reach. You are only straining your knees and making yourself less efficient with a lower saddle.

I wouldn't expect the difference between a 54 and a 56 to be that bad, is the top tube on this bike much longer? The next step is probably some sort of stem extender if you want a more upright position.

Also, if the bars on this bike are very wide going to a narrower handlebar can make the fit feel better.

The difference between 54 & 56 is in this case massive. I was told this was because the 56 is a cross bike and the 54 a road bike....

I think the narrower handlebars might help -- the ones I have a ridiculously wide. I am off to the salsa web site and hope that it is not too pricey there.

Thanks for all the responses!

could set it up as an upright riding townie..

BD is a bike in a box you cannot test ride. this is what happens.

I'm thinking you could convert to straight bars for under $100 retail all told. Is that an option for you? I must admit I haven't priced out flat bar shifters and brake levers in a few years. Is this a current model CX Fantom so we can peruse the BD site to see what components you have now?

It is the current one Motobecane model.

The first sentence of your post looked great! The second or third sentence not so much... ;-) Yes I imagine converting or re-routing the cable (because the bike has two sets of brakes) will bring the price over $100 alas...

I am trying to sell the wheels it came with and the saddle and seat post to make these changes possible financially, but so far no takers even at low prices...

could set it up as an upright riding townie..

BD is a bike in a box you cannot test ride. this is what happens.

Ideally that's what I'd like to do -- what kind of bars would that entail? Where could I find them? Cheers.

There are a few ways you can go. I like a more upright ride also and have everything from beach cruiser bars to DIY bull horns. With the shifters you have you will be a little limited in what you can do without making large changes and $$$. I would suggest sticking with the drops and going higher still and maybe even back more. My drops on my Windsor are almost level with the saddle and the tops are quite a bit higher when you raise them the tube angle will bring them back. I like an adjustable stem because as my ride improves thru the season and each year I’m slowly lowering things. Short stem with a high rise is what I use on the touring bike. Below are a few ideas of things I have done.
http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/48298/2853714120037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2853714120037547136FYswCy)

Another road bike I made DIY bull horns by chopping an old narrow drop bar added a shorter stem and I like the result and that’s all that counts.
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46214/2940382950037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2940382950037547136wliKGM)


Older 10 speed with a large French fit frame I went with bars like this level with the saddle and very easy to ride.

http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/12282/2191122790037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2191122790037547136ASyRtQ)

Ideally that's what I'd like to do -- what kind of bars would that entail? Where could I find them? Cheers.

Nitto Albatross, Soma Sparrow, North Road style of any type. Check Amazon, eBay, your LBS, etc. You won't have trouble finding one.

I put a set of 3 speed style handle bars on my Schwinn to raise up the handlebars enough to make it comfortable. I tried some sparrow style, but they did not suite me right as I needed the handle bars more straight back and up. Made a world of difference. Tops of the handle bars are still level with saddle, but I do not have to always stretch forward when I ride, although I can when I wish.

Tom

I did a 10-minute check of bikeparts.com and I believe you could buy the parts you need for a flat-bar conversion for close to $100. You could go with Shimano Alivio shifter/brake combos for $60, and the bars and grips aren't all that expensive. (There are probably cheaper sources of these parts, that's just where I looked). The left side of the Alivios is for a triple crank. I'm guessing it would work with your double crank and Sora derailleur, but someone else can probably confirm or deny that. Some shifters come with the necessary cables/housing. You might want to check it out.

There are a few ways you can go. I like a more upright ride also and have everything from beach cruiser bars to DIY bull horns. With the shifters you have you will be a little limited in what you can do without making large changes and $$$. I would suggest sticking with the drops and going higher still and maybe even back more. My drops on my Windsor are almost level with the saddle and the tops are quite a bit higher when you raise them the tube angle will bring them back. I like an adjustable stem because as my ride improves thru the season and each year I’m slowly lowering things. Short stem with a high rise is what I use on the touring bike. Below are a few ideas of things I have done.
http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/48298/2853714120037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2853714120037547136FYswCy)

Another road bike I made DIY bull horns by chopping an old narrow drop bar added a shorter stem and I like the result and that’s all that counts.
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46214/2940382950037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2940382950037547136wliKGM)


Older 10 speed with a large French fit frame I went with bars like this level with the saddle and very easy to ride.

http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/12282/2191122790037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2191122790037547136ASyRtQ)

Wow, those are cool pics, cooler rides -- thanks for posting them

If you're gonna stick with standard road bars, there are probably some short reach, shallow drop compact bars that can really bring your front contact points closer in. The only problem is trying to figure it out from measurements online as everybody seems to measure from different points (center-to-center, outside-to-outside) which doesn't help...

Wow, those are cool pics, cooler rides -- thanks for posting them

Thanks

By the way as mentioned above put your saddle back to the correct height but more important put it back front to back where it needs to be. I’m guessing that a lot of what you think is a reach problem is really a weight shifting forward problem because your butt is to forward over the crank and when sitting upright and reaching to shift you don’t have balance over your legs. It’s hard to explain but moving your butt back allows you to reach because it’s counterbalancing the upper body weight.

Riser bars for a mt bike? They also make threaded and threadless stem extensions.

Be careful not to end up with a still to large bike for you after you spend more money on it.

Sell the bike and get one that fits.

THe problem is not that the new bike is a CX bike and you are used to road bikes, but perhaps that the new bike is 'compact geometry' or sloping top-tube design. Most compact geo. bikes fit similar to a standard geometry bike with a number (roughly) two or three sizes bigger. So your new bike that is called a '56 cm' is probably closer to a 60cm... waa-aaay too big for someone that fits on a 54cm tradtional bike.
I ride a 62 or 64 cm standard road bike and I fit on most 58 or 60 sloping top tube bikes.


This confusion is common but some manufacturers are re-naming their road and CX bikes to reflect how they compare to the traditional, level top tube, style of frame.

UNfortunately, it will be difficult to get the bike to fit you and you may never be fully satisfied with the results.

OTOH, I just looked up the Motobecane Fantom CX and the geometry doesn't seem too different from a standard 56cm road bike, and the pictures don't make it look much like a compact geometry bike. Do you have a bike that you know to be a good fit? You should measure both to see what the difference is.

Sell the bike and get one that fits.

+1. This will end up cheaper in the long-run compared to spending money trying to make this bike fit then selling it later.

It is entirely possible to flip the stem backwards, for a drastic change of reach. It'll look a bit funny, but is entirely a non-issue when riding. A few minutes and you're adapted.

It is entirely possible to flip the stem backwards, for a drastic change of reach. It'll look a bit funny, but is entirely a non-issue when riding. A few minutes and you're adapted.

I tried that. Didn't work. the angle of the stem is reversed when I flipped it backward, not sure how to explain it.
But anyways, the handlebars were in a good position, but way to low and my knees hit them.

To the other folks in re. the seat post height: I will raise it back to the original height and see how that works. Thanks.

To the folks that say "sell it", well that's way easier said then done. I would have to take a loss and I cannot afford it. Yes I understand that in the long run it would be cheaper, but I live paycheck to paycheck and thinking in the long run is something I cannot afford right now...

Thanks 2 all for all the advice!

Well, the bike at this point is basically worthless to you. You will be much better off with a much cheaper bike that fits properly than with a fancy newer bike that does not fit at all. Either get used to riding it as-is or sell the goddamn thing and get something that fits. You will take less of a hit by selling and re-buying something used than it will cost you in parts that probably won't get the result you want. It is a hard lesson to learn (and many of us here have learned it the hard way) but the sooner you figure it out the better.

Question: Did you buy the bike new or used? I am guessing used, because online retailers do allow for returns - if they didn't they wouldn't be in business for long.

Another idea - have you considered finding a whole new frame? A lot of the online retailers have very cheap frames on sale from time to time. Get yourself a new frame that fits and sell the too-big one on ePay.

Edit: Check these out:

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_511239_-1_202311_10000_202389
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product2_10053_10052_173397_-1

These are about the same price as new bars, stem, and seatpost. You can almost certainly get most of your money back by selling the Motobecane frame.

You can also find a very basic used road bike from years gone by and do a frame swap. It bears repeating: A fancy bike that does not fit will lose out to a basic bike that does.

Well, the bike at this point is basically worthless to you. You will be much better off with a much cheaper bike that fits properly than with a fancy newer bike that does not fit at all. Either get used to riding it as-is or sell the goddamn thing and get something that fits. You will take less of a hit by selling and re-buying something used than it will cost you in parts that probably won't get the result you want. It is a hard lesson to learn (and many of us here have learned it the hard way) but the sooner you figure it out the better.


+1

I've gone through it too. "We can do this the easy way or the hard way." I've learned the hard way, more than once.

OTOH, I just looked up the Motobecane Fantom CX and the geometry doesn't seem too different from a standard 56cm road bike, and the pictures don't make it look much like a compact geometry bike. Do you have a bike that you know to be a good fit? You should measure both to see what the difference is.

I was expecting this to be the difference as well, but the geometry matches my Bianchi Eros (which was not marketed as a cross bike at all) almost exactly! Methinks the OP should do some stretching to improve flexibility, and if he's truly living "paycheck to paycheck", WTF does he keep buying brand-new stuff? :wtf:

- Scott

you could cut your losses .. chalk it up to a learning time,
re sell the wrong size, then go and try, test ride, some bikes
on the sales floor in a Bike Shop. where there are people that want
to get you on the right frame size and model bike.

If you go to the Bikes Direct web page spec page and look at the 54 and 56 cm frames and compare effective top tube length you see there is a difference of 12 mm between the two. That’s a little less than a half inch. This isn’t a difference that can’t be adjusted for with some simple changes in fitting.



From what I have been reading the OP really is looking for much greater change than the difference in these two frames and his body size matching up with a 54 and he’s stuck with a 56 would produce. From what he writes it almost sounds like he wants a comfort bike and he bought a cross bike and that is a huge difference beyond just frame size. He said he liked the fit of a 54cm road bike he had and now this 56 is next to impossible to adjust to. There is something here I don’t quite understand?



Maybe a side by side photo of the two bikes we can compare.

Maybe even the 54cm bike is a little to large for him. That would better explain the problems he has fitting on a 56cm bike.

I re-read some of the OP's posts and he may be going down an impossible track. He said he fits a 54cm road bike, but also that he wants to be 'as upright as possible,' and that, when the stem was turned backwards the bar was in the 'right place' but his knees were hitting it... well I fear he might have an idea of how the bike is supposed to fit that is not compatible with a road bike - which are virtually never 'as upright as possible.' And I don't know of any 54cm (medium sized) road bikes that have such a short top tube that it would be similar to a 56cm bike with the stem turned backwards.
THe additional information we need to solve this mystery is: What 54cm road bike have you ridden that does fit? I suspect we all may not be speaking hte smae language one person's idea of a 'road bike' can be completely different from another person's idea of a 'road bike.'

Blaireau: please tell us what bike you have ridden that does fit and is comfortable to ride.

I re-read some of the OP's posts and he may be going down an impossible track. He said he fits a 54cm road bike, but also that he wants to be 'as upright as possible,' and that, when the stem was turned backwards the bar was in the 'right place' but his knees were hitting it... well I fear he might have an idea of how the bike is supposed to fit that is not compatible with a road bike - which are virtually never 'as upright as possible.' And I don't know of any 54cm (medium sized) road bikes that have such a short top tube that it would be similar to a 56cm bike with the stem turned backwards.
THe additional information we need to solve this mystery is: What 54cm road bike have you ridden that does fit? I suspect we all may not be speaking hte smae language one person's idea of a 'road bike' can be completely different from another person's idea of a 'road bike.'

Blaireau: please tell us what bike you have ridden that does fit and is comfortable to ride.

I agree and maybe his 54cm road bike was something like this 54cm road bike is what I’m also thinking.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/270810758421?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y (http://compare.ebay.com/like/270810758421?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y)

So here's what you do:
#1 Make sure you've got the headset adjusted just right, cause after #3, adjustment will be awkward.
#2 remove the top cap from the steerer tube
#3 knock the star nut way down there
#4 get a regular 1" quill stem, with minimum forward protrusion, plonk it in there. It should be a good fit in an 1 1/8 steel steerer tube. Use it in reverse if you wish
#5 now try to find a handle bar that'll work with as many of your current parts as possible. One option is to use an older drop bar with softer bends. They'll go through a wraparound stem clamp. Or if you're able to score a minimum protrusion stem with removable face plate, you can use your current bar. A so called moustache bar should work too, but I'm not too fond of the horizontal lever orientation those require.

Or sell off your brifters, use the cash to score some thumb shifters and regular flat bar brake levers. Then install a back swept North Road bar, or something scrounged of a discarded cruiser. As long as you don't end up with a pair of v-brake levers you should be OK. And even that usually isn't critical.

If you want to be posh, install a 28.6 seat post clamp instead of your curent spacers, then adjust headset before whacking away at the star nut. That'll let you remove your current stem for slightly less kludgy appearence.

So here's what you do:
#1 Make sure you've got the headset adjusted just right, cause after #3, adjustment will be awkward.
#2 remove the top cap from the steerer tube
#3 knock the star nut way down there
#4 get a regular 1" quill stem, with minimum forward protrusion, plonk it in there. It should be a good fit in an 1 1/8 steel steerer tube. Use it in reverse if you wish
#5 now try to find a handle bar that'll work with as many of your current parts as possible. One option is to use an older drop bar with softer bends. They'll go through a wraparound stem clamp. Or if you're able to score a minimum protrusion stem with removable face plate, you can use your current bar. A so called moustache bar should work too, but I'm not too fond of the horizontal lever orientation those require.

Or sell off your brifters, use the cash to score some thumb shifters and regular flat bar brake levers. Then install a back swept North Road bar, or something scrounged of a discarded cruiser. As long as you don't end up with a pair of v-brake levers you should be OK. And even that usually isn't critical.

If you want to be posh, install a 28.6 seat post clamp instead of your curent spacers, then adjust headset before whacking away at the star nut. That'll let you remove your current stem for slightly less kludgy appearence.

Kind of sounds like what I did here to a Schwinn Mesarunner. Those 2.5 tires run so good on the sand and this bar configuration is as upright as they come. That and low gearing makes this a dream to putt around on with a hot coffee.

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/23636/2643369530037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2643369530037547136CMvBGs)

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/47837/2749186980037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2749186980037547136XdXsvS)

Why not try a very short up angled mountain bike stem like this:
http://www.discountbicycles.co.uk/biz/product.php/8712/4067/powerplay_racepro_mtb_stem_60mm_35_degree_rise_25_4mm

That was just the quickest example I could find on my phone, but there are plenty of options which will probably fit your steerer and handlebars.

If you go to the Bikes Direct web page spec page and look at the 54 and 56 cm frames and compare effective top tube length you see there is a difference of 12 mm between the two. That’s a little less than a half inch. This isn’t a difference that can’t be adjusted for with some simple changes in fitting.



From what I have been reading the OP really is looking for much greater change than the difference in these two frames and his body size matching up with a 54 and he’s stuck with a 56 would produce. From what he writes it almost sounds like he wants a comfort bike and he bought a cross bike and that is a huge difference beyond just frame size. He said he liked the fit of a 54cm road bike he had and now this 56 is next to impossible to adjust to. There is something here I don’t quite understand?



Maybe a side by side photo of the two bikes we can compare.

I think you are right, I was looking for a cross bike because originally I comtemplated a 34 miles commute (17 each way) but now I am doing 4 miles each way instead. Suddently comfort turmps efficiency in ny list of priorities. But I already puerchase dthe bike and cannot take the hit financially to re-sell it.

If I sell the parts I pulled of the CX I shall by a high handlebar to try and change this into more of a comfort bike....

I re-read some of the OP's posts and he may be going down an impossible track. He said he fits a 54cm road bike, but also that he wants to be 'as upright as possible,' and that, when the stem was turned backwards the bar was in the 'right place' but his knees were hitting it... well I fear he might have an idea of how the bike is supposed to fit that is not compatible with a road bike - which are virtually never 'as upright as possible.' And I don't know of any 54cm (medium sized) road bikes that have such a short top tube that it would be similar to a 56cm bike with the stem turned backwards.
THe additional information we need to solve this mystery is: What 54cm road bike have you ridden that does fit? I suspect we all may not be speaking hte smae language one person's idea of a 'road bike' can be completely different from another person's idea of a 'road bike.'

Blaireau: please tell us what bike you have ridden that does fit and is comfortable to ride.

My curent road bide is a 54 cm Cannondale CAAD9 (from 2008~ aluminum made in the usa). It has a shallow fsa handlebar (also aluminum) and a 7degree (high) angle 10cm stem. It fits great. I feel really good on it.

Kind of sounds like what I did here to a Schwinn Mesarunner. Those 2.5 tires run so good on the sand and this bar configuration is as upright as they come. That and low gearing makes this a dream to putt around on with a hot coffee.

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/23636/2643369530037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2643369530037547136CMvBGs)

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/47837/2749186980037547136S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2749186980037547136XdXsvS)

That would be great! I am afraid that I am in no way tech say enough to install that on my bike. (I can change my tires whan I have a flat, and that's about that)

am afraid that I am in no way tech say enough to install that handlebars etc.
on my bike.
Precisely the person that should stick to shopping in a Bike shop, rather than online, Bikes Direct etc
due to weak background in mechanics .

so you have a false bargain, now.

Maybe the local shop will take the bike that doesn't fit on consignment for resale,
and you can test ride a proper sized one..

Precisely the person that should stick to shopping in a Bike shop, rather than online, Bikes Direct etc
due to weak background in mechanics .

True. but the markup in the bike shops makes it way out of my league financially.
Even though, yes I know I shall end up perhpas speding more money in the long term this way....

Of course what I could have done is pick the brains of my lbs and then gone on line an purchased cheap parts, etc... at the right size.

When my lbs was a big chain (performance) i had no qualms doing that. Now that they have gone and a local mechanic runs a shop I don't feel it would be right to do this, so I did not.

Good Luck to you then, and those decisions.