"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Race Promoters, why do you do it?

A crit that I've been looking forward to because of an interesting layout was cancelled today, apparently due to protests from the residents that live near the course.

http://www.socalreg.com/schedule.asp?race=UCLA+Crit

What struck me as strange is that they had the permits in hand apparently, but the matter was reexamined and overruled. Does this happen on a regular basis? I don't know the whole story, but if I were the promoter, I'd be a combination of furious and deflated. I think everyone thinks they know of an interesting place to put on a bike race, but pretty much no one actually follows through. So for anyone who has ever put on a race, what made you follow through, you obviously love the sport more than most, but was it worth it? I think it's safe to say you aren't in it for the money. How do you motivate yourself to put on a race not to mention multiple races when you have to deal with all this junk from not only the cities and their residents, but also ungrateful bike racers?

Yeah, I saw that. Kinda sucks. Gives you a chance to go to the CBR instead.

Why? I'm guessing for the love of the sport, the challenge of putting on an event, sense of contribution to businesses and riders, make some contacts and maybe, just maybe a small profit. Cheers.

If you are interested, there is more detailed info about why it was cancelled in this message (http://groups.google.com/group/wccc-cycling/msg/73808a579482ef7c).

Although I wasn't going to attend the race I was disappointed that it was canceled. It did look like an interesting course and I think all of us in SoCal appreciate something new & different after racing here a few years. Unfortunately I was not shocked upon reading why it was canceled. It's very difficult to get community/government buy in when it comes to blocking off streets here.

It takes a large scale effort to involve the local community if you want to inconvenience residents and race somewhere other than an industrial park. Dana Point & Brentwood Grand Prix are examples of how it can work. Both races require way more effort & resources than the typical cycling club has. Big sponsors, big budgets and key people with close ties to city government is how they get it done.

Our race, Tour de Murrieta, does it with a key group of dedicated volunteers. We all participate because we love bike racing and enjoy the satisfaction of putting on a successful race. Because I joined the sport late in life, I personally like meeting more & more of the bike racing community and the "elder" statesmen/women of the sport. Being part of the race helps me do that. I also get satisfaction in watching the event grow in prominence every year. I am self employed so the salesman/entrepreneur part of my personality gets a kick out of finding ways to make the event thrive.

<shameless plug>2012 Tour de Murrieta (http://www.capoolsracing.org)</shameless plug>

Sense of duty.

It's also a sense of protecting the racers, but that's related to sense of duty.

The club I belonged to started promoting the Bethel Series because another promoter was really gouging the racers. I think at the time the entries had climbed to $18 for a race, no prizes, and this for a training series in 1992. Our race started in 1993 at $8 per race, $45 for 7 races. We gave prize money. The two promoters both quit after that first year. One just wanted out, the other moved to Maine. The Maine one was the guy that really drove the race and the club - I ended up basically inheriting both. He shoved a small stack of papers in my hand and made the process into a little ritual. "You now hold the Bethel Training Series in your hands" or something like that. The next year I charged a little more, like $11, but we gave out something like $10,000 in merchandise (msrp) and $2000 in cash. We had good fields. The club really pitched in. The race never looked back.

When personal life got really tough, for about 5-7 years, I really, really, really didn't want to hold the race. I hated it. My back went out all the time from the stress. I ground my teeth at night (according to my then girlfriend). I was an absolute bear to deal with. But the folks looking to hold it in my place, the ones salivating on the sidelines, those were the guys that would jack up the prices and cut the prizes. I couldn't let that happen.

Why?

Our club started the race as "A race for racers by racers". I couldn't let the race fall into the hands of a promoter type. So I held the races through those really tough years. It was no fun at all, I totally hated it.

To top it off the promoting group (me and usually one other person) was set up as a not-for-profit so I couldn't take any money out. I raced for free, yes, but so did all the other helpers. I got food money (take $20 or $40 and tell a volunteer to buy everyone food), but again, so did every other volunteer. Sometimes I got gas money, and it made me feel bad. The only cash I ever made for many, many years was the prize money I won. Sometimes people would say stuff like "hey, no one would miss it if you took a few hundred dollars" but I wouldn't be able to live with myself. It's a duty.

I think the years where I really didn't want to hold the race, those were the years that actually cemented the race in place. That's when folks really appreciated what I was doing. I'm not a good poker player, I'm too easy to read. And it was painfully obvious that the race was an absolute pain to me, and I think that people really appreciated it. I find there's a lot of support for the Series now.

Some years it cost me a lot of money to promote the race; other years the race made a lot of money. Note, IT made a lot of money, not I made a lot of money. Earlier on it was easier to make money because one of the helpers, his wife donated $9k in prizes every year through her watch industry connection. We also didn't pay a cop, we manually swept everything (no leaf blowers etc), we had no computers, no tents, no radios, etc. As the race grew so did the cost of holding it. We bought a tent, then a second. Finish line camera, then another, and another. Folding banquet tables (always only on sale), then plastic ones. All sorts of chairs that eventually failed. Heaters. Propane tanks. A slew of printers (and for many years we used two of our own work laptops). One guy used his work to set up a corporation in Delaware or something (he was a high level financial executive with various teams under him that did stuff like that). I caused about $2k of damage to my mom's Subaru running the laptop off of inverters plugged into the cigarette lighter, and we did about $6k of damage to my friend's Land Cruiser. We lost about 5 tents to the wind, most of them lent to us by reps. We're on our third set of cones, third set of radios (after years of renting them).

The first year I did it all on my own (meaning the other guy finally stopped helping out), 2009, I sank $4k into the race, and we already had everything. The following year I sank another $1.5k. In 2011 I made money - for the first time ever I took on a cash sponsor. Without that sponsor I'd have made perhaps $500 for 6 weeks. Good thing too because I didn't make any prize money at all. I hope to make money in 2012, and the sponsor renewed their cash/merchandise commitment to the Series.

I do it because I can. I do it because I know I'm not screwing over the racers. I do it because I love racing the bike.

Aki, I wish it wasn't so damn far away.

I can relate to a lot of what you put out there...sense of duty, seeing something good grow, and mostly knowing that you're contributing to the greater good.

I'll make a suggestion...succession planning. At some point you'll need/want to step back and hand it off. Make sure it's in good hands.

Here in AZ you have to put on a race (or go in with another club) to be an 'official' team, or so I'm told. The teams seem to do OK with the income, but I don't think anyone's getting rich.

Is this different in each state?

I thought of the succession thing. I've contemplated handing the race over to someone, but they'd have to be committed 1000%. At this point I'm not ready to do so, but I know it won't last forever. I have to admit that most of my grown life I've been running this race. The area has changed dramatically since the race's inception, going from basically vacant to two rows of buildings on some lots. Now the park is turning into a retail zone, and that's kind of troubling.

Recently I've also thought (and I never thought of it before) what if I die? Very few people know what it takes to run the current iteration of the Series. The former co-promoter Gene knows, but he lives in Virginia. Who else? Pretty much no one. He knows all of it. A lot of people know bits and pieces, but no one else knows all of it. Okay, the Missus does, almost (except the finish line camera). But no one else.

The indoor area we use for registration, Panificio Navone (now it is, it used to be just Navone Studios) is committed to 2 more years in its current lease and will probably renew for 5 more years. Frank said that he figures he'll commit to the Series for that long, 7 years total to go. Rumor has it that a bike related store will fill one of the vacated spots next door, but that's just a rumor. He's the first retail location in the park, and if it works out, they'll rezone or redo some of the other areas. I don't know if that's good for the race, but I'm sure it's good for the town.

There are two families that really help me run the race. One of them could do it, with the Missus or with Gene. I think either of them would be suitable to take over.

I have to admit that when I took the packet of papers, I wasn't thinking 2012. I was just thinking 1994. I never thought it'd be like this.

This year I just hope the volleyball folks are okay, and the new owners of the building on the first turn are nice. Beyond that... time will tell.

Here in AZ you have to put on a race (or go in with another club) to be an 'official' team, or so I'm told. The teams seem to do OK with the income, but I don't think anyone's getting rich.

Is this different in each state?

USAC rule states that a sponsored club has to put on a race. Most clubs get added to a permit - this is easier than actually holding a race.

The rule is meant to propagate races. If all clubs held a race, there'd be a lot of races. Think of all the kits you see. Think of all the races you do or know of. Can you put a kit to every race? Probably not. That means that there's a kit that has no race. If they are following the spirit of the rule they'll be helping out at a race. If not then they're just riding off of someone's permit or they're changing their club's name every year to avoid being "banned" from wearing a kit.

In general, in principle, I frown on the "adding to the permit" thing. I know sometimes it's all you can do, but if you rely on it, you don't hold a race, and that's not fair to the racing community.

It's not like I benefited from that, back in the day, so I understand the teams that don't do it, or find a friendly promoter to add their name to the race. Before Bethel the old cycling team went through a few years where we had to change club names annually. We were FCVC, Fairfield County Velo Club, something I forget, BBC Racing Team (or something like that), Racing Team Silvermine, RTS, and finally Carpe Diem Racing. At points before we held a cross race, a road race (11? mile loop - chief of police was not impressed with the pack and said that we'd never hold a race in his town again, and he was right), and marshaled the Greenwich Crit for its two final years. We rode a permit for a hill climb for two years, I don't even know where it was.

In the last few years I've put two other clubs on my permit (Carpe Diem Racing is my "club"). When Bethel Cycle donated some prizes, I put their team on (now they promote the Housatonic RR, so they don't need me any more). I race for Expo Wheelmen and they commit to helping and attending, so I put them on. Thule's team offered some merchandise prizes in return for a permit addition - I know the guy from way back and he's a good guy so I put them on. Pretty much everyone else I turned down. At some point I got mad and ranted about "A permit ride is worth $1500, so if you want to be on my permit, write me a check for $1500". I didn't have any takers haha.

A Cat D race can have two clubs on a permit I think. Maybe three? I forget. Bethel's races are Cat Ds. If anyone wants to put their club on a permit, I have six open spots at $1500. Maybe twelve.

<shameless plug>2012 Tour de Murrieta (http://www.capoolsracing.org)</shameless plug>

agoodale, I was going to b!tch about the early start times for the 4s, but after reading cdr's posts about the difficulty both professionally and personally about having to put on a race, I probably should just be thankful that anyone is willing to undertake such a monumental task and wake my butt up early to get to murrieta.

CDR, I have a feeling at some point, plenty of good karma will be going your way.

Btw, socal/collegiate people, does anyone know if UC Irvine is going to happen?

agoodale, I was going to b!tch about the early start times for the 4s...

CDR, I have a feeling at some point, plenty of good karma will be going your way.


haha can you imagine if you put that up in a knee jerk reaction kind of way? And then I posted my rants? haha. You should do agoodale's race. Remember, the folks running the race will be there before you, and they'll be there long after you leave. Unless you help break down.

I'll give you this - most racers drive from further away, so many have to get up earlier than the promoter. I have to get up at 5:15 for Bethel (registration opens at 7, first race at 8). I'm on the road by about 5:35, at the race at about 6:00-6:15. We usually finish packing up at 4:30-5:00 PM. That doesn't mean that some Cat 5 won't be up at 4, and that some P123 racer won't be home until 8 (for the longest time we had racers from upstate NY, VT, NH, but most of them do Johnny Cake now).

Lots of people still don't know this but I moved away from the Bethel area about 5 years ago. I now live about 1.5 hours away. I'm lucky that my dad still lives about 30 min away, so I go down the day before and stay there. It doesn't help my drive back though - I'm usually home at 7 or so.

Re: karma: I'm a really fortunate guy. I can't complain. Rant maybe, but not complain. I'm very thankful for what life's offered me so far.

As far as my rants go, if one racer decides to enter one race just to support a promoter, then it's worth it.

There are other things too. My name doesn't show up on a lot of confirmed rider lists because I know the promoter gets more money from day of race registrations. So I'll usually do that, unless I think the field will be full. Some promoters hate it when they don't get pre-reg, so if you care about the promoter, contact them and ask if it's okay to do day of race.

If you're feeling really charitable, enter a race regardless if you think you'll race it. When I ran a charity ride (to benefit a cat shelter of course), a good half dozen teammates registered for the ride even though they were doing a huge cross race the same day. They wanted to show their support, and they did in that way. I've only entered a few races where I haven't shown up, pretty much all of them the Paul Ruhlman memorial (Naugautuck Crit). Paul was a Junior who died very young and he taught me stuff in the brief time I knew him. So I try and go to the race each year, and if I'm not there, I try and register anyway if I feel okay spending the money.

agoodale, I was going to b!tch about the early start times for the 4s, but after reading cdr's posts about the difficulty both professionally and personally about having to put on a race, I probably should just be thankful that anyone is willing to undertake such a monumental task and wake my butt up early to get to murrieta.


I've done The Tour of Murrieta the last three years. It's a great race. Do it. You'll really love it if you're a sprinter.

If you're a climber, you'll complain about the course not being selective enough.

CDR, I appreciate your honesty that you don't take any money out of the race for yourself. But I know you've put personal money into the race, so I hope you at least pay yourself back. That's only fair.

Bad News: Anyone want to take over the Housatonic Hills Road Race before it goes away ??

I've done The Tour of Murrieta the last three years. It's a great race. Do it. You'll really love it if you're a sprinter.

If you're a climber, you'll complain about the course not being selective enough.

Thanks for the compliments.

We've wanted to take the race up into the local hills for years. The problem is that they're not part of the city. They're unincorporated county land or the city of Temecula. Permits with either of those entities is a major hassle (not to mention the guaranteed complaints from reclusive ranch property residents).

The other issue is that we like where we sit on the calendar and the current status of our race as prep. for San Dimas stage race & the NRC Redlands stage race. Our race gives teams three days of solid racing without taking too much out of their legs. Secondly, we use omnium scoring so there is no cut off every day like other stage races. This gives the "less trained" participants in each category one of the only opportunities to race an entire weekend.

On the race not being selective...Yes & no. The race is what you make of it.

It's USAC rule that teams must put on an event that's why I started doing it. But it's also very rewarding too and you get to bring in people from all over to come and share the experience of your local roads. I've had all kinds of problems putting Crits on but never had to pull one so soon to the race date. The road races I've done are way out in the middle of no where and you get some complaints but mostly people are willing to work with you. It helps if you notify people and even donate money to the local fire and rescue and any churches on the course, that sort of thing. But Town/City permits can be difficult because no one likes closed roads.

Sad thing is I gave up promoting not because of the hassle in getting permits and dealing with people but because my state cycling association has made the officials and police requirements so ridiculous that I cannot afford to do it.

CDR, I appreciate your honesty that you don't take any money out of the race for yourself. But I know you've put personal money into the race, so I hope you at least pay yourself back. That's only fair.

+1. I hesitated to comment on your situation CDR. You give much of yourself and that's a rare quality.

I don't benefit financially from our race but our team does and I wouldn't do it otherwise. I think one of the best guarantees to keeping a race around is for it to be profitable. Not profitable because the racers are being gouged. But profitable because the race gives value to the participants and, in turn, profit to the promoter. The problem of succession is different for a profitable race. There will be no short supply of people willing to take over. But, in this case, the promoter gets to choose who is willing to continue their vision & goals for the race.

USAC rule states that a sponsored club has to put on a race. Most clubs get added to a permit - this is easier than actually holding a race.

The rule is meant to propagate races. If all clubs held a race, there'd be a lot of races. Think of all the kits you see. Think of all the races you do or know of. Can you put a kit to every race? Probably not. That means that there's a kit that has no race. If they are following the spirit of the rule they'll be helping out at a race. If not then they're just riding off of someone's permit or they're changing their club's name every year to avoid being "banned" from wearing a kit.

In general, in principle, I frown on the "adding to the permit" thing. I know sometimes it's all you can do, but if you rely on it, you don't hold a race, and that's not fair to the racing community.

It's not like I benefited from that, back in the day, so I understand the teams that don't do it, or find a friendly promoter to add their name to the race. Before Bethel the old cycling team went through a few years where we had to change club names annually. We were FCVC, Fairfield County Velo Club, something I forget, BBC Racing Team (or something like that), Racing Team Silvermine, RTS, and finally Carpe Diem Racing. At points before we held a cross race, a road race (11? mile loop - chief of police was not impressed with the pack and said that we'd never hold a race in his town again, and he was right), and marshaled the Greenwich Crit for its two final years. We rode a permit for a hill climb for two years, I don't even know where it was.

In the last few years I've put two other clubs on my permit (Carpe Diem Racing is my "club"). When Bethel Cycle donated some prizes, I put their team on (now they promote the Housatonic RR, so they don't need me any more). I race for Expo Wheelmen and they commit to helping and attending, so I put them on. Thule's team offered some merchandise prizes in return for a permit addition - I know the guy from way back and he's a good guy so I put them on. Pretty much everyone else I turned down. At some point I got mad and ranted about "A permit ride is worth $1500, so if you want to be on my permit, write me a check for $1500". I didn't have any takers haha.

A Cat D race can have two clubs on a permit I think. Maybe three? I forget. Bethel's races are Cat Ds. If anyone wants to put their club on a permit, I have six open spots at $1500. Maybe twelve.

Thanks for the info! I didn't know how that all worked. I know we're putting a new club in our permit this year to help them out. They just formed this year and needed to get on one. We needed the volunteers. It seems like most of the races out here are put on by the teams themselves, but I don't really know. I don't think they are getting any of the fees from the race though. I think fees go towards prizes and any leftover goes into the team coffer for race fee reimbursement, etc. Nobody on the team is getting paid though.

CDR, do you prefer that people do day-of or pre-reg for Bethel? I take it day-of puts more money in your pocket.

Now that I'm a total sell-out car owner I'm planning to be there every week. And like a dumbass bringing along my sprinter friends from other teams who are going to beat me.

hb, agoodale, thanks for the thoughts/comments. Ultimately I'm not doing this to give away whatever money I have, so, yes, my goal is to make back that money. I did some very costly experiments - like the sticky back numbers, which ultimately cost me about 2x normal, and added a LOT of stress to the whole process. I've added a lot of fixed costs, the police, paying for help (getting volunteers was too stressful), and increasing actual prize money paid out. On the last bit the advertised amount has remained about the same, but in reality the race is giving out about $1.5-2k a week and $3-3.5k the last week, not $855 or whatever I advertise, and that's just in cash. If you do the math it's a good $10k in cash prize payouts for 6 weeks.

In 2012 I'm going back to normal numbers, I have the same sponsor back, and I hope that I'll be ahead of the game. I don't plan on reducing the prizes, I didn't increase the fees (except I made the clinic mandatory for the Cat 5s so in effect that's increased income), and I hope to add a different (to be announced) background benefit. Oh and a better finish line camera system.

As far as pre-reg goes, day-of is much better for me at my race. Because of the computerized registration, it actually takes less work to process day-of-race entries versus pre-reg.

There are two exceptions. Cat 5s should pre-reg because it usually fills. And for women I eliminated the day-of penalty/fee, so women can do day of and it's fine. For you GA either works. If you want a smoother beginning of the day you should pre-reg. This way you can walk up, sign the release, take your number, and get ready to race.

I have not been a promoter, but last year I was on the race committee for one of my club's road races (we promote several races and sponsor a UCI CX race). There is so much work to putting a race on. This road race in particular passes through eight towns. A permit is required in every town. Some towns require a police officer, some require an EMT. One turn on the course is onto a state highway with three outlets, which requires three state policemen for the entire day. The race could not be pulled off without dozens of volunteers...marshalls, lead cars, wheel trucks for every field except P/1/2, registration, race committee, logistics, etc. etc. etc. These people need to be well taken care of, which means providing coffee, snacks, and a good hearty lunch no matter where they are on the course. The course is on narrow roads and needs to be swept, which means renting power brooms and getting 8 guys to sweep for the entire day before. The race committee has to field questions, complaints, make changes, refunds, blah blah blah for several weeks up to the start. The break-even point is about 425 riders unless we raise the entry fee. Last year we had close to $500 so we made a little money.

So when someone complains about there not being enough fields, I laugh.

GA - the women's race ends up everyone following one or two strong racers. Then, eventually, it all finishes together. If you're doing some good work this winter you should save, save, save, and counter when the first flurry of attacks starts to die down (5-7 laps in). When everyone is looking at each other you have to go, and if you can draw out some other unexpectedly strong racers, you have good potential. If you draw out the favorite then you ease up, recover, and try again.

Also you have to use the wind to your advantage. Get the gap into the tailwind so the work is a bit more even between you and everyone else. Then use the headwind to your advantage, as you're already separate from the field. That first stretch, if it's a tailwind, will kill the riders who lack speed. The backstretch, if it's a headwind, is brutal for whoever is pulling.

If you can see someone working really hard into the wind, you should launch a sharp attack as soon as they pull off. Put a lot of pressure on them when they're already working hard. I'm not saying you may snap the elastic (although that'd be nice) but you may be able to really zap their reserves.

One thing about your nemesis favorite is that she lacks pure speed. She's more diesel. A quick jump puts her into the wind while she closes and forces her to work really hard. Repeat a dozen times and she's doing a lot of work while not on a wheel. That can be critical.

If you're climbing well, try and hit the hill as slow as possible. Then accelerate over the top. It really kills the wheelsuckers when you do that, I can attest to that. Accelerating uphill really hurts, and the slower you start, the worse it is. Sharp speed here can really hurt, and gaps can take a while to close down.

Also, if/when you get caught, if you're cooked, you should immediately get on wheels and rest. None of this hanging out near the front. Get on a wheel, get in some shelter.

You know the trick to finding out where the wind is from? You stick your head up and turn it side to side. When it feels like your gf is blowing in your ear, that's where the wind is coming from. Put a rider in that direction, between you and the wind. Keep a rider there. Shelter. Save. Then use everything you have to demolish the group.

CDR, thanks, as always. Duly noted, and much appreciated.

CDR, do you prefer that people do day-of or pre-reg for Bethel? I take it day-of puts more money in your pocket.

Now that I'm a total sell-out car owner I'm planning to be there every week. And like a dumbass bringing along my sprinter friends from other teams who are going to beat me.

You bought a car and didn't tell your online family?

You bought a car and didn't tell your online family?

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/KateAmos/car.jpg

Not what I thought I wanted, but it was cheap, low mileage, and fits the bill in terms of hauling myself, my friends, and all our crap to bike races.

Thanks, Aki. I know someone in the women's race who will appreciate this info! ;)

And I'll see you bright (or dark?) and early in March.

The other issue is that we like where we sit on the calendar and the current status of our race as prep. for San Dimas stage race & the NRC Redlands stage race. Our race gives teams three days of solid racing without taking too much out of their legs. Secondly, we use omnium scoring so there is no cut off every day like other stage races. This gives the "less trained" participants in each category one of the only opportunities to race an entire weekend.

On the race not being selective...Yes & no. The race is what you make of it.

I agree about the placement in the calendar and omnium scoring. Because it's close to SDSR, people ride really strongly at Murrieta. The race is plenty hard for me, it's other people who say it isn't selective enough. There are enough rollers to wear people down.



As far as pre-reg goes, day-of is much better for me at my race. Because of the computerized registration, it actually takes less work to process day-of-race entries versus pre-reg.


How did you computerize registration?

Thanks, Aki. I know someone in the women's race who will appreciate this info! ;)

Roger that. One thing about women's racing is that although the % in power variances may be about similar, the actual wattage number differences are smaller. So, for example, in a men's race, even the Cat 5s, there may be guys attacking at 1500-1600 watts (I'm thinking Jon B, when he was a 5, on Bethel). Other riders are doing well to break 1000 watts. There's a 30% difference (going down from 1500 to 1000) but a very huge 500w actual difference. In the women's a huge attack might be 800 watts, and 30% down would be 550 watts. 30% is about the same but 250 watts is not as significant, not for creating separation or blowing apart a field.

Therefore the women doing the attacking need to really save and really launch sharp, decisive attacks. Launching a whole bunch of 600w attacks may not create separation off of 400w responses but two or three 800w attacks may be more effective.

btw I still have to finalize stuff for the clinics, perhaps for early this coming week.


How did you computerize registration?

We have a laptop (okay we have a "computer") and have a spreadsheet that helps do a lot of the dirty work. Currently we put in the name, license, etc, and the sheet tells us the racer's number.

Note: The spreadsheet is not shared so right now it just resides on one computer - I've been contemplating sharing it on a wireless router that I carry to the races so multiple stations can update the spreadsheet. Also, all the initial data i.e. pre-reg comes from BikeReg. This requires an import, some data massaging (checking for twice entered racers, etc), and a couple different "sorts" before the data is usable in our spreadsheet. I made a conscious choice to support BikeReg and not use USAC's system. Usually I prefer to support USAC over other organizations (like for race permits), but in the pre-reg game I think USAC didn't do BikeReg (a system that really, really helped me as a promoter) any favors.

When we score we just type the bib numbers in and the rest of the line auto-fills with racer name/team/etc. This allows a decent typer to input 20 places in about 20-30 seconds.

This also populates a sheet that I can save as a csv and send to USAC, with all the required fields per USAC regs. This is fantastic as I used to agonize over a few evenings trying to get stuff all set to send to USAC.

Spreadsheet also counts racers, insurance fee, one day and annual licenses, etc. It tells us how much to make the check out to USAC. It's good enough that we print it out instead of filling out the USAC paperwork. I was thinking of finding a dot matrix printer to fill out all the triplicate stuff but decided it's much easier to just print three copies of each page.

I'm still working on the budget part, where it balances the cash drawer. We are usually off by a huge margin because the spreadsheet doesn't do a good job forcing the registration people to put in a good number.

Note: I should add that I trust the registration people with all my heart, it's one of the main reasons I've asked those particular people to work registration. The vetting process can be, literally, a decade or so. Some of the registration folks weren't born when the Series started, or they were little kids. I babysat them when they were little, I know their parents, and I trust them too. Like I said, I trust them implicitly.

I'd also like to put just the license number in and have it auto-fill everything, including alerts for age (under 18 or, if Master, under xx age), suspensions, and category mismatch. I download the racer database each week (10MB or so) and use that as a point of reference for USAC lookups, but I haven't worked out the formulas and such yet.

The regular officials at Bethel (a husband/wife team that have been officiating there for 15? years) tell me it's the quickest and most efficient set up for registration/results/paperwork they've seen. For many years they've suggested selling my services to other promoters. They've actually boasted about the system to other officials. This is the one thing where I feel a bit protective of what I have - I feel like it ought to be somewhat open but I also feel like I shouldn't give it away for free.

This is all done on Excel. I adapted it to OpenOffice but then decided to buy Microsoft and went back to Excel. The formulas are different enough that trying to support two apps was a bit time consuming.

I'd also like to put just the license number in and have it auto-fill everything, including alerts for age (under 18 or, if Master, under xx age), suspensions, and category mismatch. I download the racer database each week (10MB or so) and use that as a point of reference for USAC lookups, but I haven't worked out the formulas and such yet.

It's pretty straightforward in excel-- I was doing that for track stuff where it would fill out the start sheets and then for each race within an omnium I'd do auto-lookups on race number to do the results sheets. Do some testing with it a few times, and put in some anomalies-- excel has odd behaviors and bad exception handling. The 'lookup' function only works if the lookup column is pre-sorted- any out of order items will mess it up. It also won't fail properly if a number isn't in the list-- it will usually interpolate and give you the next one that's actually there. There's apparently some ugly way to do it that will work right, but it rapidly starts looking like it's easier to run your own local mysql server and make a web interface (you get scaffolding that will handle most of it) that has better exception handling. I can send you some examples of my excel if you want. I didn't set alerts--just copied the relevant columns (age, cat) etc for reg people and officials to be able to check.

SCNCA also has a windows program for road events that apparently works well, but it's closed source and may cost money. It also doesn't format correctly for submitting to USAC. I keep meaning to write something that will reformat it, but it ends up falling far down on my list-- I'll probably do it in "processing (http://processing.org)" for portability.

I also want to hear some details about your latest fun with finish cameras. There was a recent thread on the USAC officials email list about camera systems, and most people are still using MiniDV+mac+iMovieHD (the older version actually works better than the newer fancier versions).

I have to experiment with the lookups. Right now it's simply not done, no column set aside for it. And yes, Excel is terrible with anomolies, and I found out a couple years ago the hard way that a list that's not in order is no list at all (I used a broken up number set and that was a disaster).

Alerts - basically if the value of the field is x, it turns yellow (or whatever). This way an underage master or overage Junior will trigger an alert.

Ultimately it's not a spreadsheet kind of thing, it should be more like a database (Access?). I don't know database stuff, haven't bothered experimenting. MySQL or whatever.

I managed to misplace one of my cams so I haven't yet experimented with the finish line camera. Another thing to do asap, as it needs to be working in 3 weeks. I think I'll set the two settings on the back of the camera to the two settings I want to use (720@60fps for granularity and 1080@30fps for clarity - if I need 1080 (for clarity) @ 60fps (for granularity) then I'll buy a camcorder. I may be able to stick some numbers on some riders tomorrow and take a few shots of them descending into the complex where I live. 30-35 mph, if they're all kind of side by side, and I have a stack of sticky back numbers from 2011.

I found out a couple years ago the hard way that a list that's not in order is no list at all (I used a broken up number set and that was a disaster).

That's what real databases do well-- you tell it what you want to index on and the rest is transparent. I haven't used msaccess, but play a lot with mysql. Alerts are probably not hard to set up, but the code in each cell will start looking really ugly, unless you can do it as a separate thing that you run (though it's better to have it pop up realtime if you can).



I managed to misplace one of my cams so I haven't yet experimented with the finish line camera. Another thing to do asap, as it needs to be working in 3 weeks. I think I'll set the two settings on the back of the camera to the two settings I want to use (720@60fps for granularity and 1080@30fps for clarity - if I need 1080 (for clarity) @ 60fps (for granularity) then I'll buy a camcorder.

I suspect that you'll find 720 is plenty good, as long as you have enough light and the camera is high enough. We used SD and never had problems, though we only had to shoot over about a 10m range. The thing I've been warned about for outdoor finishes (which I generally didn't have to deal with) is that you need a polarizing filter to deal with glare, and need to adjust it throughout the day.

That's what real databases do well-- you tell it what you want to index on and the rest is transparent. I haven't used msaccess, but play a lot with mysql. Alerts are probably not hard to set up, but the code in each cell will start looking really ugly, unless you can do it as a separate thing that you run (though it's better to have it pop up realtime if you can).

I suspect that you'll find 720 is plenty good, as long as you have enough light and the camera is high enough. We used SD and never had problems, though we only had to shoot over about a 10m range. The thing I've been warned about for outdoor finishes (which I generally didn't have to deal with) is that you need a polarizing filter to deal with glare, and need to adjust it throughout the day.

Realtime popups/alerts are good. A cell color change is easy to see and will alert even the most exhausted and distracted registration person (like me haha). Excel offers that so that's good.

I was just writing out a flow chart of test/result/action for the cameras. I have some riders visiting tomorrow so I'll use them as test subjects.

We point our camera kind of into the sun, unfortunately, and so I may have some exterior spotlights on to help light everything up. If we can read numbers at 720p then I'll be totally psyched. I prefer to use something like a Contour+ due to its low weight, relative durability, and ease of use. We've dropped every one of our camcorders, including the $2500? GL2 or whatever we have now. It's terrible to watch our 10' high tripod slowly keel over in heavy wind, with a 3 or 4 or 5 lbs camera at the top.

With a Contour type camera we could easily mount two or three cameras no problem, and we could record the last 15 minutes of every race.

Plus, as someone pointed out, I could use the same camera during the year on my helmet.

Man... watching the TXBRA forums for years now... it seems no promoter can ever satisfy everyone (duh) and with the magic of anonymous internet *****ing, everyone can whine and moan no matter how well your race is executed. I'm surprised anyone ever tries a second time.

Around here there are not enough empty weekend dates that would allow every club to put on a race. As a result we kind of have to fight for dates and there's some shady stuff that goes on.

I promote .....That's about all the energy I have to write right now.

Man... watching the TXBRA forums for years now... it seems no promoter can ever satisfy everyone (duh) and with the magic of anonymous internet *****ing, everyone can whine and moan no matter how well your race is executed. I'm surprised anyone ever tries a second time.

Someone should ask all the whiners which race they promote.

In the spirit of open-ness I'm posting to say that unless something weird happens the race will make money this year. This is based on the preliminary registration numbers right now.

Man... watching the TXBRA forums for years now... it seems no promoter can ever satisfy everyone (duh) and with the magic of anonymous internet *****ing, everyone can whine and moan no matter how well your race is executed. I'm surprised anyone ever tries a second time.

A friend and I put on a training series down here in the summer, while the FL races are on break. We put out a poll as to the day of the week, include Tues, Wed, Thurs and Sat am. We get a reply saying "I think it'd be better on Sun am, can you change the poll please?". Really??? Oh yeah, I mention it at dinner last night and my wife and daughter knew exactly who wanted the change.

One year a number of people criticized me for not reusing numbers. They said it was wasteful and pointed out that I could save money by reusing numbers.

That's true, yes. I agreed with both points.

But then I pointed out that we had people who paid just one week and raced the others. They had no insurance. I'd be on the hook if they took someone out since USCF (at the time that's what they were) wouldn't cover anything if there was one uninsured rider in their midst.

In order to prevent this I changed numbers every week for every category. In the days where we could use non-white backgrounds, I'd use different color backgrounds. This way racers would have a harder time finding a number that matched.

At any rate the people who criticized me (at least they did it to my face) listened to me and walked away mumbling about what an idiot I was.

So does one of our local clubs take a risk by encouraging riders to use the same number for every Tuesday night race?

Yes, I think so. But if it's a smaller race it's easier to track. A field of 80 or 90, not so easy, especially if someone jumps in a lap into the race and drops out just before the finish.

We've also seen fake licenses, blatant copies of licenses etc.

One year a number of people criticized me for not reusing numbers. They said it was wasteful and pointed out that I could save money by reusing numbers.

That's true, yes. I agreed with both points.


It's also a bookkeeping headache for the promoter and officials, especially if you have a fair amount of turnover in the fields. You have to make sure everyone has a unique number, so you end up going through a lot of sequences of 100 with different first digits. But the officials also like it if everyone in any particular field has the same first digit and unique last two digits. It lets you tell if people are in the right field with a glance. If people race two fields it's easy to look up the odd non-matching first digit to see if they're supposed to be there, though I've also seen promoters issue a different number for each field you're in (you swap jerseys between races, or pin one set over the other and tear the top ones off after the first race). The unique last two digits makes scoring easier, because even with a camera, officials generally will score races by hand as well (and usually track as many people as possible every lap), and it's easier to do when you only need to keep track of two digits instead of 3.

I was Chief Ref several years ago at our spring series - three weekends in a row of using the same numbers. The reg people got start sheets to us seconds before each start to it was impossible to check everyone off. I knew there were people in the race the second weekend who did not pay for that day.

So...I just announced that we were filming the entire field with the finish camera at the end of the first lap, checking the numbers against the start sheet and recommending anyone who had not registered that day for suspension to USAC. Lets just say there were quite a few riders "dropped" and withdrawing on lap 1 - and no problems on the third weekend.

I was Chief Ref several years ago at our spring series - three weekends in a row of using the same numbers. The reg people got start sheets to us seconds before each start to it was impossible to check everyone off. I knew there were people in the race the second weekend who did not pay for that day.

So...I just announced that we were filming the entire field with the finish camera at the end of the first lap, checking the numbers against the start sheet and recommending anyone who had not registered that day for suspension to USAC. Lets just say there were quite a few riders "dropped" and withdrawing on lap 1 - and no problems on the third weekend.

Love it... our Tuesday nighter had a couple of weeks of "surprise head count / roll call" that outed 2-3 riders who hadn't paid.

I'm bumping this partly to get that Cat 4 thread off the top :)

Seriously though I didn't see the updates. The "finish line camera" is great.

Incidentally we're using a ContourHD as a finish line camera now (720@60fps) and it's fantastic. Legible numbers on the other side of the road, very clear if someone is ahead or not, etc. At some point I will post a video for reference sake so other promoters can see how it works.

I got a second Contour (a Contour+) to use as the primary camera, to aim both (since you could use Bluetooth or HDMI to view what the camera was seeing). I'm not sure what it is but we can't read any numbers on the Contour+ (720@60fps "Action HD" which uses twice as much memory as "Regular HD").

I don't know what to do with the Contour+ but I'm tempted to buy a second ContourHD as I want two cameras up there (to total 120 fps, even if they're not totally synced hopefully they'll stagger enough to call any dead heats). Also if a battery dies or something it'd be nice to have the backup.

The "finish line camera" is great.


so with the Contours, can you feed the video signal directly into something else or is it record to card and then stick the card in something to read it? The latter is probably good for crits, but for track stuff we often have sprints every 10 laps and score them on the fly, so it's nice to record straight to iMovie and step through the movie to pick numbers. The resolution isn't as good though.

so with the Contours, can you feed the video signal directly into something else or is it record to card and then stick the card in something to read it? The latter is probably good for crits, but for track stuff we often have sprints every 10 laps and score them on the fly, so it's nice to record straight to iMovie and step through the movie to pick numbers. The resolution isn't as good though.

record to card, usb to the laptop in the trailer under it. I should take pictures of the rig for a blog post.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430726_269311453146902_251013518310029_586219_784799119_n.jpg

I didn't think FB was uploading so I attached, then they were there in FB (twice). Anyway you can see the resolution, 720@60fps.

So, with a short time to go (a lap?), the camera guy stands up, turns on the cameras, says "Cat 3-4 race" or something, sits back down. After the finish he goes back up, turns off the cameras, connects the USB cables (25' boosted USB, can be used for up to 100? feet, we're using one cable for the main camera ContourHD and we connect the second one Contour+ if necessary), downloads the file to the laptop.

He can then review at leisure. He was getting primes and such as well.

Incidentally the Contour+ is totally unreadable, numbers are fuzzy. Not sure why. The ContourHD is the one to use.

After the series reg population (Series registrants are inserted into each individual race of the series) the numbers are even higher for this weekend than last. And frankly last weekend was a record, by a huge, huge margin. So thank you everyone.

in pic 1 the dude in green is going for one seriously long bike toss. srsly. later.