Classic & Vintage - Italian city bikes

A week or so ago, in a thread about some Italian bike or other, a prominent member here who is an expert at this, said (not quoting) most vintage bike enthusiasts don't understand that the Italian builders City Bikes were their "high end" bikes, in comparison to their racing bikes.
I don't see many Italian city bikes to speak of, one small website specializing in them is here:

http://www.myoldbicycle.com/

but other than that, not much.
Are there so few of them that they just don't come up for inspection?

Show Italian city bikes if you have them!

I was in Turin in '10 and saw this lovely Leri mixte outside of the Olympic stadium...Columbus tubes, Campy group and lightweight to boot.The owner was wearing the coolest cycling shoes even though she had city-style platform pedals. Note the unusual join of the top tubes and seat stays.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ya_o8it_HcA/TZKQCcJIcSI/AAAAAAAABUg/qF_ZE7ctazs/s800/DSC00086.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7uk0Y_3y41A/TZKQHtutpcI/AAAAAAAABUk/BaC0tS6ZQwg/s800/DSC00087.JPG

Italian city bikes are still high-end bikes:

http://www.umbertodei.it/images/stories/catalogo/IMPERIALE-D.jpg

http://www.umbertodei.it/images/stories/catalogo/IMPERIALE-U.jpg

http://www.umbertodei.it/index.htm

Most here won't consider it highend but Bianchi tried to market something like this back in the early '90s. I loved it but most dealers turned their noses up. perhaps Bianchi was just too ahead of the curve on the city bike thing.

[QUOTE=clubman;13865172]I was in Turin in '10 and saw this lovely Leri mixte outside of the Olympic stadium...Columbus tubes, Campy group and lightweight to boot.The owner was wearing the coolest cycling shoes even though she had city-style platform pedals. Note the unusual join of the top tubes and seat stays.

Speaking of Italian shoes...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/2853489286.html

This guy has a bunch of them on his flickr pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/94628946@N00/

I don't own one, yet. But I am a big fan so I'll post the following just because.

Taurus
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rTcJb0FL0T0/TzTtTSdXCrI/AAAAAAAADWM/T5FnRCf_Mys/s1600/DSCN0440.JPG


Bianchi
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NoYVMi5K6Po/TwsjfJKjIjI/AAAAAAAADOQ/5dUOh00tjyQ/s1600/DSCN0008.JPG


Ganna
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yaAhiB6jh2M/S_EOwrYKxYI/AAAAAAAABDM/D_0Zw8T63wE/s1600/100_3081.JPG


Olympia
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yaAhiB6jh2M/THy7W7BakAI/AAAAAAAABVw/0p4_2U9jyvw/s1600/405176226.jpg


Maino
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y6avNR2AA1k/Tr0IwFvXtII/AAAAAAAADEg/NG5zg9MA58E/s1600/DSCN3229.JPG


Wolsit
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yaAhiB6jh2M/TCoMQdWWJHI/AAAAAAAABOQ/Hi5v0XZ5quY/s1600/P6200050.JPG


Umberto Dei
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uhqGhRcozGw/TmndVDwDX9I/AAAAAAAACvU/dp-HRwcR170/s1600/DSCN0028.JPG

Here's an Italian bike that was set up for "city" when I found it, but the conversion was done here when the original owner bought it, at his request. Since been converted back to "road".
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee430/slipangle99/Frejus/Frejus1-1.jpg
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee430/slipangle99/Frejus/Frejus8-1.jpg

Lovely_Bicycle owns a modern interpretation of the classic Italian city bike, a Bella Ciao:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6060/6334855080_4b17e23187_o.jpg

She collaborated with the company to make a handful of them to her specs and sold by Harris Cyclery here in Boston:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6184/6078449634_962a39bef0_o.jpg

Woo Hoo! Second time this week I get to post my Bianchi Milano Sport. I call it my Italian 'English' 3 speed because it is running a Sturmey Archer drivetrain. I have a hard time believing this was ever 'high end' though - even in '59 when I'm guessing it was built. I take this bike when I don't feel like lugging a lock with me. I found one with a similar paint scheme. Love the gold pinstripe on the black paint.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l530/blilrat/Bikes/59%20Bianchi%20Milano%20Sport/IMG_20111229_114327.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l530/blilrat/Bikes/59%20Bianchi%20Milano%20Sport/IMG_20111229_114414.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l530/blilrat/Bikes/59%20Bianchi%20Milano%20Sport/IMG_20111229_114341.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6115/6295719421_3200fb7a1d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rentalbikeitaly/6295719421/)
Bianchi 50's bike restoration by Pelizzoli (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rentalbikeitaly/6295719421/) by rentalbikeitaly (http://www.flickr.com/people/rentalbikeitaly/), on Flickr

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee430/slipangle99/Frejus/Frejus8-1.jpg

Are those levers integrated with the cool bars? Will you sell them to me? :love:

Are those levers integrated with the cool bars? Will you sell them to me? :love:

Yes, they are. They even say "Frejus" on the inside surface of the levers. They are cool, eh? Seen the same shape and configuration on other Italian bikes so I figure they must have been farmed out by many makers. And, no, I won't send them to you, sorry. At my age, I may need them again some day ;)

Yes, they are. They even say "Frejus" on the inside surface of the levers. They are cool, eh? Seen the same shape and configuration on other Italian bikes so I figure they must have been farmed out by many makers. And, no, I won't send them to you, sorry. At my age, I may need them again some day ;)

I believe a company called Varese was the OEM for those bars. They made them Frejus, Bianchi, Learco Guerra and other Sport bikes that were very popular in the 50s/60s. They are pretty common on ebay. See them most every week.

http://www.ebay.it/itm/MANUBRIO-HANDLEBAR-CONDOR-CONDORINO-BICI-BICICLETTA-EPOCA-/190638766570?pt=Ricambi_per_biciclette&hash=item2c62f4b9ea

iab has posted a photo of one Taurus bike. Go check out this website: http://biciclette-taurus.blogspot.com/ and you can see a large selection of other Taurus bikes. My dream is to eventually own a Mod. 25 (check out the integrated internal brakes)

Some very cool bikes on that site. You fellows who can read Italian have the advantage of us. And thanks Iab. I had seen those bars illustrated in The Data Book, but never knew who made them. Wish I could find a pair of the little adjusters that came, I think, on the original levers.

My Italian city bike:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3002/2508500725_7342665ab4.jpg
EVERYTHING on this bike is stamped or labeled Legnano, the hubs, rims, cranks, brake levers, even the bell!
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3047/2508497699_76c871411b_m.jpg

Some very cool bikes on that site. You fellows who can read Italian have the advantage of us. And thanks Iab. I had seen those bars illustrated in The Data Book, but never knew who made them. Wish I could find a pair of the little adjusters that came, I think, on the original levers.

I think your best bet is to machine custom adjusters. Or find an old parts bin in a shop in Italy. I have a thing for those Sport bikes. I don't know what it is, they are the Varsity of Italy and typically go for 100-200 euro. It costs more to ship back here than the cost of the bike. Although there is this Bianchi Sport for 1500. Looks NOS from the 50s. It is exactly what I want but way more than I would ever spend. Unless of course I hit the powerball.

http://annunci.ebay.it/annunci/biciclette/brescia-annunci-brescia/vendo-bici-bianchi-del-1951-lendro-sport-lusso/22674002

iab has posted a photo of one Taurus bike. Go check out this website: http://biciclette-taurus.blogspot.com/ and you can see a large selection of other Taurus bikes. My dream is to eventually own a Mod. 25 (check out the integrated internal brakes)

Those brakes are really cool. I'll assume they probably work like crap but still cool nonetheless.

I'd love to see picturse on how they route the brake rods through the stem, head tube to the down tube. There is a contest call the Oregon Manifest about designing a utilitarian bike and I have an idea I want to design. Everything is completely integrated yet it has the theme of "what is old is new". The brakes on the Mod 25 are perfect for that.

My Italian city bike:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3002/2508500725_7342665ab4.jpg
EVERYTHING on this bike is stamped or labeled Legnano, the hubs, rims, cranks, brake levers, even the bell!
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3047/2508497699_76c871411b_m.jpg

What is something like this worth on eBay ? Or just in general?

Those brakes are really cool. I'll assume they probably work like crap but still cool nonetheless.

I'd love to see picturse on how they route the brake rods through the stem, head tube to the down tube. There is a contest call the Oregon Manifest about designing a utilitarian bike and I have an idea I want to design. Everything is completely integrated yet it has the theme of "what is old is new". The brakes on the Mod 25 are perfect for that.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5kJlUI5hJrg/Sw6knvPu2SI/AAAAAAAABq8/GCcXtj9iMZw/s757/img014++Web++copia.jpg

The brakes actually work very well, at least as well as any other rod brake.

What is something like this worth on eBay ? Or just in general?

I bought that bike on eBay about 3 years ago for around $150 including shipping. I cleaned about 8 lbs of dirt off it and rode away
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2255/2509323856_887e310c16_m.jpg

I have a bunch of photos of low-endish bikes that I shot on the street in Roma and Terni. An unexpectedly large number of city bikes in Terni. I'll post them when wifey gets off the Mac.

The brakes actually work very well, at least as well as any other rod brake.

Unfortunately the picture doesn't show how the rear brake rod transitions from the stem to the down tube. Is there a joint of some type so you can move the handlebars?

Unfortunately the picture doesn't show how the rear brake rod transitions from the stem to the down tube. Is there a joint of some type so you can move the handlebars?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eGXpyUjcpJM/ScoQSGNNcII/AAAAAAAABJU/H3WHRwIH9WI/s1600/img228+Web++copia+copia.jpg

This hand-made drawing shows how it works. There was a Bianchi model called "Super Bianchi" in the 20's that also had full internal from brakes but nothing quite as sophisticated as the system in the Taurus.

Yes, they are. They even say "Frejus" on the inside surface of the levers. They are cool, eh? Seen the same shape and configuration on other Italian bikes so I figure they must have been farmed out by many makers. And, no, I won't send them to you, sorry. At my age, I may need them again some day ;)

I had a set of those bars/levers on a city bike I gave to my son while he was in college. Unfortunately, the bike was stolen and the bars went with them. My son says he saw the frame some time later as part of a "tall bike" but the rest is gone...

What are the bikes made of? How heavy are they?
Let me frame my question a bit.
As an example the green Taurus, and others, have geometry and look somewhat like a Raleigh DL-1.
A DL-1 is a fairly heavy bike.
Are some of the Italian bikes made of light weight tubing & other weight-saving strategies, even though they are utility bikes?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eGXpyUjcpJM/ScoQSGNNcII/AAAAAAAABJU/H3WHRwIH9WI/s1600/img228+Web++copia+copia.jpg

This hand-made drawing shows how it works. There was a Bianchi model called "Super Bianchi" in the 20's that also had full internal from brakes but nothing quite as sophisticated as the system in the Taurus.

Thanks! Correct me if I am wrong, but the rear brake is in purple. The rod comes down the stem and it looks like it attaches to a ring on the inside of the steerer tube. When the brake lever is squeezed, it lifts the rod and disc "up". The disc pushes on the yellow lever arm that is attached to the downtube and protrudes through a groove cut into the steerer tube. No matter how much that disc turns with the handlebars, it is always in contact lever arm. Obviously you can't have 360 degrees of turning the handlebars, but judging by the drawing 90-120 degrees would easily be achieved.

Nice, simple mechanism. The groove in the steerer tube is completely internal and would not pose any structural penalty.

Do the Taurus bikes typically go for higher amounts than the Bianchis and Umberto Deis?

What are the bikes made of? How heavy are they?
Let me frame my question a bit.
As an example the green Taurus, and others, have geometry and look somewhat like a Raleigh DL-1.
A DL-1 is a fairly heavy bike.
Are some of the Italian bikes made of light weight tubing & other weight-saving strategies, even though they are utility bikes?

There were many light-weight city bikes, including full aluminum bikes in Italy in the 30's... You need to understand that city bikes represented the 80-90% of the whole bike market and therefore the really high bikes like the Taurus Mod. 19 and Mod. 25 might only have represented 1% of sales but they were considered to be the "halo product" of the bike line which was used to show the market just what they were capable of building. The Lautal model from Taurus was built as a sub-11 Kg bike including full fenders and chaincase (about half the weight of a DL-1!). I have ridden quite a few DL-1's and in my opinion they are a poor excuse for a bike when you compare them to the top Italian and French city bikes. They are unnecessarily heavy and slow handling.


Thanks! Correct me if I am wrong, but the rear brake is in purple. The rod comes down the stem and it looks like it attaches to a ring on the inside of the steerer tube. When the brake lever is squeezed, it lifts the rod and disc "up". The disc pushes on the yellow lever arm that is attached to the downtube and protrudes through a groove cut into the steerer tube. No matter how much that disc turns with the handlebars, it is always in contact lever arm. Obviously you can't have 360 degrees of turning the handlebars, but judging by the drawing 90-120 degrees would easily be achieved.

Nice, simple mechanism. The groove in the steerer tube is completely internal and would not pose any structural penalty.

Do the Taurus bikes typically go for higher amounts than the Bianchis and Umberto Deis?

The sliding collar in the steer tube (the part highlighted in purple/pink) is indeed what controls the rear brake. The rod that is actioned by moving the rear brake lever threads into the collar whereas the rod that is actioned by moving the front brake lever passes through a more or less central hole in the collar. The collar has a goove for the front end of the yellow pivot on about a 180° range.

The more complex Taurus bikes are highly sought after with prices considerably higher than almost all racing bikes in Italy. If you find a Bianchi Super, it will be on a similar price to the top Taurus models. Bianchi, Umberto Dei and Taurus all made ranges of bikes. So you can't really compare brand to brand but you could compare models within the range to one another. Taurus tended to be slightly higher priced bikes only whereas Bianchi and Dei sold a wider range of bikes.

Pardon my C&V ignorance here, but I always thought Frejus was a French bicycle. As I recall from my High School Italian classes, there's not even a "J" in the Italian alphabet. Maybe a non-native frame-maker building bikes in Italy? Always something new to learn.

I'm 2 for 2 on this- Last month I would have sworn that Marinoni was Italian.

It's a bit deceiving, Frejus being a town on the southwest coast of France and all. But the bikes, Italian through and through, were apparently named in honor of those who lost their lives building the Frejus tunnel under the Alps between Italy and France. Here's some info from the Classic Rendezvous site:

"Frejus (alternatively written Freyus) was founded in 1896 in Torino by Emmo Ghelfi and still run by him in 1946. The brand was later acquired by Emilio Bozzi and co-produced in Milan with his Legnano and Woolsit brands. In the mid 1970s, Mr. Bozzi was kidnapped & assassinated by the Red Guard. The company was then dissolved, his family having lost heart to continue the enterprise. By the early 1980s, the brand license was obtained by Bianchi and in 1988 a new usage of Legnano took place in a Bianchi financed team, starring Maurizio Fondriest."
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee430/slipangle99/Frejus/Frejusheadbadge1-1.jpg

Wow, thanks. What an interesting history. Like I said, always something new to learn. I'll have to do some googling and get more of the details on the info above.

I guess the founder of Frejus enjoyed his time in Frejus and named his line of bikes after the city. And yes, the Italian alphabet has no 'J'.

Marinoni is Italian born but immigrated to Montréal long ago.

If you want to better understand the history of the name Frejus, you must actually go back to prior to 1858. In fact, up until 1858, the house of Savoy (Savoia in Italian), the last family to reign over the kingdom of Italy had control over the whole area where the Frejus mountain is located, as well as the city of Frejus (in what is now France), as well as the location of the Frejus mountain tunnel (which now features one outlet in Italy and one outlet in France). It was therefore a wholly "Italian" territory. The King of Italy launched work on the Frejus tunnel while the whole area was under Italian control. However before the building of the tunnel was completed, a portion that now makes up the Savoy (Savoie in French) area of France (1 point to whoever guesses where the name stems from) was ceded to France. Therefore since the bike company was founded less than 40 years after the transfer it was still recent history. In Italian the j is not used as we would use it in English, but you do see it occasionally. It is known as a "long i". Our Y is known as a "greek i". Both of these terms are meant to differentiate from the normal "Italian" I. The J and the Y are both used to indicate a slightly different pronunciation of the letter I. There is however quite a bit of debate within Italy how to pronounce them and they therefore often get interchanged. That's why the former pro cycling team Jolly is alternatively written as Jollj or Jolly or Jolli (BTW if you play cards in Italy, a Jolly is our Joker).

Man, this history lesson gets better by the minute! Hats off to our illustrious C&V scholars.

This is getting interesting!:thumb:

Photos of random classic Italian city bikes nella strada. Pretty random and NOTHING fancy. A few 500s and well. They are fancy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8214363@N05/sets/72157629386618803/

A few 500s and well. They are fancy.



Here is my old 1954 500C Abarth

238041238042

Check out the advert for the new 500 Abarth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cpi2IAec9Ho

I take this bike when I don't feel like lugging a lock with me.

Oh, man, don't say that. Take a lock. No scumbag thief deserves that lovely bike.



http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l530/blilrat/Bikes/59%20Bianchi%20Milano%20Sport/IMG_20111229_114327.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l530/blilrat/Bikes/59%20Bianchi%20Milano%20Sport/IMG_20111229_114414.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l530/blilrat/Bikes/59%20Bianchi%20Milano%20Sport/IMG_20111229_114341.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6115/6295719421_3200fb7a1d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rentalbikeitaly/6295719421/)
Bianchi 50's bike restoration by Pelizzoli (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rentalbikeitaly/6295719421/) by rentalbikeitaly (http://www.flickr.com/people/rentalbikeitaly/), on Flickr

Here is my old 1954 500C Abarth

238041238042

Check out the advert for the new 500 Abarth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cpi2IAec9Ho


That's how I felt about this little station wagon. Mi fa male il cuore!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/6903467813_9b1cda4062_b_d.jpg

That's how I felt about this little station wagon. Mi fa male il cuore!



I owned my 500C for 15 years. The first year that I owned it, it was my only vehicle, also used to make the 20 km commute to work in (in the province of Treviso.) I later brought it with me to the US and eventually sold it to a surgeon in McAllen Texas.

238102

I would buy a new Fiat in a heart beat.

I bought the car when the odometer read 60,000

I guess the founder of Frejus enjoyed his time in Frejus and named his line of bikes after the city. And yes, the Italian alphabet has no 'J'.

Any football (that's "soccer" for you Yanks :twitchy:) fan knows that the letter "j" is used in Italian. At least in Torino!

You-vent-tuss!! (I worshiped AC Milan back in the glory days)