Advocacy & Safety - The purpose of Critical Mass: Not about the bike?

I’m looking for opinions.

Is Critical Mass a political statement on war?

Or is it a statement that Cycling is a viable form of transportation that should be recognized and that we are also due our rights to ride the streets as cars do?

The reason I ask: the local mailing list was recently hit with an email for a ride against the President on inauguration day. CM is supposed to be about cycling. When I questioned the applicability of this to CM, I was rebuffed with various statements. First and foremost was that CM wasn’t about riding, but that it was about not destroying the environment through war. It was suggest I read the “CM book” (funny, I wasn’t aware of an instruction book), and that CM wasn’t “just about the bike”.

I’m looking for opinions, as my intent is to join and be part of something that advocates cycling, safety rights, and awareness. I’m not against banners, statements, etc. But I’m not going for protest against an administration or an action…

Because if we were to do that, what about a free Tibet ride? Or perhaps a ride to attrack attention to Rwanda genocide?

Looks like some people have Hijacked the idea!
Do you have any regular CM people in the area that you could contact and see fi they are involved?
If they are then dump 'em and start your own and ride for the sake of riding.

In my opinion CM is whatever you make of it. If you want to ride your bike against the president (and clearly many do) then that's what CM is about. If you want to ride for the environment, then that's what CM is about. It's not organized by anyone in particular so how could it really be about anything in particular?

In my opinion CM is whatever you make of it. If you want to ride your bike against the president (and clearly many do) then that's what CM is about. If you want to ride for the environment, then that's what CM is about. It's not organized by anyone in particular so how could it really be about anything in particular?

Yoshi, you kind of contradicted your self there.

Is CM about the bike, or the political point? That's what I'd like to know. I'm not one for tearing up a group, so I'd rather bow out. But I thought that CM was about cycling and not about pro this anti that goverment stuff...

Anyone else jump in here and give their two cents?

Anyone else jump in here and give their two cents?
You're an idiot?

You're an idiot?

That may be, but do you have an opinion or not?

If not, go suck a potatoe.

I’m looking for opinions.

Is Critical Mass a political statement on war?

Or is it a statement that Cycling is a viable form of transportation that should be recognized and that we are also due our rights to ride the streets as cars do?

The reason I ask: the local mailing list was recently hit with an email for a ride against the President on inauguration day. CM is supposed to be about cycling. When I questioned the applicability of this to CM, I was rebuffed with various statements. First and foremost was that CM wasn’t about riding, but that it was about not destroying the environment through war. It was suggest I read the “CM book” (funny, I wasn’t aware of an instruction book), and that CM wasn’t “just about the bike”.

I’m looking for opinions, as my intent is to join and be part of something that advocates cycling, safety rights, and awareness. I’m not against banners, statements, etc. But I’m not going for protest against an administration or an action…

Because if we were to do that, what about a free Tibet ride? Or perhaps a ride to attrack attention to Rwanda genocide?

It seems like Critical Mass has become more political now that we in war. Once the ride starts, you quickly forget about what it was all about and just ride. (Providing you don't go to jail!)

In it's purest form, I think that CM is a simply a celebration of cycling. There have been other similar organizations, such as Bikes Not Bombs, that actually predate CM (70s Vietnam era I think). My understanding is that BNB was similar to CM in the style and visibility of their rides, with a somewhat different and more political anti-war agenda. I believe that BNB started in Berkeley and I'm not even sure it's still an active organization anymore. Anyway, I think that the lines between these groups have become blurred over the years, probably due to the mutual interest of many participants in both bikes and progressive or anti-war politics. In retrospect, although calling out for political demonstrations on CM lists seems like a convenient way to organize, it might have been better for CM if its name wasn't used for some of these other activities, as it has tended to cause CM to be characterized recently as a demonstration or a protest, rather than as a celebration of cycling.

there is an undeniable relation between promting the bike and bringing down the administration, esp the current administration.

If you have to ask the question I think you know the answer. It is clear that in recent years CM has become less about the bike and more about politics. However, regional differences exist.

Another CM debate? lol. I don't understand why it's so controversial in some respects.

Yes, I think it's abundantly clear that many CM rides have become intertwined with politics and protest. As far as I'm concerned it can be good and bad, but the short answer is "No, Critical Mass is not always about the bike."

Critical Mass: when I hear those words now, I don't even think of "bike ride" anymore.
It doesn't sound fun and whenever it's brought up it often leads towards negativity.
Too much bickering, too much hassle just to take part in (here in NY anyway).
I don't think I'll be found at one of these gatherings.

That may be, but do you have an opinion or not?

If not, go suck a potatoe.
Sorry, Bill, just gettin' you back for callin' me a racist(?) the other day. Whoever you have me confused with remains unmolested, however. Here's my opinion:
I've been involved in a lot of protests, logging, nuclear power, globalization and I have noticed an inability by a large contingent on the left to stay on topic. I can't count how many times I've been to a march, for example,against the war in Iraq, and one faction wants to turn it into a pride event, another group wants to smash windows at Starbucks, and another group wants to bring attention to deforestation. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, but isn't the march about Iraq, not Mumia Abu Jamal?
I feel as if a large part of the criticisms of CM ( which I see as a positive thing in theory,) come from this tendency among Leftist circles, somehow cycling advocacy is magically part of a continuum that includes flag burning, Chomsky and Wicca!
Oh, and Bill, no more personal attacks on the internet, OK? I 've got no hard feelings towards you, but it doesn't make you seem like Conan so much as a knucklehead when you ambush people out of the blue like that, and they're not there in person. I went back to look at some of your posts to figure out if you're a psycho or not after you jumped down my throat, and you seem like a person with a good heart who's on a furious path and has a lot on his plate. But take a chill pill,OK? I'll make an effort to use emoticons more often so people know when I'm joking, in case that's your problem with me, if not, add me to your ignore list if my posts mess with you so badly and you think it's possible for me to be a Jew and a racist at the same time!
Nathan

Yoshi, you kind of contradicted your self there.

Is CM about the bike, or the political point? That's what I'd like to know. I'm not one for tearing up a group, so I'd rather bow out. But I thought that CM was about cycling and not about pro this anti that goverment stuff...

Anyone else jump in here and give their two cents?

I fail to see how I've contradicted myself. CM is simply the act of cyclists agreeing to meet at a specific location at a specific time to ride in the streets. That's all it is. A lot of people who ride in the Critical Masses happen to be liberal, anti-war, environmentalists, etc. and they often push their agenda, but just because some group riding in the Critical Mass is riding for a specific cause doesn't mean the CM is political or environmental or whatever. To each person it means something different.

Sorry, Bill, just gettin' you back for callin' me a racist(?) the other day. Whoever you have me confused with remains unmolested, however.

You called Koffe Brown a Porch Monkey. And a few other things. I'm not exactly KB's biggest fan, but, you suck for it. The thread has been deleted: I looked. But you did it when a couple of threads were closed.


Oh, and Bill, no more personal attacks on the internet, OK?

Listen, I thought, for a minute, that perhaps you were a "friend" who was alternate posting. In so much as I sent that "friend" an email saying that the racial remark wasn't very @#$ funny.
Seeing as how that's not true: I'm going to go back where you said that I'd have "no teeth" if I talked like that in person.
That was a suggestion that I have no basis to talk this way, and wouldn't do so. I assure you, I will, and do. I also suggest that if you think that I'd have no teeth, to think again. I'm very capable of defending myself.


I 've got no hard feelings towards you, but it doesn't make you seem like Conan so much as a knucklehead when you ambush people out of the blue like that, and they're not there in person.

BS. If you had no hard feelings, you would have PM'd me. You didn't. If you were that upset, you could have said so. No, you saved it until now. If you've got a problem PM me. Don't hunt down a post and start a new fight. That's chicken ****.



I'll make an effort to use emoticons more often so people know when I'm joking, in case that's your problem with me, if not, add me to your ignore list if my posts mess with you so badly and you think it's possible for me to be a Jew and a racist at the same time! Nathan
I never said anything about you bieng a Jew. And it is possible to be a Jew and a racist. Your problem is you posted some racist BS. And that doesn't sit well with me.

I remember the exact post you're talking about, some guy in Chicago made a post asking about powder coating and called Koffee a porch monkey, I posted on that thread telling him he was history, but did not make the initial post. The guy was immediately banned and the thread deleted, do you honestly think they would let me continue to post after a comment like that? Again you have me confused with someone else.
PS Although I'm definitely afraid of the stateside "Human Resources" branch of the military, I'm pretty sure I could take you.

I fail to see how I've contradicted myself. CM is simply the act of cyclists agreeing to meet at a specific location at a specific time to ride in the streets. That's all it is. A lot of people who ride in the Critical Masses happen to be liberal, anti-war, environmentalists, etc. and they often push their agenda, but just because some group riding in the Critical Mass is riding for a specific cause doesn't mean the CM is political or environmental or whatever. To each person it means something different.

It makes sense now, it just takes about 3 reads to get it (I can be slow at times).

The person who is on the email list said CM is no longer about the ride. You're saying that CM isn't about politics, but about the ride. In a round about way.

I remember the exact post you're talking about, some guy in Chicago made a post asking about powder coating and called Koffee a porch monkey, I posted on that thread telling him he was history, but did not make the initial post.

I seem to remember it being you. However, lacking the ability to search and prove it, and it not bieng 100% solid in my mind, I'll digress, and apologize.


PS Although I'm definitely afraid of the stateside "Human Resources" branch of the military, I'm pretty sure I could take you.



Sigh, again with vieled references towards violence. You know, I'm not a black belt, not a big time gun owner, not any of those things. You sure do want to say that you'll be the one to kick my ass, and really, I'm not sure why. Why you assume that I'm some rat terrier who barks loud but is ankle high, I don't know either. I'm not hear to get into your baited conversation about who could kick who's ass.

You read my blog, big deal.
You think that you can take me. Big deal.
You take this quips.. Big deal.


If you think I've said something that merits you taking me on in a fight.. then take action. If not, shut the **** up. And really, that's all there is to this. No matter how much a what ever you want to be or what ever you are... It's all ones and zero's here.

If your that serious, and that much interested in pushing the fight, then, hey, PM me, email me, and get stepping. Otherwise, why don't you just leave a legitmate thread trying to get a decent question answered.

there is an undeniable relation between promting the bike and bringing down the administration, esp the current administration.

Can you explain the link between CM and this revolution?

Rather a fractured discussion.

PS Although I'm definitely afraid of the stateside "Human Resources" branch of the military, I'm pretty sure I could take you.


:beer: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I've been involved in a lot of protests, logging, nuclear power, globalization and I have noticed an inability by a large contingent on the left to stay on topic. I can't count how many times I've been to a march, for example,against the war in Iraq, and one faction wants to turn it into a pride event, another group wants to smash windows at Starbucks, and another group wants to bring attention to deforestation. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, but isn't the march about Iraq, not Mumia Abu Jamal?


Larry Kramer, in the cover story of this week's Village Voice, makes this pooint as regards ActUp, which was successful in its early years for two reasons...one, its members, already living under a death sentence, were willing to put themselves on the line in protests and two, they kept the focus very, very narrow and did not allow AU to be a hobbyhorse for a full spectrum of progressive or gay issues.

If your that serious, and that much interested in pushing the fight, then, hey, PM me, email me, and get stepping. Otherwise, why don't you just leave a legitmate thread trying to get a decent question answered.

Is there any way we could move this slapfight to the "Internet Tough Guys" section of the site?

Is there any way we could move this slapfight to the "Internet Tough Guys" section of the site?

Sure, but would you be referee and would you wear the silly stripe shirt that they wear? And since it's a bike forum, I'm sure Krispisonsomeone and I would be jousting (the truely macho way to settle a fight) on bike (though I might insist that he ride fixed just to level the playing field). With that would you be willing to stand in the middle until we reach maximum velocity and ready terminal point of impact.

I promise not to aim for you.

If you don't like the conversation, step out or use the ignore button, or hey, you could PM the moderators.. it's thier job to decide.

The slapfight is quite wuss. Let's call it done okay?
To all the conservative Bush hugging bike riders out there, start your own Critical Mass. Park your SUV's and take your bikes off the racks and pretend to love the outdoors and ride, I will ride with you. CM is about what ever you want it to be. The CM book, (which is not a manual) discusses the Xeroxcracy that is CM. Come state your opinions, but this is a ride for bike use and safety in numbers. Once a month for a few hours, you control the streets where you live and are taxed for. I may not embrace talking to any of you, and most likely don't agree with you. But for the few hours that we have pushed the entitled, Bush-tax exempted, polluting, threatening and needlessly driven Saudi powered LAY-Z-BOYs off the street, I will have fun and ride my bike.

If you don't like the conversation, step out or use the ignore button, or hey, you could PM the moderators.. it's thier job to decide.

I was enjoying the conversation until the slapfighting started. There are plenty of sites where you can caterwaul at each other and sling personal invective, and if your dispute is over a specific thing that happened in the politics section, you should take it back there.

And in the interest of getting back on topic, my opinion is this: No, CM is not a statement on this war, or on war generally. While there is signifigant anti-war sentiment among most riders I know & have met at CM, I don't think any of them ride CM as an anti-war statement. August 04 in NYC is a regrettable exception to that rule, but I think that at that ride, locals were outnumbered by protestors from out of town at a factor of 4:1. But most months, there's no more or less discussion of the war, or the president, or any politics beyound our a$$hole mayor than there is at my office on any given day. There's a war on, and people talk about it, but that doesn't mean that everything they do while talking about it is a statement about the war.

Sure, but would you be referee and would you wear the silly stripe shirt that they wear? And since it's a bike forum, I'm sure Krispisonsomeone and I would be jousting (the truely macho way to settle a fight) on bike (though I might insist that he ride fixed just to level the playing field). With that would you be willing to stand in the middle until we reach maximum velocity and ready terminal point of impact.

I promise not to aim for you.


And this whole part of your post is a lot of blustering macho BS. Minor Threat had a song that would be à propos here...

Man, I thought this thread would be about CM.

It's okay, everybody, the ghost of Henry Rollins posessed my typin' fangers yesterday. But we're friends now! so back on topic:
I've noticed a lot of cities that run a tight CM get a lot more out of it, than the flag burning "Mardis Gras" style CM's in other cities. But, shoot, cities that don't have any activism to speak of seem to be even worse off, as far as cycling( but really everything else, too,) goes. I know a lot of people disagree with this,( or there wouldn't be a million CM threads,) but a "bad" CM is better than no CM.

It's okay, everybody, the ghost of Henry Rollins posessed my typin' fangers yesterday.


is henry rollins dead?

is henry rollins dead?
I certainly hope so.

is henry rollins dead?


i hope not

Good, you've cancelled each other out;). Guess he's in limbo....

In my opinion CM is whatever you make of it. If you want to ride your bike against the president (and clearly many do) then that's what CM is about. If you want to ride for the environment, then that's what CM is about. It's not organized by anyone in particular so how could it really be about anything in particular?

From the beginning, CM has NOT been just about the bike. CM is the use of bikes to exercise the First Amendment, to advance or protest various causes. No different than a parade, a foot march, or the Inaguration walk by Jimmy Carter. Replace walking with bicycling.

If you want to use the bike at the Inauguration to support or protest the Prez, why not? If you want to use the bike to support or protest China's occupation of Tibet, why not? Remember, the bicycle was used to end French rule over Indochina. http://www.dienbienphu.org

If everybody is entitled to our roadways, why should anyone have the right to insist on the real meaning of CM? Long live Tibet. Stop the Rwanda genocide....and all that.

PS Although I'm definitely afraid of the stateside "Human Resources" branch of the military, I'm pretty sure I could take you.

Oooh a dick measuring contest!!! You don't see one of these everyday :rolleyes:

Oooh a dick measuring contest!!! You don't see one of these everyday...
What rock have you been living under??? ;)

The slapfight is quite wuss. Let's call it done okay?
To all the conservative Bush hugging bike riders out there, start your own Critical Mass. Park your SUV's and take your bikes off the racks and pretend to love the outdoors and ride, I will ride with you. CM is about what ever you want it to be. The CM book, (which is not a manual) discusses the Xeroxcracy that is CM. Come state your opinions, but this is a ride for bike use and safety in numbers. Once a month for a few hours, you control the streets where you live and are taxed for. I may not embrace talking to any of you, and most likely don't agree with you. But for the few hours that we have pushed the entitled, Bush-tax exempted, polluting, threatening and needlessly driven Saudi powered LAY-Z-BOYs off the street, I will have fun and ride my bike.

In my area of the country, most of those protesting this administration have to park all those vehicles you describe to protest anything, and I live in the area where the first Critical Mass was held.

Ummmm...What? Most people protesting are Vallets? Car parking attendents?

Ummmm...What? Most people protesting are Vallets? Car parking attendents?

More like yesterdays radical is todays conservative.

Ever wonder what happened to all those struggling against the "man" during the 60's? They're piloting the SUV's and ordering the double-latte.

Ever wonder what happened to all those struggling against the "man" during the 60's? They're piloting the SUV's and ordering the double-latte.

The Babyboom elected Dubya!

What happens now, is that people are discluded from Critical Mass because of fringe political people who exploit Critical Mass for other political purposes. I've been getting a lot of emails about people who like the idea of Critical Mass but no longer go because of the many other political groups that try to advance thier causes.

To me, it seems that CM is now poluted by people hijacking it for thier own purposes, due to a lack of thier ability to actually pull off thier own protest/organization.

Pretty sad, really. Because this dilutes one pretty important issue.

Critical Mass is not a pro-bicyclist or even pro-bicycle ride any more; it is an anti-car or anti-establishment parade.

I think it's important to stop and think what the motoring majority is inclined to think of cyclists who demand greater tolerance of their two-wheeled travel mode while at the same time denouncing the most popular travel mode: automobiles. What's worse for one's image - appearing to be part of an extremist minority or appearing to be blatently hypocritical? Anyone who is pro-cyclist but not anti-car or anti-establishment would do better to ride with other cyclists who do not let other agendas pollute a presumably pro-cyclist activity. That's why my own pro-cyclist advoacacy has always centered around equal access and respect for all road users.

I'm still going to ride. I haven't read the book that people are refering to. But from the various web pages, it's about the bike.. it's about not being car centered.... And it's not an "organized protest", it's an "occurance". Perhaps the sites don't reflect what is occuring, the whole.. internet versus reality..

I'm all for free speach and what ever people want to say. And I'm not concerned about riding with people who have these opinions, in fact, it's cool. But there are somethings that I won't be a party to, and somethings I can't be a party to. When they make the specific purpose of CM about something other than the bike, then it seems that things have drifted... and it looses the ability to get it's message across.

Nycmer: you sure work to disclude people with that opinion.

I'm still going to ride. I haven't read the book that people are refering to. But from the various web pages, it's about the bike.. it's about not being car centered.... And it's not an "organized protest", it's an "occurance". Perhaps the sites don't reflect what is occuring, the whole.. internet versus reality..

I'm all for free speach and what ever people want to say. And I'm not concerned about riding with people who have these opinions, in fact, it's cool. But there are somethings that I won't be a party to, and somethings I can't be a party to. When they make the specific purpose of CM about something other than the bike, then it seems that things have drifted... and it looses the ability to get it's message across.

Nycmer: you sure work to disclude people with that opinion. That sort of generalization is what drives people away from saying what they think. Sadly you speak louder, rather than for, what I believe a lot of people want to say.

No one took me up on my Conservative Crit Mass. Not sure why, I do think I was heavy handed with my car flogging and gas pump-hugging indictment of rightwingers. I think that you should ride Bill Kars, I was inviting and encouraging people who do not believe in the same values as me, to ride with me. Albeit I did so with an attitude and was obnoxious about it. Your last post was kind of confusing, I am not really sure what you were saying, but I may have the idea. A parade of bikes knowingly using all the roadway is a form of protest, you are saying something, and since it happens to use bikes, they are in a sense the medium. The ride is about bikes, about cycling issues, within the world we face today and the hurdles that are attached to the issues. Cars are a big part of NYC; 75 percent of nyc households DO NOT own them, yet 50 or 60 percent of city space is devoted to cars, parking, roads,etc. So that is an issue that effects cyclists, we are fighting for limited space with a device that is not necessary for locomotion. I believe this is still on topic to say: look at the two cities attacked on the 11th, solidly blue. I wish that never happened, but it did, I wish every American could have been in NYC on the 12th. The energy in this town could over come anything and we pretty much did. That was one horrible yet amazing time in history, and it was not one fueled by retribution or calling for violence. Now in the name of that horrendous day we have a trumped up, horrific war, a war that is really about oil supply, oil that powers these vehicles that don't need to drive here, certainly not as aggresively as they are driven. I think that is fact, maybe my opinion has clouded my sensibilities.
In your middle paragraph you say "when THEY make the specific purpose of CM..." Who is THEY? Have you really read those sites? There are always the fringe people making their case; have you ever been to an anti-war march? There is always someone with a communist newpaper for free there. Or that nasty anti abortion bus with their gastly photos? There is no "They" at CM. It is you, me and us. Lets go ride.
Lasty, respectfully, I dont think 'disclude' even a word, my friend. But I wasn't looking to disuade or not include anyone with my opinion. That is why we are all on this fantastic site isn't it? For the statement of our opinions? I am going out of the country tonight so I can't respond further. (I have certainly blabbed too much already) but I am interested in how you take what I have said. Again, Let's go ride.

Disclude isn't a word, but you get the point.. right?

Are you suggesting I don't ride? I can show mileage that I do.

William, just stop already.

William, just stop already.

What ever. Who the @#$@# are you anyway?