Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Ride Report: Too Big for my Britches!

Well, it was about time I got grounded in true reality. Yes I have come pretty darn far from when I started in July last year. I have gotten better at miles, average speeds on the flats, better at hills, and lost a little weight. Commute to work now 3-4 times a week on my mountain bike commuter, thinking of squeezing in a short tour this year and ride a few more organized rides.

So with that said, I decided to fit my big head through the door this morning and make it to a group ride with BCP. Cold and wind didnt stop me. Dont really care about those things.

I have been eyeing this ride for about two or three months now:

"Sun February 26, 2012 - Valley Forge Winter Ride - Sunday Edition.
Level B, 14 mph, 35 miles. Meet at Valley Forge National Park - Betzwood Picnic Area (by bathrooms). The ride leaves at 9:00 am. Every Sunday thru March for a ride from Valley Forge to Harleysville. Indoor coffee break at the Hennings Market in Harleysville. Plan is to be back in VF by noon.
Leader: (personal information removed by moderator)

Dont know Richard at all. Talked with him a few times. I was thinking I could do 35 miles and perhaps keep an average of 14 mph. I know he gives cue sheets so that was good for me just in case. I have not been out to Valley Forge since August and forgot a lot about it.

I know I was in trouble when I was about to the meeting place. All the hills in every direction. Getting a little nervous and having second thoughts but what the heck. Its a nice day out.

Got to the meeting place and met the four other guys who were getting ready. All were skinny, fit, expensive bikes, knew each other well, etc. The ride leader quickly briefed us and said it was going to be some good climbing. I think I crapped my pants a couple of times right then. I told him and the rest that I am slow and not to wait up for me since I had the cue sheet.

Off we went. On the flat we were pushing 19-22 mph and that was tough for me to keep up. The first hill and the rest after that I could hardly see them. Richard, the ride leader hung back and waited for me but I could not keep the average at all so I told him to go on. We lost someone a few miles back. He turned around because his hands were freezing (it was cold and windy). Luckily I had the cue sheet to get back.

I learned a few things:

1- Yes I have gotten better
2- I still suck
3- I need to work on hills more.
4- Please read number 3
5- Please read number 2 and then 3 and then 4.

It was a great reality check for many reasons. I walked away feeling defeated but as I was sitting in my truck, I thought about what I learned and I came away with a few things to continue to work on.

Also realized that perhaps I will never fit into the main stream club style cycling groups. I have been "fighting" this feeling for a while. As I have talked with many of my friends who I have cycled with since I started, the always saw that group rides are ok but smaller friend and solo rides are better. I never understood those comments until today. Don't misunderstand me. Today was not a negative day and I am not being negative, I am being realistic and it was a gut check for me. Sometimes knowing how far you have come and what you have to work on is the byproduct of challenge which might result in failure. I couldn't keep up but thats ok. I learned a lot.

Thanks for listening!

Also realized that perhaps I will never fit into the main stream club style cycling groups. I have been "fighting" this feeling for a while. As I have talked with many of my friends who I have cycled with since I started, the always saw that group rides are ok but smaller friend and solo rides are better. I never understood those comments until today.


I joined BCP when I started riding. This week, I got an email from them asking why I hadn't renewed my membership. I wrote back that part of the problem that in ANY group ride, the rider who is the last up the hill gets the least rest at the top. Right now, I'm a "D" pace rider but I have done "A" level distance on the flats -- and that's a hard combo for the rest of the world to accomodate.

Putting the "d" in randonneur...

I am pretty sure today ended my "need and want" to ride with a group in a club ride.

I've had some nice rides with clydes I work with. Clear deal from the start, very, very easy going uphill. I admire these guys a lot and if we should go out riding hard uphill together I should carry 75 pounds on my bike to equal things out. It is amazing the way cycling can be a way for heavy folks to get a long fatburning workout. Kudos to all of you !

IME, group rides are at their best only when all the participants are of roughly equal ability. And if they're friends to boot, so much the better. Those can be extremely gratifying experiences. That's not to say group rides that don't meet those criteria are bad times. Just don't expect much out of them other than a brief moment or two of camaraderie.

In this case, the labeling of the ride as a "B" flight outing should have been pretty telling. The average speed listed was obviously a result of the hilly nature of the ride, and wasn't really indicative of the effort expended.

I forgot how many hills were in Valley Forge. :(

IME, group rides are at their best only when all the participants are of roughly equal ability. And if they're friends to boot, so much the better. Those can be extremely gratifying experiences. That's not to say group rides that don't meet those criteria are bad times. Just don't expect much out of them other than a brief moment or two of camaraderie.


Very true. I had avoided joining group rides because I had a fear of not being able to keep up. However I joined a group and completed my third ride with them yesterday. I have throughly enjoyed all three rides and look forward to many more.

The group rides at a moderate pace without too many hills and has a no drop policy. It's made up of people in their 50's, 60's, and 70's. Some are thin and some, such as me, are clydes.

My only regret is that I didn't join them earlier. You just need to find the proper group for you skill level and you'll enjoy it.

I forgot how many hills were in Valley Forge. :(

Well, since it's probably only your second visit.....

I know. As soon as I saw it I thought about you and when you took me there. That was freaking cool.

Sometimes a reality check can be a good thing - it doesn't have to be a soul crushing experience even if it does feel like it at the time.

I recently attempted the ride I'd been planning for a time, to go visit my dad. He lives about 80 miles from here - the shortest route by car is about 75 miles but the route we normally take is more like 85 (it adds distance but saves time, as it uses fast roads rather than going through town). The best route I could come up with that was suitable to cycle was a little over 80 miles. I spent a long time looking at the route, checking the roads weren't going to be too fast or too tiny (it goes through a lot of places where a lane might be a muddy track) until I was happy the route was as good as I could plan and the only way to find out if it really worked was to ride it.

So a week ago I rode it. I'd covered 80 miles in a day a few times before on a mountain bike so figured on the tricross it shouldn't be too hard. And it wasn't, at least not for the first 50 miles or so. Then came the rolling hills, and for good measure because I wanted to see how fast I could cover it I hadn't taken enough time earlier in the ride to rest and rehydrate. So as I got into the section with the hills, so my body started to tell me with ever-increasing urgency that it really did need more rest and more electrolytes. At one point I had cramp in both quads on a hill in the middle of nowhere and ended up literally on my knees at the roadside trying to stretch the muscles out.

I completed the ride but the last 20 miles were at a significantly slower pace than the rest of the ride, not least because every once in a while I had to get off and walk to work through the cramps. I abandoned the original plan to ride back home - my wife had driven down so I put the bike in the back of the car and drove us home instead.

At the time I felt like I needed a major reassessment of my abilities. And to an extent that's exactly what I needed, having done a few long rides in the past I'd gotten a bit ahead of myself and forgotten that even though I can cover the distance I still need to stop and take on water and electrolytes, and to keep hydrated as a proactive measure rather than gulping water once I've started to dehydrate.

As a learning process it's better than any amount of reading text books. It gave me an idea of what I can do, where my limits are, and what I need to do next time to make sure I don't run up against those limits in the same way. So next time I do the ride (and there will certainly be a next time) I won't be going at it as a total unknown. So hopefully I'll improve my time and complete it without feeling like I want to curl up and die at the end of it.

So while in your post you mention your points 2, 3 and 4, don't forget to also look at point 1. You've gotten better. There's usually scope to improve further (at least there will be until we see you in the yellow jersey in Paris one year), but as you look to where you want to be don't forget to look back every once in a while to see how far you've come.

I joined BCP when I started riding. This week, I got an email from them asking why I hadn't renewed my membership. I wrote back that part of the problem that in ANY group ride, the rider who is the last up the hill gets the least rest at the top. Right now, I'm a "D" pace rider but I have done "A" level distance on the flats -- and that's a hard combo for the rest of the world to accomodate.

Putting the "d" in randonneur...

BCP started as a group for touring cyclists, believe it or not. They've gone a long way toward roadie since then.

Did you complete the ride?

It reads to me like you joined a ride that was a class above you, and the expected happened. Most clubs, including BCP, recommend you ride a class below what you think you are capable of until you know the ride. That would mean riding a class C ride, not class B. The Delaware rides you have been doing are on flat terrain, not the washboard stuff of Montgomery County.

BTW, I'm only a dozen miles from Valley Forge. Why didn't you invite me to lunch afterward? :-)

+1 - edit your post and delete Rich's contact info.

And 2... there's always somebody better, faster, skinnier, better bike etc. the corollary to that is that there is usually somebody out there who's ... etc.

And +3 - find a group that's near your skills / abilities and you'll have a great time. of course, that's not to say they won't kick your butt some days but other days you'll kick their butts and it's rewarding when that happens.

I have done D rides and C rides but agreed... most are on the flats with some hills. I have been working on my climbing with hill repeats as well. But at the end of the day, I was over my head.

At the 15 miler marker I was out. Could not finish. But thats ok, I have gotten better.

Thanks Mods for removing the info. Just about to do that.

Like I said, the realization was not negative, it was a gut check on where I need to improve. I have improved a lot. But my error was thinking I could handle the average speed on the climbing combined. No big deal, just a gut check.

OP, if you've just been on the bike a year you can still look forward to making pretty darned good improvements.
I'm 3-1/2 years back on the bike and still getting stronger. Progress is not a straight linear progression and you may stall or even get slower.
Remember that your body gets great fitness benefits even if you're not riding as strongly as you would prefer.

I don't know how "hilly" your rides are, it's all relative to your local terrain. Any idea how many feet of vertical climbing on your route? What grade were the steepest climbs?
If you are having trouble keeping up on the flats you're probably not going to keep up with that group unless you're strong on hills and they are flatlanders.

I have ridden many many miles in that situation. The ride goes best when you look at it as a game of chase. It can be great training. Hills make us strong.

I have outridden skinny younger fit-looking riders with expensive bikes. (enjoyable and amazing to me)
And I am regularly outridden by fatter older couch-potato wannabes on crappy bikes. (sigh)

You may be slow on the hills. You may never be a great climber. But you can improve.
You may also surprise yourself. We never know what we are capable of unless we persist.

Amaze yourself.

I have done D rides and C rides but agreed... most are on the flats with some hills. I have been working on my climbing with hill repeats as well. But at the end of the day, I was over my head.

At the 15 miler marker I was out. Could not finish. But thats ok, I have gotten better.

Still didn't call me for lunch. :-)

I joined BCP when I started riding. This week, I got an email from them asking why I hadn't renewed my membership. I wrote back that part of the problem that in ANY group ride, the rider who is the last up the hill gets the least rest at the top. Right now, I'm a "D" pace rider but I have done "A" level distance on the flats -- and that's a hard combo for the rest of the world to accomodate.

Putting the "d" in randonneur...

Exactly where I am.

Off we went. On the flat we were pushing 19-22 mph and that was tough for me to keep up.

I learned a few things:

1- Yes I have gotten better
2- I still suck
3- I need to work on hills more.
4- Please read number 3
5- Please read number 2 and then 3 and then 4.
I think you are being pretty hard on yourself.

19-22 mph on the flats is a fast pace and you had no experience riding the route which the group surely had ridden a few times before. No question you would be at a disadvantage so don't beat yourself up over it. Clearly you have improved both your fitness and yourself all of which is great stuff. :thumb:

I dont think I was hard on myself but just a reality check. I give myself a lot of credit for where I am and credit for showing up and trying but at the end of the day, it is where I stand. I can sugar coat it but that gets me no where. I see where I am at and I will continue to get better.

Neil: I should have. New phone and no old numbers in there. PM your number and I will put it in my phone. I would have loved to do lunch. Could have used a pick me up.

As a learning process it's better than any amount of reading text books. It gave me an idea of what I can do, where my limits are, and what I need to do next time to make sure I don't run up against those limits in the same way. So next time I do the ride (and there will certainly be a next time) I won't be going at it as a total unknown. So hopefully I'll improve my time and complete it without feeling like I want to curl up and die at the end of it.

So while in your post you mention your points 2, 3 and 4, don't forget to also look at point 1. You've gotten better. There's usually scope to improve further (at least there will be until we see you in the yellow jersey in Paris one year), but as you look to where you want to be don't forget to look back every once in a while to see how far you've come.

well said!

Neil: I should have. New phone and no old numbers in there. PM your number and I will put it in my phone. I would have loved to do lunch. Could have used a pick me up.

I will if you promise me you won't post it to a thread on Bike Forums. :lol:

lol. I promise.

I am pretty sure today ended my "need and want" to ride with a group in a club ride.

Asssuming it's o.k. with the leader, there's nothing wrong with showing up on a group ride and riding your own pace. I lead a few BCP B/B- rides every year. I always have accurate cue sheets with mileages for turns. Most of my cue sheets also include leg mileages. Absent special circumstances, my ride descriptions always welcome people to ride at their own pace. Of course, they are on their own if they are off the front or back. My routes are scenic and usually involve a good amount of climbing. Going beyond your limit is a good way to extend that limit. So, if it's o.k. with the leader, forget trying to keep up and just ride the route at your own pace. Or bring a pal who is at the same level if you would like company. Numerous times I have had people contact me before a ride and ask if they can do this. Another option is to ask the leader for a copy of the cue sheet so you can do the ride on your own some day. No reason to pass on a nice route because you are concerned about not being able to keep up with everyone else.

I will probably be leading a BCP ride on the Saturday before Memorial Day called "Sex on the Beach." 75 miles in Cumberland County, NJ. Nice, low traffic and mostly flat route that inlcludes a sit down lunch stop. You are welcome to come and ride it at your own pace. There may also be a C group that does a shorter version.

BTW...For those following this thread, Rich, who I know very well, is a very strong Clyde.

Asssuming it's o.k. with the leader, there's nothing wrong with showing up on a group ride and riding your own pace. I lead a few BCP B/B- rides every year. I always have accurate cue sheets with mileages for turns. Most of my cue sheets also include leg mileages. Absent special circumstances, my ride descriptions always welcome people to ride at their own pace. Of course, they are on their own if they are off the front or back. My routes are scenic and usually involve a good amount of climbing. Going beyond your limit is a good way to extend that limit. So, if it's o.k. with the leader, forget trying to keep up and just ride the route at your own pace. Or bring a pal who is at the same level if you would like company. Numerous times I have had people contact me before a ride and ask if they can do this. Another option is to ask the leader for a copy of the cue sheet so you can do the ride on your own some day. No reason to pass on a nice route because you are concerned about not being able to keep up with everyone else.

I will probably be leading a BCP ride on the Saturday before Memorial Day called "Sex on the Beach." 75 miles in Cumberland County, NJ. Nice, low traffic and mostly flat route that inlcludes a sit down lunch stop. You are welcome to come and ride it at your own pace. There may also be a C group that does a shorter version.

BTW...For those following this thread, Rich, who I know very well, is a very strong Clyde.

Hmm.... the "Sex on the Beach" ride is to observe the mating of the horseshoe crab, isn't it?

chefissac, You have to realize also that most rides will go as expected. Some go worse and some go better, just depends on which 'engine' you awoke with as far as I can tell.

Brad

Hmm.... the "Sex on the Beach" ride is to observe the mating of the horseshoe crab, isn't it?

Yep, although I cannot guarantee one will catch crabs on the ride. We also take a brief loop through Mauricetown (pronounced Morristown), which is the site of some old sea captain's houses.

Indy: I would agree, Rich is strong and a real nice guy. I shot him an ice email after the ride, thanking him. *Most* of the ride leaders are nice people.

The ride you mentioned might be great for me. Can you shoot me the cue sheet if you have it? clydesdalecyclist@gmail.com

thanks!

Like I said, the realization was not negative, it was a gut check on where I need to improve. I have improved a lot. But my error was thinking I could handle the average speed on the climbing combined. No big deal, just a gut check.

So when you do accomplish this ride it will be that much sweeter ;)

Don't forget #1

Yep, although I cannot guarantee one will catch crabs on the ride. We also take a brief loop through Mauricetown (pronounced Morristown), which is the site of some old sea captain's houses.

BTW, since Iron Chef probably has never seen a horseshoe crab:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Horseshoe_crab_female.jpg/220px-Horseshoe_crab_female.jpg

It's a bait species, and the Delaware Bay is the prime breeding ground for these creatures.

BTW, since Iron Chef probably has never seen a horseshoe crab:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Horseshoe_crab_female.jpg/220px-Horseshoe_crab_female.jpg

It's a bait species, and the Delaware Bay is the prime breeding ground for these creatures.

burn it with fire ?

interesting.....

I've stayed away from group rides as well. I found that the ride catagory and the pace are very different .My experience was not with BCP. A C ride should be a C ride . The time I went out we were at a steady 16 mph out of the gate. I also stayed back at the top of the hills which the ride leader didn't. At the end of the ride another rider and myself waited for a rider at a turn and the group left us. All three of us found our way back to the start.

burn it with fire ?

No. They are also used in medicine. In fact, just about everyone has benefited from horseshoe crab blood:

http://www.horseshoecrab.org/med/med.html


Their eggs are also rich in fat and sustain migrating birds like the red knot, which feed on the eggs laid in the sand. Red knot numbers have declined along with the number of mating crabs, although I am not sure if a direct causal link.

interesting.....

Horseshoe crabs doin' the nasty:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Horseshoe_crab_mating.jpg/800px-Horseshoe_crab_mating.jpg

@ neil ... ok that is a interesting pic to see starting my work day.

they don't look like crabs

this is a knife... i mean crab
http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj586/tergal/blue-mud-crab1.jpg

http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj586/tergal/mud-crab-showing-eyes-claws-mouth-live.jpg

that is a crab.... and so OT :lol:

@ neil ... ok that is a interesting pic to see starting my work day.

they don't look like crabs


Agreed. They closely resemble the extinct trilobites, which makes the horseshoe crab a 'living fossil.' Much like many of the distinctive creatures of the Australian continent.... platypus, spiny anteater, koala, and perhaps the kangaroo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_crab

Hey Chef,

I had the same thing happen to me 20+ years ago.

Here is a thought. Lead a ride. You sound like a strong rider and will be able to do it. You could even duplicate the same route as the B riders. Ride the route a few times first, so you know your avg speed. You can post it at an accurate speed whether it is C C+ or B-. At the very least, you will be practicing the route with the hills. As a bonus, you'll probably end up with a few new riding partners too.

I would contact the lead rider on the B ride and just make sure he is fine with it. Some people are possessive of thing they don't own, like their bike routes. Contact him for tips and it is a nice way ask him if he minds you duplicating his route.

Most clubs have way too many A & B rides and not enough C & D rides. Ironically most new members in cycling clubs are D & C riders. They would benefit from group rides.

Thanks for sharing the post.

FYI I hate Horseshoe Crabs.....fugly ugly creatures. They were all over the beaches where I grew up.....yuk!

Chef, I admire you just for the fact that you jumped in and gave it a shot. I started riding a bit over three years ago and, this morning, rode with other people for the first time ever. I've been off the bike since November due to a situation with my back and just got back up last Thursday. Still dealing with the back but hope to get it straightened out pretty soon.

One of the guys I rode with this morning just had an ankle reconstruction last Fall. We're both semi-crippled so I felt that I could hang ok and I did. It was a short (15 miles) ride at an easy pace, though, so I'm not ready to toot my own horn. I still haven't worked up the nerve or desire for a large group ride. There were three of us riding this morning and I really, really, enjoyed it. I think I agree with some of the others that solo riding or riding with friends is the way to go. At least for me.

Anyway, you did something that I'm still uncomfortable even thinking about doing. Kudos to you!

I'm 225 and fairly new to cycling. Our group rides aren't so organized that we have classification. What I do it let everyone know if they drop me I'm used to riding by myself anyway. Because I continue to go (and get dropped) I have gotten better riding with people who are better than me. Don't give up and don't get discouraged - just go. When you are pulling just do it for a few minutes and drop back - there is no shame. I have found enjoyment in those group rides and sometimes they slow up on longer rides because the group is small and they need me. So keep it up!

There is really no need to fear club rides. I had a bad experience with the bike club in my former hometown. Their "recovery" ride turned into a 20+ mph paceline when the fat kid on a hybrid showed up. It sincerely felt like a personal mission to drop me. So you know what? Eff those guys.

When I got out to Harrisburg, I discovered there was a ride leaving from a shopping center near me two nights a week and I decided to give it a try. I read what their grading was geared for and decided to ride with the C group until I got comfortable with the group. It wasn't long till I moved up to C+ but that was as far as I went, despite being capable of riding faster. I liked the dynamics of the C+ group better than the B group, so that's where I choose to ride for now.

My rough grade scale has more to do with perception of effort than average speeds:

A is for those who are fast and dream they could ride the Tour.
B is for those who are fast and KNOW the'll never ride the Tour.
C is for average riders. I think almost anyone who rides regularly could ride in most C groups.
D is for social riders who gab, have coffee or breakfast stops, sightsee, etc.

Using the above explanation, you can see why I choose C+. It is a faster version of the C group, but focuses more on traveling than riding in a paceline. B & A tend to be more about getting there in a hurry. My preferred ride is the "getting there" part without the "lollygagging" part, if you will.

Sayre: I like the classifications you have! I was just thinking hoe effed up the club classifications are until I read your post.

Lenny: That is great advice. I would agree. I do plan to lead more rides this year I think.

No. They are also used in medicine. In fact, just about everyone has benefited from horseshoe crab blood:

http://www.horseshoecrab.org/med/med.html


Their eggs are also rich in fat and sustain migrating birds like the red knot, which feed on the eggs laid in the sand. Red knot numbers have declined along with the number of mating crabs, although I am not sure if a direct causal link.

They're also completely harmless to humans. That long tail isn't like a stingray tail, and they move really slowly. Go ahead and pick one up sometime - just not by the tail. Pick it up by the edges of the shell, with two hands. Flip it over...they look like they could nip you, but fear not. You can put your hands right in among their legs and little tiny pinchers without any harm. My kids play with them all the time at the beach, then carefully put them back and watch them swim along not their way.

They're also completely harmless to humans. That long tail isn't like a stingray tail, and they move really slowly. Go ahead and pick one up sometime - just not by the tail. Pick it up by the edges of the shell, with two hands. Flip it over...they look like they could nip you, but fear not. You can put your hands right in among their legs and little tiny pinchers without any harm. My kids play with them all the time at the beach, then carefully put them back and watch them swim along not their way.

IT must be nice to live in a place where every second thing does not kill or maim you :notamused:

http://www.yesaustralia.com/Curiosidades-animaising.htm

http://www.downunder-dago.com/113/Usefull-information/Australias-Dangerous-Animals.html

stuff like this is why i have taken to the saying "walk softly and carry a big stick"
because you never know when you might need to poke something

want to come visit ? :D


so hijacking chefs thread lol

Edit: even the plants want to kill us
http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/gympie-gympie-once-stung-never-forgotten.htm

For two or three days the pain was almost unbearable; I couldn’t work or sleep, then it was pretty bad pain for another fortnight or so. The stinging persisted for two years and recurred every time I had a cold shower.”

Since the ride was supposed to take three hours, how about you ride out 1.5 hours and then turn around? They will leave you on the first leg and catch up to you the way back in.

I did a google maps route for Valley Forge to Harleysville, it appears that much of the route can be done on paved trails, is that the route you took?

The shop rides I frequent are broken into 3 main groups, A, B & C, with the distribution following a bell curve - a fair number of As and Cs but many, many more Bs, which led the organizers to split the Bs into three subgroups called (from fastest to slowest) Killer Bs, Honey Bs and Bumble Bs. The As are the "racer dudes and dudettes" and the Cs are the "fun and fitness" group. I started last season in the C group and ended in the Bumble Bs. I hope to get at least into the Honey Bs this year.