Classic & Vintage - Threaded steer tube on fork cut too short.. How to fix ??

Ok... So I have a frame that I really like... Someone has cut the steer tube too short... The original headset JUST barely works... I want to put a campy one on but it's too short...

Is there any way to fix this? I don't mind spending $100 if need be... Can a new steer tube be installed on the forks? Is there any way around this?

I'm in Toronto... Any shops around here that could fix this??

Thanks!!

Yes... I'm expecting abou 20 responses saying "buy a new fork because it is cheaper" ... That's not an option I am going to choose as the fork has matching engravings...

Yes, the steerer can be replaced.

you can replace a steerer? really? i was thinking you'd have to resort to a threadless/ threaded quill adapter and get a new threadless headset and stem.

Yes, you should be able to have a new steer tube brazed on. I don't know if they will be able to salvage the paint, or if it will require paint/touch-up. They probably wont be able to get another Columbus tube, but most places should be able to get you something like Dedacciai, which is said to be comparable.

You have two additional choices, if it just barely comes up short:

- you may be able to have the top of the top head tube lug milled, maybe 3-5mm, if you are lucky. Be sure not to mill the tube low enough for the headset to interfere with the top tube. The bearing cups on different headsets stick out more on some brands/models than others.
- you could also have both lugs milled, but it will affect the steering geometry (most likely in an indistinguishable fashion) by steepening the head tube slightly. However, milling both lugs with look more visually balanced and give a slight more space to work with.

I imagine you chop off the old one and weld on a new one. Here is a list, and description of local (to you) shops that might be able to help. A few of them claim to be able to do MOST any bicycle repair, or if they don't, they may know who does.
http://www.blogto.com/toronto/the_best_bike_stores_in_toronto/

I imagine you chop off the old one and weld on a new one. Here is a list, and description of local (to you) shops that might be able to help. A few of them claim to be able to do MOST any bicycle repair, or if they don't, they may know who does.
http://www.blogto.com/toronto/the_best_bike_stores_in_toronto/

Unfortunately I'm not convinced any of these shops will have the know how to do this. I'd still have a look though. I'm not sure if there are any shops with Marinoni connections still around but I'd guess they'd be your best bet. Outside of that you'll probably have to look into a custom frame builder to do the work for you.

Out of interest, what is the frameset and what was the headset that just barely fit. You could try to look for another one with a similar stack.

I imagine you chop off the old one and weld on a new one.

No chopping involved, just heat it up until the silver or whatever was used melts and slide it out.

Assuming it is a fork with a crown and brazed steerer and blades.

Chance it might be pinned as well, but that's beyond my meager knowledge on the subject.

Don't get stubborn on that Campy headset. See what your current stack height is and search for a headset with a lower stack height that will work with the too short steerer.
Every other option will require more money and possibly damage or alterations.
As rat fink stated, you can mill down the head tube. But I'd only do the top if there is room to spare.
Next option braze on a new steerer...fork paint can be kissed bye bye.
Last, buy a new fork.

edit:
Isn't Mariposa located in Ontario. I know he isn't making framesets anymore, but he might do repairs. Being one of North America's top builders, he'll definitely have the skills to do a fork.

Thats tough
Are you sure it was cut short, if it was originally fitted how can it now be too short unless some one took it off and cut it.
So if it won't fit with the headset you want ,like 5cagm said find out what was on and use that.
Are you sure you are using the correct bearings.
Do you know the history of the bike?
Will you trust a new steerer tube?

I'd buy a low stack height Tange, like 31mm, and be done with it.

most threaded headsets that i am familiar with have a keyed washer that facilitates locknut tightening. i've have had success, on occasion, in tightening some of them without the keyed washer, which would give you an extra mm or two of threads. and as someone has mentioned threaded headsets come in various stack heights, sometimes varying as much as 10mm or so... maybe even campy ones!

i have noticed too, that crown races, many of which are interchangeable in my experience, come in various heights, possibly saving another mm or two. you might even be able to have the crown on the fork (where the crown race sits) milled down a bit?

Will you trust a new steerer tube?

yes, more than an old one if given the option. Any frame builder worth half a crap should be able to replace a steer tube, no problem.

How close is the Campy headset to fitting? If it is close, you may be able to get where you need to be with a heavy facing of the head tube (maybe this is the same as what ratfink describes about by milling). I was in a similr situation a few months ago. When I replaced a vintage 105 headset (very low stack height) with a DA 7400 headset, there were only a couple threads showing for the top lockring. After I had the LBS face the head tube, the new cups sat more flush and combined with the facing, I had enough exposed threads to install the new taller headset. I told the LBS to do a heavy facing i they needed to, but they said it just required a normal facing. If you only need a couple millimeters, that might be worth trying before replacing the steerer tube.

+1 for looking at the headset first for your answer.

You don't want to find someone to mill your frame or braze in a new steer tube.

Just get a Chris King headset or something that'll fit. Or have someone machine down that Campy headset a bit.

How close is the Campy headset to fitting? If it is close, you may be able to get where you need to be with a heavy facing of the head tube (maybe this is the same as what ratfink describes about by milling). I was in a similr situation a few months ago. When I replaced a vintage 105 headset (very low stack height) with a DA 7400 headset, there were only a couple threads showing for the top lockring. After I had the LBS face the head tube, the new cups sat more flush and combined with the facing, I had enough exposed threads to install the new taller headset. I told the LBS to do a heavy facing i they needed to, but they said it just required a normal facing. If you only need a couple millimeters, that might be worth trying before replacing the steerer tube.

Yeah, basically. When I looked into it a while back, I got conflicting reports as to whether or not standard facing tools were sufficient for removing ~3mm a lug, but a lot of shops around here tend to have a sort of timid approach to projects like this. In fact, most I've talked to wont even cold set frames. What kind of thing is that?

Thanks for all the replies!!

It is at Sporting Life now... the manger of the repair department is very knowledgeable... I brought him several headsets (I have three different campy ones and a Dura Ace 7400 one)... he is going to try all of them and see...

If none of them work I will suggest facing the tube like suggested above to gain a couple more mm... I'm not 100% dead set on the campy headset... The original one isn't that bad... BUT if it's only like $100 to braze in a new steer tube then I'd like to have that done... I will ask him if he knows of any places that can do that... I will ask around at the bike show this weekend to see if anybody knows of a good frame builder as it's a pretty simple fix...

The frame is not AMAZING or anything like that, I just really like it because it is REALLY Nice and was actually made in Mississauga Ontario about 15 minutes from my house (back in the 80's)

It is Columbus SL and I really don't care what material they replace the steer tube with...

Here's the frame for reference:

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j473/shutter-for-hire/84041eb2.jpg
.
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j473/shutter-for-hire/570576d0.jpg

That's a sweet bike.

One other trick is that you can mix a headset to reduce its stack height. So, you could keep the top of a Campy headset but have a short-stack lower unit from some other manufacturer.

I guess a little facing is a good solution, too. I mean, you're supposed to do it in the first place, and most frames have never had it done.

But brazing is going to mean repainting that fork, as someone else mentioned. Properly rebrazing a steer tube, repainting a fork, and cutting the steer tube to the right length for $100 would be a tremendous bargain.

That's a sweet bike.

One other trick is that you can mix a headset to reduce its stack height. So, you could keep the top of a Campy headset but have a short-stack lower unit from some other manufacturer.

I guess a little facing is a good solution, too. I mean, you're supposed to do it in the first place, and most frames have never had it done.

But brazing is going to mean repainting that fork, as someone else mentioned. Properly rebrazing a steer tube, repainting a fork, and cutting the steer tube to the right length for $100 would be a tremendous bargain.

Thanks!

Well, I can easily repaint the fork myself (I have re-painted many frames), in terms of the steer tube $100 is pretty low still... it will probably be more... some places will do things like this for cheaper because they are nice and like working on Real bikes like this ... but yea... even if it's $150 to replace it then I'm cool with that... I only paid $200 for the frame and it's worth about $300-$400 here in the Toronto bike market so I don't mind dumping another $150 into it to fix it up...

For now though if he can't get the Dura Ace headset to work (which is pretty low profile with the sealed bearings) then I will just get him to try refacing the tube... if that doesn't work then I will just have him put the original headset back in... as you can see in the pic it's not that bad looking... BUT I will keep my ears open and look for a builder who can replace the steer tube...

...Or have someone machine down that Campy headset a bit.

Out of curiosity, how does someone "machine down [a] headset"? What part of a headset would you alter, safely?

Do not replace the steerer tube. That will be expensive, and getting it straight is not guaranteed.

Some good tips you've gotten already:
- use a headset with shorter stack
- eliminate the lockwasher

You could also mill down the head tube to make it shorter, depending on how far off you are.

And don't be so stuck on a Campy headset. They're not amazingly great that you have to make huge sacrifices to put one in. But don't worry: you will be able to use this fork.

There may be one other solution, which I can't vouch for personally, but was suggested to me by local, well-respected builder, Bernie Mikkelsen. When I was exploring options for the above-mentioned bike (aluminum fork/steel steerer), I called Mikkelsen Frames and spoke with Bernie. He mentioned that rather than replace the entire steerer, he could add an extension. I've never heard of this anywhere else. If I understood him correctly, he said he could cut the steerer in the middle and then weld an extension to the steerer. He quoted around ~$75, IIRC. This was my fall-back plan before I got the DA headset to work. If you need to take off more from the head tube than can reasonably be faced/milled, this might save the trouble of repainting the fork.

+1 for looking at the headset first for your answer.

You don't want to find someone to mill your frame or braze in a new steer tube.

Just get a Chris King headset or something that'll fit. Or have someone machine down that Campy headset a bit.

Milling the frame is a much safer process, and it's been done many times. The headset is hardened steel, and it would be difficult to mill it down, at best. You could damage it instead. Or you could damage the milling tool.

you may be able to get where you need to be with a heavy facing of the head tube

+1. Couple of mm's off the top, couple off the bottom and you may have enough room. I used to do this all the time back in my shop days. If your local shop has a crown race cutter you can take a few mm's off the crown as well.

2+2+2 = 6 mm's

Personaly, I'd use a lower profile headset.

ok... I just called and spoke with the mechanic... he said that he didn't think that there was enough material on the frame to gain anything by facing (he said he would have suggested it himself originally if there was anything to be gained)

He is going to experiment more with it tomorrow and get back to me... I will post any updates... he said that the old headset was JUST barely on by a couple threads...

The best route would probably be to have the tube cut and have material added to it...

But we'll see...

Find your current headset's stack height from a list of specs like Sutherlands. Then find an alternative with a shorter stack height. Campagnolos are fairly large, there are smaller ones.

I once had a similar problem on a fillet brazed frame. I put a metal blade on my table saw, stood the headtube up in the crosscut guage and sliced a 1/16" off the top and bottom of the headtube. Worked fine. But I doubt you could do that with lugs...

The extension method mentioned would probably work, but it's sure frowned upon in the motorcycle world.

Out of curiosity, how does someone "machine down [a] headset"? What part of a headset would you alter, safely?
Locknut, washer, even the top of the threaded cup. You can gain about 3mm with all three.

Milling the frame is a much safer process, and it's been done many times. The headset is hardened steel, and it would be difficult to mill it down, at best. You could damage it instead. Or you could damage the milling tool.
Maybe his headset is aluminum alloy?

Replacing the fork or steer tube is a last resort. The best solution is finding a headset that works with what you have now. As mentioned above, some Tange models have very low stack height, and if you're stuck on Campy their Pista headsets are considerably shorter than their road headsets. You can leave out the keyed washer and get another millimeter, too.

Looking at the frame, there appears to be quite a bit that could be gained by milling it. Were it me, I'd replace the fork. But, if I were set on using the fork, I'd use a 90 degree crowning tool and take the frame down a bit. Between that and a lower profile headset, you should be able to make it work.

So I was given a tip in the frame builders forum to contact a couple places... I emailed both. Velocolour is in toronto and actually quotes $100 to replace the steer tube on their website!!


http://www.velocolour.com/frame-repair09.html (http://www.velocolour.com/frame-repair09.html)