Road Cycling - Steel Road Bikes

I am starting to gather information (read: dream) for a new road bike--for serious training, possibly some racing in a year or two. I want to give serious consideration to steel. But, I am not able to find many steel bikes. I have seen LeMond's 853 bikes--but they have almost no distribution in Europe (and I am not sure that the geometry would be right for me).

So, who's making good steel road bikes? (We're talking the $1200-2000 category, but I'm open to all suggestions.)

Second, I have read a lot about Reynolds 853. It seems like great stuff. How does it stack up on the perennial "stiffness vs. long-ride comfort" question?

Are there other steel tubes (Columbus?) which compare to the 853?

Cheers,
Jamie

Steel is actually enjoying something of a renaissance, and there are a whole lot of manufacturers of top-quality steel bikes out there. Since you're in Europe, I'd suggest you look at one of the Italian manufacturers, though it might be hard to find one in exactly that price range. A Colnago classic with Campagnolo Centaur probably goes for about US$1800, though.

As for different kinds of steel, Reynolds 853 is very fine stuff, but there are some Italian steel tubesets that are just as good -- some say better. Columbus Foco and Ultra Foco, even Zona, are in the same league, and there are some pretty good steels from Dedacciai. The bottom line is that, steel from reynolds, Columbus and Dedacciai will all be great stuff.

steel is a great material for a bike, yes. you do have to be careful though. the lemond that advertises 853 is not 853 throughout the entire frame. the bottom bracket area is another type of steel. i was shocked when i looked. 853 is a standard. I have a Steelman SR525 (525 used instead of 853) - the frame is 4 ounces more than the 853 one they make. Steelman is the same steel throughout the entire frame. www.steelmancycles.com is their website. the owner is Gary Steelman (yes, that's his name) makes beautiful bikes that are reasonable in cost. you can pick from many colors and options (not an upcost) - i ordered through my LBS (the mechanic rode one, so i was able to ride it) -and the guy e-mails you back the next day if you have questions. the service was great. the site explains steel and materials, etc. shopping is fun.

I ride a LeMond Zurich, the 853 w/ Ultegra gruppo. I picked this over a couple Cannondales and a Kestrel I test rode! I've had the bike for about 6 months now and don't have any complaints. The ride is smooth, yet there is no flex under heavy sprinting. As far as the geometry. I prefer the slightly longer top-tube. I'm not expert, but I did prefer the ride of the steel vs. aluminum or carbon.

Good Luck
L8R

This is my Bike:

I have always ridden steel frames and feel no desire to change, although one can find several examples of high-quality frames for any given common material.

There are many who will argue that bike "feel" is much more related to tires and how the frame is constructed than to the material used. These include some well qualified folks, who can cite double blind studies that when the rider does not know the material, and everything else is equal, the rider can not tell the difference.

I know this opens a can of worms, and many may disagree.

In any event, I have Lemond Buenos Aires, which I love dearly.

Thanks all for the info--and I look forward to more from others!

Re a2psyklnut's comment about the LeMond: although I like its relaxed angles, it is exactly the long top-tube that won't work for me. My current bike is a size too big for me (55), and the top tube is 54 cm. Even the LeMond size 51 has a top tube that is like 53.3 (if memory serves). That's too long for me, I think.

Keep the suggestions coming...

Cheers!

Bianchi makes some nice steel bikes.

I've seen some people around here [Montreal] riding Steelmans and Sachs's, and they LOOK like really sweet bikes. I wonder if there would be much avaulability in Europe, though and that, after all, is going to have a bearing on Jamie's dream

I do think Italian is the way to go. I'm sure Colnago, Pinarello, De Rosa and others have steel bikes in Jamie's price range. I syuspect he'd be looking at the 105-Centaur price level, so I would suggest going with Campy at that price range.

If budget is a majot concern, there are some pretty affordable brands like Mercier (http://www.cyclesmercier.com/), which has some nice offerings -- the Draco is reynolds 853 and full Dura Ace for US$2,100, and the Serpens is Ultegra for US$1,700. I don't know much about the brand except that is used to be a much-storied marque [Hinault rode Mercier] and I've seen a couple around that looked nice.

Fuji (http://www.fujibikes.com/) has some nice Reynolds 853 offerings. The Roubaix Pro is 105-equipped and sells for something in the neighbourhood of US$1,300, while the Ultegra-equipped Marseilles goes for about US$1,750. I've never seen or ridden one, but Fuji has great race cred [Mercury is back astride Fuji this year] and almost every Fuji owner I have ever encountered on the Net is a rabid Fuji fan.

Those are options, but I would definitely look into Italian steel since you're in Euroland. You can probably get an Italian steel bike -- and the Italians make such nice steel frames -- for much less there than you could stateside. If you buy on this side of the Atlantic, though, I'd suggest that you look at Marinoni (http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/). This is a small Canadian company that makes what are, in effect, Italian bikes [in terms of geometry, materials and vibe] in North America. They're very affordable. US$2,000 would get you a custom Marinoni Piuma [Columbus UltraFoco tubing] with Campy Chorus, carbon fork, top-end finishing kit [SI saddle, 3TTT stem and bars, etc.] and the paint job of your choice.

This is my Marinoni...

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=63484

Germany has quite a number of fine steel framebuilders, not as many as in Italy or England, but the ones I have seen are very good.

I found a list of good framebuilders from S+M couplings, who only deal with high quality builders.

http://www.sandsmachine.com/fbplist.htm

A frame from a small workshop is usually built to a higher standard than an industrial frame like the Lemond, and the finishing (cutting threads etc) is usually much better.

Originally posted by MichaelW
I found a list of good framebuilders from S+M couplings, who only deal with high quality builders.


Boy I hope you meant S&S Couplings. The S+M couplings sounds kind of like an adult film;)

Just kidding or course. Go with European Steel bikes and I'd imagine you'd save quite a bit rather than stateside bikes.

Mr Freud is alive and kicking on Bike forums.
Thanks for that :D

I prefer the ride of steel even tho some
will say there really isn't any difference.
here my take on it:
Steel The standard by which all materials are judged.

Ti almost as good as steel, a little less road feel, less
problems in high humidity areas corrosion resistant expensive.

Alu lightweight, oversized tubes to make up for loss
of strength- stiff harsh ride.

Carbon kind of dead unless your paying some serious
bucks.

Velocipedio, Sachs is way outta the price range,
very nice custom built frames.
I'd venture to say maybe the best steel frame
available today? (and I'm very preferential to Serotta)

One thing about steel frames today that I hope someone can address.

When talking about steel frame "sporting" bikes today, all of them seem to be lugless. While that would no doubt affect the weight, I wonder if it also affects the feel and ride of the frame as well. And somehow, provided you stay away from extremely pointy lugs, I suspect that the lugless could be a tad less strong at the joints.

Anyone?

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by gmason
One thing about steel frames today that I hope someone can address.

When talking about steel frame "sporting" bikes today, all of them seem to be lugless. While that would no doubt affect the weight, I wonder if it also affects the feel and ride of the frame as well. And somehow, provided you stay away from extremely pointy lugs, I suspect that the lugless could be a tad less strong at the joints.

It's all economics, Gary, since TIG-welding is much less labour-intensive than brazing. The steels of the good/bad old days could not tolerate welding's higher temperatures without significantly weakening. Thus, in 1965 we saw (expensive) silver-soldered 24lb/11kg Schwinn Paramounts with thinwalled Reynolds 531 and (cheap) electroforged 39lb/18kg Schwinn Continentals with thickwalled ordinary carbon steel. Heat-treated Reynolds 853 and its modern Columbus equivalent can tolerate TIG welding.

Even if a welded frame is a bit weaker than a brazed one, the classic steel frame failure points are within the tubes themselves (downtube behind the butting, chainstays at the tyre clearance dimples, BB shell itself -- been there/done that with each scenario), rather than right at their joints. TIG welding might make a slightly stiffer ride, but frame geometry and tubing gauge have far bigger influences, and it is not fair to compare a long wheelbased Rivendell against a modern close-coupled criterium bike.