Electric Bikes - Anyone heard of or purchased Papamotor electric conversion kits?

hi there, thanks for the great advice, im mainly wanting to use the bike to commute to work, this is around 6 miles each way..

I am struggling to find a decent bike to use.. I have emailed papamotors on different bikes for their advice, and they did 'nt recommend a single one of my suggestions.. they felt the trek 7.2 FX has a weak frame..

then I thought I found a really good but second hand bike, a voodoo boker, but they said that their motors dont work with hydraulic disk brakes..

could you please recommend me a good bike with a strong frame for a maximum budget of around £600.00 (900.00 $)
I would like it to be able to take full mudguard fenders and rack and also maybe front suspension..

the trek 7.2 has steel forks so I thought that would be strong enough for he front motor? what is your opinion on this?


Bikes in the UK, if that's where you're located, are higher priced than here in the States. The 2012 Kona Lanai, 2012 Kona Fire Mountain, and the 2012 Kona Minute will all work as strong frames for your Papamotors kit. The Kona Fire Mountain has hydraulic brakes. The Kona Minute has mud guards and a large strong rear rack. I'm working on fitting hydraulic brakes on my 2012 Lanai and don't see any problems doing so. You can get spacers and brake disks from http://www.ebike.ca to make things fit properly. I had my local bike shop shorten the bridge on the rear brake but ebay has a vendor that sells a shorter bridge (F160/R140) so again you shouldn't have any problems using hydraulic brakes. Yes, Papamotors does not supply you any hydraulic brakes. If you select their rear wheel kit they'll send you a low profile brake caliper. I, however, used the Kona stock brake caliper after the modification was done to the stock bridge. I have stiffened my front suspension as much as possible. It would be better to have no shocks front or rear. The Kona Minute fits this criteria.



some other questions? do i have to mount the PAS, what happens if I don't do this, also do I have to use their brakes that they supply? again what happens if I do not do his, I think their brakes cut the motor off from any power.. but I thought that was what the throttle was for, that is when you release the throttle, all power goes? am I wrong here?


You do not have to use the PAS. If you don't you'll have to use the thumb throttle or twist throttle for increasing and decreasing power. You don't need to use Papamotors brakes. If you have the Kona rear bridge modified or purchase the F160/R140 bridge your stock brakes will work. If you use the twist throttle you'll have to use the Papamotors brake handles which send a signal to the controller to stop the motor. If you purchase any of the three Kona bicycles I mentioned you'll have to use the thumb throttle because the brake and derailleur are in combo on the handlebar.



and finally my last question is that most bikes these days come with more than a 6 speed rear free-wheel thing, perhaps like 7,8 or maybe more, the papa motor rear wheel can only take a 6 speed free-wheel? is this a big issue for bikes that have more than that gear system.. can the derailleur be adjusted so that only the 6 free-wheels systems is accessed?

thanks again for your help and im really looking forward to getting his project going...

I haven't changed gears on my Kona since I installed the Papamotors kit. :) I purchased the 6-speed freewheel from www.ebike.ca (http://www.ebike.ca) and left the gear selector on the tallest/hardest setting (smallest rear cog + biggest front cog). Again, I have the PAS installed and only use the thumb throttle to get me moving from a standstill.

I hope I've answered all your questions.

Stay tuned...more to come. :thumb:

hello again and thanks for your info, ok so can you please tell me what you think of the VOODOO BOKER , specifically 2009 edition.. I have read that they have great frames and come with the 7005 aluminium, same as what you have on your kona..

I am attaching a picture of the rear fork.. can you tell me if you think this is ok for the rear 1000 watt motor to hold?

258911


thanks for your help in this,

hello again and thanks for your info, ok so can you please tell me what you think of the VOODOO BOKER , specifically 2009 edition.. I have read that they have great frames and come with the 7005 aluminium, same as what you have on your kona..

I am attaching a picture of the rear fork.. can you tell me if you think this is ok for the rear 1000 watt motor to hold?

258911

thanks for your help in this,

The frame looks strong enough; however, the metal piece held on by two allen bolts on each side of the rear fork may be a problem. Some questions you'll need to find answers for are:

1) Will the lock nut for the hub motor axle fit? It may be a tight squeeze.
2) The Papamotors kit uses a rear brake bracket to move the rear caliper out away from the frame. This bracket takes a good 1/2 inch of the hub motor axle. Will you be able to fit the bracket, the rear brake disk and any spacers all between the rear fork with that metal piece which holds the axle to the frame?
3) Will rear torque arms fit if you need to install them? I've got mine on the outside of the rear fork.

I've included some pictures of my bike and what components are on the hub axle:

258912 258913

It looks like a rear bike rack will fit from your picture if you want to use it to hold the battery.

Go for it. Worse case is you have to sell the Voodoo Bokor and get a bike that will work with the Papamotors kit.

Check through the install instructions on the Papamotors website and make sure all their required distances are met with the Bokor as well.

hi there, thanks for your input again, well some more news, the voodoo boker deal didn' t work out, and the guy selling it, sold it to someone else..
so I have been looking at other bikes, and have come up with the following two..

Trek 6000
http://www.www2.evanscycles.com/products/trek/6000-d-2012-mountain-bike-ec030270#features
259112

and also the SPECIALIZED road COMP 2012
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/rockhopper-comp-2012-mountain-bike-ec030687
259113

so can you please have a look at the specs and the rear forks, and let me know if you think they can accept the 1000 watt papamotor motor.

I know that you have made some recommendations, which I def will think about too, but it be great to get your feedback and anyone elses on the trek and specialized...

thanks

Spirit733t, both the Trek 6000 and the Specialized road comp 2012 will work with the Papamotors rear 48v 1000w kit. You should also plan on switching the tires, the rims, and perhaps getting a more comfortable seat. You should be able to sell back the tires, rims, etc. to the bike store that puts the bicycle together. They will buy the parts back if they have not been used at all. Plan on switching to street tires, a thorn resistant inner tube, and using Mr. Tuffy tire liners for a nearly bulletproof setup. If you have these components already with you; you can have the bike store install them instead of the stock components.

ok thanks, then on that note I think I will go ahead and buy the trek, as it seems to have better components.

the bike has hydraulic brakes, papamotor said thats a issue, what do you think ?

my plan/ idea is not to use their supplied brake handles and brake wiring system, just the motor , throttle, controller and battery and keep using the treks supplied hydraulic discs brakes..

when you mentioned that I should change the rims do you mean that I should change the wheels?

thanks

and by the way how is your bike going, how is the motor running along? any issues?

out of 10 how would you rate the kit, in terms of build quality, durability, battery usage, speed, stealth?

here in England they have a legal limit of only 15mph, so stealth is important..

thanks again

ok thanks, then on that note I think I will go ahead and buy the trek, as it seems to have better components.

the bike has hydraulic brakes, papamotor said thats a issue, what do you think ?

my plan/ idea is not to use their supplied brake handles and brake wiring system, just the motor , throttle, controller and battery and keep using the treks supplied hydraulic discs brakes..

when you mentioned that I should change the rims do you mean that I should change the wheels?

thanks

Hydraulic brakes shouldn't be a problem as long as you can use the Papamotors rear brake bracket to hold the caliper. Papamotors has shipped me free of charge an extra bracket for me to modify for my hydraulic brake conversion. I promised to send them pictures of the modifications needed to go to hydraulic brakes. :) You'll be glad once you get the kit up and running that your using hydraulic brakes. ;)

Yes, the components you mentioned are the best part of their kits. Anything extra such as the free wheel you can purchase from www.ebike.ca including the Cycle Analyst.

I'm tending towards having larger width rims and larger width tires as suggested by Greg Davey (www.fastelectricbike.com (http://www.fastelectricbike.com)); however, I don't think I can squeeze a full 2.5 inch tire such as the Maxxis Hookworms between the rear fork. The Schwalbe Big Apple 26 x 2.35 tires look very tempting along with double walled 42 mm rims from http://www.unicycle.com/unicycle-hardware/rims-and-custom-wheelsets/?typerim=446&wheel_size=347. This is the setup I will most likely end up with in the very near future along with thick spokes (12g) front and back. I just installed the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme on the rear rim and will try it out tomorrow morning.

I would suggest going straight to the 42 mm double walled rims and 2.35 or 2.5 tires. Ask Papamotors if they could install their rear hub on a 42 mm double walled rim. If not, you could save on the cost of their rim and have them just send the hub motor and spokes. You could then put the hub, rim, spokes, etc. together yourself or get your local bicycle store to do it and also true the combo. It may mean more work up front for you but you'll be well off and unlike me won't have to try different tire combinations. ;)

Remember, you won't need the Trek rear stock rim, free wheel, tire, etc. if you get the Papamotors rear wheel kit. Sell all of these components back to the bike store you purchase the Trek from. In fact, make sure you get the local bike store to agree on purchasing all your stock components before you make your Trek purchase. They'll be more willing to work with you if it means the sale depends on this buy back. All the stock components are new anyway and your local bicycle store (LBS) shouldn't have any problems finding new homes for the parts. You may have to sell the stock parts at a slight loss so the LBS can make a profit on them. ;)

Oh, once you go to the 42 mm rim width; remember, your tire options will now be limited to the larger tire widths.

and by the way how is your bike going, how is the motor running along? any issues?

out of 10 how would you rate the kit, in terms of build quality, durability, battery usage, speed, stealth?

here in England they have a legal limit of only 15mph, so stealth is important..

thanks again

The hub motor has been flawless (knock on wood). I had a situation a few weeks ago when the motor came to a stop while I was riding and I thought the worst had happened. It turned out one of the motor wires going to the controller had come loose. I quickly double checked all the wiring connections and was back on my commute.

There is some rust starting to form on the rear brake bracket. I should have put more than one coat of Rustoleum on it. I noticed the stock Kona chain in one or two small places starting to rust. I'm going to have to be more liberal in my WD-40 usage or purchase some chain lube. ;)

I would rate the Papamotors 48v 1000w rear wheel kit as an 8 out of 10. The free wheel, and some of their small components could be better quality but I don't think you could get their kit for the price they now sell it for with such upgrades. Their customer service is fantastic! They always respond to my emails within 24 hrs. Any of the components that failed me they have paid for the replacements I purchased as well as the shipping costs. Their kits will only get better I believe as they receive more customer feedback.

If you want stealth then you'll have to go with my cargo cache setup I've documented in this thread. :thumb:

Of course, people will give you crazy looking faces when they see you fly by them. You can tell they're trying to figure out how you're going so fast without any exhaust fumes coming from the rear of the bicycle or any electrical components in plain view. I've been thinking about installing this just to give people something to look at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCvGGuN8a9k :roflmao2:

That was a joke. Please don't install it on your e-bike. ;)

Remember to keep us posted on your build. :)

hello,

ok just wanted your opinion on the front hub 1000 watt motor; for the trek 6000 bike, heres an image of the fork:

259223

SR Suntour XCR RL Suspension Fork
http://markscyclerepairs.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=32

please tell me if you think this is strong enough? and also what is your opinion on front direct motors? do you think the papamotors front system is safe enough?

I will try and change the front brakes to v-brakes if I go this route.. or can you use hydraulic disc brakes in the front too..

the reason I ask is that if use the front motor, I can keep the 10 spoke free wheel on the rear? and also on this bike, you can lock the front suspension and so make it into a total hard front-end tail bike..

and just to confirm with you, with the papamotor kit, I dont have to use their brake levers or the PAS..

thanks again..

Sorry for not responding earlier. Was on a Boy Scout backpacking trip.

The PAS magnet is in place, but has been disconnected because it only workes when pedaling backwards. Must have installed something backwards. The thumb throttle gets painfull holding down the lever, so I use a twist throttle instead. It takes almost no effort.

hello,

ok just wanted your opinion on the front hub 1000 watt motor; for the trek 6000 bike, heres an image of the fork:

259223

SR Suntour XCR RL Suspension Fork
http://markscyclerepairs.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=32

please tell me if you think this is strong enough? and also what is your opinion on front direct motors? do you think the papamotors front system is safe enough?

I will try and change the front brakes to v-brakes if I go this route.. or can you use hydraulic disc brakes in the front too..

the reason I ask is that if use the front motor, I can keep the 10 spoke free wheel on the rear? and also on this bike, you can lock the front suspension and so make it into a total hard front-end tail bike..

and just to confirm with you, with the papamotor kit, I dont have to use their brake levers or the PAS..

thanks again..

The fork looks strong enough from the picture but you may want to ask dhoward about the 1000w setup on the front wheel. I haven't rode on a front drive e-bike so I wouldn't know exactly how much of difference there is. :( Believe me, you won't be able to keep up with the 1000w motor even if your pedaling. Having the stock free wheel does nothing for you. I think the front wheel setup looks more obvious that your bicycle is an e-bike. There's also more weight on the rear wheel with the rear wheel setup so you get a bit more traction. The only positive thing regarding the front wheel setup would be the weight distribution between the hub motor on the front and the battery closer to the rear wheel. I only feel the difference in weight when I'm at very low speeds.

Dhoward, any comments regarding the front wheel setup?

Anyone on the forum with experience having a 1000w setup on the front wheel?

Don't know about having hydraulic brakes on the front. It should be like the rear minus the bracket maybe. You may want to take a look at the Papamotors online installation instructions and see what the front wheel setup looks like.

The PAS is just another throttle but it senses if you're pedaling or not. If you use the thumb throttle you don't need the Papamotors brake levers but if you use the twist throttle you'll need to use the e-brake levers. The PAS will work with either setup. I highly recommend it and if you have a combination brake/derailleur setup I don't think you'll have a choice but to use the thumb throttle. Dhoward should be able to confirm this.

You may be looking for more braking power if you use v-brakes with the 1000w setup.

Dhoward, any insight on whether you think you have enough front braking power? Thanks.

Sorry for not responding earlier. Was on a Boy Scout backpacking trip.

The PAS magnet is in place, but has been disconnected because it only workes when pedaling backwards. Must have installed something backwards. The thumb throttle gets painfull holding down the lever, so I use a twist throttle instead. It takes almost no effort.

Good to have you back. Spirit733t has some questions I directed your way regarding the front wheel setup.

Yep, you have the PAS wheel on backwards. You don't know what your missing not using the PAS. ;) I love that component. It makes me feel I'm still on a bicycle and not solely using the battery. Plus, it really confuses the onlookers and motorists. :)

I just finished a 30+ mile commute using the fairing I installed and the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme rear tire. Both components are an improvement. I had the rear tire at 50 psi and after the first 15 miles I realized I needed to have the air pressure a bit higher. I increased it to 53 psi for the return trip home but I think 55-60 may be ideal. I still think the larger width tires would give better handling so I'll be ordering the unicycle double wall rims and larger tires soon. I'm going to try and see if I can squeeze the Maxxis Hookworms in. :rolleyes:

What I did want to mention was how effective the fairing is. It's absolutely fantastic! I was able to increase my max speed by 1-2 mph and I used 1.3 Ah less of energy on the first 15 mile leg of my commute. Incredible!

There's just one more adjustment I'd like to make to the fairing and then I'll let you all in on the adjustments and who to purchase it from if you haven't guessed already. ;)

Stay tuned...more to come. :thumb:

hi again,

sounds like your having lots of fun.. so I have a few more questions?

Im having a hard finding a good front fork/ suspension fork that can take v brakes.. that is really strong, any recommendations at all?

Papamotor say you cant have disc brakes on front wheel, so thats a bummer.

I have found a steel fork with no suspension, but i really wanted front suspension.. I know that you recommend that I dont use front suspension.. can I ask what is the reason behind this?

otherwise it may have to be a rear motor after all.. only reason why I did nt want to go with the rear motor was because I did nt want to mess around with the gearing system..

the trek 6000 has 10 wheel freewheel, so if I was to have the papa motor rear system, im guessing that I would have to do something with the rear derailler so that it does not use 10 gears.. ( is that right)

thanks again

hi again,

sounds like your having lots of fun.. so I have a few more questions?

Im having a hard finding a good front fork/ suspension fork that can take v brakes.. that is really strong, any recommendations at all?

Papamotor say you cant have disc brakes on front wheel, so thats a bummer.

I have found a steel fork with no suspension, but i really wanted front suspension.. I know that you recommend that I dont use front suspension.. can I ask what is the reason behind this?

otherwise it may have to be a rear motor after all.. only reason why I did nt want to go with the rear motor was because I did nt want to mess around with the gearing system..

the trek 6000 has 10 wheel freewheel, so if I was to have the papa motor rear system, im guessing that I would have to do something with the rear derailler so that it does not use 10 gears.. ( is that right)

thanks again

Any upgrades in your front fork will run anywhere from $300 and up in addition to the cost of your bicycle. The local bicycle store from which you purchase your bicycle will be able to recommend a good front fork. Again, it won't be cheap.

Send Dhoward a PM regarding his setup. He has the Papamotors kit on the front wheel. In my experience having a front suspension does not give me the proper feedback on the road even after changing the settings on the front fork. When I brake at the speeds the 1000w kit attains, the front fork wants to dip down a huge amount. This probably wouldn't be an issue with a more expensive fork.

If you go with the larger width tires and rims, the extra rubber should provide plenty of suspension riding on the street.

I have not made any adjustments to my gearing system since I installed the rear kit. You shouldn't be intimidated by the gearing. It's very easy to change the free wheel. I looked up the instructions on YouTube and did it myself. Once the free wheel is installed, set the front and rear derailleur to allow a smooth, straight motion for the chain. You will also have to write down the wire coloring of the hall sensors coming from the hub motor (the white male plug) and which slots the wires occupy since you'll have to remove that connection to remove/install the free wheel. That's it.

Yes, you would have to change the rear free wheel to 6 or 7 gears, what ever you can fit with the rear kit components from Papamotors. I picked up a Shimano 6 speed free wheel from www.ebike.ca which is working great. They also have 7 and 8 gear free wheels. The chain is only along for the ride, it makes no real contribution to you going forward. You could still operate the bicycle without the chain. Of course, everyone would know for sure you have an e-bike at that point. ;)

As far as fork strength goes, the torque arms and C washers provided with the kit, distribute the torque so that most any fork with the right width should be adequate. Check out the "Manual" tab on the Papa Motors website for details. It also addresses various brake installations.

I am using standard brakes, that are a bit light for the higher speeds. Constantly adjusting them up. It would be a good idea to beef up the brakes. Especially the front.

I got the front hub motor to balance out the weight and to avoid issues with gears. It spins out easily if you don't have much weight on the front wheel when starting out, or when in dirt or loose gravel. If you plan to do much off-road riding, then you would want to use a rear hub. For regular hard surface riding, just go easy on the throttle if you don't have full weight on the front wheel.

About thumb drives - If that is all you plan to use, then your thumb will be very tired after about 10 minutes of riding. I prefer the twist throttle. Easier on the hands.

With the front suspension, the front does dip down when stopping, as most of your weight is there. It doesn't affect stopping ability though.

thanks guys, appreciate all your help and the heads up.. I have finally decided on the bike Im gonna get, its gonna be a

SARACEN Kili Cro-Mo 2 Mens Mountain Bike.. its a steel frame, so should def be strong enough.

as for the papamotor kit, Im gonna go for the rear hub..1000 watt drive..

but it will take me at least 2 months to get everything, the bike and papamotor kit.. but im really looking forward to this..

At the moment I gotta take a bus to work, at around 6 miles each way, and that costs me nearly£20.00 per week.... so yes the kit is expensive but in the long run I should save loads of money.

having a car is very expensive, what with high cost of fuel, insurance and servicing.. so this should be a winner...

thanks again

thanks guys, appreciate all your help and the heads up.. I have finally decided on the bike Im gonna get, its gonna be a

SARACEN Kili Cro-Mo 2 Mens Mountain Bike.. its a steel frame, so should def be strong enough.

as for the papamotor kit, Im gonna go for the rear hub..1000 watt drive..

but it will take me at least 2 months to get everything, the bike and papamotor kit.. but im really looking forward to this..

At the moment I gotta take a bus to work, at around 6 miles each way, and that costs me nearly£20.00 per week.... so yes the kit is expensive but in the long run I should save loads of money.

having a car is very expensive, what with high cost of fuel, insurance and servicing.. so this should be a winner...

thanks again

Congratulations, spirit733t. :beer:

Don't forget to purchase a strong U-lock such as http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FL4Y3S/ref=wms_ohs_product to keep your investment safe. This is the lock I have.

Here's a short video of bicycle thieves in England: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdugFzCi24&feature=relmfu

Keep us posted on your build. :thumb:

thanks for all your help, will need lots of help when I finally buy the kit, please keep the thread updated with your feedback with your experience so far of the kit. it be great to have a continuous log of success / issues.. this will help myself and other potential buyers of the kit.

thanks again

It is universal agreed on ebike forums that you do NOT use aluminium fork for front hubmotor , torque arm no matter.
I would consider crazy to put 1000W on alu fork.

thanks for all your help, will need lots of help when I finally buy the kit, please keep the thread updated with your feedback with your experience so far of the kit. it be great to have a continuous log of success / issues.. this will help myself and other potential buyers of the kit.

thanks again

You're right...if we all contribute to what has and hasn't worked we should be able to save each other a lot of money and frustration. I just received word from Papamotors that their 48v 1000w hub motor rim can use tires from 1.75 to 2.15 inches. I would like to go to the 2.5 inch Maxxis Hookworms which I have already purchased. I'm waiting on additional rim measurements from Papamotors before selecting a larger width rim.

The Schwalbe Marathon Supreme rear tire is holding up great; however, I think the bicycle feels more stable with a psi closer to 55 not 60 with this tire. I also purchased additional Pitlocks in the 23mm size to secure and deter any possible theft of the front fairing. I'll be installing them sometime this weekend and will have pictures up soon.

Stay tuned...more to come. :thumb:

It is universal agreed on ebike forums that you do NOT use aluminium fork for front hubmotor , torque arm no matter.
I would consider crazy to put 1000W on alu fork.

You're right, Powell. I think the lure of an easy installation is the main reason people may choose to use the front wheel setup. I know I had those thoughts when I was trying to determine front or rear wheel setup. ;)

hi again, maybe you could make a step by step easy to understand manual with pictures.. ( for newbies.. like me) on the exact process of building a rear motor drive, specifically tailored towards the papamotor kit..

thanks again

hi again, maybe you could make a step by step easy to understand manual with pictures.. ( for newbies.. like me) on the exact process of building a rear motor drive, specifically tailored towards the papamotor kit..

thanks again

Not a bad idea, Spirit733t. I'm working now on building my own 26" rims with Maxxis Hookworms which I hope will fit. The rims should be here by the end of next week. It has been a challenge working with various vendors to try and get a wide, strong wheel setup. Those who are interested in doing the same upgrade would certainly benefit.

How long before you receive your Papamotor kit? The Ping battery?

Anyone else out there interested in seeing a installation manual specifically tailored towards the Papamotor kit? Speak up now or forever hold your peace. ;)

How long before you receive your Papamotor kit? The Ping battery?

I just go the bike delivered, its the saracen chromo killi 2, I will have to wait at least for next pay day to buy the kit, so at least a month away..
so my basic idea is to only install the following parts;

hub motor, controller box, rear disc brake system, thumb throttle and battery...

I dont intend to use the papa motor brakes handles or PAS, as I am a newbie on bikes, and dont want to do any thing to complicated?

my bike has a 10 wheel(gears) rear freewheel.. I wish I could use that?

also shimano 775 hydraulic disc brakes... which I will defo need help in mounting this onto the papa motor wheel.

by the way when you got your package delivered in the USA , did you have to pay any form of tax on the goods?

and as for your manual, I really hope that you do it..

thanks again

I just go the bike delivered, its the saracen chromo killi 2, I will have to wait at least for next pay day to buy the kit, so at least a month away..
so my basic idea is to only install the following parts;

hub motor, controller box, rear disc brake system, thumb throttle and battery...

I dont intend to use the papa motor brakes handles or PAS, as I am a newbie on bikes, and dont want to do any thing to complicated?


Where do you plan on keeping the battery and the controller? I highly recommend getting the cargo cache and a strong rear bike rack. You'll enjoy the bike even more when you can carry a small amount of cargo and not have to worry about the controller and battery being exposed to the elements or to curious eyes.

Take a picture of your bottom bracket, the section where your pedals attach to the bike frame, and post it here. You'll be surprised how easy it is to install the PAS and you may not have to use the Dremel on the PAS ring. Then if you don't want to use it you just don't have to plug in the connection to the controller.



my bike has a 10 wheel(gears) rear freewheel.. I wish I could use that?


Remember, you can always sell your new stock bicycle parts on ebay, back to the bike store, etc.




also shimano 775 hydraulic disc brakes... which I will defo need help in mounting this onto the papa motor wheel.


No, problem and I'm jealous you have the hydraulic brakes. ;)



by the way when you got your package delivered in the USA , did you have to pay any form of tax on the goods?


No, I didn't have to pay any taxes.



and as for your manual, I really hope that you do it..
thanks again

If your the only one that needs the instructions then it would be easier to just PM me. I'll respond back within 12 hours. If there were more people interested in detailed instructions then it would be worth the time to create one.

this is picture of the rear rack, its quick mount onto the seat post.. it actually consist of two separate parts, one is the actual rack and the second is the silver metal side panel frame thing.. the reason for the silver side panel metal thing is this

261396261397 261398

and heres some pictures of the crankset

261399261400261401

by the way, what is the reasoning behind not being able to use more than 6 gear cogs on the rear freewheel thing?

can I definitely not use my stock 10 wheel free-wheel?

and also can you tell me what is the diameter of your brake discs? I think mine is 160 mm / 16 cm.

and what is the diameter of the brake disk on the papa motor kit?

can you tell me how long did it take for eh delivery to happen to yourself?

thanks again

by the way, what is the reasoning behind not being able to use more than 6 gear cogs on the rear freewheel thing?

can I definitely not use my stock 10 wheel free-wheel?

and also can you tell me what is the diameter of your brake discs? I think mine is 160 mm / 16 cm.

and what is the diameter of the brake disk on the papa motor kit?

can you tell me how long did it take for eh delivery to happen to yourself?

thanks again

You can use more than six gear cogs but remember you also have all the components and spacers of the rear hub motor as well. All these spacers and cogs add up pushing your rear fork more and more apart which puts stress on the rear fork welded sections.

You won't be able to use your stock 10 free wheel because the hub motor has a different diameter connection than your stoke rear hub.

Also, you won't need the gears once you have the hub motor installed...unless your looking to get a workout on your commutes. ;)

My brake discs are 160 mm and the rear hub motor brake disc is 160 mm.

The kit arrived in 10 days and the Ping battery took a few days longer.

this is picture of the rear rack, its quick mount onto the seat post.. it actually consist of two separate parts, one is the actual rack and the second is the silver metal side panel frame thing.. the reason for the silver side panel metal thing is this

261396261397 261398

and heres some pictures of the crankset

261399261400261401

The Ping battery won't fit in that rear rack bag. I tried it and had to return the bag back. :( Also, the silver frame is a good idea but most panniers will need a horizontal bar or two lower than the top bar to use as a connection point. You need to keep in mind security of your bike rack. The more connections you have to the frame the more stable it will be and more of a deterrent to those who will want to steal it. Don't forget to get the Pitlocks I mentioned earlier in this thread for your seat post and front wheel. Here's the link to a real beefy rear rack http://www.jandd.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamCat=3&iLevel=2&subcat=13. Go for the Expedition Rack along with the cargo cache.

You will also definitely need the www.ebike.ca (http://www.ebike.ca) universal torque arms. The Papamotor's torque arms are meant to be used for the front though you may want to make an attempt to get them to fit the rear fork. The ebike.ca torque arms are a 1/4 inch thick and a bit expensive but it's worth the investment and peace of mind. The rear fork hub connection looks very thin on your bike.

You are planning on riding your bicycle on the street, correct?

You'll also need to get the turn signals I mentioned earlier in this thread. If you do get the turn signals let me know, I've come up with a way to properly secure the rear light to the bike rack and the cargo cache.

Don't forget a good horn. I looked at the air horn with the connection to the water bottle type container which holds the compressed air but it looked too weird so I went with the hornit (www.thehornit.com (http://www.hornit.com)) and love it.

hi there, thanks for the info;

ok can you direct link me to the correct torque arm and rear freewheel and also rack please.. please bear in my bike has no rack holders, so thats why i need to be a little creative as to how to put a rack on..

sorry what is a pitlock?

yea, the frame is quite thin on my bike, but its made from steel chromoloy 4130, which is apparantly really strong, so the thin tubes should be as strong as if not more than thick alluminium frames..well I hope

btw would I be able to use the 9 wheel freewheel from e-bike?

what do you think of my crank set/ chainset ( the part where you peddle, is this suitable for PAS)

Im planning riding on the street 90 % of the time, in fact it is for commuting to work on a six mile journey each way....

Im not planning on buying turn signals lol.. but I am planning on buying these lights

261443261444

thats a hope district rear light, and front magic shine 872

will I be able to use my current discs for the conversion?

and how do you fit the e-bike ' control display gadget ' ( the thing that tells you how much volts/ amps speed your using and so on)

ok can you direct link me to the correct torque arm and rear freewheel and also rack please.. please bear in my bike has no rack holders, so thats why i need to be a little creative as to how to put a rack on..


The torque arms are on (
TorqArmRev4 is the one you want on
http://www.ebike.ca/store/store_connectors.php
)
and the free wheels are on: http://www.ebike.ca/store/store_motors.php. I went with the Shimano 6-speed because of the name brand. The other higher free wheels don't look to be Shimano.

The rack holders will come with the rack. You need to be sure to get a rack for disc brakes. This is the one I have: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZKHN6Y/ref=wms_ohs_product but the one I mentioned earlier is longer and stronger.



sorry what is a pitlock?


Pitlocks are a bicycle thief's worst nightmare. :) Go to http://www.pitlock.com and order the front wheel and seat post locks. You'll need a flat surface on your seat post clamp if you don't have a flat surface then get this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CK7K8C/ref=wms_ohs_product which is what I used and discard the skewer. Double check your seat post diameter before purchasing.



yea, the frame is quite thin on my bike, but its made from steel chromoloy 4130, which is apparantly really strong, so the thin tubes should be as strong as if not more than thick alluminium frames..well I hope

btw would I be able to use the 9 wheel freewheel from e-bike?


Yes, you should be able to use the nine wheel freewheel just be aware of the width of all the components.



what do you think of my crank set/ chainset ( the part where you peddle, is this suitable for PAS)


That's tough. You won't know until you take the crank set apart. I tried first trying to install the PAS where Papamotor's manual had suggested but had to switch over to the other side of the crank set to make it fit. If you do switch the installation side don't forget to also switch the black trigger wheel. It has arrows which show the direction the front/rear bicycle wheels spins. If you don't get it right you'll go forward only when you pedal backwards.



Im planning riding on the street 90 % of the time, in fact it is for commuting to work on a six mile journey each way....

Im not planning on buying turn signals lol.. but I am planning on buying these lights

261443261444

thats a hope district rear light, and front magic shine 872


Only six miles! I guarantee that you'll want to take a longer way to work because you'll have so much fun riding the e-bike. ;)

Don't bother with those lights because the Bicygnals (http://www.amazon.com/Bicygnals-BIC241-Indicator-Bicycle-Light/dp/B003EQENZ0/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1342302212&sr=1-3&keywords=turn+signals+for+bicycles) does what those lights do plus you have the turn signals. Get this to put the front turn signals on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FIAVN8/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00



will I be able to use my current discs for the conversion?


Only your front disc not the back which is a shame since you have hydraulic discs. Check the width of the Papamotor's disc in the kit to the rear disc on your bike. Make sure the widths/thickness are the same. They should be.



and how do you fit the e-bike ' control display gadget ' ( the thing that tells you how much volts/ amps speed your using and so on)

The Cycle Analyst has a clamp but the bar I gave a link to earlier will work if you run out of space on your front bar. IMPORTANT: The Cycle Analyst is coming out in a new version. Make sure you ask for it. I have the 2.5 version but there's a newer one.

I feel like I'm writing a manual. Damn you, Spirit733t...damn you to hell.:roflmao2:Lol

Only your front disc not the back which is a shame since you have hydraulic discs. Check the width of the Papamotor's disc in the kit to the rear disc on your bike. Make sure the widths/thickness are the same. They should be.

if the size is the same, then why cant I use my current one?

does the rack holder you mentioned come with connection/ clamps that can be connected to the frame, because my bike has no normal rack connections on the frame it self?

what do you think of 4130 chromoly steel? is it strong enough?


I feel like I'm writing a manual. Damn you, Spirit733t...damn you to hell.:roflmao2:Lol

yes most definetly, but your help is well appreciated, an I can assure you that others will follow, as word get round how good the papamoor kit is?

if the size is the same, then why cant I use my current one?

does the rack holder you mentioned come with connection/ clamps that can be connected to the frame, because my bike has no normal rack connections on the frame it self?

what do you think of 4130 chromoly steel? is it strong enough?


You may be able to use your current rear brake disc. I had problems trying to get mine to fit. The hub motor has a certain diameter and if your rear brake disc has a fancy design pattern in the center then you can't insert it over the hub motor. Definitely try and use your rear stock brake disc if you can, even if you have to get some metal in the center cut without sacrificing the functionality/strength of the disc.

You should see two screws below your seat post on either side of the bar leading to your rear fork. This is one point where the bike rack connects too.

I have no idea about the strength of 4130 chromoly steel. Sounds tough though.

yes most definetly, but your help is well appreciated, an I can assure you that others will follow, as word get round how good the papamoor kit is?
Yes, thank you very much for this thread EBikeFL! You have convinced me on the Papa Motor kit.
I'm still trying to decide which bicycle I want. I would be more interested in the twist throttle, so that rules out the Kona Lana'i.
Speaking of which, what size is your bike? 26 inch tires?

I don't know much about bikes, but I do know about all things electrical! :thumb:
Whatever bike I decide it will be my first one not from a big box retailer.
I first was thinking of a Xootr Swift, but I figured it would be easier converting something that's full size and not a folder.

I should add that I'm building the bike for my work commute, which is just under 6.5 miles one way.
Hills are an issue. Not horribly steep, but just so long that I wouldn't be able to make it.

Yes, thank you very much for this thread EBikeFL! You have convinced me on the Papa Motor kit.
I'm still trying to decide which bicycle I want. I would be more interested in the twist throttle, so that rules out the Kona Lana'i.
Speaking of which, what size is your bike? 26 inch tires?

I don't know much about bikes, but I do know about all things electrical! :thumb:
Whatever bike I decide it will be my first one not from a big box retailer.
I first was thinking of a Xootr Swift, but I figured it would be easier converting something that's full size and not a folder.

I should add that I'm building the bike for my work commute, which is just under 6.5 miles one way.
Hills are an issue. Not horribly steep, but just so long that I wouldn't be able to make it.

I'm glad this thread is helping a few forum members. :)

I have 26" rims and tires now. I've already ordered a pair of Sun Ringle MTX-39 rims in 26" to go with my Maxxis Hookworms. Sun Ringle has the MTX-39 listed in a 24" which I wanted and after an email to Sun Ringle regarding my lack of success of finding a vendor selling the 24", I found out they no longer manufacture the 24" rim. :rolleyes:

Look for a bicycle that has hydraulic brakes...you'll need them. ;) Also, look for a bicycle frame that will accommodate larger rims and tires since you'll probably want to move in that direction as I am. You'll save money in the long run from having to make all the upgrades to your bicycle as I am now.

We can always use your electrical expertise on this thread and on this forum. :thumb: Please don't be a stranger.

Yeah, you don't want a folding bicycle for a hub motor putting out 48v 1000w.

The 48v 1000w will eat any hill for breakfast. I have a nice little overpass I go over and I do it at 28-29 mph.

I have a problem right now with my bicycle glove rubbing against the thumb throttle and engaging the hub motor. On several occasions I've had to suddenly lift the front wheel up and hit the brakes and on another occasion I had to spin the bicycle around on the back tire. The hub motor doesn't immediately disengage after the throttle is touched. Of course, I was laughing in each situation but it's something you may want to keep in mind. If you use a twist throttle and you put any kind of torque on the handle you could engage the motor. Then, if you try to hold up the front wheel you'd put more torque on the handle and further engage the motor instead of having it slow down...something to keep in mind if you do decide on the twist throttle.

Dhoward, a member on this thread with the Papamotor front wheel kit, has a twist throttle so you may want to send him a PM and ask his thoughts on using the twist throttle.

Papamotor sent me a beautiful twist throttle with a key on/off instead of just a red button. Ask them about it when you order your kit and if you need to add a few dollars to the price, it will be worth it. I'll have to post some pictures of the throttle soon.

Keep us posted on your build. :thumb:

I knew that as word gets round on the this kit and also all the helpful info from EbikeFL, the papa motor kit is gonna become really popular, simply because its a good price and package and so much really helpful info on that kit..

so thanks again EbikeFL, you ve started a fan club!!!

I knew that as word gets round on the this kit and also all the helpful info from EbikeFL, the papa motor kit is gonna become really popular, simply because its a good price and package and so much really helpful info on that kit..

so thanks again EbikeFL, you ve started a fan club!!!

Thank you, Spirit733t. It's a team effort. :)

My e-bike is a big hit where ever I go. I spoke with someone today who is commuting nearly 50 miles one way everyday. I imagine their gasoline bill must be close to $500 every month. Vehicles also stop when making right hand turns and stare at my bike even when their lane is free to turn into. I imagine the high gas prices are taking their toll and people are seriously thinking about alternate forms of transportation. All this attention is something you'll have to get used too, Spirit733t and SiXiam. ;)

oh by the way, what does the red button on the thumb throttle do exactly?


and how is your battery, does the bms system work good on it.


and also when you charge your battery, can you take it of the bike, or do you charge the battery whilst it still on the bike?


and what the max range you have at the moment on one charge? and what is the range when you floor the motor all the way?


SiXiam .. my commute is is also 6 miles each way which also includes some hill, so we both in the same boat..


make sure whatver bike you buy has a strong frame, the konai lanai, has all a alluminium frame made from 7005 type aluminium, this is the stronger type so its good, personally I think you should get something with a 4130 chromolly steel frame, which is very strong

http://www.brightspoke.com/c/understanding/bike-frame-materials.html

heres a good link on bike materials..

if you do get the kona, then your in good hands as its the exact same bike as EBikeFL (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php/297436-EBikeFL),

so you can copy directly what EBikeFL (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php/297436-EBikeFL) did.. so should be easy process for you.

try not to get the weaker aluminium 6061 frames.. 7005 should be minimum for all round ease of mind..

other things to consider on your bike frame is can it easily take fenders and racks.. the problem with my bike is that it cant take these things easy, and I have to be a bit creative as to how I install these things.. but it can be done.. just more harder..

make sure your chainset/ crankset ( the part you pedal) is a minimum two piece set ( contains 2 parts).. so then you can install the PAS system.. ( pedal assist system).

and the safe bet I think is to go for the rear motor, as if the front has failure you end up worst case scenario fly over the handle bars resulting in a nasty accident..

and keep involved in this thread, it will help others and me too.. welcome to the world of cool bikes

The red button deactivates the throttle.

The Ping battery will not give you any problems. It's one of the best LiFePO4 batteries for e-bikes. The only problem is you'll want to have two. ;)

I charge the battery both on and off the e-bike.

I get 15 miles for about 9.2 Ah using max throttle (30+ mph). The front fairing has helped in decreasing the energy used and increased my max mph.

I could easily do over 30 miles at say around 20 mph on a single charge.

The Kona Lanai is a good bike but the smaller components are basic. Some of them are starting to show signs of rust. I will be slowly replacing all the components to the Shamino XT lineup. Of course, I didn't expect too much for the price I paid for the Lanai. If you invest in a good strong frame with more than the average quality of parts you'll pay a bit more but you won't have to make many upgrades. Look for the downhill mountain bike frames and parts since these bikes are built to handle a lot of stress and abuse keeping in mind that you'll also want to add a bike rack and fenders as you mentioned.

hi, where did you buy your front fairing from, i think I need one too..

hi, where did you buy your front fairing from, i think I need one too..

The front fairing I purchased from Zipper Road Fairings (http://www.zzipper.com/index.php). Talk to Karl, the owner and fabricator, about the Thriller model fairing which is the one I have (under the upright option on the website). Karl made my fairing out of a thicker polycarbonate due to the higher speeds attained by my e-bike so make sure you request the thicker material. Karl's assistant is named Debbie and you'll get a response from her if you send Karl an email.

I also removed one of the wing nuts used to secure the fairing on the front and installed the shortest length Pitlock I could get from Pitlock (I think it's a 23 mm shaft) with my key for security. I actually purchased four 23 mm Pitlocks but I only installed one because I wanted to see what the additional weight on the front would be like. I haven't had any problems and will install the other three locks this weekend. This is to secure the connection of the fairing to the two aluminum rods attached to the handlebar. The handlebar connections use allen bolts which you can use the ball bearing and hot glue method for security if you're really concerned about theft of the fairing. The 23 mm shaft is actually a bit too long and I will end up using the dremel to shorten the shaft for a nice clean appearance and weight reduction hanging out on the front.

You'll definitely get some strange looking glances with the fairing on your bike most people have never seen a fairing on a mountain bike. ;)

hi again, can we have lots of high quality images/ photos of your completed bike showing all the parts,
motor, controller, your rack, battery, bms charging, close up of your forks, computer display... etc

and also lost of videos doing different things, like hill climbing, top speed? how the fairing works in he rain and so on.. that would be GREAT..

hi again, can we have lots of high quality images/ photos of your completed bike showing all the parts,
motor, controller, your rack, battery, bms charging, close up of your forks, computer display... etc


I think I can take some high quality photos for everyone to document my e-bike's change from mostly stock components to having higher end parts installed.



and also lost of videos doing different things, like hill climbing, top speed? how the fairing works in he rain and so on.. that would be GREAT..

As you can tell, I use my GoPro camera every time I ride my e-bike. This is to document for the police who, what, when, and where if a vehicle hits me. You've probably seen on the news the two bicycle riders who were hit by a vehicle and thanks to the rear cyclist recording the bicycle trip, police were able to track down the driver and press charges. Drivers also seem to notice the camera and are a bit more likely to observe the three foot distance law while passing me.

I've taken video in the rain but there's not much to see. I can post a file riding in the rain if I can find one that's small enough to post.

The fairing is mainly to reduce the wind resistance so it doesn't help much with vertical rainfall. It should also have the added benefit of keeping the cyclist warm when the weather gets colder although my face and hands are outside the protection of the fairing. :( Something I can look forward too as winter approaches.

Not many hills here in Orlando. The one overpass I go over is about it as far as hills are concerned. I've gone over the overpass as other cyclists are walking their bicycles. They just give me a mad look as I fly by them. I probably should look like I'm straining to get up the hill to make them feel better. :rolleyes:

I did end up using a chain lube and the noise on the videos has dropped dramatically. You can only hear the hub motor when I start moving from a standstill. I use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CK29EM/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00 and its made a huge difference in how smooth the chain is now.

I'll do my best to have some "before upgrades" photos and ride videos by this weekend.

Stay tuned...more to come. :thumb:

cool... nice.... looking forward to the vids and pics.. any chance of getting some pics of your current bike set up, especially close ups of how the motor is connected to your rear fork, and also is it possible to make some kind of diagram that shows all the screws and mounts in the correct order,that are used in the rear side..

on another note, can you help me in this issue,

my bike has absolutely no mounts to attach full length fenders, I can add clips on, but they are useless..

so how can I solve this problem with some creative thinking? any ideas, I am thinking that I would have to attach some kind of add on clamp or some bit of plastic on the frame and then attach the fender supports on to this?

thanks again

on another note, can you help me in this issue,

my bike has absolutely no mounts to attach full length fenders, I can add clips on, but they are useless..

so how can I solve this problem with some creative thinking? any ideas, I am thinking that I would have to attach some kind of add on clamp or some bit of plastic on the frame and then attach the fender supports on to this?


Once you have the rear bike rack on you will not have to worry about having a rear fender. The bike rack will act as your fender. The front fender on the other hand is harder to source. I don't have a good solution for you yet.

I use a rain jacket (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001M9J2OS/ref=wms_ohs_product) and rain pants (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00149JJPS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01) anytime it rains which thankfully has been seldom. This two items mitigate the likely hood that I'll get wet. The only problem is my shoes. I think wearing a closed toe sandals would help or even using SCUBA shoes would work. Of course, if you have clip pedals then your restricted to wearing certain shoes.

Here's one of the promised videos I said I would upload to YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ca9sRlqOok

Stay tuned...more to come. :thumb:

thats great.. looking for ward to lots more

ah its says the video is private ? cant watch it dude?