Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Suggestions for AA 3 or 3 cell NiMh 200+ Lumen over 18650 Li-ion?

I've been reading posts for a couple of days now, and am not seeing much for flashlight / headlights using NiMh AA cells. All my headlamps use AA's so I really want to stick with that format.

What is the advantage of the 18650 cells?

This will be my 1st foray into road bike (or any actually) night riding - the roads and paved trails are mostly unlit, with a nice variety of foxes and deer to avoid.

Looking for suggestions, threads, ect. to help refine my choices. Seems that 200 lumen is the minimum recommended here for this type of ride.

Also would really really like to keep cost down to $50 or less if possible.

Thanks!

Take a look at Shiningbeam's selection of AA lights (http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-By-Batteries-cln-AA/Categories).

18650 is like AA over dosing on steroid. It pack a lot more energy in a slightly larger package. This extra energy from 18650 allow for more ampacity deliver from the battery. Most 18650 can deliver 1.5 amp at 3.7 volt with ease. Better manufactor like the Panasonic cell easily handle over 2 amp load with less internal resistant than typical AA. That being said, the power from 18650 cell can allow flashlight manufactor to develope flashlight that is capable of producing 700+ lumens. Not only will you get more punch out of 18650 flashlight, but the battery is also rechargeable for many cycle. You will easily find fox and deer at a distant with most high power 18650 flashlight.

The downside of 18650 cell is that it is not for everyone. The disadvantage is that 18650 cell cannot be mishandle like AA cell. You need to take some care and precaution with 18650 cell. For a starter, never charge these cell unattended at home. Do not abuse them like dropping them or crushing the cell. The battery can causes fire when these warning are ignore. These incident are few and rare but it does happen. Personally, I myself own many 18650 cell and charged them countless time without ever having one issue. Stick with buying quality cell like AW, Redilast, Callie and you will be fine. Many cheaper brand like *.fire is OK and most likely safe but does not perform as good.

If you do venture into the world of 18650, you will find many flashlight that are rated over 200 lumens. Most peform at least 500 OTF when using the XML led. Being a newbie to 18650, you should stick to single cell 18650 flashlight. Do as much research with double 18650 cell flashlight before going that route. Shiningbeam has many flashlight using 18650 cell that are very good. Many are under the $50 price range, but that does not include the battery and charger. They also offer AA flashlight if you decide to stick with that route.

It is hard to go back to the AA route once you step up to the 18650 flashlight path. The first thing you will say is "wow" this light is very bright when you turn on a light utilizing 18650 cell. For some of us, it becomes a flashlight hobby after crossing that 18650 path.......(I'm one of those who had that 18650 flashlight addiction)

You get much longer run times and brighter lights with 18650 batteries. They are higher voltage than AA which gives you more light. They hold more energy which give you longer run times. You'll read lots of opinions here, but 200 lumens isn't much light. If you are going to ride at night a lot or for long rides I recommend 18650 and a $100 budget.

Shiningbeam brand lights are excellent. I recommend a P-Rocket XM-L (850 lumens) on the bar and a XP-G S-mini for the helmet. The Xtar WPII charger is $20 on fleabay. 4 batts will run you $25. You'll have enough light to ride on the darkest MUP. I really like the helmet light for looking along the sides of the MUP where the critters are always hiding.

Thank you both, err, all three, for the suggestion for Shiningbeam.

Can you tell me a little more of what to be aware of in a double 18650 cell flashlight? ("Being a newbie to 18650, you should stick to single cell 18650 flashlight. Do as much research with double 18650 cell flashlight before going that route.") btw: thanks for the caution. :-)

Thank you both, err, all three, for the suggestion for Shiningbeam.

Can you tell me a little more of what to be aware of in a double 18650 cell flashlight? ("Being a newbie to 18650, you should stick to single cell 18650 flashlight. Do as much research with double 18650 cell flashlight before going that route.") btw: thanks for the caution. :-)

When two cells are in series and one of the two cell have a different state of charge, one cell can overheat causing heat buildup or gas comming out of the vent hole on the positive side of the cell. Since those cell are in an enclosed container in the body of the flashlight, this may lead to high pressure build up inside the body of the flashlight leading to an explosion of the housing. This is rare but has happen to some member at Candle power forum. Note: this effect is not limited to just 2cell 18650, but it also occurs in 2 cell CR123 batteries.

It is important to periodically check the final charge voltage of the cell after fully charge. There can be a chance where one cell was charged to 4.2v while the second cell did not charge at all. If both of these unbalace state of charge cell were to be use together in a 2cell 18650 flashlight, unpleasant result may occur.

Know how well your charger are working and learn how to use a digital volt meter and you should be alright.

BTW one important note: when choosing 18650 cell, stay with the cell that are protected. These cell has a small PC board at the negative side of the battery to protect things like over charging, over discharge and shorts. Most cell are sold as protected cell.

The double 18650 lights are just too long for bike duty, IMHO. Bike flashlight photos (https://picasaweb.google.com/penguin/BikeFlashlights) show a older P7 light on the bike. They P7s are a bit smaller than the XM-L, but you get the idea of the approximate size. About 6" long, about 1.5" head diameter, 1" diameter body. That's for the bar. A light like that is too heavy for a helmet. I select helmet lights that are straight body, 1" diameter and 4" length. The S-Mini is actually smaller than almost all other lights I've seen. The "Lights under $50" thread has useful info in it, although some of it might be dated. No one buys P7s any more; XM-L is what people buy. It gives off a lot of light and the beam isn't too floody/wide (you want all those lumens you paid for lighting up the road where your bike is going to use). You also don't want a laser beam.

Ah. I forgot about Magicshines. Those can be purchased for under $50. They are hit or miss with quality and they have battery packs. I don't want battery packs and wires, so I stick with the flashlights. You can find cheaper lights at the chinese web sites, but those can be hit or miss. Shiningbeam doesn't sell the worst/cheapest and I think he probably tests them before sending them out. I see very few people who complain they received a total dud. I've bought several lights and the $2.99 flat shipping is very reasonable.

Hey Colleen - thanks for the warning about multi-cell 18650 lights - over at CPF I just picked up on a light that exploded. I had no idea of the hazards.

It is the current delivery capability of secondary cells like the 18650 that allow them to power the brighter LEDs. Primary alkaline cells have very high energy density but very low power density.

If I recall correctly, the break even point between Alkalines and NiMH (rechargeable AA's) is about 350ma; for a device that draws less than 350 milliamps (.35 amperes), a quality alkaline will last longer. Great for low-power (5mm) LED's and remote controls. For applications above 350ma, such as power LED flashlights, portable stereos, and the like, NiMH's will last longer. For Li-Ion cells like 18650's, this difference is even more pronounced. Some high-power XML flashlights, such as the Fenix TK21, have been known to overheat lithium primaries (CR123's) while happily taking 18650's. Most (reputable) 18650's are able to discharge at twice their rated A-h number. That is, a 2400mah battery can discharge safely at up to 5A (which can drive 2 or more XM-L lights to pretty high levels). The cheap 18650's sold on DX and similar websites of ill-repute are known to be refurbished laptop cells and other used products. You will likely not get good performance with those.
Also, Li-Ions can have much longer service lives than rechargeable AA's when frequently recharged; that is, if you only run them down for an hour or two (such as on one commute) and recharge them that night, you can get the equivalent of thousands of cycles, while NiMH's wear out almost regardless of how much they are discharged. Recharge early, recharge often (or, get a dynamo for everyday lighting)

I guess I'm convinced the power/weight of LiOn LED flashlights are best for my use - I'm thinking not much more than a 2 hour ride on any night, so now I'm leaning to a (ballpark) 400 lumen light. Seems that will run a couple of hours on a single battery right? So I carry a spare along with my regular headlamp. I want a multi-use light and also don't really want a large dedicated 12 volt system either. Cost of multiple or really high powered lights seem a little prohibitive for me, so it looks like I can still stay in the 50-plus range for a light, 2 batts, charger, and mount.

Does that sound about right?

What lights are you folks using that give a floody with hotspot and anything around 300 - 400 lumens or 2 hr run time? Shiningbeam has lots to choose from.

I use a Klarus ST-20 ($40) since I tend to favor AA cells and wanted something waterproof

have a look around here for light comparisons
http://fonarik.com/test/indexen.php?model=218&scene=1&mode=0

I use a Klarus ST-20 ($40) since I tend to favor AA cells and wanted something waterproof
have a look around here for light comparisons
http://fonarik.com/test/indexen.php?model=218&scene=1&mode=0

Thanks HK - I'll have a look!

If you ever get a XM-L T6 light you will never go back into the dark with the older LEDs.

^^^ This. And then read the thread in the commuting forum about the guy who took his new bike out for his first ride after dark. He had a light, but still managed to hit a large pot hole at 20 mph. He came off the bike and now he's off the the LBS to have his wheels looked at.

25 years ago I used a wonderlight - just imagine a very week 2aa maglite because that is what was available.. The fact that you can spend 40-50.00 and get a very bright light - 600+ lumens. There is no excuse for using an inferior light on the road.. Just ask yourself - Is my well being worth 50.00?

I prefer being able to see what is down the road as opposed to just being seen by cars..

I own a few Romisen G2 lights, various generations and I like them a lot. They're single AA light so don't expect extended life, but they're bright enough for most situations. They get brighter with each generation though. I used them on a bike too and they're bright enough to see the road in darkness. I like AAs because they're just more common.

Well, I think you got all the info on this, such as, 18650 is way over AA. Also, a light that holds two 18650, most likely would be too long. Whereas, the single 18650 flashlight, IMO, is about the right size. If you go that route, skip the cheap cells, and get some good ones. Your runtiimes will be longer. Only speaking for myself, I am moving up to 26650.. ;) The 18650 flashlights have been so good, they have me reaching for more. Trying to stay with the same form factor though.


Again, no mistake about it, 18650 is WAY over AA.. I was running a Planet Bike 2w Blaze. That is a AA light. It was better than my AAA lights, but can't touch my 18650 lights.

Here are some pictures of 18650 flashlights mounted on bikes. I always put pairs on my bikes. IMO, they look balanced, and if one goes, I got the other one, and then I could put one on blinky and the other one beam.


http://www.cehoward.net/ke5-663x.jpg

The one in the foreground is a 26650, which is the same length but a little fatter than the 18650.. I am moving in that direction.

http://www.cehoward.net/m1223.jpg

Here is the 26650 I ordered the other day. Shorter I think, but more powerful.

http://www.cehoward.net/torch3.jpg


I got a great compliment yesterday when I was leaving work at night. I had come to a stop and this person said "You sure enough will not get hit"!!! What he meant, and I have very well found out, I AM SEEN. IMO, these flashlight grab attention. If a person is talking on the phone, looking the other way, these lights draw attention like no tomorrow. This is not what nobody told me, this is what I have found out in the few short weeks I have been running these lights. No more taking my right away. ;)

I use a 123 tactical light from Four Sevens. It takes two rechargeable batteries and throws 360 lumens for over an hour. Light is mounted on a twofish mountm also from Four Sevens. You will need a charger. Light, two batteries and a charger will run about $100 but well worth the investment. I've since added another light for my MTB, additional batteries and single 123 Olight for my helmet. I like to see as well as be seen. Don't go cheap on the lights. It is easier to cry once instead of twice when you have to replace a cheap light.

Ya - found out the - expected - hard way about lack of light. We came in a little after dark Sunday and my 80 lumen headlamp was pretty scary. I didn't see the manhole cover-dent in time and jarred me pretty good. Didn't intend on being out after dark, but had the headlamp just in case.

I'm wary of the ulta-cheap imported deals for lack of consistent quality, so am still leaning towards Shiningbeam just because of the folks reputation here. He's got one XML - T6 @ 400 lumens.

cehoward - I've read your thread recently - and thanks for posting the great info. I started looking at the 26650 lights but am not finding as much comparative info and the price seems to be higher than the more common 18650, or is that just me?

What are the brand / model of the lights you are using so successfully? An opinion is worth a million advertisements.

Is the XML - T6 more efficient or is the real benefit of handling higher power?

I'm thinking that at 20+ ft/sec max, [flat out, downhill, tailwind :-) ] I don't need car headlights to see animals and potholes in plenty of time, so a 400 lumen floody and 400 lumen more focused would be plenty. I'm having trouble adjusting to the idea I can trust a $40 1500 lumen torch... all that power in such a cheap package.. but then I'm pretty old school.

addendum: looking for 2 hr run times at 400 lumen (ballpark), and still plan on carrying an extra battery.

RoadTired.... if you want a light for the "just in case I am riding after dark", get the S-Mini. It's light and small and has plenty of light. You won't mind carrying it with you. And the faster you go, the more light you need. You'll need 2000 lumens if you really want to go 30+ miles per hour (if that is what you consider downhill, flat out; I think you'd be crazy going that fast at night because of the dire consequences of crashing at that speed, but that's your decision).

Expensive lights have issues too. That's why I always recommend two lights for night riding. And yes, I carry an extra battery.

a1penguin you do have a good point. At 15 mph / 22 ft/sec I figure I'll get pretty worn out after an hour ride. And I sure don't want to smack something I because I didn't see it off to the side in time either - (deer wait to ambush moving vehicles. Revenge for November harvesting I guess) so without any experience I'm leaning to floody lights.

The S-Mini looks like a great light. I just can't find any comparative beam shots yet.

Ya - found out the - expected - hard way about lack of light. We came in a little after dark Sunday and my 80 lumen headlamp was pretty scary. I didn't see the manhole cover-dent in time and jarred me pretty good. Didn't intend on being out after dark, but had the headlamp just in case.

I'm wary of the ulta-cheap imported deals for lack of consistent quality, so am still leaning towards Shiningbeam just because of the folks reputation here. He's got one XML - T6 @ 400 lumens.

cehoward - I've read your thread recently - and thanks for posting the great info. I started looking at the 26650 lights but am not finding as much comparative info and the price seems to be higher than the more common 18650, or is that just me?

What are the brand / model of the lights you are using so successfully? An opinion is worth a million advertisements.

Is the XML - T6 more efficient or is the real benefit of handling higher power?

I'm thinking that at 20+ ft/sec max, [flat out, downhill, tailwind :-) ] I don't need car headlights to see animals and potholes in plenty of time, so a 400 lumen floody and 400 lumen more focused would be plenty. I'm having trouble adjusting to the idea I can trust a $40 1500 lumen torch... all that power in such a cheap package.. but then I'm pretty old school.

addendum: looking for 2 hr run times at 400 lumen (ballpark), and still plan on carrying an extra battery.

All the 18650 lights I have been running are winners in my book. Not only that, they are Chinese/HongKong copies or knock-offs. Howeve,r I am not paying an arm and leg for them. Also, so far, so good. No problems. I found out the biggest factor in high powered lights are the batteries you feed it..

My lights..

Keygos Ke-1=18650
Keygos Ke-5=18650
Ultrafire C8=18650
Keygos M12=26650
an XinTd copy=18650

And the last one in thepicture you see is a 26650. That only cost $25 with free shipping. ;)

In response to the OT, >200 lumens, AA powered, 2 hr run time, $120 - uses same battery holder as the 140 tail light:

http://store.dinottelighting.com/xml-1-aa-headlight-p182.aspx

When two cells are in series and one of the two cell have a different state of charge, one cell can overheat causing heat buildup or gas comming out of the vent hole on the positive side of the cell. Since those cell are in an enclosed container in the body of the flashlight, this may lead to high pressure build up inside the body of the flashlight leading to an explosion of the housing. This is rare but has happen to some member at Candle power forum. Note: this effect is not limited to just 2cell 18650, but it also occurs in 2 cell CR123 batteries.

It is important to periodically check the final charge voltage of the cell after fully charge. There can be a chance where one cell was charged to 4.2v while the second cell did not charge at all. If both of these unbalace state of charge cell were to be use together in a 2cell 18650 flashlight, unpleasant result may occur.

Know how well your charger are working and learn how to use a digital volt meter and you should be alright.

BTW one important note: when choosing 18650 cell, stay with the cell that are protected. These cell has a small PC board at the negative side of the battery to protect things like over charging, over discharge and shorts. Most cell are sold as protected cell.

Does this also apply to battery pack lights like the magic shine?

Does this also apply to battery pack lights like the magic shine?

The Magicshine pack has some difference in comparison to using two cell flashlight. When the two cell are being charge in a charger after removing them from a two cell flashlight, each are individually being charge. That being the case, the possibility of one cell having a different state of charge is greater than the Magicshine pack. Example being one bay of the chager is bad while the other bay is charging normally or accidently removing those cell from the charger when one cell is fully charge and the second one is not.

The magicshine pack consist of four batteries which are hook in a 2S2P configuration. When the charger is charging the pack, the two cell in series of each banks are being charge at the same time. When the charger finish charging, the state of charge of the two cell in series of each bank is closed to being equal. This lessen the chance of having a large differential voltage between the two cell that are hooked up in series. The two banks of cell are hook in parallel and the voltage between the two banks are the same. The chances of having battery vent during power up of the light head is lessen.

The area of concern in a 2S2P pack like the Magicshine is during charging if the cell become unbalance due to manufactor using unbalance cell. That is another different story where the cell can overheat during charging instead of initial power up of the light.

a1penguin you do have a good point. At 15 mph / 22 ft/sec I figure I'll get pretty worn out after an hour ride. And I sure don't want to smack something I because I didn't see it off to the side in time either - (deer wait to ambush moving vehicles. Revenge for November harvesting I guess) so without any experience I'm leaning to floody lights.

The S-Mini looks like a great light. I just can't find any comparative beam shots yet.

I had some beamshot from a while back.

All picture has the same exposure setting.
The control shot is here (http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l622/Colleenlc/misc%20beamshot/controlshot.jpg)
Shiningbeam S Mini XPG 350 lumens on High is here (http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l622/Colleenlc/misc%20beamshot/Smini.jpg)
Shiningbeam MG P Rocket XPG R5 450 lumens is here (http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l622/Colleenlc/misc%20beamshot/MGxpg.jpg)

Love the dinolighting lights, but they are out of my price range. Too many other interests to feed... :-)

Colleen thanks for the screen shots - answers a lot of questions. The S Mini looks like a fine EDC and bike light, though just on the edge of my high $ range. I *think* the MP P Rocket XML has a more floody beam than the XMP doesn't it? That is the other light I have been eyeing.

cehoward good info also. I was able to google the Keygos and came up with other threads and info you posted so thanks! Now you have me looking at the 26500? sized torches.

The Magicshine pack has some difference in comparison to using two cell flashlight. When the two cell are being charge in a charger after removing them from a two cell flashlight, each are individually being charge. That being the case, the possibility of one cell having a different state of charge is greater than the Magicshine pack. Example being one bay of the chager is bad while the other bay is charging normally or accidently removing those cell from the charger when one cell is fully charge and the second one is not.

The magicshine pack consist of four batteries which are hook in a 2S2P configuration. When the charger is charging the pack, the two cell in series of each banks are being charge at the same time. When the charger finish charging, the state of charge of the two cell in series of each bank is closed to being equal. This lessen the chance of having a large differential voltage between the two cell that are hooked up in series. The two banks of cell are hook in parallel and the voltage between the two banks are the same. The chances of having battery vent during power up of the light head is lessen.

The area of concern in a 2S2P pack like the Magicshine is during charging if the cell become unbalance due to manufactor using unbalance cell. That is another different story where the cell can overheat during charging instead of initial power up of the light.

Thanks for the information, think I might get a magic shine type light :)

Love the dinolighting lights, but they are out of my price range. Too many other interests to feed... :-)

Colleen thanks for the screen shots - answers a lot of questions. The S Mini looks like a fine EDC and bike light, though just on the edge of my high $ range. I *think* the MP P Rocket XML has a more floody beam than the XMP doesn't it? That is the other light I have been eyeing.

cehoward good info also. I was able to google the Keygos and came up with other threads and info you posted so thanks! Now you have me looking at the 26500? sized torches.

The Rocket with the XML will have more flood in comparison to the Rocket using the XPG. This is assuming both flashlight are using the same diameter and depth reflector and I do believe they are the same, just the Led is different. The XML Rocket will also be brighter in High mode since it can be driven harder than a XPG. The runtime will be less but you can use the medium mode and still get good runtime and enough lumens. That the nice thing of buying a light that has more lumens than what you only need.

cehoward good info also. I was able to google the Keygos and came up with other threads and info you posted so thanks! Now you have me looking at the 26500? sized torches.

:D :D :D

I just got my Chinese copies of Two Fish bicycle mounts. The real ones cost $7 each and the Chinese Knock offs cost $2.39 each go figure. The reason I am mentioning these mounts which came the other day, they are allowing me to easily mount that 26650 on my HELMET. Oh boy!! :D

Going to mount that Two Fish look alike on my beater bike, and a helmet and take some pictures. ;)

IMO, you can't go wrong as long as you got some lights that are 400+ lum.. Magicshine, Dino, NR, etc, are all good. I recommend what ever you run, run pairs up front, something on the helmet, and ample rear lights too.

Some pictures of those cheap Chinese copy mounts that work with the flashlights..;)

Amazon for $7.95

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uPcFE-o5L._SS400_.jpg

Dealextrem for $2.39 free shipping

http://www.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_31871_1.jpg (javascript:window.close();)

The reason I mention the mounts, because I want my flashlight mounted securely, and no un-sightly either. That is a bulky looking mount.

This mount, and I have others, seems to work not only on the bars, but on the helmet too. Also, the other mounts I have which are good, don't do too well with the fatter 26650 flashlight. Not so with this mount. Here are some pictures and another cheap mount too. The two fish copy is the best. I also mounted a 26650 flashlight on my beater bike to see how it fits and looks.. It's a winner.. ;)

Two fish copy on the left..

http://www.cehoward.net/mountd86.jpg

http://www.cehoward.net/mountd85.jpg


26650 on the bike.. Running a pair of these will be killer... ;)

http://www.cehoward.net/mountd93.jpg

http://www.cehoward.net/mountd95.jpg

Going to mount two 26650s on the beater bike and try to get some beam shots tonight, or at least some shot of the flood/beam.. ;)

You're outta control, man! :twitchy: But I am REALLY digging the red helmets with the lights! Time to rid myself of the boring gray helmet. I'll be looking forward to your beamshots.


Would you guesstimate the runtimes of the 26650 is double of a 18650, given the same ballpark light output?

That is the one thing pushing me to 26650, but darn it, the 500+ lumen P Rockets are calling just because of who is selling them.

You're outta control, man! :twitchy: But I am REALLY digging the red helmets with the lights! Time to rid myself of the boring gray helmet. I'll be looking forward to your beamshots.


Would you guesstimate the runtimes of the 26650 is double of a 18650, given the same ballpark light output?

That is the one thing pushing me to 26650, but darn it, the 500+ lumen P Rockets are calling just because of who is selling them.

RoadTired, this is big fun!! Also, I am finding out the flashlights are a hobby by itself, and steady suckin me in!! ;)

But, what really is getting my attention is the new founded super respect that other vehicles are giving me, since I started running these lights. I like it, and you can't blame me for wanting more!! :D

Yesterday, I am just out riding around the neighborhood, and part of my commute route at night and this happened. I am coming up on a green light, a car is in the ohter lane getting ready to make a left turn. I am a full HALF BLOCK AWAY! Do you know that car waited until I passed to make their turn!!!!! That is freakin unheard of to bicyclist. I am use to cars looking as if I wasn't there when making left turns, coming out driveways, any way my right-of-way is concerned, they had been taking it. Not now.. :)

I just outfitted my beater bike with two 26650 lights up front, got a super 18650 on my helmet. When I say super, it is one that is rated at 1600 lums (laughing). It is brighter than my other 18650 lights, and it cost a little more too. I threw a rear light on the beater, and sitting here counting the minutes until it gets dark. :D.. Going to used the camera, but would like to go about 4 blocks down where it is darker. I need the tripod and my dslr for that. Will post us some pics tonight providing it doesn't rain..

I ain't never growing up!! ;)

RoadTired, this is big fun!! Also, I am finding out the flashlights are a hobby by itself, and steady suckin me in!! ;)

Yep, another Flashaholic. ;-)

You gotta get someone to photo or video you from the front just at dusk so we can see what it really looks like.

It's been a dark cloudy day and I noticed the car headlights more than usual...and that reminded me my (former) motorcylce headlight was always on... I guess you and a lot of other bicyclists are one step ahead of the rest of us.

You're outta control, man! :twitchy: But I am REALLY digging the red helmets with the lights! Time to rid myself of the boring gray helmet. I'll be looking forward to your beamshots.


Would you guesstimate the runtimes of the 26650 is double of a 18650, given the same ballpark light output?

That is the one thing pushing me to 26650, but darn it, the 500+ lumen P Rockets are calling just because of who is selling them.

Most 26650 battery are rated about 4000 mah capacity. There are some you can find listed as 5000 mah but they were tested as being around 4000 mah. A good quality 18650 are about 2900 to 3100 mah. The runtime from a 26650 under theoretical guestimation should provide 1.3x more runtime under the same load. So if a certain flashlight can run 1hr with a 3000 mah 18650, then a similar light drawing the same load condition using 26650 battery will yield 1.33 hrs (about 1hr 20min). But here is a catch, if the current draw is high such as 2.5 amp to 3 amps, then the 26650 will provide the theoretical runtime while the 18650 will yield less than the theoretical runtime because of a larger Vdrop by the heavier load.

Well my beamshots went to h*ll.. :cry:

First off, my two Keygos 26650 batteries, were running down. That was a downer, so I stuck in two Hi Max 18650 cells with the liner..

Then as I always suspected, but others were telling me different, the zooming lights don't work out for me on the front. On my helmet they shine. On the front, they slide straight to a square beam. The upside, the light I had on my helmet shined good..

Here are the bad photos.. BTW, I can't work my Nikon D5100.. Not even a little bit.. :cry:

The beater bike decked out with two 26650 lights up front, and cheapo rear light in the back..

http://www.cehoward.net/mountd00.jpg

with two 18650 cell inside the 26650 flashlights.

http://www.cehoward.net/mountd09.jpg

The killer 18650 light I had on my helmet..

http://www.cehoward.net/mountd13.jpg

Good descriptive beamshots. Thanks. The pictures are fine. There supposed to look like night pictures. :-)

Why did the helmet light, upside down, work? I missed something. Sounds like fixed focus reflectors are probably going to have better light patterns?

Good descriptive beamshots. Thanks. The pictures are fine. There supposed to look like night pictures. :-)

Why did the helmet light, upside down, work? I missed something. Sounds like fixed focus reflectors are probably going to have better light patterns?

I canceled out on going to a darker place. I had too much stuff to shift around. So, I came to my old stomping grounds, on my street. ;) My neighbors already know I am not dealling with all the marbles, the last couple weeks confirmed it!! :D I am out in the middle of the street, with tripod/camera, bike stand, and bicycle, shining these super bright lights. Not only that, when I ride, and look around, that sucker on my helmet just tears into houses with its beam. I have to be more careful with that helmet light.

First off, my 26650 cells were weak, lights were dim. Okay, I snatched them out, put in liners and put in some 18650s. Still, IMO, the camera shot is not giving the full effect of the lights as I see them. Also, I think I needed to do a forward shot. Say, have the bike a half block away, and snap that picture. That will give an idea of what everybody else is seeing. When I took the shot of the helmet a light, I turned off the other lights, and just put the helmet on top of the other lights and turn it on.. It wasn't upside down, but as you noticed the reflector was dictating the beam. IMO, that 18650 light I had on my helmet was good, the beam was strong and bright. It was not as peircing as the 26650 zoomer that I had on the helmet, but still good. From what I am finding out, I might be ditching the 26650 zoomers, and going for the 26650 fixed beam type. I have one on the way now..

Still fooling with the mounts.. I haven't dropped a torch yet. but, last night on a short ride, I had to keep re-positioning the light. In summary, I am way ahead of where I use to be. Just sorting out which light/mount combo will work. One thing for sure, I need/want powerful lights if I am riding in the dark. When those cages pass me at 60 mph, I don't want to hear from anybody, "your lights are too bright".. IMO, they lucky I am not carry my 1911!! ;)

Will work on setting up my Nikon for video and catch me when I leave in the morning. If must say so myself, that is quite a sight!! :D :D :D

Great Pics..

Great Pics..

Thanks much. Still trying to sort out everything. I am getting close, I tell you that!! ;)
Also, as you already know, riding in the dark/night with proper lights, is super awesome!! ;)

Well my beamshots went to h*ll.. :cry:
"First...my two Keygos...were running down. That was a downer... " On my helmet they shine. The upside, the light I had on my helmet shined good..

I had to ready this all over again because I was sure you said "upside down" :innocent: sheesh. :D

I guess I'm convinced the power/weight of LiOn LED flashlights are best for my use - I'm thinking not much more than a 2 hour ride on any night, so now I'm leaning to a (ballpark) 400 lumen light. Seems that will run a couple of hours on a single battery right? So I carry a spare along with my regular headlamp. I want a multi-use light and also don't really want a large dedicated 12 volt system either. Cost of multiple or really high powered lights seem a little prohibitive for me, so it looks like I can still stay in the 50-plus range for a light, 2 batts, charger, and mount.

Does that sound about right?

What lights are you folks using that give a floody with hotspot and anything around 300 - 400 lumens or 2 hr run time? Shiningbeam has lots to choose from.

If you're lucky maybe. I've been getting less that 2 hours, maybe an hour and a half, on a single 18650 light on maximum brightness. Mine are the cheap ones from DX so higher quality batteries may do better.

The best 18650:

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S009747

http://www.intl-outdoor.com/panasonic-ncr18650a-3100mah-liion-battery-p-213.html

http://www.intl-outdoor.com/panasonic-ncr18650a-3100mah-protected-batteryone-p-333.html

I had to ready this all over again because I was sure you said "upside down" :innocent: sheesh. :D

No problem, I am a hyper-typer and a hyper-talker!! :D I just sold the two 26650s (Keygos M12a), and purchased two Keygos M10, which is the same 26650, but fixed beam, no zoom.

On the crappy cells. Well I found that out quickly..Right now on my 18650 lights, I am running Hi Max 2600s. They have been better runtimes than the crappy ones..

We will be waiting for more of your excellent :thumb: beamshots and runtime compared to your 18650 fixed lights. :D

I would guess a "cool" 18650-based bike light system would use a torch with a bigger reflector, maybe 40-50mm - and two-cell tube for the handlebar and a "mini-type" torch with 20-25mm reflector and single cell body for the helmet. It helps if the multi-cell torch has a variable power button switch.

My reasoning is that the helmet mounted torch can go ahead and be a spot - but the handlebar mounted torch will provide at least some flood if it uses a big reflector. And then of course if you have a two or four cell charger you can change out as needed for both torches. I would imagine you can do the whole deal now for around $100 - and go with with brand name products for $140 or so.......

I consider a two cell flashlight too long for my road bike. Most people recommend a floodier bar light (which will have a 50mm head) and a narrower beam helmet light which is lighter.

I'm starting to look seriously at a Shadow JM07 26650 format. What really sold me were the beamshots. Great flood and wide hotspot. Staying with single-cell Li-Ion for simplicity/safety and size. Looks like Intl-Outdoor has all the components so I can order from just 1 or 2 places - including the 18650 batteries mentioned by 10 Wheels!

Great review here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/9026

And beamshots here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/7138

Have to add to the "NEED lights" pile. A month back when I'd just pulled my old bike out from storage over the winter I went out predawn with an old tactical light I have. Sadly said light pulls so much power out the batteries that they last about 20 minutes. Thus I ended up coming home in the dark and not noticing the lip between the pedestrian and the bike side of the trail. Its a good thing it was cold and I was wearing gloves and long pants because if I had not there would have been plenty of blood. I don't go anywhere without a light clipped to the bar now. Crashing in the dark is no fun.