General Cycling Discussion - How they see us

This is an article about a guy who is going to set a record for biking across the US--and doing it for charity. But the reason I did not post it in the touring forum is because of the idiot who wrote it. Read the first few paragraphs and you will see. This writer reminds me of a fellow student who began to make fun of cyclists and their clothing in a conversation with me the other day, and then remembered who she was talking to. Writing for the newspaper that sponsers RAGBRAI I would expect more from this guy...

http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c5917686/18025752.html

Originally posted by Oxymoron
This is an article about a guy who is going to set a record for biking across the US--and doing it for charity. But the reason I did not post it in the touring forum is because of the idiot who wrote it. Read the first few paragraphs and you will see. This writer reminds me of a fellow student who began to make fun of cyclists and their clothing in a conversation with me the other day, and then remembered who she was talking to. Writing for the newspaper that sponsers RAGBRAI I would expect more from this guy...



http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c5917686/18025752.html

You've just got to learn to get a smile out of it; besides, he's just jealous becuase women won't check out his butt when he's in those "stretchy shorts". ;)

Right on Mat,
That guy's opinion on cycling means squat to me.

Dave

Does the paper have a feedback / reader letters section? You could use this opertunity to promote cycling for day to day use. Im sure a few members here wouldnt mind writing in aswell! :)

BTW, I think the guy is crazy aswell, riding for 21hrs a day, coast to coast in 9 days? Yikes! :eek:

He sounds like a total jerk to me.
Probably drives a Ford "Behemoth". :crash:

I didn't mean to sound bitter by calling the author an idiot--I should of said "doofus" because I was chuckling when I read it.

Being the biggest paper in the state there is a large opinion page with many letters, but I don't know if its worth writing in about--people will always think men in skin tight shorts look funny. ;) Of course it is important to dispel public perceptions of biking as silly and pointless, and even bothersome, so maybe I should.

This guy's bike ride is outragiously tortuous, but it is for charity!

Originally posted by Joe Gardner
BTW, I think the guy is crazy as well, riding for 21hrs a day, coast to coast in 9 days?

That's a pretty standard RAAM itinerary. One of our San Diego County Bicycle Coalition members, "Plutonium" Pete Pensyres, did that in 1984, but I think he slept 1.5 hours/night instead of 3.


If I recall correctly, Craig Breedlove held the automotive world land speed record. 406.6 mph, in the 1960s. Are these guys related?

After reading half way through, I couldn't hold back from emailing the guy. Here is what I wrote to him:

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Dear Mr. Carlson

Hmmm, nice article, I especially liked the first few lines:

“This need some people have to get on a bicycle and spend hours going somewhere - anywhere - doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
But hey, it's none of my business if a fellow wants to put on a pair of stretchy shorts, ride all day in a big circle, and end up back where he started.”

Well, I would like to ask you a similar question.

What is this need that some people like you have to sit down and write a completely uneducated article about a topic they have less awareness of than even their own incompetent writing skills?
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

But hey, it’s none of my business if a fellow wants to make an idiot out of himself on on-line publication… and a very bad one at that.

Best regards,

Amir R. Pakdel

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When i enter work after a commute, several have remarked about the silly clothes cyclists wear. Usually before getting to work I put on soccer shorts over my cycling shorts. Helps cut down on comments.
One way I squelched their lack of understanding of chamois, shorts, etc. I commented... Think it wise i wear properly designed cycling clothes. After long rides my water blisters burst adjacent my hind quarters or something like that, I said.
I hated those who followed, and sat in the common site, work chair to sit on my puss. They never said anything else.

The author sounds like yet another one of those tubby, out of shape baby-boomers who can't understand why anyone would want to do ANY exercise, in fact why anyone would even want to get up out of their chair in front of the tv set!

This guys opinion seems to be the 'norm' from all the people I've talked to as sad as it seems.Most my friends and relatives think I'm nuts riding a couple times a week let alone racing accross the US.Most don't think it's a good idea to ride until their heart or something else on them starts acting up.Then its "My doctor says I need to get some exercise...".Even my own teenage daughter slammed me when my wife asked if her friends thought I was cool(for a old man)."Oh ya" she snapped "They think it's real cool him riding that bike all around!"Oh well,they don't know what their missing:D ...Hilly

Originally posted by hilly100man
This guys opinion seems to be the 'norm' from all the people I've talked to as sad as it seems.Most my friends and relatives think I'm nuts riding a couple times a week let alone racing accross the US.Most don't think it's a good idea to ride until their heart or something else on them starts acting up.Then its "My doctor says I need to get some exercise...".Even my own teenage daughter slammed me when my wife asked if her friends thought I was cool(for a old man)."Oh ya" she snapped "They think it's real cool him riding that bike all around!"Oh well,they don't know what their missing:D ...Hilly

I can't really grin about that; your teenage daughter is just shy of "my generation" (I'm 21), and that's really what a lot of people think. My friends aren't as judgemental (if they were, they wouldn't be my friends), but I eat a lot of crap from people my age for cycling; and I'm doubly irritated that I've not met one cyclist in my age-range in the area.

Older folks are quite a bit nicer about it, for the most part; treating my major hobby as exactly that -- a hobby; not something that turns me into a three-headed, slime-covered alien monster...

I find that I get the most positive response when Im riding around town from kids. They always seem to wave at me and say hi in a way they never do when Im walking or driving.
Sometime around 13/14 they turn into morose teenagers and develope "attitude". Its downhill from them on for most of them.

you know I really don't care what anyone thinks of me when I ride to work and college with my bike. In fact I kinda enjoy the "you're insane" looks :lol:

for some reason a large percentage of the general population (in the US) has dedided that exercise is bad for them. and so you get cosmetic surgery to remove fat, wonder drugs to lose weight, and devices that use eletrodes to exercise your muscles for you. It is from this group of people that you get perceptions of anyone who exercises as crazy, hence the introduction to the article listed above. (well that's my take on it anyways ;))

oh well :)

for some reason a large percentage of the general population (in the US) has dedided that exercise is bad for them. and so you get cosmetic surgery to remove fat, wonder drugs to lose weight, and devices that use eletrodes to exercise your muscles for you. It is from this group of people that you get perceptions of anyone who exercises as crazy, hence the introduction to the article listed above.

Well, and here I was thinking Canadians are a lot like Americans...

I have rarely ever come across that kind of attitude the time I have been in Canada (Vancouver). A large percentage of people have some sort of exercise in their daily lifestyle.

And while we do have the "free-time-must-be spend-in-front-of-the-tv" type, the ones I have met wish they could get motivated to get more healthy but just aren't willing to do much about it.

I don't think the article's intro was offensive or degrading to cyclists. I think it was just a tongue in cheek way to start his story, he was just trying to add a bit of humour. It takes a lot more than that, to offend me.

CHEERS.

Mark

Actually, although canadians don't have the same problems with obesity that americans do (largely due to diet ) there are plenty of slack, out of shape canadians. Kids especially- a lot of reports have come out lately that show kids are getting very little exercise, preferring instead to stay indoors and play video games and watch tv. ANd it's true- I see a lot of pasty out-of shape looking kids, especially teenagers and young adults. IN fact, it's gotten so serious that they're saying these kids are going to have serious health problems as they get older. But I have to say, we're still a bit better than in the U.S. I see chubby kids here, but I have never seen as many chubby kids as I've seen there. I was astonished at what I saw some of them eating.

And yet, people believe exercise is bad for you- no worse than that huge pile of fries!

I should mention that BC is known for being really outdoorsy- people are really into hiking, skiing, snowboarding and MTB out there. Quebecers too are also big on outdoor sports. However, in the recent poll of kids health, quebec had a really high rate of overweight kids- no doubt due to bad diet on the part of many quebecers. Francophone quebecers in particular are really big on sweets and junk food.

i agree with wabbit...

The Northwest US - Oregon and Washington - are also more outdoorsy and the attitude towards cyclists and sports enthusiasts is better - in the NW and western Canada when you say 'i like sports' it's actually possible someone will think you mean you DO sports, not just sit in front of the TV and watch baseball/basketball/football/auto racing all year...

sadly, the fat kids and obesity problem is not just limited to the US... the US-initiated auto/TV/video game culture is catching on around the world and almost every developed country in the world now has significant numbers of overweight kids - and dar more than just 10 to 20 years ago... UK, Greece, Italy, Czech Republic are all really bad, but there are problems in Scandinavia, Germany, Italy and even France where people tend to eat less or more healthy foods...

and yes, there are predictions of major health problems in the future due to overwieght and lack of excercise... from the US government there have already been a number of reports and funding to help reduce obesity in kids and encourage exercise (i think the surgeon general made some kind of a statement, but i can't remember if it was Clinton or Bush era) --- and in countries with public health care (pretty much every developed country except the US) health costs will become a huge issue...

hey, not that i like all the numbers attached to personal choices with insurance, but maybe we're only a few years away from getting a health insurance discount because we cycle and are not overweight... no wait, the insurance companies will still say cycling is unsafe since you have to leave the protection of your house or a metal cage...

I don't think the only problems here are food and TV.

These days, parents seem terrified to let their kids out of their sight. Too many disappearing kids and other dangers. I know when I was a kid, my mother would often give my brother and me 25 cents apiece to bicycle to town (6 miles) on the highway to get her a newspaper (and us some Star Wars bubblegum cards!) The real motive was to get us out of the house so she could enjoy some peace and quiet, of course. Great for everyone involved. :p

But any parent who did that today would probably be sent to prison for abuse and neglect, if anything happened to the kids!! And something would be far more likely to happen to them, too, these days. Kids are not at all encouraged to go exploring and adventuring any more--even kids sports must be regulated and overseen by adults.

Why the indoor sofa kid culture? Because there's so little they are free and safe to do outdoors, sadly.

I'm with mark, i didn't really see anything particularly wrong with the article, he just simply tossed in an attempt to be humorous way of saying he doesn't understand our desire and found it to be odd. I dont feel like he was trying to insult us or anything just finds us bizaar. But then again i'm not offended easy and i'm blunt and like to start a little controversy from time to time.

Inkwolf, you've got a real point there- I've often observed the same thing. I notice that kids just don't seem to go outside and play anymore. It was the same when we were kids- we'd disappear for HOURS all day and come back in time for dinner. And no one knew what we were doing or worried. But a woman I used to know at school who has two school aged kids, told me she doesn't even let her kids walk to school alone because she's afraid of kidnapping. And yet, they live in a nice neighborhood where there is hardly any ever crime. Her husband is a paranoid loser and she's bought into it, but I told her she was being overly paranoid. I mentioned that we never had to worry about that when we walked to school and she said, "Yes but it's different now." The only thing different, I think, is us- parents today are totally overprotective and totally overindulgent. I see other kids like this- they don't even go out on their bikes without their parents, they practically wear body armour to play outside, etc. Their parents are so afraid to let them do anything they'd rather have them in the house watching tv. It's funny when you think that parents are afraid to let their kids do stuff like snowboarding or mountain biking or freeriding because it's dangerous- well, it's nowhere near as dangerous as letting your kids get obese!

I think there is the point made that (in the US at least) there has been a lot of violence at schools in the last ten years, (most recently this occured in Germany) this might also feed the idea that the outside world is dangerous! :eek:

Valid points all around. I'm with cyclezealot on the funny looks @ work. As for children's safety, I am totally for that. Just to be a good role model for the one nephew (5yrsold) that is riding now, I wear my full face helmet, shin\knee gaurds, elbow gaurds, gloves. This way he gets the feeling of safety not looking stupid. Parents ( here in Texas) are not like they used to be. I see kids out on their own too much. It is when one gets hurt that uproar happens. And this is where I feel something is happening. I have know people in the news "machine", AT least on TV their modivation was ratings. One way to better ratings is to stir the emotions. It seems as though the author of that little article has done a good job of that since he was talking of an man riding a bike, and now we are on kids.

I have some friends that have been to the USA and Canada for holidays recently and they both commented how BIG some people are. My friend Conrad who is considered large and obese in Australia said he could actually buy clothes in Canada, he had no problems finding huge clothes, he said there were sizes that were too big for him. He ordered a pancake and bacon breakfast and he was amazed he couldn't finish it. This is the sort of guy that usually eats everyone's left-overs and he could get through breakfast, it was that huge.

The other friend has just returned from a trip and mentioned how many obese people she saw. She said they were everywhere.:(

Is TV the cause for so much inactivity? There was a story on a current affair, about a family that had 9 TV's in their house. The article was to see how this family could survive for a week without any TV's. Dad actually had to play with his kids, they were delighted. By the end of the week though Dad was going crazy, he needed his TV. Interestingly, one of the girls thought is was better as she could concentrate on her homework without the constant distraction.

CHEERS.

Mark

Dutchy,

well, i can't say that i understand why b/c i'm a sports and exercise freak (hit 2600km since Jan 15!) and if had more than 20% body fat i'd freak out... but i have been an avid observer and reader of research about obesity in the US in particular... so i'll try and describe how i see it...

the US (and Canada) have tons of overweight people and it's now socially acceptable and 'normal' to be significantly overweight - you can buy clothes, find huge food portions, etc. - and you don't get the really strange stares from people you might have gotten 30 years ago or still get in Europe on Asia (in general tolerance is a good thing, but here i'm not sure)... and yes, in restaraunts meal portions are bigger - huge - not sure why, maybe there's the idea that only poor people who can't afford to would want to not have extra food left over... or just the simple idea that you should get more because more is always better - a big mareketing/overconsumption problem in general in the US for everything from huge cars and SUVs to huge meals...

so how/why did so many get fat? well, basically the US is a 100% car culture where everything is based on convenience - get out of bed, eat breakfast, walk to garage, drive to Starbucks, drive to work, walk a few feet to the office, take elevator, sit in desk chair, walk to parking lot, drive to lunch,... drive home, watch TV, drive to mall, drive to drive-thru drug store, etc... so you eat as much or more food than you would for a 'normal' lifestyle 30-50 years ago and then do absolutely no exercise. after a while the people get so fat that their joints and bones can no longer support their bodies and they are not ABLE to walk more than a few 100 meters much less ride a bike or do sports... then when a person so overweight cannot really do exercise tries to loose weight it usually doesn't work --- it's not easy when you've already got soo much fat and are used to eating soo much and doing no exercise --- then come more health problems...

OK, there are tons of factors behind this but the general problem is that people eat too much and too high fat foods and get almost 0 exercise.

from my perspective, the US has a different distribution of fat/average/sporty people::
* about 10-15% are super healthy and fit -- don't smoke, drinke little or no alcohol, eat really well and exercise a lot and do lots of sports, often competitively
* about 20-25% are 'normal' meaning they eat OK, maybe smoke or drink, and exercise for fun
* about 70-80% are sedentary, overweight... and get no exercise - going up one flight of stair brings exhaustion

Europe is more like 5-10%, 80-85%, 5-15%
Asia 5%, 85-90%, 5-10%
i was only in Australia for 2 weeks, but i would say it's probably more like Europe

and yes, every time i fly back from Europe to the US i am amazed at how huge and fat the Americans are --- when you see someone sooo huge in Germany, 95% they are American or maybe British...

anyway, i've had many a debate about the US/European fat difference and a friend of mine believes it's more the fatty foods in the US and i believe it's more inactivity - but we both agree it's the combination

but in general it seems to be getting worse everywhere... although people have at least begun to take notice that it's bad for your health

yes, i agree that the parent's perception of child safety is way overdone in the US...

but i wonder how much is true 'danger' and how much is just perception from media and all the news stories about kidnapping and child molesters, etc. ??

i mean i believe similar stuff used to happen too it was just that we didn't have a huge media engine with cameras and microphones and millions of advertising dollars to 'sell' it to the public.

yes, the world is inherently full of danger, and yes there are some more disturbing kinds of new danger like the school shooting phenomenom which is now spreading outside the US (14 teachers and 1 student killed in a German 'high school' last week by a student) but i think the biggest dangers are still those that parent's can't or don't do much about --- automobiles, basic accidents, etc.

i'm not yet a parent, but despite all that you hear about kidnapping and whatever, i honestly don't know anyone whose kids were kipnapped or molested or killed by crazed lunatics or whatever (yes, i do know many teenage and 20s women who were raped...) but i do know of kids that have died in car accidents.

is the world really less safe now than it was 20 or 50 or 100 years ago? 100 years ago you had all kinds of dangers and risks that we have virtually eliminated today (medical, unsafe equipment, etc) but because we apply the same danger avoidance principle we freak out about the danger that we cannot control...

as i see it, other than teaching you child some basic stuff like don't take a ride with a stranger or only trust adults you know, i think about the biggest statistical danger to your child is driving him/her around in a car...
so is the "don't let your kid out of your sight" mentality really justified? or even a little helpful?

i'm sure i'll have to decide these things in great detail some day when i have kids, but for those of you who do have kids, how do you handle this and why?

Originally posted by MichaelW
Sometime around 13/14 they turn into morose teenagers and develope "attitude". Its downhill from then on for most of them.

I think some of the Downhillers in the forums would have something to say about that Michael! :D

Rich

Sounds like he I just a little unsure of his own significance and he must now make fun of some one that has figured out what they want to do with some of there life.

All I can say to this guy is that he says all this just out of pure ignorance. I don't make fun of runners because they run in a 1/3 mile oval and " go nowhere

Heheh one thing I know is this guy is just dumb and cant appreciate a good thing when he sees it (both riding and what this guy is doing for not him self but others)

Originally posted by Dutchy
I don't think the article's intro was offensive or degrading to cyclists. I think it was just a tongue in cheek way to start his story, he was just trying to add a bit of humour. It takes a lot more than that, to offend me.

CHEERS.

Mark

I agree with Mark. The guy was trying to be light and goofy, and while the bit wasn't the most stunning piece of writing I've seen, it's not that different from tons of light news pieces I see. It's quite similar to those little human interest pieces that you frequently see on local tv news programs, usually done by some guy who fancies himself a storyteller and humorist. The stories usually involve 4 year old children, cute but spunky old people, or likeable eccentrics. I think the guy was trying to do a "likeable eccentric" piece.

It's a pretty common device to start off the piece by trying to play up the "craziness" of the likeable eccentric's behaviour, esp. by emphasizing how much you, as the observer, really don't get it (gives you the opportunity to to end or introduce the piece with some variation of "ah well. To each his own...")

I think many times when people comment on some aspect of your behaviour that strikes them as being a little nutty or eccentric or crazy to them, they don't necessarily mean it to be a put-down. In fact, at least in my world, such comments are frequently made quite affectionately, and are generally taken as such. I make fun of the people I love most all the time, and they make fun of me -- it's part of how we get along, and often it's a source of great joy.

Think of it this way: people say these things because they notice you're different. They notice your individuality, your whackiness, your uniqueness, your difference from them, and they're acknowledging it. Some people have more finesse than others when trying to say these things; they come across as funny and charming while a few unfortunate others come across as boors. But actually, I don't think the writer came across as a boor; it was more like some of us took offense to the intimation that maybe cyclists might be a bit...uh...different. That's bad?

Cathy

Confession time. Sometimes when I am home on a weekday I will watch a bit of midday TV during lunch and always end up on Oprah. The sad part is that this show and many other shows (rikki lake) are marketed at women and are advocating being obese. Some of the shows have themes like : I am fat and overweight but at least I'm happy!

The entire show is based on praising obese people for being happy and not worrying about their body image etc.

What these shows don't mention is, that if they don't loose some significant weight they will probably be dead at 45 due to their excessive weight. Not to mention the burden on the health system having to look after them. It is just wrong. I don't advocate that people should be waif like, but they should get off their buts and make an effort to reduce their weight. It's for their own health and wellbeing to do so.

At the beginning of 2001 my wife was feeling very depressed as her weight had increased, and her twin sister was about 20kg/44pounds lighter. So she decided to do something about it, and now she is happier, can buy clothes that look good, exercise's 5x per week and has lost 15gk/33pounds. I gave her plenty of support and helped with the exercise but she did it on her own, I never asked her to loose the weight, it was her decision and I am very proud of her.:) :)

CHEERS.

Mark

I don't think that people should be made to feel worthless because they aren't a skinny mini- women in particular are vulnerable to this. However, I worry about "fat acceptance" because it doesn't always seem to mean, "I'm chubby and I accept it." It often seems to mean, "I'm really fat, accept me for who I am, and I don't have to exercise or live a healthy life." We all have to accept there are different body types, however, it doesn't mean you can't be healthy. In fact, a recent study showed that obesity can cause even more health problems than smoking does (except lung cancer) and can cost even more than smoking in terms of health care. It causes heart disease, stroke, diabetes, hypertension, etc. And yet, while we are making smoking more and more of a health issue, we're making it easier for people to be obese, or just treating it like it's a cosmetic, lifestyle thing rather than a health issue.

Originally posted by Dutchy
Confession time. Sometimes when I am home on a weekday I will watch a bit of midday TV during lunch and always end up on Oprah. The sad part is that this show and many other shows (rikki lake) are marketed at women and are advocating being obese. Some of the shows have themes like : I am fat and overweight but at least I'm happy!

Funny you should mention that. My friend made the exact same comment while we were drinking beers and playing Trivial Pursuit. (Why are you looking at me like that? What do YOU do when you aren't biking?) He expressed it in the voice of Bill Clinton, and said something to the effect of, "That Oprah, she's a fat woman, and she encourages others to do so." We all laughed at the time, but it did get me thinking about what it means to accept how one looks.

I think part of the problems is the whole mix-up in our society about size and health. I've met some very healthy plus-sized people, and I've met some unhealthy people of more moderate proportions. We need to encourage people to be healthy, and I think that starts with teaching kids how to be healthy. Home-Ec classes (or Family Sciences, or whatever they are calling it this week) are a good place to do this, as are phys-ed classes. Either one of these classes, if well designed, can start a child on a life-long road of health. But most of them these days seem to focus on other things. And so people (especially young people) get their ideas of health from magazines and TV.

To be honest, if somebody wants to eat bon-bons all day and believes that s/he is happy, I will not argue with that person. I might try to present an alternative lifestyle, but the choice is their's.

andy

Originally posted by nathank
is the world really less safe now than it was 20 or 50 or 100 years ago? 100 years ago you had all kinds of dangers and risks that we have virtually eliminated today (medical, unsafe equipment, etc) but because we apply the same danger avoidance principle we freak out about the danger that we cannot control...

as i see it, other than teaching you child some basic stuff like don't take a ride with a stranger or only trust adults you know, i think about the biggest statistical danger to your child is driving him/her around in a car...
so is the "don't let your kid out of your sight" mentality really justified? or even a little helpful?

I personally feel that most of us would know nothing about all of the "danger" in the world if not for the news media. It (civilization) is no worse than it ever was but now we are all afraid to let our kids from our sight, including myself, due to the crap that is thrown at us day-in and day-out through the news or other shows on TV/radio. There has always been the same degenerate freaks throughout history but was not as publicized every day. All one sees in the news is ****, murder, kidnapping, ****, fire, accidents, double murder, mass murder ... then the weather ... then more of the crap. I try not catch too much "news".
:beer:

Actually, I am sure the world was probably even MORE dangerous for children years ago. How about before child labor laws- children worked in dangerous jobs like mining or in factories? think life was simpler in the days of little house in the prairie? Children died of typhus, diphtheria, typhoid, etc. There were no smoke alarms, no fire hydrants, no medicine- children died in fires, got lost in the woods, run over by trains- not to mention the teenagers who died in wars. There were no laws to protect children, no laws to make sure they attended schools. There was a time before social welfare and child services, when children were abandoned, abused, when 13 year olds died in childbirth. Chlidren lived in crowded, dangerous tenements and died by the scores of things like flu and colds. The reason we think that things are so much more dangerous now is because we know more about what's going on now- and most people are totally ignorant about things that happened 40 years ago, let alone 100 or 200 years ago.