Bicycle Mechanics - Dreaming of Total Overhaul of Bike

Basically, I would like my bike taken completely apart, cleaned, put back together, and re-tuned. I'm sure she really just needs some fine adjustments here and there by a keen mechanic, but I imagine it might be "good" for me and the bike to have it totally "re-built".

How much should I expect them to charge me for this service, assuming no parts are needed?

My bike is a Giant Escape 2, it's only a $400 bike, fast approaching 4k miles.

I can't afford a whole new bike right now.

But, I do plan on riding 300-400 miles a month if possible, so some investment is definitely needed, somehow.

If a full inside out cleaning/tuning can be had for around 100$, I'll be happy.

Is there a reputable mechanic on this forum in the NYC area who would want this kind of work?
If you are within range of my apartment, I would ride the bike to you, and wait/watch/help you with the project.

Any thoughts, or ideas on this subject is appreciated, thanks.

http://times-up.org/index.php?page=bike-co-op

I would recommend you try to learn some maintenance skills and do it yourself. The cost of what you are asking will most likely exceed the $400 purchase price.

In an expensive market like NYC, perhaps $250 to $300 plus any parts that end up showing wear/need of replacement. Here in Hooterville, shops charge about $65 an hour, I would expect NYC to be more. A three hour job at least, probably more.

Paying someone retail $$ to clean your bike, I could not do it.

I can't imagine what you describe costing $100. I would not do it for that price, here in a low cost area.

http://times-up.org/index.php?page=bike-co-op

I would recommend you try to learn some maintenance skills and do it yourself. The cost of what you are asking will most likely exceed the $400 purchase price.

That's what I was afraid of....

That's a very helpful link, thank you.

$400 for a overhaul? I have to hang out a shingle.

Here in DC area a complete overhaul runs about 250, including new cables and housing.

$400 for a overhaul? I have to hang out a shingle.
This sounds more like the OP is describing a frame-up rebuild with all bearings and components disassembled, cleaned, relubed and reassembled. I think $400 is high but $100 won't touch it either. Some time on the Park Tools web site tutorials, Sheldon Brown articles and that same $100 invested in a decent repair book and some basic bike tools would be time and money better spent.

I'd probably do it for $100 plus parts, but to be honest I would not put the kind of care into it as I would my own bike. Chances are it would never get down to the very bare frame like you're talking about...

If you want this done right, I suggest you learn to do it yourself. 4,000 miles isn't that much. Bottom bracket is sealed so no maintenance there. All it probably needs is the hubs and headset re-packed and a good chain/sprocket cleaning and new cables. For $100 you could probably buy all the tools and parts you need and do everything yourself.

There is a reality out there that we have to face though that some poeple just do not want to do their own wrenching for various reasons like not enough time or space to do it or just being an admitted "klutz" with mechanical things. What makes this important is the cost of components and parts that can get damaged beyond repair if one runs into "trouble" while trying to learn on the fly with doing a bicycle overhaul. Specially these days when an errant wrench can easily put a bad dent or hole on an aluminum or CF frame and trash it for good.
Yes, when bikes were mostly tough steel and parts were more forgiving tolerance-wise, it would be good to persuade people towards doing it themselves, but when bikes and their parts today cost so much, there's just a lot to lose if a newbe wrencher botches the job.
As for the OP, it really depends on whether he can afford the risk of possibly screwing up with his not so expensive bike to make a final decision whether to tackle the overhaul himself, but for bikes costing $5K - $7K and above, which is not so unusual to see in bike shops today, I'd let the mechanics at the shop deal with it mostly if I'm not so mechanically inclined.

Chombi

This sounds more like the OP is describing a frame-up rebuild with all bearings and components disassembled, cleaned, relubed and reassembled. I think $400 is high but $100 won't touch it either. Some time on the Park Tools web site tutorials, Sheldon Brown articles and that same $100 invested in a decent repair book and some basic bike tools would be time and money better spent.

I've been tied to my LBS for bike maintenance for a while now.

I'm psyching myself into learning more, and I think a workshop might be a good start.

Thanks for the input. I'm trying to stick with this bike for a long time as I think it suits my needs, and body type well.

At the REI here they list that as $150-$180 Labor only

..... but for bikes costing $5K - $7K and above, which is not so unusual to see in bike shops today, I'd let the mechanics at the shop deal with it mostly if I'm not so mechanically inclined.
I agree. For a rider who can spend that kind of money on a bike and is either not expert enough or doesn't have the time, a couple of hundred dollars for a complete overhaul won't seem like much. For a rider for whom a $400 bike is a bit of a financial stretch, paying 50% of the bike's new cost for an overhaul will, correctly, seem like a fortune.

As you noted, that level of bike will have either a strong steel or sturdy aluminum frame and relatively simple components so learning to work on it isn't a big liability and not much can be done to harm it that isn't reversible.

BTW, to the OP: is there a bike co-op or bike club in your area that you can ask for guidance? Many co-ops have loaner tools and on-site help at little to no cost.

What does REI pay their mechanics? Back when I was working in a shop near Boston we charged $100 for a overhaul plus parts. if you worked hard at you could do it in about 2 hours or so.

Bridgenottunnel; You really need to look for a COOP to learn to work on your bike. do it a bit at a time and learn as you go.

Bridgenottunnel; You really need to look for a COOP to learn to work on your bike. do it a bit at a time and learn as you go.

+ jillions.

http://vimeo.com/showlove/718cyclery
http://www.718c.com/what-we-do/service-pricing/

I'm pretty sure the owner will let you watch the entire overhaul--I asked If he'd let me
do the work while at the shop (his tools and staff) and he said--no problem.

Last bike this shop did--$140 and that included new hoods..chain..and installation of new derailleur.

If you're going to have this done by a shop in NYC the two I'd recommend most for the job are Bicycle Habitat on Lafayette street and Ifixbyks (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=Ifixbyx,+West+37th+Street,+New+York,+NY,+United+States&hl=en&cid=413367813680845631)
on 37th street. Ifixbyks is a repair only shop on a second floor so his rent is lower than the typical shop, and the owner is the wrench and more likely to give you better value for a job like that. There's also a good small shop, Bike Works, near the Williamsburg bridge. It may not look special, but the owner and mechanic is skilled and caring, and most likely to take on a job like this at an affordable price.

For the future, the time to do this kind of work is in the winter (if we have one) when shops are slow and begging for work.

What does REI pay their mechanics? Back when I was working in a shop near Boston we charged $100 for a overhaul plus parts. if you worked hard at you could do it in about 2 hours or so.

I basically budget an entire workday for an overhaul. We're talking exhaustive teardown, solvent-tanking, relubrication and reassembly of everything except the pedal axle bearings and brake pivots:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/mechBgon/Full_overhaul.jpg

At a shop rate of $60 per hour, even $300 would make it a "loss leader." And it's no fun either, try breathing through a solvent respirator and wearing heavy solvent-tank gloves for a few hours while bending over and scrubbing part after part. Thankfully, this is a rare operation these days.

I think $250 - $300 would be very reasonable for a "complete" overhaul. I just bought a $100 vintage MTB Bridgestone off CL. Not expensive. But I stripped the frame naked, and put in new BB, new crank, new cantilever brakes, new stem and handlebars, new headset, new saddle/seatpost/binder, overhauled even the thin copper bushing spacers in the Deore XT MT735 STI brake/shifters. Rebuilt wheels with new spokes and overhauled hubs. Took me an hour or two each evening for almost 5 days. And my hands, despite latex/nitrile gloves, still got grimey. I love to tinker with bikes. But still, 7.5 hrs is lots of labour. If you have the time, tools and gumption, yes, it's great to do. But a good shop charging a few hundred for labour is still a good deal if time is worth money to you. Unfortunately, relative to the value of the actual bike, it may not be money well spent. It might be more worthwhile if you had a custom fitted bike frame with very high value and highly functional components.

I think $250 - $300 would be very reasonable for a "complete" overhaul. I just bought a $100 vintage MTB Bridgestone off CL. Not expensive. But I stripped the frame naked, and put in new BB, new crank, new cantilever brakes, new stem and handlebars, new headset, new saddle/seatpost/binder, overhauled even the thin copper bushing spacers in the Deore XT MT735 STI brake/shifters. Rebuilt wheels with new spokes and overhauled hubs. Took me an hour or two each evening for almost 5 days. And my hands, despite latex/nitrile gloves, still got grimey. I love to tinker with bikes. But still, 7.5 hrs is lots of labour. If you have the time, tools and gumption, yes, it's great to do. But a good shop charging a few hundred for labour is still a good deal if time is worth money to you. Unfortunately, relative to the value of the actual bike, it may not be money well spent. It might be more worthwhile if you had a custom fitted bike frame with very high value and highly functional components.

This is why flipping neglected bikes by a bike shop does not make sense. I have bought several project bikes from LBS for this reason. No way they could refurbish it and cover their costs and overhead.

And this is why buying from a reputable flipper can be a good deal. For about the cost of the service work alone, you can get a nice bike fully rehabbed. The trick is finding a flipper that does a thorough rehab, and not just a quick cosmetic clean up.

My LBS charges $150.00 plus parts. Includes BB, and Hub bearing OH.

Don't fix it if it aint broke...

My bike is a XX, it's only a $400 bike, fast approaching 4k miles.

not much in either category,, BB are cartridge sorts now, so that is a disposal replacement.

Hub bearings can be re-greased. factory is miserly on grease.

inspect cables and housing for wear, pull seat post and bar stem and grease those .
so they will not be stuck in the future.

ALL of the jobs you want to do can be broken down into capsule like sub projects and tackled one at a time and as a learning experience. If you have a little room to set aside for a work place YOU CAN DO THIS if you have the will and are not registered on the National Klutz Index.... :D

You'll likely spend around $100 on tools the first time. And a few more bucks for new cables and housings, new bearing balls (it's silly to re-use the old ones considering how cheaply you can buy them in bulk) along with greases, oils and cleaners and the trays to use for such things. But outside of the first time tool cost and maybe $20 for the new cables and housings and other bits the only thing you need is time.

I basically budget an entire workday for an overhaul. We're talking exhaustive teardown, solvent-tanking, relubrication and reassembly of everything except the pedal axle bearings and brake pivots.

Same here. I figure on about two long evenings.

Mech, that's a *very* nice bench you have. I am more space-challenged. When I do hub rebuilds, I pretty much am just sitting on the basement floor.

If you're looking after your bike in a small apartment where you have to worry about spilling solvent and getting your living space really dirty, keep in mind that it's not necessary to use any kind of liquid solvent or de-greaser to do the vast majority of bike maintenance. Elbow grease is your friend. Once you have things disassembled, a good stock of rags -- old cotton dress shirts ripped up are ideal -- and a few old tootbrushes are all you really need, maybe a small screwdriver for scraping caked-on chain dust out of derailleur pulley teeth. Even if you are actually taking cup-and-cone bearings apart, you don't need to degrease the races, just wipe them really clean with the dry rags. Throw the balls away and replace with new ones. Every now and then you might need a little rub with a rag that has been just spot-dampened -- not soaked -- in solvent to loosen some recalcitrant dirt.

The caveat here is that this "dry" method of cleaning is much easier to accomplish if you don't over-lubricate your bike in the first place.

The chain is the part that gets the most obviously dirty and it admittedly impossible to clean the parts that bear against each other with only a dry rag. But even here, a minimalist approach to lubrication will keep things cleaner longer. That's all I'm going to say because I don't want to start a another chain-care flame war. :D

I'm also in the "If it aint' broke, don't fix it" camp. Unless something is squeaking, creaking, rattling, juddering, or binding, and as long as the bike stops, steers, coasts, and shifts gears OK, you're probably not going to improve your happiness by taking it apart and re-building it.

If you're going to have this done by a shop in NYC the two I'd recommend most for the job are Bicycle Habitat on Lafayette street and Ifixbyks (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=Ifixbyx,+West+37th+Street,+New+York,+NY,+United+States&hl=en&cid=413367813680845631)
on 37th street. Ifixbyks is a repair only shop on a second floor so his rent is lower than the typical shop, and the owner is the wrench and more likely to give you better value for a job like that. There's also a good small shop, Bike Works, near the Williamsburg bridge. It may not look special, but the owner and mechanic is skilled and caring, and most likely to take on a job like this at an affordable price.

For the future, the time to do this kind of work is in the winter (if we have one) when shops are slow and begging for work.

I will call some of your suggestions to try to get an idea for a price.

I had a "tune-up" done by my LBS in the winter but I dreamed of something more extensive.

Excellent advice all around, guys.

Thank you.

I see the cost is between the 100-300$ range depending on market; I ride so much that the bike deserves the TLC, and budget is an issue.

Co-ops and workshops will be a good start for me, I cured a fair amount of my clumsiness through exposure in my teens and 20's.

Space is a premium in NYC of course. I have limited access to a hose in an alley, and I think the small fenced in area with a wooden bench next to my stoop, is big enough to work in. It's even possible I could get some garage time from my neighbor....

My roommate has some cheap tools, I don't think I have the allen key to loosen a crank arm though.

I've had a lot of work done on her, and it's probably time I learned to do my own. I've been taking better care of my bike in general, but recently have moved on to my 3rd left crank arm. It never felt right when they first put it on, and I believe they stripped it when I asked them to tighten it, as it pops, and slips when I ride.

Would someone care to list the bare essential contents for the, least messy, least technical, bike tear down tool kit?

Is wheel truing the final frontier?

Allen is the start then you need a crank-extractor.. it a buy tools needed to do the work,
and take the time needed to learn the skills,
or hire help from those who own them
and can do the work while you do what your job is, then pay them
to do theirs... situation. :innocent:

The first thing you should do is learn to diagnose problems with your bike.

The basics are quite simple, really...

Check your headset is tight enough by putting on your front brakes and rocking the bike back and forth, with one hand wrapped around the top of the head tube and stem. Check it's not too tight by holding the bike with the head tube vertical, and look for notchiness as you tilt the bike to turn the front end.

Check your BB is tight enough by trying to pull and push a crank arm laterally. Pull the chain off the rings and give the cranks a spin to make sure it's not too tight.

Check the BB/crank interface by using your hands to push down on both pedals, turn the cranks halfway and repeat. Check the pedals by giving them a wiggle and a spin.

Check your hubs by wiggling the rim from side to side, and remove the wheels to make sure they're not too tight by feeling for stiffness/notchiness. Quick-release hubs require a tiny amount of play which should disappear when clamped up.

And that's the simple stuff, easy. Tuning brakes is a bit more complicated, but basically involves the whole not too tight / not too loose thing caliper-wise (rarely required), plus ensuring pads are in good nick and correctly adjusted with a slight amount of toe-in, and making sure cables are sorted.

When it comes to cables, the housing should be cut to a length that minimises bends while allowing for full movement of the bars. The RD loop should be long enough to show a 2-3" radius. Housing needs to be in good condition with ends ground flat and ferruled, and inners need to be kink free. Stainless inners and compressionless shift cable housing (for indexed bikes) is highly recommended. Naturally, they should be clean and lubed.

Getting your shifting sorted is a bit more complicated again, but once you've got your head around the brakes it shouldn't be too hard to figure out the extra complications like limit screws and indexing.

It's all very doable, unless you're some kind of abject mechanical moron. Even straightening wheels isn't that hard if you figure out what you're supposed to be doing before attempting it.

Starter tool kit: set of allen keys, cone wrench, headset wrench if you have a threaded steerer, possibly spoke wrench. You may need a chain breaker if your chain requires replacement (some have special links that don't require a tool), and/or a crank extractor if your BB needs replacing.

Bare minimum: 4, 5, 6mm allen keys, 14/15mm cone wrench.

Other useful tools you may already have include one or two adjustable spanners, sidecutters, file or grinder. Hopefully you won't need the vise-grips.

Wow, Kimmo, thanks.

That's a lot to take in, and some of the terms, and even names of some of those tools, are completely new to me.

Exceptionally well written too Kimmo, though I'm not sure what the US equivalent of "notchiness" is.... can you describe this term?

I assume "in good nick" is a general term like, "in good order"?

I'm fairly positive my LBS did right by me with my brakes, and did "toe them in".

I feel like bicycle maintenance is somehow easier, and more difficult than I imagined all at once!

I greatly respect the science involved with the machine that is a bicycle, and I will seek help to learn hands-on/side by side as suggested by so many of you.

Tools and to some extent, parts, have different names depending on where you live; just do a google image search on any term you're not sure of.

As for notchiness, that's what happens when a bearing is too tight; it feels a bit like a modern digital volume control or jog dial or something. If allowed to persist, this state will result in the destruction of races by brinnelling, which is where you have permanent dents in the race. It's particularly important to look out for it in hubs, since the bearing cups are almost always integral to the hub and not replaceable.

Re unfamiliar colloquialisms, if urban dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/) is no help, there's always google or your own sense of context, which is correct about 'good nick'.


That's a lot to take in

Just be methodical, take it one step at a time, and before long you'll agree the basics are basic. Tuning the drivetrain can be trickier if you're unlucky, but usually shouldn't prove too difficult.

Building wheels is where it starts to get interesting, but again, it's usually no big deal once you have a bit of experience.

Once you go down this road, there's a very real chance you'll get hooked on the buzz of empowerment ; )